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EU Referendum- In or Out? - April 15th 2016, 09:31 PM

Obviously the EU referendum is a really important issue at the moment, but it is so hard to decide which side to go. Can anyone sum up the arguments both for and against because I haven't been able to find a comprehensive comparison that makes the arguments really clear anywhere. Also love to hear your personal views!


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Re: EU Referendum- In or Out? - April 15th 2016, 09:51 PM

I think I will vote to stay in simply because if we become independant and we become a prime target for ISIS etc and they perform some awful terror attack on parts of the UK if we are in the EU we will still have the back up of like all the other countries in the EU plus saftey in numbers... I dont really understand it all either its like really confusing for me....



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Re: EU Referendum- In or Out? - April 16th 2016, 09:18 AM

Out. For many reasons. Ideological, and practical. Practical such as enhanced border control. Ideological such as decentralization of power from the EU block.

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Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: EU Referendum- In or Out? - April 16th 2016, 05:13 PM

I will be voting for us to leave. I'll try to keep this as brief as I can.

The UK spends approximately £15-£20 billion a per year on our EU membership fee. Sure some of it is given back via rebate and about £5 billion returned via EU spending, but personally I don't think it covers the cost.

Another thing is that, from what I recall, the EU has say over many of the laws in the UK. While we may have a PM, that means very little when entire countries all band together and dictate our laws for us. What's the point in having a PM if many laws we need are going to be given a big fat No by people who don't even live here?

Finally, people saying how this country won't survive on its own is a load of twaddle. This country has survived for hundreds if not thousands of years on its own. People have clearly lost faith in what makes Britain Great. I've seen so many people in the news saying how leaving will affect the economy and how jobs would be at risk. Of course it'll affect the economy and sure jobs will be at risk, but that's for maybe around 5-10 years, it's not going to be permanent, and quite frankly, if the country didn't have to spend that £15-20 billion a year on a membership fee, imagine what it could actually be used for.


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Re: EU Referendum- In or Out? - April 16th 2016, 05:43 PM

I'm voting to stay in. I'm actually kind of pissed that lots of the same arguments are being used as in the Scottish Independence Referendum, only the sides are reversed.
Honestly, the EU is the only thing stopping the Tories from doing whatever the fuck they want to this country. They have certain rules in place that say member countries need to have standards. So human rights, discrimination, wages, etc. If we leave the EU we are at the mercy of David Cameron because there isn't going to be anyone around to tell him no. If we were in a better position politically then I might be more willing to leave, but right now there is no way this can possibly be a good thing.
If we do leave, then the majority of Scotland is going to be royally pissed off because most of us want to stay, so if we're dragged out because England votes to leave, there's a good chance another independence debate will be started and we're just not ready for that yet. Not so soon after the last one.

If we can renegotiate on EVERY PARTY'S terms for membership I think it'd help. As in, all the leaders who have representation in Westminster sit down together and agree on a list of conditions or whatever, then I think that's the best outcome for us all. The UK stays in the EU, under our own rules depending on the outcome of negotiations, which leaves us with the protection of the EU and more autonomy to run the country.

I hope that all made sense, it's just my opinion on the whole thing. If you're going to disagree or debate then please explain simply, I'm not very good with politics.


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Re: EU Referendum- In or Out? - April 16th 2016, 07:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LlamaLlamaDuck View Post
Honestly, the EU is the only thing stopping the Tories from doing whatever the fuck they want to this country.
I generally respect your post, but that is just too wrong for me to ignore. The UK is a democracy, and probably has been one of the longest-lasting democracies on Earth in modern history. That's the biggest reason why Conservatives, and in fact nobody, can "do what they want" with impunity, in the UK. You could maybe say something like what you said, for some Eastern European countries, where many people still haven't quite figured out what "democracy" means, because they have only had it for 25 years since the USSR disintegrated. Yes, in some countries, the EU is the biggest force opposing localized corruption and abuse of power which had become essentially culturally normalized after generations of totalitarian rule.

Plus, I am more of the impression that high-profile conservative leaders generally prefer to stay in, but obviously I can't speak for them. Staying in the EU, generally favors the more wealthy. If you haven't noticed, it is most of all the "big guns" in the media, large business owners, execs, etc. who are opposing the EU exit.

A person's personal interests in politics often aren't obvious. David Cameron might have promised the referendum a few years ago, but that was more a response to the generally unsettled political climate after the financial crash. He promised the referendum to the public, to entice voters (and it worked). I wouldn't say it's a reflection on his personal feelings about the EU, although it's impossible to say. He's probably very well aware that Scotland is likely to start fidgeting again if the UK left the EU, and I don't think he wants that either.


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"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.



Last edited by BDF; April 16th 2016 at 07:38 PM.
   
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Re: EU Referendum- In or Out? - April 16th 2016, 07:03 PM

Even david cameron says its better to like stay in the EU from what I saw on the news the other day.....



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Re: EU Referendum- In or Out? - April 17th 2016, 04:12 PM

In. From where I stand it looks like a better financial option, plus I'm really not a fan of the Torie's 'british bill of rights' idea.


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Re: EU Referendum- In or Out? - April 18th 2016, 10:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by LlamaLlamaDuck View Post
If we leave the EU we are at the mercy of David Cameron because there isn't going to be anyone around to tell him no.
That's not entirely true.

If you think about it, it was the people of the UK who voted the Conservative party in not once, but twice.

You'll notice a lot of articles in the media lately about how leaving the EU will cause X problem and how it'll be like a 'stab in the dark' but couldn't that be applied to people voting for something else than the conservatives? Part of the reason why conservatives were voted in again is because people fear uncertainty, people are uncertain what the future holds should they vote for a different party and so again, they chose to 'stick with the devil they knew' rather than to vote for something else. Many people fear uncertainty and so they voted for something that was familiar to them rather than voting for something else.

Sure, there are die-hard conservative voters and sure that's one of the reasons why they were elected in a second time, but it's also the people mentioned above, and those who don't actually know what they're voting for or are unsure who to vote for but still want to vote so will go with the majority and I guarantee there will have been thousands of voters like this. If people did research into what each party's aims were, what they were about and what the differences were between them, there would be less 'blank firing' voters and more people who know what kind of government they want in power.

Unlike the EU leadership which is voted for internally, we get to choose who we want leading our country and we get to choose whether or not the conservatives remain in power in 2020 which if you think about it, isn't that far away.


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