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Angela Merkel wants to ban the Burka - December 6th 2016, 02:37 PM

Well isn't this ironic?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ng-U-turn.html

People who follow the news, will know that Angela Merkel was generally very supportive of migrants, multiculturalism, and all the rest of it.

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Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Angela Merkel wants to ban the Burka - December 6th 2016, 09:22 PM

well I don't mean to sound like a ass but I sorta think it should be it hides one face so they can do all kinds of shit and not have to worry about being identified I mean would you be okay if people ran around wearing clown mask ?

not to mention how it oppresses woman
   
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Re: Angela Merkel wants to ban the Burka - December 6th 2016, 09:54 PM

I think the article is very interesting. She makes valid points. It covers the entire face but the eyes, that is hard to identify someone. Airports, hospitals, schools, or other service(s) that requires you to identify yourself to match your photo I.D. It's problematic because they would need to take it off to match their photo I.D.

It's also a culture they follow where it's common for them. In countries where everyone is used to having appearance showing, no covering the face.

I would debate around confirming their identity.

I've been at a medical office where a lady wore a burka and I remember asking myself, how the health professionals know for sure that it's the person on the health card. (Ontario we have Photo Health Cards with information on the card). Then I was at the hospital and saw the same thing, wondered the same thing.

The burka is a culture norm for them. There's a whole culture around it.

The article pointed out good concerns. I am wondering if the ban will go ahead and happen.


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Re: Angela Merkel wants to ban the Burka - December 7th 2016, 02:04 PM

The point of this thread was not mainly about the Burka itself, but Merkel completely changing her platform since 2 years ago. I paid a lot of attention to her a while ago, and have made up my mind that she's an ideologue. I'm generally distrustful of ideologues, especially ones with a strong negativity bias, and I really do think she even has some form of self-hatred for her own country. This video clip hit social media a while ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Rcc7xgD2dM. To some people who do not generally feel a strong sense of patriotism, this may not seem like a big deal (I'm one of those people actually). But to many people... to see a German head of state tossing their flag aside that way is positively offensive, and I can understand that.

With all that said, you would not hear Merkel say something like "ban the Burka" 2 years ago, even if you put a gun to her head. The recent trends in European politics, have shown a massive increase in the popularity of the right-wing. I think Merkel is trying to accommodate / compromise with that now, and the original article I posted proves this.

On the one hand, I think she has screwed up enough. On the other, things could be a lot worse... and I do not necessarily trust a right-wing party (AfD - Alternative for Germany) to generally act any better.


Now, about the Burka itself:

I think it's in the self-interest of Muslims to not wear it. I've made posts about this before: http://www.teenhelp.org/forums/f38-c...8-burkini-ban/

And I'll just pull out a quote of myself (with some small edits), to save people the trouble of looking for it:

Quote:
Communication between people builds trust. Lack of communication builds distrust. 20% of communication is verbal, 80% non-verbal (body language). The Burka covers up pretty much all of the body, that is, 80% of communication. Additionally, the remaining 20% is not much good either if in many cases they can't even speak the native language. These are not statistics I've made up for my convenience (I've been accused of this), but estimates based of psychology research.

The distrust towards Muslims wearing the Burka is based off that. And other controversies surrounding Islam, such as terrorism, only compound that effect.

Animals experience the same distrust and aggression when their owners do something stupid like put on a mask. Like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KIKrSG-Xzc

Lots more examples like that, with animals, with people. People wearing dark sunglasses are interpreted as less trustworthy on average.

I don't think banning Burkas or any of these things in public places is the way forward (I think it undermines certain fundamental freedoms), but people should stop causing outrage when someone chooses to criticize Burkas, or ban them during certain events or in places like private restaurants or shops, similar to how hoodies were banned in British shopping malls (although I recognize the motive was different behind that). People should be free to make their own rules, in their own privately owned space, without fear of getting bullied for it.
Unfortunately, I've not been able to find any news articles to back up any of what I've just said. What I've said is really based on non-verbal communication... which people can just search for in google if they're interested. Here's one link: https://www.psychologistworld.com/bodylanguage/

Information on this topic doesn't appear to be as well organized on the internet as I expected though.

.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Angela Merkel wants to ban the Burka - December 8th 2016, 01:15 AM

See, I'm strongly AGAINST banning religious wear.

I don't like the idea of a nanny-state telling people what is and is not oppressive to them.

Women's rights should be about increasing the freedoms of women, not limiting them.

If anything, I think there should be a goal to achieve a society where women feel free, safe, and comfortable to make choices regarding religious wear.
   
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Re: Angela Merkel wants to ban the Burka - December 8th 2016, 02:06 AM

Too little too late, it's ridiculous if she thinks she'll gain any votes for this.
   
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Re: Angela Merkel wants to ban the Burka - December 8th 2016, 02:22 AM

I'm against banning any type of clothing choice, except for public nudity. And even that, I don't really care about.


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Re: Angela Merkel wants to ban the Burka - December 8th 2016, 07:07 AM

Merkel is just damage controlling in my view, she says she'll deport 100.000 migrants.

She used to do a good job, but now she's doing a shit job in my view. If globalization continues with the EU and they let more and more migrants in undocumented, we will most probably have even more ISIS insiders with those refugees and then we have more bombings, rape cases and terrorist attacks. Something those EU apologists refuse to recognize. I would say let migrants come in when radical islamic terrorism is low, but extreme big brother style vetting for migrants for the time being isn't too far off either


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Re: Angela Merkel wants to ban the Burka - December 8th 2016, 11:51 AM

I apologize I missed what you meant in your Original Post, BDF. I wasn't aware she wasn't okay with it 2 years ago and that she has changed now. Not to go off topic for a bit, do you think there is a reason behind this that she isn't telling others about? People do change there views on things and then their values may switch where others may not be aware of or start asking questions as to why she changed.

I don't see it as odd but I think she needs to give an explanation as to why, if she hasn't already done so. Do you think this has to do anything with Trump winning?


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Re: Angela Merkel wants to ban the Burka - December 8th 2016, 02:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by WretatsyRemedial View Post
I apologize I missed what you meant in your Original Post, BDF. I wasn't aware she wasn't okay with it 2 years ago and that she has changed now. Not to go off topic for a bit, do you think there is a reason behind this that she isn't telling others about? People do change there views on things and then their values may switch where others may not be aware of or start asking questions as to why she changed.

I don't see it as odd but I think she needs to give an explanation as to why, if she hasn't already done so. Do you think this has to do anything with Trump winning?
lol I don't mind if the discussion strays a little. I was ambiguous about the precise purpose of this thread in the first place.

I have a general distrust towards politicians. Reasons for that are simple, that the political class has been shown to be infiltrated by psychopathic personality traits at a 5x greater proportion than the average population. This makes me question those people's motive far more than I would do to average people.

Also, she's over 60 years old. People tend not to change their views much at that age. I've seen it happen, but it's less frequent than in younger people. So I think this further decreases the odds of her genuinely changing her mind on the subject.

Plus (and this is just my opinion)... I think Merkel is more of an ideologue. That is in contrast to Hilary Clinton who I think is more pragmatic instead. Pragmatists will often appear to change their "opinion" all the time (unless they are discreet about it for fear of getting called a fraud), because they arguably don't even have one in the first place (arguably). I could go on about that, but it's tangential to the main point here. There were numerous examples of Hilary Clinton drastically changing her "opinion" on some topics during the election. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2lSHpDZXN0

Ideologues in contrast usually have very strong opinions which aren't swayed easily. I haven't seen Merkel show the same kind of wavering as Clinton, until now. My guess is it was under the influence of her party. I guess they realized that if they want to stay in power, they have to change their message, or else they risk losing everything (like the Democrats in America lost the presidency, congress, senate, and supreme court). But like I said, it's just my opinion. There's too little information for me to really go on to accurately pass such personal judgements on these people. It's really just a hunch.

I think Merkel's change in policy has a lot to do with Trump winning, because like I said, the Democrats in America have lost the presidency, congress, senate, etc. Everything. The UK's vote to leave the EU wasn't enough to change the mind of the establishment, but now I get the impression that the establishment is taking the right-wing more seriously and are willing to actually listen to their concerns (or at least pretend to), and might be willing to compromise on some things... or otherwise risk getting wiped out entirely (because that seems to be the current trend). Which is what we need. People need to start listening to the other side more, instead of just shouting over them. People look to role models and leadership for examples of this, and the leadership are the politicians. So even if Merkel is just playing political football and doesn't mean what she says, this change hopefully gets ordinary people to have more sensible conversations about these things again.

.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.



Last edited by BDF; December 8th 2016 at 03:38 PM.
   
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Re: Angela Merkel wants to ban the Burka - December 8th 2016, 03:01 PM

Here is an analysis on the topic by someone called Lauren Southern, on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmoZeL-juX8

.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Angela Merkel wants to ban the Burka - December 13th 2016, 09:01 PM

Well, I hope I didn't misunderstand anything, but to me the article seems to say, that Merkel called for the burka ban now, which is wrong.
They have been discussing it since the beginning of the year, it was all over the news a few times. Apparently Merkel just never said anything about it and now she did, though it's not that big of a deal as they make it out to be.
There's a law here, that forbiddes people to cover their face in public, especially schools, hospitals and stuff, so it actually makes sense.
And I don't think it has anything to do with Trump winning. It's been a topic for a while now, even before anyone thought Trump was something to worry about.
The only thing I could think of is, that she said it, to collect the support of those people, that are leaning towards the right wing, but don't exactly are there.

Not sure, if I made any sense, I usually stay out of political discussions


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