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White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 28th 2009, 03:42 AM

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/27/low...ane/index.html



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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 28th 2009, 03:58 AM

Lol Conspiracy/controversy!!!


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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 28th 2009, 03:58 AM

Stupid idea, really stupid idea, but it seems that people in America need to chill out a little. It rather highlights how paranoid people are. My first thought on seeing something like that would be "Woah, that plane is flying low" *get on with rest of the day* not "FGDHYGFHG!!! TERRORISTS!!" *have panic attack*.
   
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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 28th 2009, 03:58 AM

my first question is why would the gov't not think that a low flying plane in NYC would cause panic? i mean it would in any big city but come on. and coulden't they have done this somewhere else, like in a desert or something. did it have to be in a big city?

but idk. i'm sure there is alot of info we don't know.
but i don't think that excuses this


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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 28th 2009, 04:12 AM

I could understand why it would scare people.
But why is it flying so close to the building? If they wanted a good photo, they could have just edited a building in there...




   
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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 28th 2009, 05:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
Stupid idea, really stupid idea, but it seems that people in America need to chill out a little. It rather highlights how paranoid people are. My first thought on seeing something like that would be "Woah, that plane is flying low" *get on with rest of the day* not "FGDHYGFHG!!! TERRORISTS!!" *have panic attack*.
I'm going to assume a few people in New York were at the World Trade Center, or were deeply affected by it. PTSD? Plus, being so close to where the World Trade Center was, maybe it didn't affect you in the UK as it did here, but that was scary. And how would you know it wasn't a terrorist? What other possible reason do the planes have to fly low like that? Anyone with common sense would have alerted the city.

What really aggrivates me is this quote:
"There was no warning. It looked like the plane was about to come into us," she said. "I'm a therapist, and I actually had a panic attack."

...She's a therapist, saying basically that therapists aren't real people too. Which implies it's stupid to have a panic attack. Hopefully it was taken out of context or something.



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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 28th 2009, 02:56 PM

You can hardly blame New Yorkers for the reaction they had; many of them have PTSD because of 9/11, and others are simply afraid of a repeat of the event. They aren't paranoid; when something like that has happened before with catastrophic results, the natural reaction is to be panicked or nervous.

It really was a stupid idea to have the photo shoot over Manhattan and the Hudson. I smell an impending lawsuit.


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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 28th 2009, 02:59 PM

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Originally Posted by Gidig View Post
What really aggrivates me is this quote:
"There was no warning. It looked like the plane was about to come into us," she said. "I'm a therapist, and I actually had a panic attack."

...She's a therapist, saying basically that therapists aren't real people too. Which implies it's stupid to have a panic attack. Hopefully it was taken out of context or something.
I read it like that too, Maria. Sounds like she was saying Therapists are too good to have panic attacks, or shouldn't have them because they are therapist

Anyway, I think this is just stupid. They should have told them what they were doing, end of story.


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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 28th 2009, 09:34 PM

When I heard the therapist's quote too I had the same thoughts. I mean, I'm sure she probably didn't mean it like that, but it sounded like she was saying panic attacks are ridiculous and she was above that. Anyway.

As everyone said, stupid idea. I mean, seriously? I know if that even happened here in Ireland, there would be some people going ''Oh, crap'' never mind in New York. I can't believe they could have been so idiotic.
   
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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 28th 2009, 09:58 PM

I dunno, to me it more seemed like she was saying "I'm trained to deal with and prevent panic attacks yet the stress and anxiety that this event caused in me was so great that it triggered one regardless of my training" rather than "I'm too good to have one so whatever losers".

I dunno, it just seems that Americans are way too over-dramatic about the whole 9/11 thing. I think you'd be hard pressed to find the same level of drama surrounding any other terrorist attack. People in London, Madrid or Bali don't walk around on egg shells and go to pieces everytime something could possibly be to do with terrorism.

Paranoia: "Paranoia is a disturbed thought process characterized by excessive anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality". I think people's reaction and stance towards terrorism in general pretty much fits paranoia. Though, I guess to associate a low flying plane with terrorism was rational but the failure to see any other reason was slightly irrational. Pilot error, a missed landing slot at a nearby air-port (I assume there is an airport near New York?), a military training exercise etc are all more likely possibilities than terrorism.

Oh I don't blame New Yorkers, I blame the media for instilling such a sense of fear.

Last edited by Jack; April 28th 2009 at 10:10 PM.
   
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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 28th 2009, 10:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
I dunno, to me it more seemed like she was saying "I'm trained to deal with and prevent panic attacks yet the stress and anxiety that this event caused in me was so great that it triggered one regardless of my training" rather than "I'm too good to have one so whatever losers".

I dunno, it just seems that Americans are way too over-dramatic about the whole 9/11 thing. I think you'd be hard pressed to find the same level of drama surrounding any other terrorist attack. People in London, Madrid or Bali don't walk around on egg shells and go to pieces everytime something could possibly be to do with terrorism.

Paranoia: "Paranoia is a disturbed thought process characterized by excessive anxiety or fear, often to the point of irrationality". I think people's reaction and stance towards terrorism in general pretty much fits paranoia. Though, I guess to associate a low flying plane with terrorism was rational but the failure to see any other reason was slightly irrational. Pilot error, a missed landing slot at a nearby air-port (I assume there is an airport near New York?), a military training exercise etc are all more likely possibilities than terrorism.

Oh I don't blame New Yorkers, I blame the media for instilling such a sense of fear.
How are Americans "way too over-dramatic about 9/11?" September 11th was the worst foreign attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor (which still affects many people today). It affected EVERY single American, whether or not they were in NYC that day. Plus, it was only a couple of months ago that a Boeing landed on the Hudson River.

Second, when things like that are happening, I'm not sure how many people can think 'rationally'. There is a huge presence of danger and people obviously want to be safe.


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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 28th 2009, 11:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
I dunno, to me it more seemed like she was saying "I'm trained to deal with and prevent panic attacks yet the stress and anxiety that this event caused in me was so great that it triggered one regardless of my training" rather than "I'm too good to have one so whatever losers".
Agreed, that's what I thought when I read the quote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
I dunno, it just seems that Americans are way too over-dramatic about the whole 9/11 thing. I think you'd be hard pressed to find the same level of drama surrounding any other terrorist attack. People in London, Madrid or Bali don't walk around on egg shells and go to pieces everytime something could possibly be to do with terrorism.
Although it wasn't the first attack on American soil, it was the largest since Pearl Harbor [as Mai said]. It was also the first large-scale attack the current generation[s] have seen. When you think about it, it would be the older citizens [70s, 80s, 90s] who remember WWII etc and attacks on America often; attacks at home isn't something the new generation is used to. This most likely increased the shock and fear 9/11 brought as, again, it was unexpected to many and a reality check. And, I'm sure quite a few who saw the plane overhead also saw the twin towers collapse. Seeing huge balls of fire on two very well-known skyscrapers, seeing a plan crash into the towers, seeing the people jumping out of the buildings in an attempt to save themselves...well, it's not something I think many people are going to forget in a hurry. The video feeds were all that the news stations were showing for at least a week or so following 9/11.

I do think Americans have a false sense of security, the thought of a terrorist attack is like the thought of having a fire in the house - sure, you know it happens, but it could never happen to you - it's that kind of mentality.



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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 28th 2009, 11:57 PM

Jack, I see what you're saying about the quote. It just, comes off that way you know? Which I was just offended by. As I said before though, could have been completely different in context.

9/11 here was a HUGE deal. It wasn't like a small, a few people died. It was like, how many people lost their family? How many people burned to death? Can you imagine seeing a building like that completely burn? Watching people jumping out of the windows? And then sit there helplessly as yet another plane hits there? I can't even imagine what standing there was like. Watching it on tv was bad enough. It was to the point many children didn't go to school, and it was almost like our town was entirely quiet for the next week or so. It was a big deal. People were crying a lot. Worried about their safety, about what's going to happen next. Worrying about if their friend got out. Worrying that someone they knew got killed. And thinking about how they got killed.

It was a really f*cked up situation. And I can look down at nobody for being scared of something happening again.



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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 29th 2009, 12:56 AM

Maria, I wish I could remember as much as you do. I just remember being in a panicked state. I don't remember hardly any details. You remember so much. I'm jealous. One day we'll be asked to talk about this and I won't be able to provide any good quotes.

I personally would have freaked out if I saw a plane flying low over NYC.


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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 29th 2009, 02:55 AM

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How are Americans "way too over-dramatic about 9/11?" September 11th was the worst foreign attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor (which still affects many people today). It affected EVERY single American, whether or not they were in NYC that day. Plus, it was only a couple of months ago that a Boeing landed on the Hudson River.
Surely the plane landing in the Hudson should make it more likely to jump to an idea like mechanical failure rather than terrorists?

Well I guess from a British perspective Americans (in general) are slightly over-emotional and dramatic about everything. That court case with J.K Rowling where the American defendant actually cried to which she replied "I really don't want to cry because I'm British, you know" seems to stick in my mind as an example of that. So obviously this will be sort of ethnocentric.

Well being over-dramatic in ways such as bringing up 9/11 at every concievable opportunity, all the hand wringing over something 8 years ago as if it happened yesterday (most countries would have moved on, even if only slightly), the tacky crying eagle posters and memorabilia, the constant replaying of it by the media, the wallowing in self pity, the constant excuses to American foreign policy being "yeah...well...9/11!!", the use of it by politicians to pass ridiculous laws curtailing rights etc. It all just seems to cheapen the actual event, just the feeling I get. It just seems as though America as a whole thinks that if they for one moment stop being outraged by 9/11, for even a second, then the terrorists win. It sort of seems like it's been, in a twisted sort of way, glorifyed; as if people just enjoy being upset about it.

I mean, 67 people from the UK died on 9/11 (and 329 from other countries) and barely anyone here even knows that, or would care if they knew and if they did then they wouldn't let it run their lives through fear. Yeah, I know it's not the same thing or scale but 9/11 did not only effect America.

Sure it was shocking, granted. But so were the London bombings, the IRA bombing campaign, the Bali bombings, the Madrid bombings and while not as many people died in those (though the IRA bombs were arguably worse 1,800 deaths + 6,000 British Army and 14,000 civilians injured.) people don't go crazy everytime they see a suspicious looking arab guy with a back-pack on a tube or an irish guy in a pub.

I'm probably going to be hated for this post but meh, I don't even really know what I'm trying to get at. There is a point here but I can't seem to articulate it properly. It just seems so wrong to be so touchy about it still. Though I guess it's more the media's fault than people in general. Sorry if I've offended anyone, it just seems like any other country would be past this by now. I understand how shocking it 9/11 is/was but it gets slightly exasperating how it's been allowed to effect people's way of life so badly despite people having more chance of being killed in their home or on the way to work than by terrorists. I wont take it personally if you get angry at me for this post, really, I understand it's still a sensitive topic, I just don't think it should be as sensitive as it is. Again, sorry. I can pretty much assume that I'll get some really angry people replying to this, but please bare in mind I really don't intend to piss you off.

Quote:
Second, when things like that are happening, I'm not sure how many people can think 'rationally'. There is a huge presence of danger and people obviously want to be safe.
They create the "presence of danger" in their minds. There was not actually any danger here, they only scared themselves due mainly to the exaggerated threat of terrorism by the media.

I'm not looking down on the scared people themselves, I'm looking down on the society which encourages such fear.

Ugh, rereading that I sound like an ignorant moron. I just can't phrase what I want to say, gah. Maybe: "I understand why it is/was upsetting however I don't quite understand the level to which it controls people's lives"? Hmm still not quite.

Last edited by Jack; April 29th 2009 at 03:17 AM. Reason: Attempting to sound like less of a git. (probably failing >.<)
   
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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 29th 2009, 03:10 AM

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Originally Posted by Jack View Post
Stupid idea, really stupid idea, but it seems that people in America need to chill out a little. It rather highlights how paranoid people are. My first thought on seeing something like that would be "Woah, that plane is flying low" *get on with rest of the day* not "FGDHYGFHG!!! TERRORISTS!!" *have panic attack*.
I take it you weren't there when 9/11 actually happened. I can only imagine how scared those people were. A lot of people were killed, knew someone who was killed, or was trapped in all of the rubble for days afterward. People had their lives shattered on that day. It's not something that anyone in NYC is likely to forget.

But I do think it's stupid that they would have a plane fly that low of NYC anyway. Seriously... Did they think that people would just ignore it and think nothing of it?


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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 29th 2009, 04:28 AM

Obama First mistake lol.


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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 29th 2009, 05:09 AM

Yeah I can see how a low-flying plane could surprise/upset people in New York (government should have announced something like "Oh, btw, we're having this photo shoot, no worries..." or whatever it was) but I dont think everyone should be so outraged and crazy about it. I kind of agree with Jack in that we may over-do bringing up 9/11 in everything.

Maybe thats just because I live in AZ and i have that "sure, you know it happens, but it could never happen to you - it's that kind of mentality" thing that ForeverAutumn mentioned, but still.


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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 29th 2009, 07:40 PM

I think the people's reaction was perfectly normal. It's to be expected. Heck, I live in Ireland, and was what, 10 or 11, when 9/11 happened and I can honestly say it traumatized me. Maybe I'm just overly sensitive, maybe it shouldn't have affected me so much, but it did. I can't even begin to imagine the fear of people who were actually in the same country, city as the attacks. I know for sure if I saw a plane flying low over New York City, or ANY city in the world, that I'd run for my life, regardless of how stupid I looked.
   
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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 29th 2009, 11:19 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGE View Post
Obama First mistake lol.
How was this Obama's mistake? He was furious over what happened.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
Surely the plane landing in the Hudson should make it more likely to jump to an idea like mechanical failure rather than terrorists?

Well I guess from a British perspective Americans (in general) are slightly over-emotional and dramatic about everything. That court case with J.K Rowling where the American defendant actually cried to which she replied "I really don't want to cry because I'm British, you know" seems to stick in my mind as an example of that. So obviously this will be sort of ethnocentric.

Well being over-dramatic in ways such as bringing up 9/11 at every concievable opportunity, all the hand wringing over something 8 years ago as if it happened yesterday (most countries would have moved on, even if only slightly), the tacky crying eagle posters and memorabilia, the constant replaying of it by the media, the wallowing in self pity, the constant excuses to American foreign policy being "yeah...well...9/11!!", the use of it by politicians to pass ridiculous laws curtailing rights etc. It all just seems to cheapen the actual event, just the feeling I get. It just seems as though America as a whole thinks that if they for one moment stop being outraged by 9/11, for even a second, then the terrorists win. It sort of seems like it's been, in a twisted sort of way, glorifyed; as if people just enjoy being upset about it.

I mean, 67 people from the UK died on 9/11 (and 329 from other countries) and barely anyone here even knows that, or would care if they knew and if they did then they wouldn't let it run their lives through fear. Yeah, I know it's not the same thing or scale but 9/11 did not only effect America.

Sure it was shocking, granted. But so were the London bombings, the IRA bombing campaign, the Bali bombings, the Madrid bombings and while not as many people died in those (though the IRA bombs were arguably worse 1,800 deaths + 6,000 British Army and 14,000 civilians injured.) people don't go crazy everytime they see a suspicious looking arab guy with a back-pack on a tube or an irish guy in a pub.

I'm probably going to be hated for this post but meh, I don't even really know what I'm trying to get at. There is a point here but I can't seem to articulate it properly. It just seems so wrong to be so touchy about it still. Though I guess it's more the media's fault than people in general. Sorry if I've offended anyone, it just seems like any other country would be past this by now. I understand how shocking it 9/11 is/was but it gets slightly exasperating how it's been allowed to effect people's way of life so badly despite people having more chance of being killed in their home or on the way to work than by terrorists. I wont take it personally if you get angry at me for this post, really, I understand it's still a sensitive topic, I just don't think it should be as sensitive as it is. Again, sorry. I can pretty much assume that I'll get some really angry people replying to this, but please bare in mind I really don't intend to piss you off.



They create the "presence of danger" in their minds. There was not actually any danger here, they only scared themselves due mainly to the exaggerated threat of terrorism by the media.

I'm not looking down on the scared people themselves, I'm looking down on the society which encourages such fear.

Ugh, rereading that I sound like an ignorant moron. I just can't phrase what I want to say, gah. Maybe: "I understand why it is/was upsetting however I don't quite understand the level to which it controls people's lives"? Hmm still not quite.
When somebody who witnessed 9/11 sees a 747 flying strikingly close to several skyscrapers, it seems pretty obvious why they'd be taken back, especially when it's not common for a jet of that size to be strolling around that part of the city at that altitude.

Mind you, I partially agree with your point that 9/11 has become the target for politicians, but to say American’s need to “chill out” when they see that is imprudent.

Last edited by ATP787; April 29th 2009 at 11:29 PM.
   
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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 30th 2009, 12:47 AM

First obama should have alerted all buildings of the planes flying by.


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Re: White House apologizes for low-flying plane of NYC - April 30th 2009, 01:13 AM

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First obama should have alerted all buildings of the planes flying by.
The flyover was ordered by the white house office of military affairs, and allowed by the FAA. Obama didn't know until you did. Or, that's what I've read.
   
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