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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
BDF Offline
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Skepticism vs. Being Obnoxious - October 30th 2016, 12:23 AM

I wondered if the following is better suited for the rants forum, but no. I want it here. It has everything to do with "debates".

Skepticism is generally a good thing. It means not taking things at face value. It means, dismissing your own potentially irrational intuitions, in favor of a more rational approach towards something. Usually, this basically means looking for evidence.

But don't be obnoxious asshole wasting people's time asking for evidence of self-explanatory things, and asking them to prove every statement they make, or otherwise accusing them of "lying". It's worse than dealing with a 5 year old child continuously asking tiresome questions like "why does it snow in winter", where every answer you give is followed by two more questions which increasingly digress from the original point.

Most people, me included, do not have the patience to deal with this shit in adults. It is a symptom of compete laziness in such a person, completely unwilling to do their own basic research by simply typing even a few keywords into google. Either that, or it is simply trolling, because most people understand how irritating it is to deal with someone like that, and some people get off on using this to piss others off.

Don't do it if you want to be taken seriously.

When someone for example makes an off-hand statement in an argument saying that "America is the wealthiest country on Earth", don't distract from the main point and derail the discussion by asking that person to "prove it". Educate yourself. Watch some youtube videos about economics, read a few news articles, etc. Stop expecting other people to do this for you and spoon feed you.

I mean really... FFS.

.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Skepticism vs. Being Obnoxious - October 30th 2016, 01:13 AM

I'm guilty of this because to me there seem to be a lot of really convoluted points of view, so I ask someone to simplify it for me.
   
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Re: Skepticism vs. Being Obnoxious - October 30th 2016, 01:29 AM

There's a difference between wanting to be "spoon fed" and expecting a person to be able to back up their claims. You can't just go around claiming stuff and then telling people to "look up" everything you say because you refuse to explain yourself. Don't get into arguments if you can't or won't provide evidence to base your points on.


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Re: Skepticism vs. Being Obnoxious - October 30th 2016, 01:40 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kate* View Post
There's a difference between wanting to be "spoon fed" and expecting a person to be able to back up their claims. You can't just go around claiming stuff and then telling people to "look up" everything you say because you refuse to explain yourself. Don't get into arguments if you can't or won't provide evidence to base your points on.
You're missing the main point here.

Some people quite deliberately use this cheap "strategy" in a debate to "stall" the main discussion with distractions which are entirely peripheral to the main point, by deliberately asking people to "prove" really quite self-explanatory things.

I can't respect something like that. Either we stay on topic, or don't bother. I'm not interested in a discussion where someone deliberately steers it away from a discussion about EU policy, to a discussion about Obamacare which I know absolutely nothing about, just so they can get "one-up" on me and sleep better at night. I prefer to cut to the chase, let them "win" in their minds, and save myself potentially hours of convoluted irrelevant questions.

I mean... what is the objective here? A sensible exchange of view-points? Or getting "one-up" on the other person? If someone is asking irritating questions which they (almost certainly) know the answers to themselves, simply to stall the discussion or "call your bluff", and they do it too much... it crosses a line where other people just lose their patience with this sort of nonsense. I certainly have a short fuse with these sorts of things. I don't like distractions, generally (not just in debates).

.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Skepticism vs. Being Obnoxious - October 30th 2016, 05:14 PM

I was just thinking back to this thread earlier today. There are several kinds of people you come across when "debating" anything. One of those, is the confrontational type. They are (among other things) characterized by asking you to "prove" really mundane things which you'd expect anyone who watches the news even just once a day during breakfast, to know.

And often when you provide them proof, they don't even fucking bother reading it. They just move onto their next topic and ask more annoying questions. This is pretty telling, in that: they are not actually interested at all in what you have to say. Or an equally irritating symptom of these people, is they dismiss your proof as either "right" or "left" wing propaganda. I suppose to them that means I have been completely debunked, and my job is done here, finished, goodbye.

Nonsense.

I mean, I know this to be true, because I had a lot of tabs open on my laptop once, and I posted the wrong link to an article. The person clearly didn't even bother to click on it, otherwise he would have noticed this.

I'm not interested in any discussions with imbeciles like that. The real frustration comes when I realize something like several hours into a discussion, that might have even taken several days... that I'm dealing with someone like this. I feel like I have entirely wasted all of that time.

Personally, if I ask someone to back up something they say with proof... I actually read what they have to say, and the content of their links. Provided they don't spam me with them. You know... everything within reason. I read what they have to say, even if I actually don't feel like reading it. I force myself to. I don't even do it out of "respect". I do it, because I simply cannot continue the conversation with another person, consciously knowing that I might be uninformed about something which they are informed about. In other words, I'm actually interested in their arguments/sources/points of views, and am willing to listen to them, instead of shouting over them with my own.

So yes, I actually read their sources. Hence, I'm not actually as motivated to call other people out on every detail of their arguments by asking for proof, because what it means is I have more work to read through all of it. Therefore, by logical extension of that, I assume that if someone asks me to provide "proof" of every single damn detail of my arguments, I cannot possibly believe that they are willing to make the effort to read all of my sources... and besides I've discovered this to be true most of the time anyway. So what precisely, the fuck, is the point of such pissing contests??? Why should I bother making the effort of finding "proof" and posting links? I might as well post links to mirror sites of piratebay searches with porn content, and half of these cretins probably wouldn't even notice it.



Another time I was arguing with this guy who claimed blacks are genetically inferior and posted a link to some scientific study on this. Yes, the study was genuine, professional, and quite complex. I had to spend an hour alone just to revise biology which I had learned years ago in school, to understand it. Yet, this "study" didn't have a single sentence implying anything about black people, anywhere, let alone any sort of genetic superiority or inferiority.

I'm guessing that noob didn't expect me to actually bother making the effort of reading it. And what's worse, something like 30 people actually "liked" his comment before I called him out on the bullshit. Too many people are far too stupid. And again, I don't want to make this about left or right wing. I have noticed similarly annoying trends on the left. People saying things that "migrants don't cause crime" (or something like it, the details don't matter in this case), despite being given links to statistics with quite clear correlations between certain crime rates, and migration numbers. No, they just dismiss this as "propaganda" (or something like it), and shift all the blame on other things like "white people", and of course again, won't listen to any counterarguments.

.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.



Last edited by BDF; October 30th 2016 at 05:44 PM.
   
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