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Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 20th 2009, 03:41 PM

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A stream of delegates from France and other European nations walked out of a United Nations conference here on Monday in protest during a speech by the Iranian president, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, who criticized the formation of a “racist government” in the Middle East in a clear reference to Israel.


Sharpening the dispute over the Iranian presence, Israel also recalled its ambassador to Switzerland for “consultations” on Monday in protest against the conference and a meeting held Sunday between the Swiss president, Hans-Rudolf Merz, and Mr. Ahmadinejad.
As Mr. Ahmadinejad took the podium here, two protesters, wearing colored wigs and shouting “Racist!” attempted to disrupt the beginning of Mr. Ahmadinejad’s speech but were quickly hauled out by security officers, and he continued speaking.


In his remarks, Mr. Ahmadinejad said the formation of the state of Israel left “an entire nation homeless under the pretext of Jewish suffering” in order “to establish a totally racist government.” In response, dozens of delegates stood up and filed out of the room. Cheers erupted from the audience galleries.


The conference, the first United Nations conference in eight years to address the issue of racism, convened was already being boycotted by Israel, the United States and several important allies.
Israeli leaders reacted to the welcoming of Mr. Ahmadinejad with deep dismay. In remarks at a cabinet meeting on Monday, the eve of Holocaust Remembrance Day, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said: “Six million of our brethren were massacred during the Holocaust. Sadly, not everyone learned the lesson.”


“While we gather to honor their memory, in Switzerland there will assemble a conference allegedly aimed against racism,” he said. “Its guest of honor is a racist Holocaust-denier who does not hide his intentions to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.”

Mr. Netanyahu, Foreign Minister Avidgor Lieberman and President Shimon Peres all expressed gratitude to the countries boycotting the conference.
Referring to Mr. Ahmadinejad’s role at the conference, Mr. Peres said Monday: “There must be a limit, even to the neutrality of Switzerland. Today is the day? This is the man to speak? This is the outlook for the future?”

The boycott was prompted by concerns that the conference would be a flashback to the initial world summit meeting against racism in 2001 in Durban, South Africa, which critics said served as a platform to bash Israel.

The decision to boycott the conference came after extended haggling over the meeting’s draft document, with negotiators removing contested references about Israel’s treatment of the Palestinians, about the defamation of religion and compensation for slavery.
But the first paragraph of the draft document reaffirms the final communiqué from Durban, where the United States and Israel walked out. That section, along with a reference to incitement that Washington said might infringe on free speech, prompted the United States to announce its boycott with “regret” over the weekend. Canada and Israel had already said they would not attend, and others who joined the boycott included Canada, Germany, the Netherlands, Italy and Australia.
Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier of Germany said that the decision had not been easy but that “this conference could be abused by others as a platform for their interests.”
Aviv Shiron, a deputy director-general of the Foreign Ministry and a former ambassador to Switzerland, told Israel Radio that Israel considered the meeting between the Swiss and Iranian presidents as “grave.”
He added that it “undermines the values of Switzerland itself, as a European country and as a neutral country, a country that appreciates and respects human rights and minority rights.”
But he said Israel was not recalling its ambassador to Switzerland permanently. “Ultimately, Switzerland is a friendly country to Israel,” he said.

Ban Ki-moon, the United Nations secretary general, opened the conference with a warning that a “new politics of xenophobia is on the rise.” He expressed regret at the boycott and said that the world economic crisis threatened to increase intolerance.
“Some nations, who by rights should be helping to forge a path to a better future are not here,” he said. “Outside these halls, interest groups of many political and ideological stripes shout against one another in acrimony.”

The boycott decision was greeted with elation by American organizations supporting Israel, which had been protesting for months, but dismayed some rights organizations and African-American groups who accused the administration of skipping a historic opportunity to right past wrongs.
President Obama said Sunday that he “would love” to participate in a conference that addressed racism and discrimination, but not one with the baggage of the previous gathering.
“Unfortunately, even though I think other countries made great efforts to accommodate some of our concerns and assured us that this conference would be more constructive, our participation would have involved putting our imprimatur on something that we just don’t believe,” the president said.
His remarks were echoed by other governments who pulled out on Sunday. “Several countries that still have a great deal to do in the area of human rights are misusing the summit to elevate religion above human rights, to place unnecessary restrictions on freedom of expression, to ignore discrimination based on sexual orientation and to implicitly single out Israel and put it in the dock,” said the Dutch foreign minister, Maxime Verhagen.
The United Nations high commissioner for human rights, Navi Pillay, said the boycotting countries had allowed Middle East politics to intrude into a conference on discrimination.
“I am shocked and deeply disappointed by the United States’ decision not to attend,” Ms. Pillay said in a statement. “A handful of states have permitted one or two issues to dominate their approach to this issue, allowing them to outweigh the concerns of numerous groups of people that suffer racism and similar forms of intolerance.”
Human rights groups said countries that boycott the conference were losing the chance to set the record straight on racism. “These governments are ceding the floor to more radical voices,” said Juliette de Rivero, the Geneva advocacy director at Human Rights Watch.




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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 20th 2009, 08:12 PM

My view?

Ahmadinejad is wrong.

The Israeli's are very wrong.

Any other thoughts?
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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 20th 2009, 09:30 PM

Allowing Ahmadinejad to speak at this conference is the exact reason why half the Western world pulled out of this. The Arab-Israeli war of words (and sometimes more than that) will continue for years, and I don't think it will end until one side destroys the other.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 21st 2009, 01:24 AM

Also these comments come on the same day Hitler was born.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 21st 2009, 02:42 AM

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Originally Posted by Union Of V View Post
My view?

Ahmadinejad is wrong.

The Israeli's are very wrong.

Any other thoughts?
Nah, I'd say the Israelis are in trying to make sure they don't lose their rights again.
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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 21st 2009, 02:39 PM

He also spoke about the current economic climate and said something about the big powers being responsible
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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 21st 2009, 03:20 PM

Ahemadinejab speaking on racism when he is persecuting TONS of Baha'is in his country? Or... does religious persecution not hold the same weight as racism?

I could care less what that man says.
   
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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 21st 2009, 04:00 PM

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Originally Posted by Union Of V View Post
My view?

Ahmadinejad is wrong.

The Israeli's are very wrong.

Any other thoughts?
How is Israel very wrong exactly?


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Cool Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 21st 2009, 04:08 PM

Yea how is Israel wrong to defend there citizens?.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 21st 2009, 07:56 PM

Hah, I would have loved to be there just to walk out on it. Ahmadinejad is a dolt. Enough said.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 21st 2009, 09:05 PM

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Nah, I'd say the Israelis are in trying to make sure they don't lose their rights again.
How? They're US-backed remember?

I say the Israelis are wrong because they CONSTANTLY use the Holocaust excuse to make it seem they're the victim. I'm not trying to be disrespectful to the victims of the Holocaust, it is definately THE largest and most terrifying genocide in history. However I don't think that it should be used to support any one group in modern times, as history is history (if it was brought up in response to an imminent genocide, then that would be proper). Lets face it,the Israeli human rights record isn't the best, yet it is in a relatively safe position in the Middle East (weak Syrian military, truce with Egypt).

Any thoughts on that?
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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 21st 2009, 10:43 PM

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Originally Posted by Union Of V View Post
How? They're US-backed remember?

I say the Israelis are wrong because they CONSTANTLY use the Holocaust excuse to make it seem they're the victim. I'm not trying to be disrespectful to the victims of the Holocaust, it is definately THE largest and most terrifying genocide in history. However I don't think that it should be used to support any one group in modern times, as history is history (if it was brought up in response to an imminent genocide, then that would be proper). Lets face it,the Israeli human rights record isn't the best, yet it is in a relatively safe position in the Middle East (weak Syrian military, truce with Egypt).

Any thoughts on that?
I wouldn't say Israel is in a safe spot. Yes, Israel has a very strong military, which was obvious in the recent Gaza raids. However, countries such as Lebanon, Iran have no problem attacking (Lebanon has in the past) Israel if any more problems arise.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 21st 2009, 11:36 PM

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Originally Posted by Union Of V View Post
How? They're US-backed remember?

I say the Israelis are wrong because they CONSTANTLY use the Holocaust excuse to make it seem they're the victim. I'm not trying to be disrespectful to the victims of the Holocaust, it is definately THE largest and most terrifying genocide in history. However I don't think that it should be used to support any one group in modern times, as history is history (if it was brought up in response to an imminent genocide, then that would be proper). Lets face it,the Israeli human rights record isn't the best, yet it is in a relatively safe position in the Middle East (weak Syrian military, truce with Egypt).

Any thoughts on that?
Israelis, well, Jews in specifically are hated by every country around them. Non-Muslims have LESS rights in many Muslim countries. Therefore the Jews will stop at nothing to prevent their subjugation. I mean come on, the countries around them aren't exactly liberal, pro-free speech, pro freedom of religion, etc.
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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 22nd 2009, 10:29 AM

Gram Negative - true

Quote:
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I wouldn't say Israel is in a safe spot. Yes, Israel has a very strong military, which was obvious in the recent Gaza raids. However, countries such as Lebanon, Iran have no problem attacking (Lebanon has in the past) Israel if any more problems arise.
Which is the main reason the US supports them - Iran and formerly the USSR are within reach.

I didn't make it clear in the last point but what annoys me is the Holocaust reply. I mean they could say "that's slander" or "it's completely unfounded" or cite examples. Instead they say "our bretheren were slaughtered in the holocaust". How is that relevant?
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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 22nd 2009, 08:02 PM

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Originally Posted by Union Of V View Post
How? They're US-backed remember?

I say the Israelis are wrong because they CONSTANTLY use the Holocaust excuse to make it seem they're the victim. I'm not trying to be disrespectful to the victims of the Holocaust, it is definately THE largest and most terrifying genocide in history. However I don't think that it should be used to support any one group in modern times, as history is history (if it was brought up in response to an imminent genocide, then that would be proper). Lets face it,the Israeli human rights record isn't the best, yet it is in a relatively safe position in the Middle East (weak Syrian military, truce with Egypt).
I agree with you. What Israel did towards the Palestinians does NOT justify how they were treated in the past. I mean how does committing war crimes (the use of white phosphorus...) help anyone? And it's not that Muslim countries want to wipe Israel off the planet, hey they can still live on THEIR land, but quit stealing land which belong to other people.Besides, it's the Israelis that want to wipe Palestinians and Muslima off the face of the Earth. And the whole world knows Israel is US-backed (otherwise how could they get off scot-free on killing women, children and bombing schools and clinic?)

And whenever Israel does something bad and evil and truly horrific, they bring up the Holocaust as their excuse. Real mature, people. Is that how you want to honor the memory of the people who died in the Holocaust? By murdering women and children? That's just great. And you call Ahmadinejad a racist. Haha. Have you looked in the mirror lately?
   
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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 22nd 2009, 09:10 PM

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I agree with you. What Israel did towards the Palestinians does NOT justify how they were treated in the past. I mean how does committing war crimes (the use of white phosphorus...) help anyone? And it's not that Muslim countries want to wipe Israel off the planet, hey they can still live on THEIR land, but quit stealing land which belong to other people.Besides, it's the Israelis that want to wipe Palestinians and Muslima off the face of the Earth. And the whole world knows Israel is US-backed (otherwise how could they get off scot-free on killing women, children and bombing schools and clinic?)

And whenever Israel does something bad and evil and truly horrific, they bring up the Holocaust as their excuse. Real mature, people. Is that how you want to honor the memory of the people who died in the Holocaust? By murdering women and children? That's just great. And you call Ahmadinejad a racist. Haha. Have you looked in the mirror lately?
Palestinians have no right to attack israel for reasons of claiming israel belongs to them and Israel isn't the Enemy. And Ahmadinejad continues to deny that the holocaust never happened speech and the Jews just want to be in the spot light.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 22nd 2009, 10:21 PM

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Palestinians have no right to attack israel for reasons of claiming israel belongs to them and Israel isn't the Enemy. And Ahmadinejad continues to deny that the holocaust never happened speech and the Jews just want to be in the spot light.
If you look back at history, the land DID belong to the Palestinians. However, I agree with you that groups such as Hamas have no right to attack Israel and vice versa. My biggest beef against Israel is how little or barely any human rights they have given to the Palestinian people. The checkpoints in and around Gaza have prevented Palestinians from moving freely (to work, schools, even hospitals). The West Bank Barrier was a terrible idea, IMHO, as it has only increased poverty in Palestine greatly.

Back to the topic: Ahmadinejad is an ass, enough said. If I was at the conference, I would have stepped out immediately. Honestly, how can anyone stand for his biogtry?


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 22nd 2009, 11:06 PM

I don't understand why he was even allowed to attend.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 22nd 2009, 11:30 PM

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I don't understand why he was even allowed to attend.
He was Iran's only representative or something along those lines. He is the president of Iran after all.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 22nd 2009, 11:36 PM

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If you look back at history, the land DID belong to the Palestinians. However, I agree with you that groups such as Hamas have no right to attack Israel and vice versa. My biggest beef against Israel is how little or barely any human rights they have given to the Palestinian people. The checkpoints in and around Gaza have prevented Palestinians from moving freely (to work, schools, even hospitals). The West Bank Barrier was a terrible idea, IMHO, as it has only increased poverty in Palestine greatly.

Back to the topic: Ahmadinejad is an ass, enough said. If I was at the conference, I would have stepped out immediately. Honestly, how can anyone stand for his biogtry?
Actually, Israel never belonged to the Palestinians. Prior to the formation of the state of Israel, "Palestine" was a British owned territory in which Palestinian tribes were allowed to dwell. And upon Israel's declaration, the Palestinians were never forced out. THEY refused to live in peace with the Israelis. They, as well as their Arab neighbors, attacked the Israelis resulting in the War For Independence. It was never in the plan to have to fight them, the Palestinians and Muslims brought this upon themselves. Rights to the Palestinian people? They got their own seperate territory, didn't they? Gaza Strip. And they control it themselves. Their rights are compromised by their own government, not the Israeli government. They voted in the Hamas, by the way. And also, Israel provides them will all their utilities: water, electricity, etc. They also take in injured militants into Israeli hospitals to treat them.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 22nd 2009, 11:44 PM

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He was Iran's only representative or something along those lines. He is the president of Iran after all.
Yeah but he is known to be controversial, and especially after a bunch of countries said they were boycotting the conference you'd think they would ask him not to come. At least they should have told him that he couldn't bring up Israel or he would be banned from all further UN conferences or something. I believe in including leaders from as many countries as possible, but when the admittance of one country means losing the support of many other countries and hindering the productiveness of the conference, I think that leader should be excluded.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 12:25 AM

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Yeah but he is known to be controversial, and especially after a bunch of countries said they were boycotting the conference you'd think they would ask him not to come. At least they should have told him that he couldn't bring up Israel or he would be banned from all further UN conferences or something. I believe in including leaders from as many countries as possible, but when the admittance of one country means losing the support of many other countries and hindering the productiveness of the conference, I think that leader should be excluded.
Why is Iran even in the U.N... All they want to do is "wipe Israel off the map"


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 12:48 AM

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Why is Iran even in the U.N... All they want to do is "wipe Israel off the map"
Well that's pretty much what I was wondering


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 01:28 AM

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Actually, Israel never belonged to the Palestinians. Prior to the formation of the state of Israel, "Palestine" was a British owned territory in which Palestinian tribes were allowed to dwell. And upon Israel's declaration, the Palestinians were never forced out. THEY refused to live in peace with the Israelis. They, as well as their Arab neighbors, attacked the Israelis resulting in the War For Independence. It was never in the plan to have to fight them, the Palestinians and Muslims brought this upon themselves. Rights to the Palestinian people? They got their own seperate territory, didn't they? Gaza Strip. And they control it themselves. Their rights are compromised by their own government, not the Israeli government. They voted in the Hamas, by the way. And also, Israel provides them will all their utilities: water, electricity, etc. They also take in injured militants into Israeli hospitals to treat them.
The Palestinians were there first, though hence why they believe the land belongs to them and it was known as 'Palestine' before. As for land, Israel has captured a good portion of Palestinian land over the decades. Since 1967, Israel has built thousands of settlements and are illegal under international law. Are you not aware of the ever increasing poverty in Palestine? Like I mentioned above, Palestinians cannot move freely due to the various check points placed by Israel and this has definitely caused challenges for Palestinians seeking medical care.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scout
And also, Israel provides them will all their utilities: water, electricity, etc.
Are you not aware that Israel has been restricting fuel imports into the Gaza Strip for awhile now? And due to Israel's restrictions, there is barely a good water source in the Gaza Strip. Read this if you wish to learn more:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7545636.stm

Honestly, it is quite clear that the Palestinians barely have basic human essentials and this was obviously the case in the recent Gaza conflict. Lastly, Hamas is one of the biggest obstacles holding Palestine back.

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Why is Iran even in the U.N... All they want to do is "wipe Israel off the map"
It should be made clear that it was Ahmadinejad who made that terrible statement. I don't think it is fair to say that Iran as a country believes that is what should be done.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 03:15 AM

Have you ever stopped to think that there is a reason for those check points? And a reason for that stoppage? It's called counter-terrorism. Sending thousands of rockets into a country (now done by Hamas, the government) is usually grounds for said country to defend and/or protect itself and have retaliation. Only because it's Israel, have people suddenly come up with this new fangled "uneven power" rule of war. Bullshit.

And if we're talking who settled there first, well the entire ancient Jewish culture were the first people who treaded that land.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 03:31 AM

Ahmadinejad should be banned from the U.N.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 03:35 AM

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Originally Posted by Scout View Post
Have you ever stopped to think that there is a reason for those check points? And a reason for that stoppage? It's called counter-terrorism. Sending thousands of rockets into a country (now done by Hamas, the government) is usually grounds for said country to defend and/or protect itself and have retaliation. Only because it's Israel, have people suddenly come up with this new fangled "uneven power" rule of war. Bullshit.

And if we're talking who settled there first, well the entire ancient Jewish culture were the first people who treaded that land.
Has Israel stopped and think about the terrible consequences that are a result of the restrictions they have placed on the Palestinians? I think it is awful that Palestinians cannot move around freely in their own territory. The barriers have had horrible effects on the Palestinian economy and Palestinian life in general. Look, Israel has a right to protect its' territory and people. If Hamas decided to launch a rocket attack on Israel tomorrow, I'd expect Israel to defend itself and vice versa. However, I'm just really appalled by the way the Palestinians have been treated by the Israeli government. They BARELY have anything. I hope for the sake of both groups, there will be some kind of peace agreement in the works over the next few years.


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How did Ghandi ever withstand the hunger strikes and all,
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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 04:29 AM

They "barely have anything" because they flat out refuse to share the land. They want the Jews eradicated and that's it. It's their own choice to be cooped up in poverty in the Gaza Strip because they cannot and will not live together in peace with the Israelis. If they didn't strap bombs to their children proudly sending them out to "martyr themself" to kill a Jew for "seventy-two virgins" then hell, they'd get along great. But that is not how things are.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 04:42 AM

Well for starters suicide bombings/rocket attacks must stop before any plans get started.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 05:02 AM

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Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
The Palestinians were there first, though hence why they believe the land belongs to them and it was known as 'Palestine' before. As for land, Israel has captured a good portion of Palestinian land over the decades. Since 1967, Israel has built thousands of settlements and are illegal under international law. Are you not aware of the ever increasing poverty in Palestine? Like I mentioned above, Palestinians cannot move freely due to the various check points placed by Israel and this has definitely caused challenges for Palestinians seeking medical care.
You do realize that land has been owned and lived on by Jews since the 13th century BCE, right? And that through the thousands of years of power struggle, there has always been a Jewish presence in that area? Islam didn't even hold power over there until around 630 CE.

Not to mention, if you look at the size of Israel compared to the size of the original Palestinian British Mandate, Jordan has taken over more of the Palestinian's land that the reformation of Israel did. Why isn't anyone mad at Jordan? Or Egypt? Or Syria? For starting the war that actually caused most of the Palestinians to become displaced?

Nope. Blame Israel, even though the reason they put those checkpoints up in the first place is because some people find it necessary to shoot Israeli soldiers and citizens whilst passing through, and sometimes even strapping bombs to their chests.

What people need to understand is, Israel didn't start moving Palestinians into camps after it was re-instated because they didn't like them, they do it because they have fought several wars, some of which instigated by Palestinians irregulars (See "Holy War Army") and their Arabic allies who are MORE than happy to wipe Israel off the map because they're simple not Muslim.

And to close, the Israel's on several thousand fucking occasions have tried to make peace and split the land of with Palestine. And EVERY fucking time, the response is, albeit more civil "Fuck off and die and give us the land."


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 09:34 AM

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Originally Posted by 9Lives View Post
I agree with you. What Israel did towards the Palestinians does NOT justify how they were treated in the past. I mean how does committing war crimes (the use of white phosphorus...) help anyone? And it's not that Muslim countries want to wipe Israel off the planet, hey they can still live on THEIR land, but quit stealing land which belong to other people.Besides, it's the Israelis that want to wipe Palestinians and Muslima off the face of the Earth. And the whole world knows Israel is US-backed (otherwise how could they get off scot-free on killing women, children and bombing schools and clinic?)
Can you provide historical evidence that Jews want to wipe out Muslims?

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Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
The Palestinians were there first, though hence why they believe the land belongs to them and it was known as 'Palestine' before.
Can you actually provide evidence of that? Who did the Jews fight for that land before the Palestinians. Do you know how long the Jews lived on that land BEFORE the Muslims invaded? BEFORE the Muslims put JEWS into 2nd class status?

Last edited by Gram Negative; April 23rd 2009 at 09:37 AM. Reason: Multiple posts have been merged automatically.
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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 11:03 AM

You want historical evidence? Let's look at the recent murders of women and children in Palestine. The Israeli army murdered women and children, even 3-month old babies!, on the reason that when the babies grew up they would become Hamas soldiers! How do they know that?

Hey, I also don't agree with how Hamas are handling things in Palestine and how they're attacking Israel. Hamas should just stop. So should the Israel army. How many Palestines were murdered compared to how many Israelis were killed recently? Thousands and hundreds compared to the hundreds and tens. I'm not saying noone's death was insignificant. The Israel army have better weapons and missiles compared to the weapons Hamas has, killing hundreds at a time compared to the killing of several by a Hamas rocket. And the reason for the suicide bombers? They're desperate and they don't have another way to send the weapon over, so they use themselves. What else would you do if you're desperate, dirt poor, and want to help out your country? And compare how many people ware killed by a suicide bomber to how many people are killed when Israel attacks? Again the ratio is frightening.

Quotes from globalsecurity.org/security/issues/israel-palestine articles, "Israel promotes the establishment and the expansion of settlements, although this is illegal under international law"

and "Although, these settlements in Palestinian territory are illegal under international law and disrupt the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, there are more than 400,000 settlers in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. (BBC) "

AND "Since 2002, the Israeli government has been building a "security fence" that winds deep into Palestinian territory, claiming the barrier would keep Palestinian suicide bombers from striking Israeli citizens. But this separation wall is a major de facto annexation of Palestinian territories. By building the wall and increasing settlement expansion, Israel retains control over important Palestinian economic areas, agricultural grounds and natural resources like water. The International Court of Justice has ruled that Israel's West Bank barrier violates international law, but the unequal struggle over the land of Palestine continues. "

Besides Israel has broken international law, again the use of white phosphorus, Has Palestine broken any? If they have, please enlighten me. And yet, Israel has yet to be brought forth for their actions and people continue to blame Palestine. Israel has the right to live, Jews have the right to live, I have nothing against them , but when women and innocent children are being murdered for just being alive, then, in my opinion, there aren't any excuses or reasons for that.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:
but when women and innocent children are being murdered for just being alive, then, in my opinion, there aren't any excuses or reasons for that.
As a result of attacks from hamas.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 01:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gram Negative View Post
Can you provide historical evidence that Jews want to wipe out Muslims?



Can you actually provide evidence of that? Who did the Jews fight for that land before the Palestinians. Do you know how long the Jews lived on that land BEFORE the Muslims invaded? BEFORE the Muslims put JEWS into 2nd class status?
The Romans were the ones who invaded the land, not the Muslims. They re-named the land "Palestine". After, the land was conquered by the Arabs. In the 19th century, the Zionist Movement began and Jews were beginning to move back to the Holy Land.


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How did Mandela get the will to surpass the everyday,
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How did Ghandi ever withstand the hunger strikes and all,
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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 04:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9Lives View Post
You want historical evidence? Let's look at the recent murders of women and children in Palestine. The Israeli army murdered women and children, even 3-month old babies!, on the reason that when the babies grew up they would become Hamas soldiers! How do they know that?
Can I get a source on that? Because I'm pretty sure Israel doesn't target civilians... in fact I'm completely sure. And if you're talking about how an Israeli bomb that was meant for a Hamas missile battery caused collateral damage, maybe you should be pissed at Hamas for hiding them NEXT TO SCHOOLS AND PUBLIC BUILDINGS.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 04:51 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 9Lives View Post
You want historical evidence? Let's look at the recent murders of women and children in Palestine. The Israeli army murdered women and children, even 3-month old babies!, on the reason that when the babies grew up they would become Hamas soldiers! How do they know that?
Are yo suggesting people don't die in wars?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 9Lives View Post
Hey, I also don't agree with how Hamas are handling things in Palestine and how they're attacking Israel. Hamas should just stop. So should the Israel army. How many Palestines were murdered compared to how many Israelis were killed recently? Thousands and hundreds compared to the hundreds and tens. I'm not saying noone's death was insignificant.
Why would it be better if more Israelis died? Isn't the whole point to kill more of the enemy and save your own population.



Quote:
Originally Posted by 9Lives View Post
Quotes from globalsecurity.org/security/issues/israel-palestine articles, "Israel promotes the establishment and the expansion of settlements, although this is illegal under international law"

and "Although, these settlements in Palestinian territory are illegal under international law and disrupt the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, there are more than 400,000 settlers in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. (BBC) "

AND "Since 2002, the Israeli government has been building a "security fence" that winds deep into Palestinian territory, claiming the barrier would keep Palestinian suicide bombers from striking Israeli citizens. But this separation wall is a major de facto annexation of Palestinian territories. By building the wall and increasing settlement expansion, Israel retains control over important Palestinian economic areas, agricultural grounds and natural resources like water. The International Court of Justice has ruled that Israel's West Bank barrier violates international law, but the unequal struggle over the land of Palestine continues. "

Besides Israel has broken international law, again the use of white phosphorus, Has Palestine broken any? If they have, please enlighten me. And yet, Israel has yet to be brought forth for their actions and people continue to blame Palestine. Israel has the right to live, Jews have the right to live, I have nothing against them , but when women and innocent children are being murdered for just being alive, then, in my opinion, there aren't any excuses or reasons for that.

Jew's DO NOT want to become 2nd class citizens. Their rights are more important the UN laws.

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Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
The Romans were the ones who invaded the land, not the Muslims. They re-named the land "Palestine". After, the land was conquered by the Arabs. In the 19th century, the Zionist Movement began and Jews were beginning to move back to the Holy Land.
Umm, the Muslims also conquered that land.... The Jews began fighting the Muslims BEFORE the 19th century..... They tried to take control of that area during every occupation. And yes, the Muslims SLAUGHTERED the Jews and gave them less rights than Muslims. What is your beef with people that are trying to keep their freedom?
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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gram Negative

Umm, the Muslims also conquered that land.... The Jews began fighting the Muslims BEFORE the 19th century..... They tried to take control of that area during every occupation. And yes, the Muslims SLAUGHTERED the Jews and gave them less rights than Muslims. What is your beef with people that are trying to keep their freedom?
Where do I display any "beef with people that are trying to keep their freedom"? Hell, I understand exactly how Israelis AND Palestinians may feel. As a Vietnamese American, my family and I escaped Viet Nam to seek freedom from constant political and religious persecution from the communist gov't. I know exactly how it feels to lose your homeland and, especially basic human rights. I think the Palestinians have every single right to the land as the Israelis do. They want freedom and so do the Israelis. And I even mentioned that I want peace for both groups, did I not? I support a two-state solution.

Did I not mention that the Arabs DID conquer the land AFTER the Romans drove out the Jews? Please, re-read my post before jumping to conclusions. Based on what I have read on the history of the land (a complicated one for sure), the Romans controlled the land and basically drove out the Jews. After, you had various Arab tribes come in and took over the land.

My only real "beef" in this entire situation is the fact that the Palestinians barely have basic human rights. I don't support Hamas nor am I huge fan of the Israeli gov't. I just want peace in that region and unfortunately, peace and freedom are waaaay too difficult to be achieved there.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 05:33 PM

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Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
Did I not mention that the Arabs DID conquer the land AFTER the Romans drove out the Jews? Please, re-read my post before jumping to conclusions. Based on what I have read on the history of the land (a complicated one for sure), the Romans controlled the land and basically drove out the Jews. After, you had various Arab tribes come in and took over the land.
And do you remember from history class how the Muslims created certain laws that forced non-Muslims to pay more taxes, have less rights. And Jews also left the area after the Muslims invaded because they lost a lot of rights. Then Jews also fought the Muslims over sovereignty prior to the 19th century. So basically this is nothing new. The Jews have fought EVERYONE for that land. The Muslims are just passing through time. The Jews will still live on that land like they have for thousands of years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
My only real "beef" in this entire situation is the fact that the Palestinians barely have basic human rights. I don't support Hamas nor am I huge fan of the Israeli gov't. I just want peace in that region and unfortunately, peace and freedom are waaaay too difficult to be achieved there.
Israel is surrounded by countries full of religious fundamentalists. Religion fundamentalists should also be attacked with extreme prejudice. Israel some stupid Jews too that are as psychotic as Hamas. Israel has jailed hundreds of Jews, Israelis, that tried to bomb Palestinian civilians.

We also have Christians in the US that support Israel because they think that if Jews control Israel then Jesus Christ will come. That is why I hate Christian Evangelicals.

Basically to me: Christian Evangelical = Jewish Fundie = Islamist; I HATE all three. They are the reason Israel is still at war.

Think about this: If you are not Mulims, you cannot visit Mecca. That is some Nazi ish. Those countries are backwards and Israel will stop at nothing to make sure that they don't get their hands on Israel.
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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 11:19 PM

Just want to point out how much of bull shit the white phosphorous thing is. White phosphorous is an extremely common chemical used in smoke bombs/grenades as a defence shield, etc. Remind me again how use of this is an outrageous act against the Muslims? Yes, human rights groups asked them to use caution with it because it can potentially be mildly harmful to civilians, but I would be one to think that Kasaam rockets are a little more dangerous. Human rights groups, why don't you ask the Palestinians to quit firing, hm?

And Gram Negative, by your Obama shirt, I never thought I would agree with you in my life, but I do commend you for your excellent debate for Israel and I completely agree with everything you've said.


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Re: Ahmadinejad Speech Prompts Walkout at Racism Conference. - April 23rd 2009, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Just want to point out how much of bull shit the white phosphorous thing is. White phosphorous is an extremely common chemical used in smoke bombs/grenades as a defence shield, etc. Remind me again how use of this is an outrageous act against the Muslims?

Blowing up jews is perfectly fine?


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