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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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gender vs. personality - August 19th 2017, 12:05 AM

This thread has been labeled as triggering by the original poster or by a Moderator. Please take this into consideration before continuing to read.

i'm not really trying to start so much of a debate here, i'd really just like to get some clarification and hear what people have to say about this topic. for awhile now i've been wanting to ask these questions and i figured i'd have a better chance of getting logical responses here than tumblr.

i watch a lot of anti-sjw videos on youtube, and a lot of times they review and debunk arguments presented by SJW's, including mostly people from the left, feminists, BLM supporters, etc.
i also watch a lot of cringe compilations of people from those same groups making very cringey and almost painful to watch arguments, because they lack so much logic.

now before i present my actual thoughts, i just want to clarify that i'm not one to immediately disrespect someone just because they don't identify with male or female. i have a friend who used to consider herself non-binary, but when i asked what her pronouns are she said she's just keeping she/her. however, if she asked me to use they/them, i would've gladly complied, because she's my friend, i love her, and i respect her.
that being said, it is crazy to declare that the entire world should change their ways of greeting people and talking to people, so that their normal, everyday conversation doesn't offend the 0.6% of the American population. i've heard arguments where people freak out because someone addressed - not even the person freaking out - but a completely separate person as "dude" or address a group of friends as "guys". i've heard people literally tell other people that whenever they meet someone new... even if the person clearly dresses and presents themselves as the sex that they so obviously are, that you should still ask them their pronouns.


the main thing i want to learn more about here and gain some new perspective on is the thought of "more than 2 genders".
i just watched a video where a person was explaining what it feels like to be genderfluid. they stated that some days they feel like a boy and some days they feel like a girl. some days they feel like neither.
what i'd like to know is... what exactly does being a girl "feel" like? what does a boy feel like? what does it feel like to have an absence of a gender?

i identify as a girl and i'm glad i have a vagina. truly. however, to me, that ownership of a vagina is all that separates me from my male friends. of course there are slight differences in the male and female brain. but really, i'm just as comfortable in a group of guy friends as i am in a group of girl friends because i am the same person no matter who i'm with.
i've been mistaken for a guy plenty of times, because sometimes i dress more boyishly. i'll wear a beanie to cover my long hair, won't wear makeup, i'll wear a non-padded bra so that my chest stays more flat, and a huge t-shirt. and i'll be mistaken for a boy.
i don't get "triggered" or horrified when people misuse my pronouns and refer to me as "he", because i understand that i look like a he when i wear that.
but i don't identify as anything besides a girl.

and i'm not saying my experience is the "only true and righteous experience". of course i understand that identity is a complicated thing, and it all depends on how that person wants to be perceived. i'm not, by any means, trying to undermine another person's experience.
i only want to understand, so i'm telling you where i'm coming from in my perception of gender vs. sex.

a lot of the genderfluid or non-binary people i have seen talk about their experiences tend to differentiate their "gender of the day" by dressing accordingly with male and female stereotypes. when they feel like a girl, they'll wear flowers and skirts and whatever. when they feel like a boy, they'll wear beanies and khakis and shit.
they'll also say that on their "boy" days, they'll feel more "masculine" and be more assertive and want to watch sports etc. while on their "girl" days, they'll act more "feminine" and put on makeup and want to go shopping.

i feel kind of iffy with this logic, because i can be an assertive person. i'll watch sports. i'll put on makeup. i'll change my style from day to day, just like those people do, but the only difference between me and them is that my "gender" doesn't change along with it. i am who i am and i'd be that same person if i had a dick.
it's kind of weird to me that they use this logic, because these seem to be the same people that insist time and time again that "tHERE ARE NO DIFFERENCES BETWEEN MALES AND FEMALES". yet they demonstrate their different genders by wearing and doing "male things" and "female things".
so....?


i just truly don't understand what the point is of changing your gender and pronouns every other day. even more confusing to me is how some people will say they don't fit into either gender, therefore they are non-binary. i get that they could possibly feel like they don't fit into either "role" of male or female, but who actually does?
many women dress more boyishly, they don't strive to be that classic "stay at home mom who raises the kids and cooks dinner for the husband to come home from work to!" there are women who do more "manly" jobs. and they're still women. and vice versa with men.

what i'm trying to get at is that there aren't just two basic "gender roles" anymore. there are many different roles that either of the sexes could fit into and it doesn't matter what sex they are anymore.
a guy can be a fashion designer or a stay at home dad. a girl can be a construction worker or a CEO. but that guy can still be just a guy, and that girl can still be just a girl.


i guess what i really want to know is how people like this differentiate their gender from their personality. because to me, it seems like their personality is all they're pulling their reasoning from.
again, i didn't mean to disrespect or undermine anyone's identity, and as i said before, identifying as something besides male or female doesn't mean i respect you any less. i'm just really trying to understand something that i can't understand on my own, without talking to the real people who experience these things.


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Re: gender vs. personality - August 19th 2017, 02:37 AM

As a nonbinary person, its not that I feel like I don't fit in with gender roles or anything. Feelings about gender to some people stem from what's told to them since birth, others to what biology they have, and people like me it's a deep feeling within that's always been there that my calling of being "female" is not really such. My personality is like anyone's else, a mix of feminine and masculine gender roles. No one truly fits into these gender roles anymore, as you've stated, because of the acceptance of different things and what "makes" a man a man and a woman a woman.
There's a study that says that the brain has no inherent gender markings, biologically. There's no such thing as a "male" or "female" brain. Gender is a social construct. What the issue is with people saying that people can't be nonbinary or agender or trans or what have you, is that people keep ascribing to the idea that biology is the main factor for being in a binary gender. People say one person can only be male if they have a penis and female if they have a vagina. But people have many factors with biology. Some people are born intersex and their chromosomes and such aren't as simple as saying they're clearly male or female.
Another main issue with people erasing and excluding non-normative genders is that they don't acknowledge that nonbinary genders have existed for CENTURIES before colonialism erased those genders with colonialism. There's two spirit genders from the Native American communities, for example.
Being non-binary isn't just a fact. There's no strict way of being male or female because it's a social construct, so there's no strict way of knowing one is nonbinary or trans or anything. Some trans people, like trans men or trans women, have said that even though they're inherently masculine or feminine, they feel within themselves that they are men or women. And since it's all a construct, that's all that's needed to know that someone is male, female, or otherwise. Every nonbinary person's answer will be different when someone asks "why are you nonbinary" because, as said, there's no simple thing about someone that makes them nonbinary.
You identify as a girl because that's how you feel within. You dress boyishly and have mannerisms and such that may or may not be fully feminine. But you're still a girl. That's basically how some nonbinary and trans people feel.
The thing with being misgendered is something that cis people may not understand. There's a thing called social dysphoria which is different than dysphoria itself. Because we've been trained from birth to accept something that we're not, it makes us doubt about our gender, or maybe be sensitive about our gender. It's not that we get "triggered" (which the making fun of that word is ableist itself but thats another convo to have) It's basically saying "we do not see you as you and therefore we call you something you're not and make you doubt and hurt you" Its a sign of respect. Some people may not be hurt by misgendering because they don't care like you do! But others it's a really personal thing.
There might be no difference between male and female but because of society there is a binary. Society dictates that there is a binary and therefore should be followed. Genderfluid people can ascribe to a gender one day and not the other but all the same, gender is a social construct. It wouldn't matter in the end, really. So it's best to just live as one wants I guess. Someone being nonbinary or genderfluid doesn't harm anyone really so like idk.


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Re: gender vs. personality - August 19th 2017, 08:04 PM

Frankly, if you look like a girl im calling you a she. If im wrong, let me know, no harm no foul and ill call you whatever you prefer. If your changing your pronouns every day you can expect me to get confused. But hey, i used to work fast food, and, frankly being a gay guy, when speaking to customers through a speaker who can't see me, guess what? Most of the time theyd think I'm a girl and say yes ma'am, no ma'am, thank you ma'am, and all of that. Until they got to the window and saw my beard. But did i get offended and triggered? Hell no. Because i sound like a female through a speaker. That's the problem with alot of our generation; they're too easily offended and triggered. I never had a customer disrespect me in a homophobic way: and I'm in the deep South. And if i had? The manager would have refused to serve them and if they refused to leave they'd go to jail. Had that happen once. I guess what I'm saying is if you're offended or triggered by my calling you the wrong pronoun, 1. It wasnt intentional, and 2. Grow the fuck up and put your big boy panties on cuz the whole fucking world ain't fair and it dont revolve around you.


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Re: gender vs. personality - August 19th 2017, 11:21 PM

The world isn't fair and don't revolve around one single person, that's something I can agree with. However, I will use the pronouns that I am asked to out of respect. This is new to me too, I grew up with old school education, old school parents and relatives, everyone around me growing up was old school, and not accepting of people who are different.

I was mistaken for a boy many times. It hurt because I was bullied for it. Not because I'm naturally adrogenous looking and also dress pretty gender neural most of the time. Thats nit the upetting part. The upetting part was how i was treated becsuse of it. When my long hair is in a hat and I am not wearing a real bra, I pass pretty good as a guy. Well not anymore because at 23 years old most guys have facial hair and even if it was removed there are usually dots to show it but for a long I was made fun of for looking like a boy, dressing like a boy, walking like a boy (but always playing sports like a girl haha, but I was seen as a boy still who plays sports like a girl, lol! That's like a gender-ception moment)
My point is that now I identify as non binary woman. Meaning if I had to choose a binary I am fine with the one I was assigned to at birth but in terms of my identity I am more aligned with gender fluid or plainly non binary. Because I personally I am okay with she or they and that's the label that makes sense to me most right now

I think if I had money and wasn't always wearing donated clothes, I would be more inclined to express my gender by fashion but that's not the only way to express an identity. I also wanted to mention a parallel to ethnicity. I am middle eastern but it isn't on the checklist many times when asked about my race, ethnicity etc so I put other or u put asian. I am okay with putting Asian and I'm okay with putting middle eastern but usually there's only the choice of Asian so I put that doen. Likewise for gender, I make it easier for myself and others by estimating my identity and saying I'm a woman. I also have a female body and therefore share a social/historical cultural community with women. Like when it comes to women rights or women's health or women only settings, I feel like I am part of that group for the most part. But I also feel like I am non binary and this is a self-identification thing. Someone can dress and act and have a lifestyle all very similar to mine but identify as a cis-woman .
I can't speak about being passive sometimes and being assertive at other times. I attribute that to my mental health problems and my struggle for recovery and then like relapsing. But that's just me and my experience with assertiveness.

I often talk about my different "modes". I have school mode, caretaker mode, inner child mode. Different parts of myself getting activated. I am not the best at having an integrated sense of self at all though. So I can be unstable with that and maybe my gender expression changes in certain moods and modes (again only speaking for myself)

However when I am timid and shy and afraid and passive, I know it has to do with my experiences but it was often justified and ligitimized over me being a girl or a woman. I mean men harassing me to me is interpreted as them thinking it is okay to harass women in that way and women being a target because they're passive, vulnerable etc and if they're not in that stereotype thode women are teased for being too aggressive even if they're only standing up for themselves.

I see myself as gender fluid but I stick to the word non binary for now. It is something I'm exploring
It is also fluid like sexuality is fluid so the way someone sees them self can be different in different stages of their life.

Just like if a girl prefers girls but have had crushes on guys before but say they're lesion while a person who is similar identifies as bisexual. It is a matter of personal perspective

One last thing is that LGBT is an umbrella term to describe shared identify but not the explanations. I wondered if I'm really asexual or am I just terrified of intimacy? (Similar to the personality vs gender thing). But I might not ever know which came first but right now it is both. I have intimacy problems, I have a history of trauma that may have contributed to it, I am at high risk for hypothyroid disease which is known to cause sexual dysfunction so I have a possible genetic/biological explanation but I'm still asexual in this moment in time (well demisexual in particular)

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Re: gender vs. personality - August 20th 2017, 12:44 AM

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Originally Posted by formerly chevyguy350 View Post
Frankly, if you look like a girl im calling you a she. If im wrong, let me know, no harm no foul and ill call you whatever you prefer. If your changing your pronouns every day you can expect me to get confused. But hey, i used to work fast food, and, frankly being a gay guy, when speaking to customers through a speaker who can't see me, guess what? Most of the time theyd think I'm a girl and say yes ma'am, no ma'am, thank you ma'am, and all of that. Until they got to the window and saw my beard. But did i get offended and triggered? Hell no. Because i sound like a female through a speaker. That's the problem with alot of our generation; they're too easily offended and triggered. I never had a customer disrespect me in a homophobic way: and I'm in the deep South. And if i had? The manager would have refused to serve them and if they refused to leave they'd go to jail. Had that happen once. I guess what I'm saying is if you're offended or triggered by my calling you the wrong pronoun, 1. It wasnt intentional, and 2. Grow the fuck up and put your big boy panties on cuz the whole fucking world ain't fair and it dont revolve around you.
The issue is, that a LOT of people do misgender people intentionally. I have only known people to get upset when they are misgendered intentionally.

For example, my dad's partner has someone in his family who is transgendered and it's been a recent thing that they have come out with (maybe the last 4-5 years). So, there was a point where one of his uncle's referred to him as 'her' because they were not used to referring to them as him. The person, kindly explained that they wanted to be referred to with he/him pronouns. I am pretty sure the person they explained this too was okay with doing so. However, it is REALLY common for family members and others in society to disregard this and continue to refer to them with pronouns that the person does not want. They will also refer to the person by what is referred to as their 'deadname'.

I've talked to a number of transgender people and they have said that if someone unintentionally misgenders them they don't tend to get upset because they know it was a mistake. What upsets them is when people intentionally misgender them.

Are there exceptions to this? Sure, there are probably some people who get upset when people do it unintentionally.

I mean, I recently talked to someone who outright said that even if someone told them that they wanted to be referred to by different pronouns they would not do so because it goes against their religious beliefs.


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Re: gender vs. personality - August 20th 2017, 06:03 PM

This is just my experience. I'm genderfluid, but I actually don't change my pronouns or anything like that when my gender changes. I usually present as nonbinary to keep things simple and so that I don't have to correct anyone more than I have to. I may call myself personally a boy, girl, or enby sometimes, but I much prefer it most people just stick to calling me nonbinary so I don't have to explain things every time gender changes. Although this is just me, I know a lot fellow genderfluid people change pronouns or even names, but I never really understood wanting to do that it just seems like too much of a hassle to me.

Now, explaining what being genderfluid is like is kind of difficult. It's not always stereotyping liking boys and girls things, actually I think that might be uncommon,
but it's feeling like a different gender sometimes and having a gender that changes. When feeling like a boy I much prefer to be called a boy and think of myself as being a boy (i.e daydream of myself being a boy, might call myself a boy, ect). The same applies to being a girl. Being neither is just "I don't feel like a boy or a girl", being both is just "I'm both", and sometimes it's "I actually have no idea what this is right now".

As for being triggered by being misgendered, it's a lot more different for trans or nonbinary people than it is for cis people. The entire thing about it is that you've been called the wrong gender since you were born, by everyone you've ever met, until you realize that you're not the gender you were born as and try to correct people. There is such as thing as gender dysphoria, which is felt by people who are trans/nb. It's a condition where being called your birth gender or being associated with it feels completely wrong.

I should say too that not everyone who is trans/nb gets triggered by being misgendered. Reactions to being misgendered can be very different depending on the individual.

Please let me know if I did a bad job at explaining any of this.


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Re: gender vs. personality - August 21st 2017, 07:49 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hum View Post
The world isn't fair and don't revolve around one single person, that's something I can agree with. However, I will use the pronouns that I am asked to out of respect. This is new to me too, I grew up with old school education, old school parents and relatives, everyone around me growing up was old school, and not accepting of people who are different.

I was mistaken for a boy many times. It hurt because I was bullied for it. Not because I'm naturally adrogenous looking and also dress pretty gender neural most of the time. Thats nit the upetting part. The upetting part was how i was treated becsuse of it. When my long hair is in a hat and I am not wearing a real bra, I pass pretty good as a guy. Well not anymore because at 23 years old most guys have facial hair and even if it was removed there are usually dots to show it but for a long I was made fun of for looking like a boy, dressing like a boy, walking like a boy (but always playing sports like a girl haha, but I was seen as a boy still who plays sports like a girl, lol! That's like a gender-ception moment)
My point is that now I identify as non binary woman. Meaning if I had to choose a binary I am fine with the one I was assigned to at birth but in terms of my identity I am more aligned with gender fluid or plainly non binary. Because I personally I am okay with she or they and that's the label that makes sense to me most right now

I think if I had money and wasn't always wearing donated clothes, I would be more inclined to express my gender by fashion but that's not the only way to express an identity. I also wanted to mention a parallel to ethnicity. I am middle eastern but it isn't on the checklist many times when asked about my race, ethnicity etc so I put other or u put asian. I am okay with putting Asian and I'm okay with putting middle eastern but usually there's only the choice of Asian so I put that doen. Likewise for gender, I make it easier for myself and others by estimating my identity and saying I'm a woman. I also have a female body and therefore share a social/historical cultural community with women. Like when it comes to women rights or women's health or women only settings, I feel like I am part of that group for the most part. But I also feel like I am non binary and this is a self-identification thing. Someone can dress and act and have a lifestyle all very similar to mine but identify as a cis-woman .
I can't speak about being passive sometimes and being assertive at other times. I attribute that to my mental health problems and my struggle for recovery and then like relapsing. But that's just me and my experience with assertiveness.

I often talk about my different "modes". I have school mode, caretaker mode, inner child mode. Different parts of myself getting activated. I am not the best at having an integrated sense of self at all though. So I can be unstable with that and maybe my gender expression changes in certain moods and modes (again only speaking for myself)

However when I am timid and shy and afraid and passive, I know it has to do with my experiences but it was often justified and ligitimized over me being a girl or a woman. I mean men harassing me to me is interpreted as them thinking it is okay to harass women in that way and women being a target because they're passive, vulnerable etc and if they're not in that stereotype thode women are teased for being too aggressive even if they're only standing up for themselves.

I see myself as gender fluid but I stick to the word non binary for now. It is something I'm exploring
It is also fluid like sexuality is fluid so the way someone sees them self can be different in different stages of their life.

Just like if a girl prefers girls but have had crushes on guys before but say they're lesion while a person who is similar identifies as bisexual. It is a matter of personal perspective

One last thing is that LGBT is an umbrella term to describe shared identify but not the explanations. I wondered if I'm really asexual or am I just terrified of intimacy? (Similar to the personality vs gender thing). But I might not ever know which came first but right now it is both. I have intimacy problems, I have a history of trauma that may have contributed to it, I am at high risk for hypothyroid disease which is known to cause sexual dysfunction so I have a possible genetic/biological explanation but I'm still asexual in this moment in time (well demisexual in particular)
I never said i wouldn't use the pronouns im asked to. I just may not immediately know them. Gets too tricky


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Re: gender vs. personality - August 21st 2017, 07:53 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Abibliophobe~ View Post
The issue is, that a LOT of people do misgender people intentionally. I have only known people to get upset when they are misgendered intentionally.

For example, my dad's partner has someone in his family who is transgendered and it's been a recent thing that they have come out with (maybe the last 4-5 years). So, there was a point where one of his uncle's referred to him as 'her' because they were not used to referring to them as him. The person, kindly explained that they wanted to be referred to with he/him pronouns. I am pretty sure the person they explained this too was okay with doing so. However, it is REALLY common for family members and others in society to disregard this and continue to refer to them with pronouns that the person does not want. They will also refer to the person by what is referred to as their 'deadname'.

I've talked to a number of transgender people and they have said that if someone unintentionally misgenders them they don't tend to get upset because they know it was a mistake. What upsets them is when people intentionally misgender them.

Are there exceptions to this? Sure, there are probably some people who get upset when people do it unintentionally.

I mean, I recently talked to someone who outright said that even if someone told them that they wanted to be referred to by different pronouns they would not do so because it goes against their religious beliefs.
But officer, not beating up that homophobic bigot is against my religious beliefs!!! You're giving me ideas...👀👀


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Re: gender vs. personality - August 21st 2017, 08:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddity View Post
This is just my experience. I'm genderfluid, but I actually don't change my pronouns or anything like that when my gender changes. I usually present as nonbinary to keep things simple and so that I don't have to correct anyone more than I have to. I may call myself personally a boy, girl, or enby sometimes, but I much prefer it most people just stick to calling me nonbinary so I don't have to explain things every time gender changes. Although this is just me, I know a lot fellow genderfluid people change pronouns or even names, but I never really understood wanting to do that it just seems like too much of a hassle to me.

Now, explaining what being genderfluid is like is kind of difficult. It's not always stereotyping liking boys and girls things, actually I think that might be uncommon,
but it's feeling like a different gender sometimes and having a gender that changes. When feeling like a boy I much prefer to be called a boy and think of myself as being a boy (i.e daydream of myself being a boy, might call myself a boy, ect). The same applies to being a girl. Being neither is just "I don't feel like a boy or a girl", being both is just "I'm both", and sometimes it's "I actually have no idea what this is right now".

As for being triggered by being misgendered, it's a lot more different for trans or nonbinary people than it is for cis people. The entire thing about it is that you've been called the wrong gender since you were born, by everyone you've ever met, until you realize that you're not the gender you were born as and try to correct people. There is such as thing as gender dysphoria, which is felt by people who are trans/nb. It's a condition where being called your birth gender or being associated with it feels completely wrong.

I should say too that not everyone who is trans/nb gets triggered by being misgendered. Reactions to being misgendered can be very different depending on the individual.

Please let me know if I did a bad job at explaining any of this.
In my experience, a person who wants a safe room in their college gets triggered by anything. So what s that like, 25%of our generation? I've seen that first hand. One kid brought up religion at work once. Around me, so i tell him god is a lie. He gets triggered and damn near killed himself you'd be surprised with this generation...


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Re: gender vs. personality - September 4th 2017, 08:09 PM

People always bring up the argument of intersex people existing, but I think the majority of people write off intersex as a birth defect or a rare phenomenon, just as when a baby is born with an extra toe or something. Whatever the case, I'm not exactly sure of the true number of intersex people, but I do know it's in the vast minority. Thus, using intersex people as proof of more than two genders seems a bit faulty, because they are obviously not the "norm" of human beings. The norm is the majority and the majority of people are male or female.
Also, I feel like the research is really iffy on the subject of differences between male and female brains because I did check out the study you linked, and then did some of my own research. It seems like there's a very equal mix of studies claiming "there are no differences" and studies claiming "there are definite differences" between male and female brains. Which isn't surprising, as there's usually at least one study out there to back up any agenda. Here is one of the studies going into specifics about the brain differences.

I guess I still just don't really understand how one can "feel" like a sex. Like Raphael said, I identify as a girl because that's how I feel within. However, if I really take a good look inside myself, I don't really know if I feel like a girl. I don't feel like anything, I feel like me. And I'm assuming you just feel like you, too. I have so many journal entries from when I was younger, about how I wanted so badly to be a boy. Had my parents approved of transgenderism and paid attention to my "desire to be a boy", who knows, maybe I would be transitioning to get a penis right now. However, I didn't want to be a boy because I felt like one. I only wanted to be a boy because all my friends were boys, and when we got to the age where puberty starts to hit, things got awkward and I wasn't as accepted in their friend group.
The only difference I can see between males and females is what is between their legs. Yes, there are gender roles, but like I said, nobody has to follow those anymore. So I guess I just don't see the point of someone denying that they belong to either gender, because it doesn't really seem like there are any defining factors between the two anymore.

I also don't understand all this "gender is a social construct" and these oh-so-oppressive gender roles that the evil society dictates. Even though there are typical gender roles, aren't they natural? Women are naturally more nurturing, as they are the sex that carries their offspring and really attaches to it more. They feel such a bond with their offspring, because the eggs a women has to use in her lifetime is limited, so she wants to devote time and quality to her offspring. Whereas men usually support the family in less of an emotional sense and more of a physical sense, because men, whether people like it or not, are stronger physically. So men usually work to provide a stable living environment and food for the family. They aren't as naturally emotionally attached, because they have unlimited sperm and care more about the quantity of offspring they produce rather than the quality. Which is why men usually have more sexual partners and have a higher libido. The fact that I'm saying this may "trigger" some, however, in the natural, animal world, this is completely normal.
In many species, the female animal carries the offspring and nurtures them until they are fully grown, where the male animal either leaves and never comes back, or hunts, depending on the species.
Of course, these gender roles can switch between male and females, such as with seahorses, where the male carries the offspring. Much like how the roles also switch between human parents. Sometimes the mother is the provider and the father is the stay-at-home dad who stays and nurtures the children. Nevertheless, those roles are still there and I don't see how they're oppressive in the slightest, mostly because they're only related to family matters and not the individual.
Nobody is required to go on and have a family, but many of us want to because it's instinctual to want to reproduce. Besides the roles of mother and father and whatever ways those may differentiate, I honestly can't think of any other way people are required to adapt to a certain role.


Long story short, I still don't see any difference between the two genders, besides their genitals. I feel like I'd be just as happy with a dick as I am with a vagina, because I would still be me.


What I really want someone to answer is what is the difference between personality and "gender"?


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Re: gender vs. personality - September 4th 2017, 10:45 PM

They aren't natural though. A large amount of woman do not have the natural nurturing instinct that people think woman should or do have. That's why so many woman that choose not to have children (sometimes because they know they don't have that nurturing nature) are looked down upon, are told they will regret it or are told that they are not a real woman. Also, woman who have children and don't instantly feel a connection with the child (this is more common than people realize) end up being made to feel guilty because they don't connect and don't have the natural instinct to care. I have actually talked to a decent amount of woman who struggled with this and it was made worse by comments and assumptions that were made.

The same goes for men, they are supposed to be strong emotionally and physically and if they don't fit into that role they are looked down upon. If a man shows emotion they are called 'gay' for example. If a man doesn't like sports it is viewed as abnormal and they are seen as less then. There are plenty of men who have their masculinity challenged because they aren't viewed as stereotypical. I know plenty of guys who actually pretend to like sports, pretend to be emotionally tough, pretend to be overly sexual and it's all because if people in society found out that they were different they would be looked down upon.

So, that is why people don't like the gender roles that are placed on them because there are a whole lot of people that do not fit into the category but they are unable to let people know and if they do let people know the vast majority get ridiculed.

I recently heard someone make the comment that they would not be able to have a son because if he was a 'p***Y' they wouldn't be able to handle it. But, what, exactly, makes a boy/man a 'p***y?' If they are emotionally sensitive? If they don't like stereotypical things?

My boyfriend is definitely not a stereotypical man and loads of people would/have judged and made assumptions about him but comparing him to the other men I have gone out on dates with who might have been more stereotypical 'male', he is a whole lot more of a 'man'.


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Re: gender vs. personality - September 6th 2017, 08:50 AM

I think we should respect everyone. But I sort of agree with you. It really does seem that political correctness is a very "selective" thing- I mean people freak out if you say something that could even be misconstrued as being even slightly offensive against certain groups (LGBT, women, muslims,etc) while a lot of other groups (mentally ill, etc.) face a lot of stigma in society. It isn't really fair, but it is true that our society really hasn't learned to accept everyone. Like everyone is quick to point out that most muslims aren't terrorists,etc. Yet after every school shooting, the media is saying the most hurtful things about people with mental illness/mental disabilities. They think nothing of using the harshest stereotypes and misconceptions about people are wired differently.

And a lot of the "accepting" people in my life have shown to be the most judgmental and shallow. For example- my roommates girlfriend was always extremely rude to me. I never did anything rude to her at all- she just thought I wasn't cool enough or whatever to even acknowledge- she made me feel oppressed in my own home. Yet the same girl claimed to be all about supporting equal rights,etc. and treating everyone fair. Totally hypocritical. I have met a lot of people just like her.

People are still judged for being socially awkward, being poor, being unattractive, etc. and nobody thinks anything of it. Yet you say him/her and some people get all up in arms. I'm not saying these people don't deserve respect. I absolutely respect people who are non-binary the same as anyone else; my point was that most of these "politically correct"/"accepting" people are that way not because they are really non-judgemental , but because it's the socially accepted thing now to be (on the surface) accepting of such groups.
   
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Re: gender vs. personality - September 6th 2017, 09:05 AM

Just another point I wanted to add-

I kind of agree with you on this- If you believe the modern feminist idea that women and men are the same except for chromosomes and stuff- then it makes no sense to "feel" like a certain gender. It's an inconsistency that doesn't really make sense. On the other hand, I don't really believe that- I think that there are important differences between men and women neurologically and psychologically (and this has actually been proven with observed structural differences in parts of the brain and amount of white matter vs grey matter). So because of that, it makes sense that a person can be transgender if they have, say, a more "male " brain in a female body,etc.


As for gender roles, I think they have some truth to them- because men and women are different- but on the other hand, our society has turned these things that are true only on average into rules that everyone must follow (ie. men can't cry, women aren't supposed to be strong, etc. ). For example,the fact that men may naturally cry less (on average) than women is turned into "no man is allowed to cry" by society. And I don't believe in those kind of society mandated norms. I think to each their own- and it shouldn't be anybody's business if a man has feminine mannerisms or something. That should be accepted- people should be encouraged to be themselves and not conform to gender roles that are culturally mandated and artificial.

Basically, it is oppressive if society tries to force these norms on people based on a pre-conceived notion of what things "should" be like---but it isn't oppressive (in my opinion) to say that there are differences between the genders or that men have had a certain role more often than women,etc.
   
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