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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Patriotism - July 18th 2009, 10:05 PM

So, I was just wondering people's opinions on patriotism?

This was sparked by something I saw on an americans myspace profile, 'I also love America, if you are American and don't love your country, then you can GET THE HELL OUT'

I just don't get this? I can't imagine any British person writing this, maybe it's just a cultural thing? But people can complain and complain about there government and the 'state of the nation' but then say 'I love my country'. Is it just the expected norm whether you believe it or not?

Patriotism ( in the extreme), seems to me anyway, a form of racism. It's saying that this country is better, this country and everything in it is better than any other. That the values and culture of one country are more important that any other. And when people feel like that it has a tendency to turn into jingoism, which I can't see as being good in any circumstance.

I understand being loyal to a football team or the such like but a country? Putting your complete faith behind a government and the people, maybe this shows my skepticism, but i don't get it?

Anywho It probably just my lack of faith in any organised government but if your loyal to anything be loyal to the universal values of freedom and liberty (not that they're exercised everywhere which I suppose is where some of patriotism comes from but I'm rambling...)


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Last edited by Faye.; July 18th 2009 at 10:48 PM.
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Re: Patriotism - July 18th 2009, 10:16 PM

oh gosh.. it makes me laugh to be honest. hate to generalize but so many americans take the patriotic thing wayyy too far. fine.. be proud of your country but don't expect anyone else to care about it. i also find the whole flying the american flag thing everywhere kinda funny.


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Re: Patriotism - July 18th 2009, 10:38 PM

Patriotism is okay in my opinion, but it is taken to far by a LOT of people, and it's not just Americans. I'm patriotic to my country, but that's because I know England is just the greatest =p. But is it really a racist act to love your country? I think not! But a lot of overly-patriotic people are racist (eg. the KKK).
   
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Re: Patriotism - July 18th 2009, 10:42 PM

As someone who was born and raised in the United States, I've experienced a crap load of people who are overly nationalistic. It bugs me quite a bit, for many reasons. One of them being that it sends the wrong message to other countries. Americans are seen as overconfident, overzealous, and uninformed just because of the small percentage of us that shoves stars and stripes down everyone else's throats.

Most Americans are encouraged to be patriotic from a very young age, so it's no question where it comes from: The Pledge of Allegiance plastered on the walls/books of every school in the country, the American Flags being flown everywhere as if they matter, and the bumper stickers....oh my GOD the bumper stickers...

I'm pleased to say, however, that each generation seems to be getting progressively less nationalistic. (Mainly because the technology available has been opening us up to knowledge that previous generations didn't have.)

The main thing that bothers me about "patriotism" though, is that people use it as an excuse to be prejudiced. Some of the people in my family (I won't say who they are for obvious reasons,) are prejudiced against Japanese people, British people, and anyone from the Middle East. And it doesn't matter what I say to them on the subject; they've been taught to trust in the American government and no one else.

And one other thing that bothers me (just one more and then I'm done ) is the obvious disregard for separation of church and state. Most people who refer to themselves as patriots think that Christianity makes them more patriotic, just because some of the founding fathers were Christian. That's why I can't go ANYWHERE without seeing one of those damn "ONE NATION UNDER GOD" bumper stickers on a crappy old Ford. Ugh....

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Re: Patriotism - July 18th 2009, 10:48 PM

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Originally Posted by PolkaDotTissue View Post
Patriotism is okay in my opinion, but it is taken to far by a LOT of people, and it's not just Americans. I'm patriotic to my country, but that's because I know England is just the greatest =p. But is it really a racist act to love your country? I think not! But a lot of overly-patriotic people are racist (eg. the KKK).
I did mean in the extreme, I not saying because you love your country your racist but it does mean that you're rejecting different cultures and that rejection can be through ignorance and bigotry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorelei View Post

And one other thing that bothers me (just one more and then I'm done ) is the obvious disregard for separation of church and state. Most people who refer to themselves as patriots think that Christianity makes them more patriotic, just because some of the founding fathers were Christian. That's why I can't go ANYWHERE without seeing one of those damn "ONE NATION UNDER GOD" bumper stickers on a crappy old Ford. Ugh....
I'm so glad you feel the same about that, not that I'm american, but the fact a country that separated church and state is so religious baffles me.


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Re: Patriotism - July 18th 2009, 11:57 PM

Patriotism is fine as long as you don't exceed it like some people that dress with the flag on there shirt, pants, shoes, socks, underwear, etc...
Just having respect for your flag and country is fine.


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Re: Patriotism - July 19th 2009, 09:59 AM

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Patriotism is fine as long as you don't exceed it like some people that dress with the flag on there shirt, pants, shoes, socks, underwear, etc...
Just having respect for your flag and country is fine.
I was wondering about all the things that get the american flag printed on and found this youtube video, kinda makes you think =/


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Re: Patriotism - July 19th 2009, 12:35 PM

Extreme patriotism scares me, even the moderate version makes me uncomfortable....
I live in a country where any kind of nationalism is generally frowned upon (since 2006 it's somewhat acceptable to have flags when you're supporting the national football (soccer? I never get that right) team). That's because of history, of course, and our tendency for Angst (which is a *very* German emotion. Even the word is German, though here it doesn't mean quite the same.)
I like my country, but I wouldn't say it out loud. I'd never wear a flag. Most of my friends want to get rid of the national state altogether and have a stronger EU...
   
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Re: Patriotism - July 19th 2009, 04:02 PM

I don't like partiotism at all. Nationalism and patriotism are just two more obstacles in the face of global unity. I add nationalism as the two are very much linked.

Sure, think your country is simply the best but remember that every other country around the world has people who think the same about theirs and never let it effect your view of other countries.

The thing that really makes me laugh is regional nationalism. Where different parts of the country believe themselves to be largely superior and better than the other parts.
   
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Re: Patriotism - July 19th 2009, 06:45 PM

I don't like patriotism either... I just don't get it (I'm Canadian though, so that might have something to do with it. lol) Why does it matter where you live or what your ethnic origins are? Its all just land, and we really are a global community now... I wouldn't be happy if I had to pledge allegiance to my country either. It just seems off to me...
   
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Re: Patriotism - July 19th 2009, 06:51 PM

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I don't like patriotism either... I just don't get it (I'm Canadian though, so that might have something to do with it. lol) Why does it matter where you live or what your ethnic origins are? Its all just land, and we really are a global community now... I wouldn't be happy if I had to pledge allegiance to my country either. It just seems off to me...
It doesn't matter where you live... All patriotism is is the love of you country, not saying it's the best, not saying all the best people come from there, just the love and the pride of your country...
   
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Re: Patriotism - July 19th 2009, 06:54 PM

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It doesn't matter where you live... All patriotism is is the love of you country, not saying it's the best, not saying all the best people come from there, just the love and the pride of your country...
Yeah, and I think that's weird. Why should anyone love or be proud of their country? Its just land.
   
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Re: Patriotism - July 19th 2009, 06:57 PM

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Yeah, and I think that's weird. Why should anyone love or be proud of their country? Its just land.
But it's not just land is it? It's like saying a parent can't have pride in their child because it's 'just a human'
   
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Re: Patriotism - July 19th 2009, 07:03 PM

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But it's not just land is it? It's like saying a parent can't have pride in their child because it's 'just a human'
I don't see the connection.

Someone grows up in a country. They work, pay taxes, reap the benefits of citizenship. The government generally has no direct involvement in their life.

A parent raises a child, cares for and loves him or her, and teaches their child how to become a good person and a contributing member of society.
   
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Re: Patriotism - July 19th 2009, 07:11 PM

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I don't see the connection.

Someone grows up in a country. They work, pay taxes, reap the benefits of citizenship. The government generally has no direct involvement in their life.

A parent raises a child, cares for and loves him or her, and teaches their child how to become a good person and a contributing member of society.
It's not just the land remember, it's the people on the land. Society also teachers a person a lot about life. Yes parents teach you a lot, but so does the community, and different countries 'produce' people who act differently.
   
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Re: Patriotism - July 19th 2009, 07:49 PM

I don't know whether it's the same but I defend my school a lot when people say bad things about it and I do the same with my town even though when I'm older I'm going to get as far away from this place as I can. I don't say anything about England unless someone actually criticizes it.


   
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Re: Patriotism - July 19th 2009, 09:34 PM

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I was wondering about all the things that get the american flag printed on and found this youtube video, kinda makes you think =/

Yeah it makes you think...here where I live a celebrity got a fine for wearing the flag around here when she was talking picture for her new cover album... here you get fined if you do anything to disrespect the flag or anything in the video.


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Re: Patriotism - July 19th 2009, 11:31 PM

I have mixed opinions on this. Just as I think you should be able to have gay pride, you should be able to have pride for your country? But, then again, it creates so many boundries and so forth.

I think if you're not shoving your patriotism down other peoples throats, it's okay. Something like that on a MySpace page is just immature.



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Re: Patriotism - July 20th 2009, 12:31 AM

As long as you respect all other countries and such, I don't find patriotism to be much of a problem.

I'm proud to say that I love this country (USA). Why?

One reason is because my parents wouldn't be living the life we have now if they had stayed in their own country. They moved here for opportunity and to go farther than they could have in their home country...And I'd say they succeeded here..

I grew up here...And I can say I've lived a good life in this country. So when someone attacks my home, I have every right to defend it.
   
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Re: Patriotism - July 20th 2009, 02:26 AM

patriotism, i think seem, to be used as a pick me up after
something bad happens is our country.

for most people they keep to a low but there are a few hardcore americans.

personally i dont like it.
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