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Man Beheaded Passenger - February 13th 2017, 06:53 PM

This thread has been labeled as triggering by the original poster or by a Moderator. Please take this into consideration before continuing to read.

A lot of us Canadians, and possibly people from other countries will remember one of the top stories from 2008.

In a nutshell

There was a man who was riding on a Greyhound bus, ended up stabbing, beheading, and partially cannibalizing a 22-year-old man.

Last week he was found Not Criminally Responsible because he has been suffering from untreated schizophrenia.

In my opinion, a mental disorder shouldn't matter when it comes to murder. I have a severe mental illness as well, and if I was to create a crime I would take what I deserve

Here's the story

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manito...arge-1.3977278

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Re: Man Beheaded Passenger - February 13th 2017, 08:07 PM

A lot of people are really upset that this man is not in jail now. I am not sure but they should ban this guy on all Greyhound, Via Rail, and Planes for the safety of others and their comfort. I have no idea if that would happen or is happening.

I remember when I was a teenager I was next door to someone who, it was rumoured, they murdered their S.O and they had to stay at the hospital's psychiatrist floor. Then, I heard them talking about finding a home for them or something.

Someone can't always live forever in a hospital due to mental health but they should be monitored or watched closely regardless.

I would imagine people are now afraid to take Greyhound because of it. I would too.

He should be banned to take Greyhound.


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Re: Man Beheaded Passenger - February 13th 2017, 08:41 PM

In the United States, I believe you can plead insanity and be put permanently in an institution. I don't know about Canada, but that's the way it works here. But Britt said the guy "supposedly" had schizophrenia and hadn't been properly diagnosed. So that leads me to wonder if he even had schizophrenia or any form of mental disorder to begin with? Either way, he should be put away for the safety of other, either permanently in an institution or jail for life.
   
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Re: Man Beheaded Passenger - February 13th 2017, 08:42 PM

Should've been thrown in the slammer

Wouldn't forgive myself if I did some crap like that


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Re: Man Beheaded Passenger - February 13th 2017, 08:45 PM

He got an absolute discharge? Are you kidding me? That guy shouldnt be in a jail cell in my opinion, but he definitely should be in a padded room in a psych ward. For a long-ass time.
Also, not all mental handicaps are equal in severity or what they do/cause people to do. I imagine yours isn't the type that would drive you to do something like this guy did. Even if you both had schizophrenia, his schizophrenia might have a far different effect on him than yours does on you (assuming you have schizophrenia). And you don't want him around other prisoners, it could bring chaos from both sides.


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Re: Man Beheaded Passenger - February 13th 2017, 08:57 PM

Just to point out, he was found not criminally responsible in 2009 and has spent the last 7 years in treatment. He was granted absolute discharge which means he's free. A year ago he was allowed to live independently but to follow rules (check he's taking his medication, attend counselling, ect).

In 1999, the Supreme Court of Canada ruled that a person must be given absolute discharge if that person does not pose a significant threat to society and based on reports I had read/what was discussed in my classes that said he was progressing well, it was only a matter of time that would be granted this.

A person is not found Not Criminally Responsible just because they are suffering from a mental illness at the time of the crime. The defence has to prove:
A) They did not have the capacity to appreciate their actions
B) Know right from wrong at the time of the offence
C) If they were not in control of their behaviour because of their mental illness

It is actually challenging to be found not criminally responsible. From 2005/2006 to 2011/2012, there were 1,908 cases of NCRMD out of a total of 2,262,395 cases in Canada during that period. NCRMD represented less than 1% of adult criminal court cases processed annually (252-292 cases a year) and this has remained stable.

You can click the spoiler to see the breakdown of types of offences. You can also read more about it here.

Spoiler:


If the individual is found not criminally responsible it means they are not acquitted or found guilty but rather, either the courts or a review board has to make a disposition (absolute discharge, conditional discharge, or detention in a hospital).
It's also important to note, that recent studies show that three years after an NCR verdict about 10% of those people had reoffended and to 40% from the general penal system.


My thoughts though? I would have preferred that he be allowed to live independently but be monitored to ensure he was taking his medication but the law says that if they are not a significant risk, then they have to receive absolute discharge.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Wanderlust. View Post
But Britt said the guy "supposedly" had schizophrenia and hadn't been properly diagnosed. So that leads me to wonder if he even had schizophrenia or any form of mental disorder to begin with?
He was not diagnosed as schizophrenic before the attack. Two psychiatrists testified that he was suffering from schizophrenia.
Quote:
Two Dr. Jonathan Rootenberg said Li was psychotic and was in no state to tell the difference between right and wrong.
"The attack was sudden and came as Li caught a glimpse of the sunlight and heard God's voice telling him that McLean was a threat," Rootenberg testified. "The voice said, `Do it now ... If you don't, he's going to kill you.'"




Last edited by Lexify.; February 14th 2017 at 07:21 AM.
   
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Re: Man Beheaded Passenger - February 19th 2017, 08:45 PM

Depends on the mental illness, the severity of it, and whether or not the person is actively pursuing help and following the guidelines prescribed by the professional/doctor. Just because you have a severe mental illness doesn't mean you identify with this person psychologically and are therefore more informed to make a decision on what his judgment should be. I have diagnosed major depressive disorder. This doesn't mean that I am fit to judge all people with major depressive disorders as there are a series of factors that should be taken into consideration. Hence why this should be left to the professionals, not the public.


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Re: Man Beheaded Passenger - February 20th 2017, 12:17 AM

Regardless, I feel like a beheading is kind of a "one strike, you're out" kinda thing... This guy shouldn't be back in society.


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Re: Man Beheaded Passenger - February 20th 2017, 08:49 AM

Hi Brittany,

I agree with you.

I could hardly believe it when I read that he is now a free man. He's not even being supervised. He is as free as you and me. It's an absolute disgrace. Did you know that one of the RCMP officers who was at the scene committed suicide? It was such a horrific 'thing' to experience. The officer never got over it.

Here's a photo of the victim - Tim McLean.



   
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Re: Man Beheaded Passenger - February 20th 2017, 12:01 PM

Canada has rules about this. It's not quite the same as the US where if you're declared insane you can go away forever but to a psychiatric place vs a prison. In Canada you can't be shut away forever if the cause of your crime (schizophrenia in this case) can be "cured" enough to be able to function. This guy was actually being allowed to go to town for increasing amounts of time, supervised and unsupervised, and then allowed to stay in town but supervised for a while before he was finally aqutted. I'm sure he's still got to be supervised by a doctor and psychiatrist and that, given his history, if he just stops talking to his medical team, they'll track him down pretty damn wuickly, but these people just won't be like, for criminals, they'll be regular medical people now. I'm not for or against his release; I'm more of the opinion that given the facts, there's a pretty high chance that he'll be fine now and that I'd like to ope for the best, even considering the magnitude of his very serious but very delusion based crimes.




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