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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
BDF Offline
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"Normalizing Hatred" & PewDiePie - February 20th 2017, 04:35 PM

Ok, I want to address the argument on "normalizing hatred", because it is used extremely frequently, almost entirely by people on the left side of politics (from my experience). And it is a completely useless argument.

So I'll give an example just to set a context. This post has been provoked by the recent Wall Street Journal's attack on PewDiePie, although there have been so many other similar cases before this. I don't watch his videos, never did (not to my taste). He is by far the largest independent creator on YouTube. He got attacked because 3 journalists went through about 10 years worth of his YouTube videos, to find less than 10 instances of antisemitic jokes. Literally, these so called "journalists" even took a freeze-frame of him pointing at something, and accused him of doing a NAZI salute. Then the rest of the mainstream media followed suit, and tried to crucify him, got some of his sponsorship deals cancelled, etc.

There's plenty of information about what happened online, even on his own channel.

This was totally overblown, but, a website called the "Daily Stormer" (an actual far right, white supremacist website), stated on their main page that they are PewDiePie's no.1 fan site on the internet. They claimed the reason for this was because PewDiePie was normalizing their politics. Ok, so they actually stated that, which people rarely do as directly as this. But even that doesn't change the fact, that this argument is objectively useless, and other people attacking PewDiePie for "normalizing hatred" is cretinous. This would be very different if PewDiePie were to say that he supports the Daily Stormer, but he did not do that. The Daily Stormer supporting PewDiePie, is not PewDiePie's fault.

Saying things like that "PewDiePie is normalizing right-wing extremism", is the same as saying that "liberals are normalizing left-wing extremism and violent riots", or that "Muslims are normalizing Islamic terrorism". If it is not, then explain to me how it is not.


It means nothing. Just because two groups of people share some similar values, does not fucking make them the same, and it doesn't make one group accountable for the actions or words of another. If I were to kill someone, then "like" another person's post on Facebook, it doesn't make that other person in any way responsible or answerable for my crime. Same way that PewDiePie making a few Jewish jokes, doesn't equate him with Hitler nor make him answerable for Hitler's crimes. This shouldn't even need to be said.

This is also similar to how I don't think most self-confessed communists, actually approve of Stalin killing tens of millions of people. As much as I dislike communist ideology, I cannot accuse communists today of "normalizing mass homicide" this way. Or in fact, I can, but it means nothing, because today's communists aren't to blame for things that happened nearly 100 years ago.

All that said, I've made some mistakes myself by making wrong generalizations. After PewDiePie got attacked by the mainstream press, I am near 100% certain that most people who consider themselves "left wing", do not support these sorts of witch hunts anymore (those who do support them can go fuck themselves, as even he himself said). PewDiePie has a wide audience, some right, some left wing, because his videos are not generally political. Pretty much most of them, don't give a shit about occasional Jewish jokes, or any other jokes he probably made. I don't think that the mainstream media represents the left wing anymore. They certainly don't represent the right wing.

They represent almost no one at this stage. They won't survive long this way, and unless the left-wing establishes a stronger foothold in alternative media, the right wing will monopolize it. Monopolies are generally a bad thing.

Some useful links on this topic:
________________________________________

This is also the right place to say, that calling people "NAZIs" for apparently "normalizing hatred" (by for example making Jewish jokes) is wrong. This is obvious, but I want to point out another example:

Fake News NAZI Hunters

This sort of behavior is frankly fucking disgusting. Anyone who does this or supports this, deserves the same treatment which they dish out, and I'll say exactly what I mean by that.

Numerous people accused of being "NAZIs" or "far-right extremists", or accused of "normalizing hatred" have been harassed, heckled, and even physically assaulted, regardless of them actually being NAZIs or not.

What this literally means, is that if someone doesn't "like" you, they can take a photo of you pointing at a signpost, accuse you of doing a NAZI salute, get 10 of their friends to do the same... and it's not at all unlikely that it could end with you getting sucker punched by some lunatic in the street. This holds especially true for public figures, reporters, independent journalists, etc. It probably would not happen to me, because these sorts of character assassinations tend to target public figures, activists or journalists.

.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: "Normalizing Hatred" & PewDiePie - February 20th 2017, 05:03 PM

I hate to sidetrack this like I always do, but I wanted to work off one of the points.
I don't really have time right now to watch the videos, but I had a thought on the Daily Stormer being Pewdiepie's "#1 fan". I have a theory that when white nationalists endorse something that's mainstream or on the left, it is actually an attempt to undermine them. For example, this week David Duke (the former grandwizard of the KKK) endorsed Keith Ellison to be the chairman of the Democratic National Committee. Especially with the DNC (because their only politics nowadays tend to be identity politics), that endorsement is absolutely toxic and is more of a setback. And when you think about it, there's no logical reason David Duke would endorse a black Muslim to a position of power. He just spent eight years complaining about our black "Muslim" president. His only case for plausible deniability is that Ellison isn't willing to give Israel everything they want. He wants a two-state solution for Israel and Palestine. Also, A white supremacist (in California, I believe) tried to endorse Hillary Clinton during the election. No white supremacist in their right mind would ever endorse her.
For whatever reason, I think the Daily Stormer might be trying to fuck with Pewdiepie. They know everyone hates them and that any endorsement they make of anyone automatically discredits them.
On the other hand, I've never actually watched Pewdiepie, so I wouldn't know why they would do that.


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Re: "Normalizing Hatred" & PewDiePie - February 20th 2017, 07:04 PM

Hi BDF,

All I have to say to you in response is this....

NAZI !

Just kidding!

In fact - I would be happy to sign my name to what you wrote. I couldn't agree with you more if I tried!! It's nice to know that there are still people in this world who take a few steps back so they can see the BIG picture. I think most people who are incredibly upset by what someone has said or done - couldn't tell you what was said or done.

Craig!
   
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Re: "Normalizing Hatred" & PewDiePie - February 21st 2017, 12:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichWolverineFreak View Post
I don't really have time right now to watch the videos, but I had a thought on the Daily Stormer being Pewdiepie's "#1 fan". I have a theory that when white nationalists endorse something that's mainstream or on the left, it is actually an attempt to undermine them.
The same has occurred to me before. It is in fact even mentioned in one of the links, that the Daily Stormer was "trolling" PewDiePie. Now they say that they are the #1 fan site of the Wall Street Journal instead. Credit where it's due, they have a sense of humor.

A lot of strange counter-intuitive things are going on right now. I'm not entirely sure why the Wall Street Journal thought they were going to "win" this in any way. And things like this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0G8mvB534M) make me think that some of these people are deliberately trying to publicly humiliate themselves.


Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadaCraig View Post
Hi BDF,

All I have to say to you in response is this....

NAZI !

Just kidding!

In fact - I would be happy to sign my name to what you wrote. I couldn't agree with you more if I tried!! It's nice to know that there are still people in this world who take a few steps back so they can see the BIG picture. I think most people who are incredibly upset by what someone has said or done - couldn't tell you what was said or done.

Craig!
Thanks. Perhaps it's worth saying that developing this sort of critical thinking takes time, quite a lot of it, which some people don't necessarily have (although I think it's almost always a matter of priorities).

I think for most people, it feels "comfortable" to get set in just one way of thinking, and when they're confronted with information that is inconsistent with their ideology, they either ignore it, or attack it.

When I was younger in school, I was always that nuisance kid who would ask too many questions. Even in university I managed to annoy some lecturers, so I think this still holds true today for me. When I cross something that is inconsistent with my current understanding of whatever things, I sometimes spend far too much time trying to understand it. Often means retracing my steps and reevaluating all sorts of wrong assumptions I made.

Most people do this to some extent, but I think it's almost pathological in my case. I sometimes can't even go to sleep until I straighten these things out in my own head.

.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: "Normalizing Hatred" & PewDiePie - February 21st 2017, 09:29 AM

Another link on the topic to supplement BDF's original post, this time commentary from Roaming Millennial

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56ye3ccWswU


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