NOT SUGAR COAT IT!!!!

[Unicorn ♥✿]

I'm fed up with sugar coating things! A while back (about a week ago) I argued with a Staff member in chat. Besically, I had TRIED to help someone, got thier Skype and EVERYTHING. And I had been at this all day.

Help please

Okay, PM me
Here is my Skype


Chatter, chatter, natter
Ok I feel better.

2 hours later

Help

Okay, Just Pm again

Chatter, chatter, natter
Thanks

and this went on ALL DAY, and I was tollerent until about ten when I snapped and said "NO!"
And it wasn't just me, loads of us on chat that day had TRIED and many of us told that user we have tried and tried with them.

And then we got in to an argument with a Staff member. We can't tell a user "no", even when they have been ignoring our advice and frankly, spamming the chat with triggering content.

TeenHelp is an ADVICE website. If people DON'T want out advice, i'd rather they didn't ask. Because I actually felt rather guilty. My advice obvs wasn't helping and perhaps it was rubbish. But then other users told me they did the same to them.

It's getting to the point where I will leave this site. I love it, I have met fab people here and (quoting Miss Lovegood) It's like having friends

But honestly, one more incident like this and I will go. It's time users such as this (who have been problematic before) were monitored. And I know that is going to be difficult, but they are upsetting other members.


This is ranty, so it can be moved to Why Me? But I but it here to get opinions on the matter xx

Ps. It isn't just this one incident BTW.

[Pandamonium]

If you personally don't want to help someone, you at no point HAVE to help them. If you've tried and it's care they either aren't listening or are acting in a way you don't like, you can either ignore them in chat or refer them to other help resources on the site.

[TheBabyEater]

I don't see where the staff member was coming from. You don't have to help anyone, and it is perfectly acceptable to say no. Especially if you've tried helping them loads of times before or if it's triggering to you. Perhaps the staff member was upset at how the situation was handled, like how "No" was said, you know?

Either way, I some what have to agree. There does come a point when if someone just doesn't accept my help, I move on. I tried, I gave it my all, but if they are the kind of person that just WON'T accept ANY help, then there is absolutely nothing you can do. That is what the word "help" means. You try to help fix the problem, but it is essentially up to the other person to DO it. We're called Teen"help" after all, not Teen"fix your shit for you"

[The Morrigan]

Hey,

Like others have said if you've tried your best to help someone and they just won't take your advice you're in no way obliged to carry on helping. If I get into this situation in chat I refer them to a user who I think would be able to help them better or direct them to other areas of the site.

That said, I think I know which user you're referring to so if they are spamming the chat room with triggering things then please report them or try and get in touch with a chat moderator since if staff don't know about about the situation then we can't monitor it.

Also, like Marissa said some users do think that we can just fix everything for them and offer them simple solutions to their problems. Sometimes we can do that but most of the time the user has to be prepared to help themselves as well and if they don't want to do that then there's not much we can do for them other than encourage them and support them and it sounds like you tried to do that.

I hope this helped

[PSY]

I'm not sure "sugar-coating" the truth was the problem. I think you probably gave the member sound advice, but they simply weren't ready to implement your suggestions. Lots of people SAY they want advice, but they want to hear THEIR version of advice. Basically, they want you to confirm their ideas, which generally aren't very good ones.

In "Relationships and Dating", we've had members who have basically tried to get us to agree that cheating is acceptable under certain circumstances. When everyone says, "NO!", they become agitated. I don't know which member you were referring to in this thread (and don't post their name, as that would be against TeenHelp's Code of Conduct), but I imagine they kept asking you for help because they were hoping you'd give them THEIR answer one of those times. They weren't really asking for help... they were asking for validation, and you have every right to be frustrated with the member for wasting your time and placing an emotional strain on you. ANYONE would become upset if that went on all day!

It's your choice, but I would encourage you to stay on TeenHelp. The sad truth is that you're always going to meet people like this member, whether it's in forums/chat rooms or in person. You will always meet people who claim they want help, but only the help they're looking for... help that you can't or won't offer. There is nothing wrong with saying, "No," and gently encouraging them to check out other resources (ex. tell them to contact a staff member via HelpLINK or LiveHelp, link them to a sticky in the forums with hotlines/organizations, encourage them to talk to someone they know in person). Even staff members are allowed to say, "No," when another member becomes too aggressive when asking for advice - as a regular member, you are more than welcomed to put a limit on how much time and effort you're willing to give to a member.

[PutYourHeartsUp]

I completely agree with what has been said. But I'd like to point out that it all depends on how you said no. The only reason I could understand that would be if you said no in a rude way. In general though, it's not bad to say no. I do it all the time. I'll spend hours trying to help someone, and they won't take my advice, they make excuses, or there just isn't anything else I can do or say to help them so I'll tell them that as nicely as possible.

[Kate*]

I don't think this was sugar coating either, we will all have our fair share of people who will only listen if you tell them what they want to hear and keep at you until they get the answer they want or move on to someone who will agree with them. I've been staff for awhile and there are very few if any circumstances where you aren't allowed to tell a user no, I can think of only one that is restricted to within staff. It's all in the way you said it. There's a difference between:

"No! I'm not helping you anymore" and
"We've been talking for a long time now and I don't feel like I can help you anymore" and then refering them to someone or somewhere else.

The second one isn't sugar coating it's simply a more polite way to say what you mean while the first one is just rude, I know you get frustrated and I don't blame you, but snapping at the person probably won't help anything.

I'm not saying that that's what you said, this was just an example.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Unfortunately, we cannot appreciate the situation as you didn't provide sufficient details. Obviously if you just told the user, "no", and that was it, then the staff member was blowing smoke up your arse, however, if you said even a few words after "no", those are crucial words that may have influenced the staff member's decision. That said, the staff member may have been commenting you cannot refuse to help the user with the specific words you used as it may be considered rude. However, it is also the staff member's fault for not stepping up and telling the user to either accept the advice or move on. This is especially so if it was in the chat lobby and not the support and advice chat area. Many staff members won't put their balls/ovaries on the line and step up, they'd rather have the chat all peaceful, wonderful and free of arguments.

I have given people advice on here too where they outright refused to accept or even acknowledge it, sometimes to the point where other users in the lobby are also shut down. At that point, I don't bother trying to persuade the user because it's a waste of my time and effort even if my advice was sound, I'd rather let another user waste their time. If they keep bickering in chat, I put them on ignore unless the user takes a new interesting turn, which I judge based on the replies of other users.

[Unicorn ♥✿]

Okay but put it this way. I just said 'no' and 'I have tried, we all have'

I gues that's mean in some ways. Then again I DID already privately talk to a member of staff about the problem of spamming that chat/ triggering. If nothing gets done. I will take matters into my own hands.


I was told they were trying to monitor them, if this person has not already, I would suggest a staff members PMs him and politely asks him to stop thr triggering content and if he is not willing to accept help... then perhaps asking Th for it is not the best plan

[PutYourHeartsUp]

Originally Posted by Glen Coco

If nothing gets done. I will take matters into my own hands.

Just remember that "taking matters into your own hands" can very easily lead to you being banned from chat. A lot of times it seems like they aren't doing anything about the problem, but I know from experience that the mods have a way of working sometimes that may take a little time. If you really feel the need to take matters into your own hands, it's probably best to just screenshot whenever they spam with triggering stuff and send a report. But it depends on what you mean by spam, or triggering things. If it's triggering but in S&A, as far as I know it's not against the rules. And if they say something every few minutes, that's not spam as much as just sending stuff over and over.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by Glen Coco

Okay but put it this way. I just said 'no' and 'I have tried, we all have'

I gues that's mean in some ways. Then again I DID already privately talk to a member of staff about the problem of spamming that chat/ triggering. If nothing gets done. I will take matters into my own hands.


I was told they were trying to monitor them, if this person has not already, I would suggest a staff members PMs him and politely asks him to stop thr triggering content and if he is not willing to accept help... then perhaps asking Th for it is not the best plan

I don't consider "no, I have tried, we all have" to be mean, I think it was blunt but still polite. I think you should take a different route: let it be because you're beating a dead horse. If you're in chat and the person still spams, then put them on ignore because it's the staff's problem, not yours. Taking matters into your own hands is a useless endeavour because you'll rile everyone up in chat, including the person you claim is spamming. If you want to speak to the person in a rougher manner outside of TH, I have no problem with that, hell, I agree that many people need a kick in the ass on TH. But that's not what you're doing.

To be blunt, you're trying to make a dead dog run and bark. If the person isn't willing to accept advice of anyone, then that's their problem, hopefully a competent staff member can put their balls/ovaries on the line and deal with it. Continue with your plan if you want but don't expect staff or all people in the chat to be on your side. Ignore the person and be done with it.

[Marguerite]

I've had similar problems. Sometimes people PM me there issues, which is fine (I've got it in my sig after all) but sometimes people don't know when to stop.

I've had a few issues with people constantly messaging me with things like

"Why aren't you replying??"

"Did I do something wrong??"

"Helllloooooo???"

And it goes on and on and on...

The thing is a lot of people just refuse to listen to anything you say, and you get tired of a convo that goes

"Well have you tried..."
"NO"
"But..."
"YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND ME"
"I really think that..."
"ITS NOT THE SAME. MY LIFE SUCKS."
"Okay, however..."
"MY PARENTS HATE ME. I'M FAT AND UGLY"

And at that point there really isn't much you can do.

[Audacious]

I think that communication is an issue here, guys.

If somebody is pm-ing you and asking you for help and you are unwilling to help, it might help the user better if you explain WHY you are not going to help them. I tend to be very firm with users sometimes if this happens to me, where I have offered advice and I feel they are not listening or looking for something further. This often happens in live help, as we are asked to stay in a call with a caller for one hour before we can disengage. It's a good rule because a caller deserves that time, but often we are taken in circles. If you offer help and the person disregards it, you can simply say "okay, so what are some of your ideas of how we can solve this problem." Ask questions that get the user to think for themselves, because often, people look for others to give them the magic potion to solve everything...I had to learn the hard way that you have to do it yourself. People can support you and offer advice, but nobody can take the problem away. If I am out of ideas I will say something like "I would like you to try some of the suggestions that I offered you, and then if that does not work we can talk more." if the person comes back 5 minutes later and says "I tried it didn't work," I would support the person in trying again. If they are unwilling, I simply suggest that they are responsible for making themselves feel better. I explain that I am offering advice, and it is their choice whether or not to act on those things, or come up with some of their own answers. I find people are more receptive if you ask questions like, "what are some of the ideas that you have" or " When you have felt this way in the past, how have you dealt with it" If the answer is "I don't know", that tends to be an escape question to get out of doing the work. Be persistant. "Well, this has been going on for you for a while, and you are still alive and here right now, so I'm just wondering how you got through that in the past."

If you are unable to continue helping that person, explain to them why, and be kind about it, but firm, and explain that there are many resources on TH to ask for help, and maybe suggest that they visit helplink or live help. I am wary about giving out my skype and msn to people on here who are asking for help off the site, because then if anything innapropriate (threats, anything against the rules), it can't be documented and dealt with within site...Boundaries are good things to have put in place so that you don't get stuck with somebody telling you that they will end their life if you don't talk to them.

Oh I'd like to talk about that since i just mentioned it. Once I had a caller (this was back in the day when I was LHO, before I left the site) who I added on msn after our live help call. The person basically tied me up and said "I will kill myself if you go offline." Basically, I had to say "I have helped you all I can right now, but I really do have to go. I will not always be able to be online, and it is your choice what you do when I leave." I had to explain that I will, in fact, leave and that the person was not going to keep me here, and that what they choose to do with their time while I am offline is their choice, and I am not responsible for their suicide, should they choose to act that way. It's hard to say that, but it's true. I have never had someone who I have spoken to in that manner go through with the attempt. They are always there waiting for me to return

[Audacious]

Oh and Marguerite, In that situation, I would have said, "do you think you are fat and ugly, or do your parents think you are fat and ugly" and try to have them distinguish between truth and lies. Find out who told them that they are fat and ugly, and if it was themselves, ask "well would your friends say that you are" and if the answer is no...then I wonder where that comes from inside them. If other people see the person as good, but tey see themselves as bad...I wonder how they got to that point. Have the person name off 5 things that they LIKE about themselves. Push them to list five. Have them write those things down and put it somewhere they can see it.