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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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House Republicans Pull AHCA - March 25th 2017, 01:37 AM

Good news! House Republicans pulled their crappy replacement of the ACA. And you know it's a bad one when 36 Republicans voiced their opposition of the bill when only 21 were needed to end it. Why is this a good thing?
  • 24 million people get to keep their health care (for now)
  • Mental health services are saved
  • Those tax credits were a joke
etc.

I'm not exactly holding my breath for their next shot because I'm not expecting it to be any better, but we're saved the headache for now.




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Re: House Republicans Pull AHCA - March 25th 2017, 02:59 AM

Ceeeeeeeeeleeeeeebraaaaaaaaate
I mean, Obamacare isn't that great in my opinion because it still leaves too much power for the insurance companies, but its way better than the pile of shit that the GOP came up with. That was more of a tax break for the rich than a healthcare plan.
I thought it was hilarious that the most conservative members of the GOP thought Trump and Ryan's bill didn't go far enough. Are they crazy? They were calling it "Obamacare Lite". They actually think they can pass a healthcare bill thats even worse than that (but better in their opinion). What a bunch of dumbasses. Passing the GOP bill as it was would have been political suicide, so imagine a bill thats even worse for the people.


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Re: House Republicans Pull AHCA - March 25th 2017, 03:20 AM

I'm not kidding. i now have some hope for the world.
I really hope this keeps happening and Trump can't do some crazy shit


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Re: House Republicans Pull AHCA - March 25th 2017, 03:28 AM

Hallelujah. I was about to have my Medicaid essentially ripped out from under me while requiring multiple daily medications and about to add another plus a therapist, with no income despite (yes I'm actually trying) to find a job. Hopefully we'll only have to make it to January of 2021 then he'll be gone.


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Re: House Republicans Pull AHCA - March 25th 2017, 04:35 AM

"We're gonna win so much, you're gonna get sick of it!"
-A Loser


Wish I lived in Canada. UPDATE, NOV. 9th, 2016: This statement has become even more appropriate.
I vow that I will attack this endeavor with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind. Jim Harbaugh

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  (#6 (permalink)) Old
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Re: House Republicans Pull AHCA - March 25th 2017, 11:05 PM

RIP Ryancare

Now if Trump will listen to Rand...


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Re: House Republicans Pull AHCA - March 26th 2017, 01:11 AM

Ha, Congress coming in clutch! Guess even the repubs aren't all with him.


Let it come and let it be...

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Re: House Republicans Pull AHCA - March 26th 2017, 02:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jordioa18 View Post
RIP Ryancare

Now if Trump will listen to Rand...
Are you referring to Rand Paul's healthcare plan? Do you know what it is?


Wish I lived in Canada. UPDATE, NOV. 9th, 2016: This statement has become even more appropriate.
I vow that I will attack this endeavor with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind. Jim Harbaugh

"Being an adult sucks. The only positives are weed, sex, and cars, and I have none of those right now." -Me

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  (#9 (permalink)) Old
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Re: House Republicans Pull AHCA - March 26th 2017, 08:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MWF View Post
Are you referring to Rand Paul's healthcare plan? Do you know what it is?
Yes, this is a summary of Rand's plan: (Link/source: https://www.paul.senate.gov/news/pre...eplacement-act A link to his full bill is in there too)

Legalizes Inexpensive Insurance Plans:
  • Ensures that Americans can purchase the health insurance coverage that best fits their needs.
  • Eliminates Obamacare’s essential health benefits requirement, along with other restrictive coverage and plan requirements, to once again make low-cost insurance options available to American consumers.
Protects Individuals with Pre-Existing Conditions:
  • Provides a two-year open-enrollment period under which individuals with pre-existing conditions can obtain coverage.
  • Restores HIPAA pre-existing conditions protections. Prior to Obamacare, HIPAA guaranteed that those in the group market could obtain continuous health coverage regardless of preexisting conditions.
Helps More People Save To Buy Health Insurance and Cover Medical Costs:
  • Incentivizes savings by authorizing a tax credit (up to $5,000 per taxpayer) for individuals and families that contribute to HSAs.
  • Removes the annual cap on HSAs so individuals can make unlimited contributions.
  • Allows HSA funds to be used to purchase insurance, cover premiums, and more easily afford a broader range of health-related expenses, including prescription and OTC drugs, dietary supplements, nutrition and physical exercise expenses, and direct primary care, among others.
Guarantees Fair Tax Treatment of Health Insurance:
  • Equalizes the tax treatment of the purchase of health insurance for individuals and employers by allowing individuals to deduct the cost of their health insurance from their income and payroll taxes.
  • Frees more Americans to purchase and maintain insurance apart from their work status.
  • Does not interfere with employer-provided coverage for Americans who prefer those plans.
Helps Individuals Join Together to Purchase Insurance:
  • Expands Association Health Plans (AHPs) to allow small business owners and individuals to band together across state lines through their membership in a trade or professional association to purchase health coverage for their families and employees at a lower cost.
  • Also allows individuals to pool together through any organization to purchase insurance.
  • Widens access to the group market and spreads out the risk, enhancing the ability of individuals and small businesses to decrease costs, increase administrative efficiencies, and further protect those with pre-existing conditions.
Allows the Purchase of Insurance Across State Lines:
  • Creates an interstate market that allows insurers who are licensed to sell policies in one state to offer them to residents of any other state.
Increases State Medicaid Flexibility:
  • Enables states to fully exercise current flexibilities afforded to them through Medicaid waivers for creating innovative state plan designs.
Empowers Physicians:
  • Allows non-economically aligned physicians to negotiate for higher quality health care for their patients.
  • Amends the Internal Revenue Code to allow a physician a tax deduction equal to the amount such physician would otherwise charge for charity medical care or uncompensated care due to bad debt, limited to 10% of a physician’s gross income for the taxable year.
BTW, Trump supporters hated Paul Ryan's repeal bill too and called it Ryancare. Trump was pushing Ryancare like Vince McMahon is pushing Roman Reigns (For the people who don't get that, I'm sorry) which gives me the feeling that Trump is using reverse psychology on Ryan, but I'm a Trump supporter myself (If I had to choose sides between him and Hill at least)


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MWF Offline
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Re: House Republicans Pull AHCA - March 26th 2017, 10:22 PM

The reason I asked is because when I was referring to a worse healthcare plan than Paul Ryan's, I was referring to Rand Paul's plan or a simple repeal without replacement. It's inherently worse because the free market is simply incompatible with healthcare; when you leave private health insurers in charge, they can price gouge anyone and everyone, and that's the point, they just want to make money. They already did that anyway, we already had free market healthcare before Obamacare and it wasn't working because of the gross profit incentive. The incentive was to get low-risk, healthy people to pay to be on a plan, and people with pre-existing conditions were denied coverage because the insurers didn't want to pay more to cover them. They also offered a 'variety' of healthcare plans that varied in price. There's no reason to offer any plan besides "sick ---> help". Any plan less than that, like 'disaster insurance', is super cheap and only helps in events like car accidents. A free market healthcare system incentivizes you to get cheap, terrible healthcare if you can't afford better healthcare. In my opinion (and I feel like this would probably be almost universal), that's morally bankrupt. Its not like your buying something like a car where you can upgrade based on your preferences. But say I had cancer, I would PREFER to get a healthcare plan that cures the cancer, but if its outside my price range... then I die. That shouldnt happen in a country that has money oozing out the eyeballs of the wealthy.
The reason I bring that up is because Rand Paul is a libertarian who thinks free-market capitalism solves every economic problem. His plan is more free-market, and like I just said, its more prone to the failures that we already experienced with a free market system. Just a side-note, I actually kind of like Rand Paul, he's right on a lot of issues like drugs, war, surveillance, gay marriage, etc. However, his economics are a proven failure.
Here's my issues with his plan, and I'll just go by category:

Legalizes inexpensive insurance plans
Inexpensive insurance plans screw the poor, that's the disaster insurance I was referring to that doesn't even cover illnesses. Suddenly poor people won't be able to afford any plan worth having. There's only one morally justifiable healthcare plan that the wealthiest empire the world has ever seen should have, and that is "sick ---> help". So Medicare, except for everyone.

Protects individuals with pre-existing conditions
This one is a little misleading because you would think based off his description that Obamacare didn't do that. Obamacare makes sure that you can't discriminate based off of pre-existing conditions, and there's no time limit.

Helps more people save to buy health insurance and cover medical costs
With a single-payer healthcare plan, there's no reason to save because the money comes right out of your taxes. The problem with this is twofold. One, it says UP TO $5000 dollar tax credit, which might mean only the rich get the highest amount, $5000 (granted I don't know that for sure) but the other problem is what if you still can't pay for a plan? One of the most common criticisms for this idea is that old people would be at a giant disadvantage because their healthcare costs might still be out of range for them to pay for. Especially with the knowledge that people are getting a tax credit, the insurance company would jack up the price because they know they can get the tax money plus out of pocket money (this part is an assumption though).

Guarantees Fair Tax Treatment of Healthcare Insurance
There's no reason to have this. If everybody is instead taxed for healthcare, they don't have to pay for increasingly high healthcare premiums that they would when private health insurers are left to their own devices. The prices balance out in favor of the patient if they are paying a tax. The rich, however, would pay more, and I have no problem with that when they are making more money than they could ever need or even spend.

Helps individuals join together to purchase insurance
In a single-payer system, you don't need to pool together and buy anything. You're all set.

Allows the purchase of insurance across state lines
The whole "crossing state lines to buy insurance" thing is just a way to help insurance companies cut costs. They'll all just flock to states like Kansas and Mississippi where the taxes are incredibly low and the regulations are nonexistent.

Increases state Medicaid flexibility
Allows states to make more Medicaid cuts even though Medicare and Medicaid work very well already.

Empowers physicians
I don't really know for this one. I would assume that a lot of the doctors would use this to increase their paycheck, though.

You're from the Netherlands right? What problems do you have with your healthcare system? They and other healthcare systems like their own are consistently ranked higher than ours with the complete opposite of a free-market system. I don't know what problems you might have with the Dutch system, but is it not working for you? Im asking because I would expect you to take a look at a system thats working by almost every metric and then say, "hey, you guys should try this."

*important caveat though, I don't support taxpayer money going toward elective procedures like nose jobs and other nonsense like that.


Wish I lived in Canada. UPDATE, NOV. 9th, 2016: This statement has become even more appropriate.
I vow that I will attack this endeavor with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind. Jim Harbaugh

"Being an adult sucks. The only positives are weed, sex, and cars, and I have none of those right now." -Me

"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hatred cannot drive out hatred; only love can do that." -Martin Luther King Jr.

Last edited by MWF; March 26th 2017 at 10:41 PM.
   
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Re: House Republicans Pull AHCA - March 27th 2017, 03:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by MWF View Post
The reason I asked is because when I was referring to a worse healthcare plan than Paul Ryan's, I was referring to Rand Paul's plan or a simple repeal without replacement. It's inherently worse because the free market is simply incompatible with healthcare; when you leave private health insurers in charge, they can price gouge anyone and everyone, and that's the point, they just want to make money. They already did that anyway, we already had free market healthcare before Obamacare and it wasn't working because of the gross profit incentive. The incentive was to get low-risk, healthy people to pay to be on a plan, and people with pre-existing conditions were denied coverage because the insurers didn't want to pay more to cover them. They also offered a 'variety' of healthcare plans that varied in price. There's no reason to offer any plan besides "sick ---> help". Any plan less than that, like 'disaster insurance', is super cheap and only helps in events like car accidents. A free market healthcare system incentivizes you to get cheap, terrible healthcare if you can't afford better healthcare. In my opinion (and I feel like this would probably be almost universal), that's morally bankrupt. Its not like your buying something like a car where you can upgrade based on your preferences. But say I had cancer, I would PREFER to get a healthcare plan that cures the cancer, but if its outside my price range... then I die. That shouldnt happen in a country that has money oozing out the eyeballs of the wealthy.
The reason I bring that up is because Rand Paul is a libertarian who thinks free-market capitalism solves every economic problem. His plan is more free-market, and like I just said, its more prone to the failures that we already experienced with a free market system. Just a side-note, I actually kind of like Rand Paul, he's right on a lot of issues like drugs, war, surveillance, gay marriage, etc. However, his economics are a proven failure.
Here's my issues with his plan, and I'll just go by category:

Legalizes inexpensive insurance plans
Inexpensive insurance plans screw the poor, that's the disaster insurance I was referring to that doesn't even cover illnesses. Suddenly poor people won't be able to afford any plan worth having. There's only one morally justifiable healthcare plan that the wealthiest empire the world has ever seen should have, and that is "sick ---> help". So Medicare, except for everyone.

Protects individuals with pre-existing conditions
This one is a little misleading because you would think based off his description that Obamacare didn't do that. Obamacare makes sure that you can't discriminate based off of pre-existing conditions, and there's no time limit.

Helps more people save to buy health insurance and cover medical costs
With a single-payer healthcare plan, there's no reason to save because the money comes right out of your taxes. The problem with this is twofold. One, it says UP TO $5000 dollar tax credit, which might mean only the rich get the highest amount, $5000 (granted I don't know that for sure) but the other problem is what if you still can't pay for a plan? One of the most common criticisms for this idea is that old people would be at a giant disadvantage because their healthcare costs might still be out of range for them to pay for. Especially with the knowledge that people are getting a tax credit, the insurance company would jack up the price because they know they can get the tax money plus out of pocket money (this part is an assumption though).

Guarantees Fair Tax Treatment of Healthcare Insurance
There's no reason to have this. If everybody is instead taxed for healthcare, they don't have to pay for increasingly high healthcare premiums that they would when private health insurers are left to their own devices. The prices balance out in favor of the patient if they are paying a tax. The rich, however, would pay more, and I have no problem with that when they are making more money than they could ever need or even spend.

Helps individuals join together to purchase insurance
In a single-payer system, you don't need to pool together and buy anything. You're all set.

Allows the purchase of insurance across state lines
The whole "crossing state lines to buy insurance" thing is just a way to help insurance companies cut costs. They'll all just flock to states like Kansas and Mississippi where the taxes are incredibly low and the regulations are nonexistent.

Increases state Medicaid flexibility
Allows states to make more Medicaid cuts even though Medicare and Medicaid work very well already.

Empowers physicians
I don't really know for this one. I would assume that a lot of the doctors would use this to increase their paycheck, though.

You're from the Netherlands right? What problems do you have with your healthcare system? They and other healthcare systems like their own are consistently ranked higher than ours with the complete opposite of a free-market system. I don't know what problems you might have with the Dutch system, but is it not working for you? Im asking because I would expect you to take a look at a system thats working by almost every metric and then say, "hey, you guys should try this."

*important caveat though, I don't support taxpayer money going toward elective procedures like nose jobs and other nonsense like that.
To answer your question somewhat on a more personal level, I just don't like the concept of deductibles but maybe it's because I have zero income and getting a job in my area is also pretty hard as a student

People don't like to be ill/injured (At least generally) and to me, paying deductibles is more of a burden because that money could honestly be spared (You pay like a fixed set of money per year and "get it back", but you won't really get it back)


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Re: House Republicans Pull AHCA - March 27th 2017, 04:30 PM

Ok, but with Rand Paul's system, tons of people wouldn't have health insurance and could then easily go bankrupt from medical expenses. That shouldnt happen in the richest country in the world. Deductibles might be kinda shitty, but medical bankruptcy is a whole new kind of shitty. I've been told that other countries hear about medical bankruptcy and just think we're a bunch of barbarians. Well, in more ways than one, we are barbarians, so...


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I vow that I will attack this endeavor with an enthusiasm unknown to mankind. Jim Harbaugh

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Last edited by MWF; March 27th 2017 at 05:14 PM.
   
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