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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 18th 2010, 07:05 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa...anti.gay.bill/

I looked to see if there were any threads on this but couldn't find any, so if there are I apologize.
I am appalled with this Bill. Living in Canada, it is hard to believe that someone could actually be in support of this. Law makers in Uganda want the bill to pass before the year is over. There is a group on facebook indicating that if this bill was implemented into society, it is similar to a genocide against LGBT people, and I agree with it. I find it just disgusting a bill like this can even be suggested, let alone implemented into a country.
   
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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 18th 2010, 07:09 PM

Uganda is very strict on certain issues like this. Most places in the world homosexials are targeted with a rod of iron.
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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 18th 2010, 09:27 PM

i don't really understand it either, but it's a very different society in countries like Uganda.. so i can't say i'm surprised.


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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 18th 2010, 11:06 PM

We don't understand it, but it is a completely different society over there. In Tanzania homosexuality is punishable by death, and most of the population would agree with it. Things will change over time, but for now, although we don't like it, you have to accept and respect other cultures.
   
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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 19th 2010, 12:06 AM

I don't like this, at all. Put to death for being gay?! I understand that it's a different country, and different culture, but that doesn't make it right, not at all.


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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 19th 2010, 12:44 AM

For all that I know attitudes like this persist in many parts of world, I'm still disgusted to read this.


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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 19th 2010, 12:59 AM

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......although we don't like it, you have to accept and respect other cultures.
Hi Rachel!!

I hope you're having a super fine day.

In response to the quote above - I don't agree at all. I think of earthlings as being part of a world community. And I believe that all of us have a perfect right to interfere in any part of the world where human beings are being treated unjustly. One only has to think back to Nazi Germany. IF the Nazi's were 'only' exterminating Jews within their borders and did not invade other countries - should we have 'accepted' and 'respected' that? Civilized human beings have a responsibility to speak up and to fight against those who take it upon themselves to infringe upon the right of every human being to BE human.

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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 19th 2010, 02:13 AM

Although respecting and accepting different cultures is very important, I believe there comes a time when it is up to another country to aid the people within this certain country who are being discriminated again. I realize that the majority of people in Uganda are against homosexuality, but this does not mean there are not people there who are homosexual. Does a certain belief or culture give a person the right to kill someone based on their sexual orientation? I don't think so. As much as I don't like it, some countries do not accept homosexuality and in some countries it is criminalized, but to sentence the death penalty to someone "engaging in homosexual sex more than once" is going too far. Also, this Bill is suggesting that people testing positive for HIV may also be sentenced to death. If this is the case no one will want to be tested for HIV, and will therefore not know whether or not they have it, which can lead to an bigger spread of the virus. "The bill forbids the "promotion of homosexuality," which in effect bans organizations working in HIV and AIDS prevention."
   
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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 19th 2010, 02:23 AM

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Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake View Post
you have to accept and respect other cultures.
Just as you have to accept and respect other sexual orientations.

Just because they pass a bill making homosexuality illegal doesn't mean there won't be homosexuals, anyway. They must really be stupid.





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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 19th 2010, 04:21 AM

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you have to accept and respect other cultures.
Not if it impedes upon the rights and safety of others.

This isn't a matter of "don't show them the soles of your shoes" it's a matter of human rights.

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Just because they pass a bill making homosexuality illegal doesn't mean there won't be homosexuals, anyway. They must really be stupid.
Actually, don't you remember the War on Drugs? This is a war on gay people, and just like the War on Drugs, there won't be any gay people anymore.

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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 19th 2010, 05:25 AM

This is a point when people have to stand up and say "this isn't right". When someones cultural beliefs are going to hurt thousands of people we need to do something about it.

I agree with what Craig said; if the Nazi's hadn't gone into other places to exterminate the Jews should we have let it continue? I mean, in retrospect the worlds inactivity in the holocaust might have caused more deaths then necessary.

It is times like these when I hope that we as people have learned from past mistakes and will do everything we can to put a stop to this. I am so glad that so many human rights groups are going to be getting involved in this.

Some people may not like homosexuality but at the end of the day no one deserves to be punished/killed because of it.


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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 19th 2010, 07:33 AM

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Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake View Post
We don't understand it, but it is a completely different society over there. In Tanzania homosexuality is punishable by death, and most of the population would agree with it. Things will change over time, but for now, although we don't like it, you have to accept and respect other cultures.
I'm sorry but I could never respect a culture where they would kill a person for being gay -_____- It's clearly wrong no matter in what country. Nodding and smiling just to respect another culture even though you know what they're doing is wrong is just ridiculous :/


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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 19th 2010, 02:36 PM

I don't agree with it either, but on a similar level, I think the death penalty is a complete breach of human rights and immoral. yet plenty of Americans don't - but no one has the right to force their beliefs on other cultures and countries.
   
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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 19th 2010, 02:46 PM

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I don't agree with it either, but on a similar level, I think the death penalty is a complete breach of human rights and immoral. yet plenty of Americans don't - but no one has the right to force their beliefs on other cultures and countries.
When other lives are at stake, I think they do. I agree with you about the death penalty. And I see where you're coming from; in a sense we are invading the rights of others. But I think too much emphasis is being placed here on legal rights, not on what is morally right, and the former should be a consequence of the latter. If you see someone being brutally attacked, morally, you should try to defend them if you are capable of doing so. That the attacker is a politician from another country should have no impact on that.


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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 19th 2010, 03:01 PM

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When other lives are at stake, I think they do. I agree with you about the death penalty. And I see where you're coming from; in a sense we are invading the rights of others. But I think too much emphasis is being placed here on legal rights, not on what is morally right, and the former should be a consequence of the latter. If you see someone being brutally attacked, morally, you should try to defend them if you are capable of doing so. That the attacker is a politician from another country should have no impact on that.
But it's only morally wrong in our opinion, which is my point really. I don't know about Uganda, but I know that in Tanzania where homosexuality is also punishable by death the majority of the citizens support that law. We can't force our morals onto other country, because, (see the irony?), it's immoral.

Cultures can be complete polar opposites of one another. You have to respect other cultures, and if you want to try and change it, be prepared for a long hard battle and none of these issues will be changed by people in the West, none of them will be changed by politicians. They'll be changed over a very long period of time by people working in the countries themselves, but it will meet a lot of resistance and may not ever happen. Hell in lots of East African countries, people are being murdered every week and their body parts sold because they are albindo and the police are actively trying to prevent this, yet it still happens, so I don't think any action on this side of the world will make even the smallest difference... if people want this to change, you need be supporting charities that work in the country themselves and don't simply impose their beliefs onto other cultures.

Regardless of this, it's just plain egotistical to assume yourself to be morally superior than another person or country. You should not and cannot impose your beliefs onto other cultures because you do not agree with them.

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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 19th 2010, 04:15 PM

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Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake View Post
But it's only morally wrong in our opinion, which is my point really. I don't know about Uganda, but I know that in Tanzania where homosexuality is also punishable by death the majority of the citizens support that law. We can't force our morals onto other country, because, (see the irony?), it's immoral.

Cultures can be complete polar opposites of one another. You have to respect other cultures, and if you want to try and change it, be prepared for a long hard battle and none of these issues will be changed by people in the West, none of them will be changed by politicians. They'll be changed over a very long period of time by people working in the countries themselves, but it will meet a lot of resistance and may not ever happen. Hell in lots of East African countries, people are being murdered every week and their body parts sold because they are albindo and the police are actively trying to prevent this, yet it still happens, so I don't think any action on this side of the world will make even the smallest difference... if people want this to change, you need be supporting charities that work in the country themselves and don't simply impose their beliefs onto other cultures.

Regardless of this, it's just plain egotistical to assume yourself to be morally superior than another person or country. You should not and cannot impose your beliefs onto other cultures because you do not agree with them.
Hang on, first we need to define "impose". I'm not suggesting invading every country that does things we find abhorrent. I'm a pacifist myself; that's the last thing you'd hear me suggesting. But I don't think that just sitting back and letting the Ugandans sort themselves out is the right solution either. Like many third world countries, Uganda leans heavily on support from wealthier nations. That means we have some amount of influence. Supporting charities in those countries is absolutely a good way of improving the quality of life there. Leaning on governments to afford more people basic human rights is other. I'd say that both together is better than either effort individually.

I'm having a little difficulty parsing your post; I think you're making two different arguments simultaneously. One about what kind of change we can affect, and another about what kind of change we should. I completely agree that stomping all over their legal system to get our way is wrong; and likely to fail besides. Leaning on their government is at best a temporary solution; but it's still one that may save hundreds of lives, and allow charity grassroots efforts to slowly change the feelings of people there. So that's what we can do. Personally, for all I'm an atheist, I don't think morality is decided by the majority. I think all people are equal, and deserve to be treated equally. The entire population of the world could be against violating the rights of just one person, and I'd still think it wrong. So I think we should exert what influence we have to try to improve life for people in third world countries, regardless of how many people disagree.


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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 20th 2010, 03:36 AM

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Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake View Post
you have to accept and respect other cultures.
Not at all. I don't have to accept what another culture does if I do not support it nor do I have to respect it. But what's interesting with this is the quote below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake View Post
I don't agree with it either, but on a similar level, I think the death penalty is a complete breach of human rights and immoral. yet plenty of Americans don't - but no one has the right to force their beliefs on other cultures and countries.
You claim here nobody has the right to force their beliefs onto other cultures. Up above, you're doing just that; you're demanding us to accept your belief that we should accept and respect other cultures.

The comparison with the death penalty in USA isn't comparable with that of homosexuals in Uganda. In the US, the death penalty is for crimes comprising of multiple murders and similar horrific acts. It's performed on people who are a large threat to society and who have already killed or done other horrific acts to fellow humans. The death penalty in Uganda for homosexuals is nothing like that, it's killing homosexuals not because they're a threat to anyone but rather because of a strong dislike for it. Their attempt to reduce HIV and AIDS is nice but killing or tossing people in prison for life certainly isn't a great way to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake View Post
But it's only morally wrong in our opinion, which is my point really. I don't know about Uganda, but I know that in Tanzania where homosexuality is also punishable by death the majority of the citizens support that law. We can't force our morals onto other country, because, (see the irony?), it's immoral.
I see the irony, I also see the irony of what I mentioned above with your first quote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake View Post
Cultures can be complete polar opposites of one another. You have to respect other cultures, and if you want to try and change it, be prepared for a long hard battle and none of these issues will be changed by people in the West, none of them will be changed by politicians. They'll be changed over a very long period of time by people working in the countries themselves, but it will meet a lot of resistance and may not ever happen. Hell in lots of East African countries, people are being murdered every week and their body parts sold because they are albindo and the police are actively trying to prevent this, yet it still happens, so I don't think any action on this side of the world will make even the smallest difference... if people want this to change, you need be supporting charities that work in the country themselves and don't simply impose their beliefs onto other cultures.
If third-world countries are to be helped out, as much as you may disagree with this, their beliefs and culture are likely to be affected when we introduce ourselves there. If we intend to try to get them to have a better well-being, part of it involves pressuring them to change their beliefs so as to not be killing one another for more or less petty reasons. Killing because one is an albino or a homosexual to me is a petty reason. We cant easily help out the countries, especially if an individual who is trying to help is a homosexual and he/she gets locked in prison for life or executed simply due to their sexual orientation.

Quote:
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Regardless of this, it's just plain egotistical to assume yourself to be morally superior than another person or country. You should not and cannot impose your beliefs onto other cultures because you do not agree with them.
There's a difference here between not accepting or respecting a culture and imposing one's beliefs onto that culture. I don't respect nor accept the culture where homosexuals are killed pretty much because they're homosexuals but I'm not suggesting we have to change their culture. They can keep it and continue practicing it but I'm not a supporter of it. With that said, there's something to consider though.

Interestingly though, for the third time, your first quote is in direct contradiction as you were imposing your beliefs onto our beliefs, saying we must accept and must respect the other cultures.
   
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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 20th 2010, 04:48 PM

Your point about me imposing my beliefs is completely irrelevant. It's a debating thread. Thats the entire point.

Good points in other places though Made me think, I will respond when I'm not quite so snowed under with work so probably the weekend
   
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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 20th 2010, 04:55 PM

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Your point about me imposing my beliefs is completely irrelevant. It's a debating thread. Thats the entire point.
I'm aware this is a debating thread, however, in a debate, if you say not to do A yet you do A yourself, that ruins your credibility regarding the specific argument A. So it is very relevant as it's something you used in various posts and each time, you contradicted yourself by doing so. The next question is, since it's clear you contradicted yourself once already, are you/have you done so again for another argument? It is very relevant. To say it's irrelevant would allow you to say gibberish and have it still be a valid argument.
   
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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 20th 2010, 05:03 PM

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I'm aware this is a debating thread, however, in a debate, if you say not to do A yet you do A yourself, that ruins your credibility regarding the specific argument A. So it is very relevant as it's something you used in various posts and each time, you contradicted yourself by doing so. The next question is, since it's clear you contradicted yourself once already, are you/have you done so again for another argument? It is very relevant. To say it's irrelevant would allow you to say gibberish and have it still be a valid argument.
Talking of gibberish, this entire post is bullshit, so shall I therefore assume everything else you write is?

A debating thread is a discussion of your beliefs and opinions on a matter. Therefore it is necessary to write those opinions and beliefs down. Therefore this feeble attempt at undermining my points is ridiculous, because that is the entire point of the thread.

May I also suggest you look up the word 'impose' to try and comprehend its meaning?

Now, back to the actual topic, eh.
   
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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 20th 2010, 06:42 PM

I respect the right for people to live culturally as they wish, but don't believe cultural differences excuses injustices.

I know how much freedom I have to be who I am in the country I live, and yet, even with all the laws we have protecting us here, and such like, I still see inadequancies. I cannot respect a law that increases problems for people simply being what they are. As a queer in such a free country, I can not turn a blind eye to the problems with this law, because I know I would not be happy to be under it. And the majority oppose? Well the majority are straight, and uneducated about homosexuality.

I'm not saying invade them, and use military force to deal with it. But speaking out at the least needs to be done. A spotlight needs to be placed on this. There are laws in Uganda preventing homosexual groups from campaigning or educating, and therefore greatly restricting the internal ability to change how that society is. What a spotlight on the situation does, is give some platform for the issues. Of course it needs to be done carefully, or it will cause a negative backlash to the west, and any points raised will be immediately shot down. But leaving it at 'we must respect their culture' is a passive condoning of this issue.
   
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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 20th 2010, 06:51 PM

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We don't understand it, but it is a completely different society over there. In Tanzania homosexuality is punishable by death, and most of the population would agree with it. Things will change over time, but for now, although we don't like it, you have to accept and respect other cultures.
So does that mean that we shouldn't be helping the people over in Haiti who are sick and injured? Because "it's a completely different society over there" ? Or that we shouldn't have helped the people in Iraq have freedom because "we have to accept other cultures" ?

Sure, there are some things about other cultures and societies that we need to accept. But when the way they live and the things they believe is insulting or dangerous to other people who deserve their freedom there's no way in Hell I'm going to accept their culture.

Your belief is like saying that murder should be legal. Why? Because "that's how some people live their lifestyles." What I mean is that just because someone believes something, and form their society and customs because of those beliefs, doesn't mean that what they believe is right. So to me, your statement is a load of crap.





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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 21st 2010, 04:37 PM

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Talking of gibberish, this entire post is bullshit, so shall I therefore assume everything else you write is?

A debating thread is a discussion of your beliefs and opinions on a matter. Therefore it is necessary to write those opinions and beliefs down. Therefore this feeble attempt at undermining my points is ridiculous, because that is the entire point of the thread.

May I also suggest you look up the word 'impose' to try and comprehend its meaning?

Now, back to the actual topic, eh.
Excellent, now that your anger is out, let me reply.

The point of a debate is not merely to give your opinion and beliefs. It's to give in a systematic manner, not to simply dump them down. When you give your opinions against something and some of them begin contradicting each other, don't you think that's going to make it rather confusing for people to understand? You can assume what I write is bullshit however that is not what I'm doing to you and I've stated that clearly already so if you wish to think that every time you see my username then it must be a pile of horseshit, then so be it, however, that is not an effective debate method of simply ignoring what the person says. You clearly have a different idea of what a debate is than the majority does so this has to be addressed before any specific subject matter can be. But if you're idea of a debate is to simply plop all your beliefs and opinions of the matter down regardless if they contradict each other, well, as good as your arguments for each of your belief may be, you cant simply say that it's irrelevant because it's not the topic at hand. It's a pretty good cop-out.

As for the main topic, I don't have much else to say so I'll wait for your responses or until someone else provides a suitable argument to go against.
   
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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 26th 2010, 04:29 PM

Okay. So if they decide to kill GLBT people, I would be dead/

i'm not going to respect a culture where they feel they need to kill homosexuals.
It's not fair.
And then there is the fact that you don't choose your sexuality.

I honestly think it's a pointless bill.


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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 27th 2010, 12:56 AM

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Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake View Post
But it's only morally wrong in our opinion, which is my point really. I don't know about Uganda, but I know that in Tanzania where homosexuality is also punishable by death the majority of the citizens support that law. We can't force our morals onto other country, because, (see the irony?), it's immoral.
I agree, and in reality, it's Christianity in it's arguably 'pure' or 'extreme' form, over 50% of Ugandans are Christian and it seems they take the Bible very seriously in their legislation. Here are a couple of statements from the bible (not that I agree or disagree with them):

  1. Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."
  2. Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them."

So you could say they're a nation strictly following their religion, which is is seen in many places. Who are we (the west, mostly) with our diverse populations and widespread acceptance of differences and promotion of uniqueness, to criticize the more traditional countries of the world?


Quote:
Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake View Post
We don't understand it, but it is a completely different society over there. In Tanzania homosexuality is punishable by death, and most of the population would agree with it. Things will change over time, but for now, although we don't like it, you have to accept and respect other cultures.
Well said, I couldn't agree more.


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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 27th 2010, 10:21 PM

I think its disgusting. People say that we shouldn't judge people from other cultures, but I think we have to. Why should another persons life be less important just because they live in another country? In my opinion the fundamental responsibility of the human race is to protect each other, and artificial boundaries shouldn't matter to this. Where do we draw the line? Is it ok to kill every black person, if thats part of your culture? no of course its not. We HAVE to apply our own morals to other situations, because otherwise how do we stop genocide? How do we apply laws within our own country, because some people inside this country may have different morals and therefore should they be allowed to do honour killings, after all it is part of there culture, and who am I to judge?
Hopefully this makes some form of sense!




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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 27th 2010, 11:10 PM

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Originally Posted by Penguin Queen View Post
Why should another persons life be less important just because they live in another country?
All life should be considered equal, but humans come top most of the time. I'm not sure where living in another country comes into it? Human rights are global.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguin Queen View Post
Where do we draw the line? Is it ok to kill every black person, if thats part of your culture? no of course its not. We HAVE to apply our own morals to other situations, because otherwise how do we stop genocide?
Where to draw the line is exactly the problem lawmakers have, it will constantly be argued over, and it gets complicated when religion is involved as well. You say if it's part of their culture, it doesn't make it ok, yet you say people should be allowed to do honor killings because it's part of their culture? Maybe I misunderstood.
In this case it's not a part of their culture, but more a part of their religion. The two largest religions in Uganda are Christianity and Islam, both speak ill of homosexuality, and Islam forbids it.

Genocide has occured in the past with one leader responsible, none have happened in the last decade, but they usually occur during war. It was only in the 1990s that the international law on the crime of genocide began to be enforced. The International Criminal Court and UN have put in a lot of effort since the 1990s to make sure genocides are avoided. Applying morals to this doesn't work, as if you consider the morals of everyone, there will be a wide spectrum of them, with extremes. Human rights law is best applied to it, as most agree with it.

Quote:
The Anti-Homosexuality Bill features several provisions that human rights groups say would spur a witch hunt of homosexuals in the country:

• Gays and lesbians convicted of having gay sex would be sentenced, at minimum, to life in prison

• People who test positive for HIV may be executed

• Homosexuals who have sex with a minor, or engage in homosexual sex more than once, may also receive the death penalty

• The bill forbids the "promotion of homosexuality," which in effect bans organizations working in HIV and AIDS prevention

• Anyone who knows of homosexual activity taking place but does not report it would risk up to three years in prison
Apparently people haven't read this ^ (from the article), "executed for being gay" is not what it says. Having gay sex AND being tested positive for HIV means they MAY be executed. You may want to consider the bias of the article before getting too flustered.

Some other interesting quotes:
Quote:
Homosexuality is already illegal in Uganda under colonial-era laws.
Quote:
It has the blessing of many religious leaders -- Muslim and Christian -- in a country where a July poll found 95 percent opposed to legalizing homosexuality.
It comes to modern and western countries generally being more accepting of others (sexuality, cultures, religions, tastes, etc), whereas you have to realise most of the other countries are pre-industrial, when our countries were in the same spot homosexuality was still frowned upon. Which is often why those countries argue against the first world saying "you're trying to force first world believes onto us, etc". Which is a valid argument, but the fact that the bill doesn't follow human rights is quite the counter-argument.


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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 27th 2010, 11:19 PM

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Originally Posted by CompassionateSoul View Post
Where to draw the line is exactly the problem lawmakers have, it will constantly be argued over, and it gets complicated when religion is involved as well. You say if it's part of their culture, it doesn't make it ok, yet you say people should be allowed to do honor killings because it's part of their culture? Maybe I misunderstood.
.
no, my point was whats the difference? if were saying that this should be allowed surely we are also saying that honour killings should be allowed. Thats also religion as well as culture, and several of the major religions practice it, so if were saying its ok to killpeople who are gay because its against there relgion, why shouldn't people in this country who belong to a religion which allows it be allowed to do that?




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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - January 27th 2010, 11:46 PM

Honor killings are cultural, they are not encouraged by Islam, it's a common misconception.

Quote:
None of the world's major religions condone honour-related crimes.
But perpetrators have sometimes tried to justify their actions on religious grounds.
Leaders of the world's faiths have also strongly denounced a connection between religion and honour killings.
Source
Personally, I think they're crimes, and they are considered so by every government on the planet, but anyway, back to topic.

Nobody is saying it's OK. Ugandans approve because the religions they are surrounded by condemn it.

Christian countries like the UK, USA and Canada don't follow the bible that closely and say "homosexuality should be illegal" because these societies are much more developed, belief systems have become broader through the decades, whereas countries like Uganda haven't gone through those changes, they are still ruled (not literally) by religion. It's a little foolish of others around the world to try and get them to see things like we do, it won't happen overnight, we will have more luck doing it through the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.


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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - February 2nd 2010, 09:31 PM

Plain stupid bill. What should we expect from an underdeveloped country. All i can say is if this happens in the US (which it never will), Im leaving.


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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - February 2nd 2010, 10:33 PM

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Originally Posted by CompassionateSoul View Post
Honor killings are cultural, they are not encouraged by Islam, it's a common misconception.

Personally, I think they're crimes, and they are considered so by every government on the planet, but anyway, back to topic.

Nobody is saying it's OK. Ugandans approve because the religions they are surrounded by condemn it.

Christian countries like the UK, USA and Canada don't follow the bible that closely and say "homosexuality should be illegal" because these societies are much more developed, belief systems have become broader through the decades, whereas countries like Uganda haven't gone through those changes, they are still ruled (not literally) by religion. It's a little foolish of others around the world to try and get them to see things like we do, it won't happen overnight, we will have more luck doing it through the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
To be fair, a lot of policy in America is still influenced by religious ideas. More cetainly than most other first world countries. It's less extreme and more subtle, but it's definitely there.

Also, I feel obliged to point out that, while Canada follows the US in many ways, it is not a Christian country. As far as politics go, we don't follow the bible at all, nor any text from any religion. Personally, I'm glad for it.


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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - February 10th 2010, 04:48 AM

There's been an interesting development since the last post, well, I think it's interesting, as Obama is finally throwing a little weight around on the international stage.

US President Barack Obama has criticised as "odious" proposed anti-homosexuality legislation in Uganda.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8498836.stm

Quote:
It is "unconscionable to target gays and lesbians for who they are," he told politicians and religious leaders at a prayer breakfast in Washington.
Quote:
We may disagree about gay marriage," Mr Obama told the annual National Prayer Breakfast, "but surely we can agree that it is unconscionable to target gays and lesbians for who they are, whether it is here in the United States or... more extremely, in odious laws that are being proposed more recently in Uganda."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xujhan View Post
Also, I feel obliged to point out that, while Canada follows the US in many ways, it is not a Christian country. As far as politics go, we don't follow the bible at all, nor any text from any religion. Personally, I'm glad for it.
I didn't realise Canada had no official religion, even so, Christianity is the most common religion in the country. You second point mirrors my understanding. I can't think of a western country that follows the bible so closely in it's politics.

Ugandan laws are harsh enough on the subject. I hope Europe and the US can put enough pressure on Uganda, otherwise, as I said, it would be helpful to get the UN involved.


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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - February 11th 2010, 03:21 AM

I might sound rude saying this but it is something that happens in nature, in a species of animals they kill the weak and "abnormal" and leave only the strong. It's how nature keeps its strong genes.

While it may not seem appropriate to many humans, it is what it is. It's a race of animals (yes humans are animals) who are trying to rid what they believe to be abnormalities and the weak.

Thats how they live, its their choice.

Quote:
I didn't realise Canada had no official religion, even so, Christianity is the most common religion in the country. You second point mirrors my understanding. I can't think of a western country that follows the bible so closely in it's politics.
Come visit for a while, and youll realize how multicultural canada is. There is no majority religion in this country.
   
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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - February 11th 2010, 03:48 AM

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Originally Posted by AlkalineTears View Post
I might sound rude saying this but it is something that happens in nature, in a species of animals they kill the weak and "abnormal" and leave only the strong. It's how nature keeps its strong genes.

While it may not seem appropriate to many humans, it is what it is. It's a race of animals (yes humans are animals) who are trying to rid what they believe to be abnormalities and the weak.

Thats how they live, its their choice.
*High five for Fascism*

Ok so this is a bit extreme for my tastes, even with how Fascistic (is that a word) I am. I may disagree with gay marriage and such but this is a bit... much.


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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - February 12th 2010, 10:29 PM

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Originally Posted by Guile View Post
*High five for Fascism*

Ok so this is a bit extreme for my tastes, even with how Fascistic (is that a word) I am. I may disagree with gay marriage and such but this is a bit... much.

Well I'm glad you think so Guile. I'm glad that your homophobia has its limits ^^


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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - February 13th 2010, 05:42 AM

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Well I'm glad you think so Guile. I'm glad that your homophobia has its limits ^^
^^ Thank you, I think... I'm not homophobic though, that would imply I am afraid of homosexuals. I am just a Fascist Southern Baptist, as such I politically, and religiously, don't believe in gay marriage.


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Re: Anti-Homosexuality Bill in Uganda - February 14th 2010, 06:46 PM

Here is a copy of the actual text of the Bill if anyone wants to read it.

http://wthrockmorton.com/wp-content/...-bill-2009.pdf
   
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