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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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The Manchester Terrorist. - May 23rd 2017, 09:59 PM

The identity of the Manchester suicide bomber has been released as 22-year-old Salman Abedi, a man of Muslim background, who assists with his family at the local mosque, and was born in Manchester. His neighbours state that he was acting strangely recently. So now what?

I seriously think that the release of the name and details of the bomber is negligent on the part of the police, and naive in assuming that people can process that information in a measured and thoughtful way, so soon after an incident like this, and given the attitudes and cognitive biases of people who hear that for the first time. It seems contradictory for the police to give that information away and then say that they will not accept any form of hatred or harassment, because people probably cannot deal with that information, and jump to conclusions.

Do you feel like you want to know about the offender when something like this happens, and then why, why do you want to know, what difference does it make, what are you going to do with that information? Is it taking attention away from the victims or does it help with some sort of closure?
   
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Re: The Manchester Terrorist. - May 23rd 2017, 10:06 PM

It is a terrible situation but I think it perhaps does bring some closure to people. Or even so they can blame and shame. When something terrible happens they question how could the world be so cruel? why do bad things happen? and so to name the criminal i suppose it gives them answers and makes the crime more real and effective.
   
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Re: The Manchester Terrorist. - May 23rd 2017, 10:09 PM

I don't mind hearing the name of the offender as long as people continue to primarily speak about the victims. Has it been determined if he was working alone or not? The last thing that I heard was that the police were investigating if this is a part of something bigger. If they're still unsure, it's possible that they released his name in case it triggers anything in people who know him, such as people who could possibly be involved as well. That's just speculation though.

I do think releasing the name of the victim can provide some sort of closure to the families and friends of the victims. While it might not do much and definitely doesn't take away from the pain that the offender caused, it does give a name to the person that took a loved one from them...and I have to imagine that that's better than wondering who could have done something like this.


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Re: The Manchester Terrorist. - May 23rd 2017, 10:22 PM

I do like to know the name and background of the attacker in these things, maybe our of curiosity, but I also think it's a way for the people investigating the attack to let the community know as much as they can. I don't think it takes away from remembering those who have been injured or killed, but I do think that it makes people feel like they're being kept in the loop.


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Re: The Manchester Terrorist. - May 25th 2017, 01:54 AM

We have a right to know who the enemy is. And to know immediately. To withhold that information would be counterproductive. That said....

I had a black girlfriend for years. She was my 'best friend'. And every time there was a news story about someone acting like a jackass she would say, "I hope he/she wasn't black!" I could appreciate WHY she felt that way. 'Guilt by association' is a powerful thing. But that power is deluded IF a person refuses [AS THEY SHOULD] to accept that 'association'.

Should it be assumed that a Muslim is a terrorist? If NOT - then every NON-terrorist Muslim [which is almost every Muslim - is it not?] must accept AS FACT [Because it IS a FACT] that they have no more in common with Salman Abedi than I do.
   
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Re: The Manchester Terrorist. - May 25th 2017, 04:50 AM

I don't think it was negligent for the police to reveal details about the bomber. Police almost always reveal the name and background of the person responsible for a crime. I think the only instance that they don't reveal information is if the person is a minor.

Personally, I haven't read a whole lot about the bomber. I did stumble across an article that was saying the bombers dad and brother were arrested. I didn't quite understand why the dad was arrested but it appeared that the brother was arrested because he was, possibly, going to bomb somewhere. It wasn't in England. I am blanking on the country.

I think that the public does have the right to know information about someone that commits a crime.


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Re: The Manchester Terrorist. - May 25th 2017, 01:10 PM

If you met one muslim. You've only met ONE muslim. Don't go painting every muslim with the same brushstroke and then expect Muslims to beg everyone not to hate them or not associate them with terrorists. That's our responsibility as outsiders.

Do we expect every Christian to go around saying btw I'm not part of the KKK, please don't judge me?

Or btw I'm Christian but I am okay with women rights and abortion and with the lgbtq community etc. Well I don't expect that from anyone who tells me they're Christian.

Anyway. I am a bit conflicted on this. Obviously we have the right to know in a sense. But in another sense, I think the way the story is told is important to be careful about. I admit I haven't really read much on it so correct me if I'm wrong. But from what the OP had said, there were articles that mentioned him beibg an active member of a mosque.

What if someone decides to bomb that mosque as revenge? It puts the Muslim community even more at risk than what they're already in. I believe it is important to take that into consideration. That by revealing certain detsils that are pretty unnecessary to the public can make innocent people of that community at risk.
Revealing that he was part of a mosque in Manchester....I mean I wonder how many are there in total. The Muslim community being demonized even more is a real problem.
I think it is important to stick with the detsils of his name, whether he is foreign or born in the country which he was, and news about his arrest and such. Victim's families and survivors and that city as a whole needs time to heal without all the eyes of the world trying to get juicy details.

My heart goes out to the victims, survivors abd their families and anyone affected by this. My heart also goes out to the Muslim community because thry often get stuck in these situations due to a few peopke's bad choices and terrorist acts.

While we morn for Manchester, just keep in mind that not all acts of terrorism are defined as terrorism and by that alone, if gives certain forms of terrorism to go on unchecked and unreported. And then it seems like only Muslims do terrorism.

Muslims are the scapegoats in this dysfunctional world. To be honest
   
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Re: The Manchester Terrorist. - May 25th 2017, 03:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by City17 View Post
The identity of the Manchester suicide bomber has been released as 22-year-old Salman Abedi, a man of Muslim background, who assists with his family at the local mosque, and was born in Manchester. His neighbours state that he was acting strangely recently. So now what?

I seriously think that the release of the name and details of the bomber is negligent on the part of the police, and naive in assuming that people can process that information in a measured and thoughtful way, so soon after an incident like this, and given the attitudes and cognitive biases of people who hear that for the first time. It seems contradictory for the police to give that information away and then say that they will not accept any form of hatred or harassment, because people probably cannot deal with that information, and jump to conclusions.

Do you feel like you want to know about the offender when something like this happens, and then why, why do you want to know, what difference does it make, what are you going to do with that information? Is it taking attention away from the victims or does it help with some sort of closure?
If anything, the not releasing of a suspect's details because of attitudes and cognitive biases is kind of asinine because people have a right to know and some people (In my internet community at least) would have their own attitude/"cognitive bias" towards NOT releasing information about a suspect because they think it's part of the narrative news networks like CNN put out (Coulter's Law, Google/DuckDuckGo it)

It would also help a lot if a person is either missing (Criminal or not, regardless of "cognitive biases") or something similar. Wouldn't it be asinine to omit name/details about a missing child, adult or someone who's fleeing from the police after they've murdered soemone or stole something valuable? It would be borderline stupid if you'd ask me


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Re: The Manchester Terrorist. - May 25th 2017, 10:20 PM

I dont think its a bad idea to release information, but it depends on when, what information you're releasing, and how its framed. First, I would wait a few days to release information unless there is some sort of threat in not doing so. If you're telling people to watch out for this guy or his friend, then duh. Do it. If that isn't the case, wait a few days so you can't make any hasty decisions with regard to the information you have. Then I think you should explain if he's affiliated with anyone dangerous. For example, is the guy affiliated with ISIS? We should know that. Is he also a Muslim? Yeah, you can throw that in, as long as you hold that same standard for any religion. Me personally, I'd make sure to mention that he adhered to Wahhabi Islam instead of just Islam. If the person happened to be devoutly religious but that didn't really play into the crime, that should be mentioned, if only for the lesson on hypocrisy. But if the religion was proven to have shaped their views, then the investigators will do their job to uncover who SPECIFICALLY taught them. It could be someone at the mosque, it could be someone on the darknet. This is where I would generally say to stop reporting though, once you get to other people who are just under suspicion. I wouldnt make any assumptions on any specific person, especially if they arent being charged. If it turns out there are more people involved and they are being charged, then YEAH. Talk about it.
What pisses me off about the aftermath is that everybody might freak out and vote for some asshole who runs on an Islamaphobic platform. I always bring up roughly this point, not to be a callous dickhead, but to put things in perspective: It's 22 people. More than twice that get shot and killed in my hometown of 100,000 every year, NOT because of terrorism. I'm not too worried though; after seeing us elect Donny Dipshit, France and the Netherlands looked across the pond and said "nope". We're not electing a reactionary fool.
Sidenote/small rant if you want it: With regard to the religious perspective, if you want to blame Islam in general, try to think of it this way. Theres a huge distinction between Wahhabism and many other forms of more mainstream Islam like Sunni and Shiite Islam. Wahhabism is an ultra-conservative form of Islam that Saudi Arabia implements as law and ISIS is trying to implement. That is a legitimately oppressive strain of Islam, but it doesnt represent all Muslims. Not providing the distinction would be kind of like if a Mormon committed a crime and the news started saying a Christian did it. Many people consider Mormons to be Christians, but most people would agree that Mormonism barely represents Christianity at all. So yeah, imagine if you're a Christian and they start talking about how this devout Christian committed some heinous crime, and then they say, "this was the temple where he was largely brought up." Me personally, I'd be like, "wait, what the hell? That guy's a Mormon." Like it'd just be really weird to me to be categorized in the same general religious group as Mormons. They arent the same religion, they don't believe the same things, but yeah, sure, theres a link between them.
Another side note: There's nothing wrong with Mormonism. In fact, I've met plenty of Mormons who were lovely people, even after I turned down their offers to join the religion.

Hum made a great point in her last line. Muslims are basically the new Communists. The masses always need a common enemy, and the western world picked Muslims.


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Re: The Manchester Terrorist. - May 25th 2017, 11:26 PM

Yes its only fair we know who the attacker was. This not a race /relgion thing. They would have been named no matter what. Yes he was working with ISIS.

Do I feel like the UK should have a tighter border controller for a little while? Yes.
Not because I'm a racist etc. More simply that this is the second terror attack in the UK in 6 or so weeks. I want to be able to feel safe in my country, I want to be able to walk through town without armed police everywhere. I want to be able to get on a bus and not worry weather or not I'm going to be on a bus with someone carrying a bomb or weapon.

Yes this guy is manchester born and bread but at the same time he had involvement with ISIS. But I feel and think that if we had a stronger border controll etc people like the attacker who has left the whole country angry and upset may not have done what he did. He still may have but also may not have.

Because ISIS are an islamic group muslims and people who follow the islamic faith are at the most of the risk of being convinced that this is the right thing to do. Theres things that could be done - Internet companys can be on high alert and watch for people googling chemicals, ISIS, and trigger words like 'bomb' etc.

We do need to remember that the UK foils and stops many attacks - yet at the moment its hard to like remember that. I struggle to rmeember it.

It disgusts me to think that music brings people together now music has divided a nation and ripped a nation apart all because of one guy who decided to dentonate a bomb in the arena....

We had another terror scare today when a car was abandoned on westminster bridge in the area of westminster where 6 weeks ago there was a terror attack. Both attacks have been carried out by people who are of the islamic faith.....
Yes its a small minority of the islamic faith but its something to think about....
I'm not saying all muslims etc are bad as some of my friends are muslim and have themselves said that they are disgusted by what this guy has done....


Its sad that this has happened.



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