Obama the One Term President

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Guile

Incorrect, war creates jobs, which helps the economy. We are winning this fight and liberating people from the tyranny of dictators, not to mention protecting ourselves from the terrorist threat abroad.

Lol broken window fallacy.

[Nymous]

Originally Posted by Guile

Incorrect, war creates jobs, which helps the economy. We are winning this fight and liberating people from the tyranny of dictators, not to mention protecting ourselves from the terrorist threat abroad.

Firstly, I think you are completely right telling war creates jobs. It has always been like that. Why wouldn't we in Europe start a war again, we have such a problems; we need more jobs! Oh, yes, of course. Because during the war it creates jobs, but after the war there is always an economical crisis. If not in the winning countries, it will be in the other countries. I don't know if WWI and WWII created such an economical crisis in US, but in Europe it did. It was a real drama.
Secondly, you are liberating who? Who do you mean? People in the Islamitic countries? In Iran? Irak? Palestina? No, I don't think so. In Israël, yes. I correct you. You are killing civilians in muslim countries and you only save the Jews, who caused the homicide against Palestina.

[Oiseau the Little Bird!]

http://mediamatters.org/research/201001270003

Now, just to clarify, I didn't vote for Obama. Just playing the advocate here.
Also, I think it was Holly, did you say that he was going to give all the immigrants green cards so they could become citizens? Documentation of this is necessary to gain my belief, and then to critisize this grand idea.

[dr2005]

I think any prospective president is going to struggle so long as there are so many means by which the party in opposition (or members of the incumbent to be fair) can blatantly obstruct bills going before the House of Representatives or Senate on purely procedural grounds. Frankly, I would love to know who thought the filibuster in the Senate was a good idea. I mean, come on...how is THAT democratic? Same goes for other countries where they have this while I'm at it...

But I digress...I think it's way too early to say whether Obama is likely to get re-elected. At present I'd say his chances are as good as anyone else's. It all depends whether he can work with Congress to make the changes he was voted in on.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Oiseau the Little Bird!

http://mediamatters.org/research/201001270003

Obama's first year in office has been marked by a series of significant achievements, including creating jobs as a result of the economic stimulus, eliminating wasteful spending

Haha. I hardly think you can simultaneously claim stimulus and cutting wasteful spending as sucesses.

[EightEleven91]

Id rather him than Gordon Bore off Brown.

[✖Ice✖]

No jobs so far in the Economy have been created

More people are geting laid off.

[Oiseau the Little Bird!]

Okay, but can anyone verify that Obama was going to distribute greencards to immigrants in this country? I feel like this almost like the time people said that Obama was going to give illegal immigrants free healthcare.

[DeadlySin]

Honestly, Obama just made me dislike America more than I already do.

[✖Ice✖]

Originally Posted by DeadlySin

Honestly, Obama just made me dislike America more than I already do.

.............

[Gram Negative]

Originally Posted by Ares

No jobs so far in the Economy have been created

More people are geting laid off.

Less people have been getting laid off every month. If there was no stimulus or TARP then the unemployment rate would probably have been around 25%, just like during The Great Depression.

Today: unemployment rate was lower than expected. Less jobs were lost than expected. Consumer credit increased more than expected. Wages rose.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

Less people have been getting laid off every month.

Proof of causation? Also, you mean unsustainable industries are cutting their resource consumption at a slower rate?

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

If there was no stimulus or TARP then the unemployment rate would probably have been around 25%, just like during The Great Depression.

Interesting fact: Due to the current unemployment figures ommiting those no longer seeking work due to discouragement from entering the workforce, today's figures and those from the GD aren't all that different.

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

Today: unemployment rate was lower than expected.

Wasn't it predicted it would be lower than it is currently?

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

Less jobs were lost than expected.

See above point.

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

Consumer credit increased more than expected.

Just what we need more of, the same artificially cheap credit that got us into this mess.

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

Wages rose.

Not necessarily a good thing in a time of increasing unemployment.

[Gram Negative]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Proof of causation? Also, you mean unsustainable industries are cutting their resource consumption at a slower rate?

So 100% of jobs created are from unsustainable industries? Like my industry? My current department got a ton of money from the stimulus. We got millions to get more ridiculously expensive experiment (which is made and serviced by US residents) people to train in biomedical research. My lab is partially funded by that bill and in a few months I start grad school because I got a ton of experience with biochem, molecular biology, biophysics, etc.....

My boss literally bought a 55k machine so that I could do research and in a few months we'll get a new multimillion dollar machine for x ray crystallography. All of this is funded by the stimulus.

Originally Posted by Frosty

Interesting fact: Due to the current unemployment figures ommiting those no longer seeking work due to discouragement from entering the workforce, today's figures and those from the GD aren't all that different.

Not all that different? So what is the % difference between those figures?

Originally Posted by Frosty

Wasn't it predicted it would be lower than it is currently?

Yes. You mean earlier last year?

Originally Posted by Frosty

Just what we need more of, the same artificially cheap credit that got us into this mess.

How is it artificially cheap credit? If people are getting back their jobs and wages are rising...

Originally Posted by Frosty

Not necessarily a good thing in a time of increasing unemployment.

Yes but it is increasing while at the same time job losses are decreasing.

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

So 100% of jobs created are from unsustainable industries? Like my industry? My current department got a ton of money from the stimulus. We got millions to get more ridiculously expensive experiment (which is made and serviced by US residents) people to train in biomedical research. My lab is partially funded by that bill and in a few months I start grad school because I got a ton of experience with biochem, molecular biology, biophysics, etc.....

My boss literally bought a 55k machine so that I could do research and in a few months we'll get a new multimillion dollar machine for x ray crystallography. All of this is funded by the stimulus.

Much of that resource use probably is unsustainable if it was only funded through government throwing money around.

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

Not all that different? So what is the % difference between those figures?

First graph on the main page.

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

Yes. You mean earlier last year?

Predictions were probably from sometime last year yeah.

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

How is it artificially cheap credit? If people are getting back their jobs and wages are rising...

Because the government (central bank to be specific) is running hugely expansionary monetary policy i.e. cheap credit. Your second sentance doesn't even make sense in the context.

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

Yes but it is increasing while at the same time job losses are decreasing.

And unemployment is still high?

[Gram Negative]

Originally Posted by Frosty

Much of that resource use probably is unsustainable if it was only funded through government throwing money around.

So you are saying it is a waste of time to help people get into the biomedical field?

Originally Posted by Frosty

First graph on the main page.

Ummm.... That is one guy that is pushing his own numbers on the net... Has even discussed this with other experts?

Originally Posted by Frosty

Predictions were probably from sometime last year yeah.

Yep. So if the situation changes should they keep to the point or adapt?

Originally Posted by Frosty

Because the government (central bank to be specific) is running hugely expansionary monetary policy i.e. cheap credit. Your second sentance doesn't even make sense in the context.

So what should they do?

Originally Posted by Frosty

And unemployment is still high?

And it would probably be even higher if not for the TARP or stimulus.

[Algernon]

Originally Posted by Yen

What's sad is I know you're not being sarcastic .

How is he trying to ruin the country?

I know exactly what you mean Eyen

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

So you are saying it is a waste of time to help people get into the biomedical field?

They shouldn't be using resources to get anyone into any field, because it necessarily takes resources away from areas they could be more effeciently used.

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

Ummm.... That is one guy that is pushing his own numbers on the net... Has even discussed this with other experts?

Do you take issue with the idea that eliminating those discouraged from working will fudge the unemployment numbers to make everything look better?

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

Yep. So if the situation changes should they keep to the point or adapt?

What are you trying to get at? You're the one who said how great Obama is because unemployment is below the predictions. Are only those that paint Obama in a good light valid predictions for you?

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

So what should they do?

Umm... Not artificially expand the money supply and credit?

Originally Posted by Gram Negative

And it would probably be even higher if not for the TARP or stimulus.

1. You can't prove causation from correlation.

2. Even if you could, unemployment is merely a qualitative statistic, it can't tell us whether those jobs are sustainable or a result of unsustainable government monetary or fiscal expansion. Unemployment before the crash was low, doesn't mean the economy was in good shape.

[Phin]

I'm curious for who's going to be on the ballot in 2012.

[Dr. Gregory House]

Hm... I find it interesting that you're talking about the current job market. It still pretty much sucks - my boyfriend has been applying for job after job for the past few months and has gotten nothing. The same with my brother.
HOWEVER - I have noticed that there are more people getting a job where I currently work. The problem is... The more people we hire, the less hours we get because the company can't afford to staff a lot of people because they're not making as much money as we used to. I've actually been called by my boss and told not to come in because they overscheduled. In all honesty, I'd rather less people work there overall so that I -can- get the hours I need to support myself. Overhiring can be just as much of a problem.

[Guile]

Originally Posted by Nymous

Firstly, I think you are completely right telling war creates jobs. It has always been like that. Why wouldn't we in Europe start a war again, we have such a problems; we need more jobs! Oh, yes, of course. Because during the war it creates jobs, but after the war there is always an economical crisis. If not in the winning countries, it will be in the other countries. I don't know if WWI and WWII created such an economical crisis in US, but in Europe it did. It was a real drama.
Secondly, you are liberating who? Who do you mean? People in the Islamitic countries? In Iran? Irak? Palestina? No, I don't think so. In Israël, yes. I correct you. You are killing civilians in muslim countries and you only save the Jews, who caused the homicide against Palestina.

If you have read ANY of my other threads in the political debate area you will know I hate Israel with all my heart, and I fully support the Palestinians.

[Nymous]

Originally Posted by Guile

If you have read ANY of my other threads in the political debate area you will know I hate Israel with all my heart, and I fully support the Palestinians.

Do you? Well, I'm very happy with that, personally, but it has nothing to do with what you said before. You said that the American army is helping the people over there. But trust me, they are only fighting for Israel, for the Jews. They dislike the palestinians as much as do the jews.
Why do you think I'm manifestating for every year? For more cookies? No, to stop America's violence against Palestinians. Why do you think that I scream every year as loud as I can: 'Israel, casses-toi, la Palestine n'est pas a toi' (Israel, go away, Palestina is not yours)?

[Willow.]

Originally Posted by Nymous

Firstly, I think you are completely right telling war creates jobs. It has always been like that. Why wouldn't we in Europe start a war again, we have such a problems; we need more jobs! Oh, yes, of course. Because during the war it creates jobs, but after the war there is always an economical crisis. If not in the winning countries, it will be in the other countries. I don't know if WWI and WWII created such an economical crisis in US, but in Europe it did. It was a real drama.
Secondly, you are liberating who? Who do you mean? People in the Islamitic countries? In Iran? Irak? Palestina? No, I don't think so. In Israël, yes. I correct you. You are killing civilians in muslim countries and you only save the Jews, who caused the homicide against Palestina.

Okay. Well. I don't exactly think that the way to obtain more jobs is to start another war.. If that's what you're saying. I mean, the US is already in debt as is, so another war would just be financially dumb. Plus, we are already in a war. Also, in response to the WW1 and WW2 thing. Of course it created an economical crisis for the US. The Great depression. The stock market. Those wars really kind of shaped our country. And the last bit, I don't fully understand what you mean. Your post was a little difficult to read and understand.

[Nymous]

Originally Posted by Lyndsee

Okay. Well. I don't exactly think that the way to obtain more jobs is to start another war.. If that's what you're saying. I mean, the US is already in debt as is, so another war would just be financially dumb. Plus, we are already in a war. Also, in response to the WW1 and WW2 thing. Of course it created an economical crisis for the US. The Great depression. The stock market. Those wars really kind of shaped our country. And the last bit, I don't fully understand what you mean. Your post was a little difficult to read and understand.

Yes, I'm sorry for that, I will try to write more in correct English, but it's not always easy (knowing three languages isn't easy).
But anyhow, that was cynical. I don't want to start another war to obtain more jobs. Because firstly, it would be completely unethical, and secondly, there will be more jobs during the war, but after the war there's always an economical an social depression.
Again, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

[Phin]

Originally Posted by Nymous

Do you? Well, I'm very happy with that, personally, but it has nothing to do with what you said before. You said that the American army is helping the people over there. But trust me, they are only fighting for Israel, for the Jews. They dislike the palestinians as much as do the jews.
Why do you think I'm manifestating for every year? For more cookies? No, to stop America's violence against Palestinians. Why do you think that I scream every year as loud as I can: 'Israel, casses-toi, la Palestine n'est pas a toi' (Israel, go away, Palestina is not yours)?

Dear God, you must be joking.

There is no 'Palestine' and there never has been. It was British owned land that a few Muslim refugee tribes decided upon themselves to settle upon. The British had every right to give it to the Jews who were just recovering from decades of persecution including the recent Holocaust.
NOT TO MENTION that they could have (and still could!) live together in peace if the Hamas (who the Palestinians elected as their government) did not continue to attack and send rockets over the boarder into hospitals and schools, etc.

There will be peace when and only when Palestinian mothers love their children more than they hate Jews.

Do you have any idea of the ideologies? Are you familiar with Farfour? It is the Palestinian depiction of Mickey Mouse-- It is a show where this character tells children to hate Jews, and to martyr themselves in order to kill them. It is DISGUSTING and HEINOUS. Are you aware that they believe that if they kill themselves to murder a Jew, they will go to 'heaven' and get '72 Virgins?' And mothers are oh-so-proud when their sons do this for them.

Now with Israel-- they treat the Palestinian enemies in their own hospitals, they have provided the world with endless necessities such as cell phones, instant messaging, the first non-radiation cure to breast cancer, and more.

If you want to hate and boycott Israel, do it right:.

Check all your medications. Make sure that you do not have tablets, drops, lotions, etc., made by Abic or Teva. It may mean that you will suffer from colds and flu this winter but, hey, that's a small price for you to pay in your campaign against Israel, isn't it?

While we are on the subject of your Israeli boycott, and the medical contributions to the world made by Israeli doctors and scientists, how about telling your pals to boycott the following.....

An Israeli company has developed a simple blood test that distinguishes between mild and more severe cases of Multiple Sclerosis. So, if you know anyone suffering from MS, tell them to ignore the Israeli patent that may,
more accurately, diagnose their symptoms.

An Israeli-made device helps restore the use of paralyzed hands.
This device electrically stimulates the hand muscles, providing hope to millions of stroke sufferers and victims of spinal injuries. If you wish to remove this hope of a better quality of life to these people, go ahead and boycott Israel.

Young children with breathing problems will soon be sleeping more soundly, thanks to a new Israeli device called the Child Hood. This innovation replaces the inhalation mask with an improved drug delivery system that provides relief for child and parent. Please tell anxious mothers that they shouldn't use this device because of your passionate cause.

These are just a few examples of how people have benefited medically from the Israeli know-how you wish to block. Boycotts often affect research.
A new research center in Israel hopes to throw light on brain disorders such as depression and Alzheimer's disease. The Joseph Sangol Neuroscience Center in the Sheba Medical Center at Tel HaShomer Hospital, aims to bring thousands of scientists and doctors to focus on brain research.

A researcher at Israel's Ben Gurion University has succeeded in creating human monoclonal antibodies which can neutralize the highly contagious smallpox virus without inducing the dangerous side effects of the existing vaccine.

Two Israelis received the 2004 Nobel Prize in Chemistry. Doctors Ciechanover and Hershko's research and discovery of one of the human cells most important cyclical processes will lead the way to DNA repair, control of newly produced proteins, and immune defense systems.

The Movement Disorder Surgery program at Israel's Hadassah Medical Center has successfully eliminated the physical manifestations of Parkinson's disease in a select group of patients with a deep brain stimulation technique.
For women who undergo hysterectomies each year for the treatment of uterine fibroids, the development in Israel of the Ex Ablate 2000 System is a welcome breakthrough, offering a noninvasive alternative to surgery.

Israel is developing a nose drop that will provide a five year flu vaccine.
These are just a few of the projects that you can help stop with your Israeli boycott.

But let's not get too obsessed with my ducal research, there are other ways you can make a personal sacrifice with your anti-Israel boycott. Most of Windows operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel. So, set a personal example. Throw away your computer!

Computers should have a sign attached saying Israel Inside. The Pentium NMX Chip technology was designed at Intel in Israel. Both the Pentium 4 microprocessor and the Centrum processor were entirely designed,
developed, and produced in Israel. Voice mail technology was developed in Israel. The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996 in Israel by four young Israeli whiz kids.

Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R. & D. facilities outside the US in Israel.So, due to your complete boycott of anything Israeli, you now have poor health and no computer. But your bad news does not end there. Get rid of your cellular phone. Cell phone technology was also developed in Israel by MOTOROLA which has its biggest development center in Israel. Most of the latest technology in your mobile phone was developed by Israeli scientists.

Feeling unsettled? You should be. Part of your personal security rests with Israeli inventiveness, borne out of our urgent necessity to protect and defend our lives from the terrorists you support.

A phone can remotely activate a bomb, or be used for tactical communications by terrorists, bank robbers, or hostage-takers. It is vital that official security and law enforcement authorities have access to cellular jamming and detection solutions. Enter Israel's Net line Communications Technologies with their security expertise to help the fight against terror.
SO ALL THE NOISE ABOUT THE USA LISTENING TO OUR PRIVATE TELEPHONE CALLS, YOU SHOULD KNOW IT IS ISRAEL WHO IS DOING THE LISTENING FOR US.

They are the ones that thwarted Saddam Hussein's first plan to obtain and pose a threat to Western society with nuclear weapons, rendering the campaign inert. They did the same in Syria, and I wouldn't be surprised if they saved us from Iran as well.

What has "Palestine" done? Right, bitch about how Israel supposedly belongs to them 50 years later, even though the Jews were the first there-- That's why it's called JERUSALEM.. The holiest place in Jewish religion, and second in Christian... and has nothing to do with Islam what-so-ever.

In short, 'hating israel' is one of the most ignorant opinions to ever tread the vacant corners of a person's mind. Please, PLEASE become enlightened as to what is actually going on in the world, I beg of you.

[Nymous]

Originally Posted by Phin

Dear God, you must be joking.

There is no 'Palestine' and there never has been. It was British owned land that a few Muslim refugee tribes decided upon themselves to settle upon. The British had every right to give it to the Jews who were just recovering from decades of persecution including the recent Holocaust.
NOT TO MENTION that they could have (and still could!) live together in peace if the Hamas (who the Palestinians elected as their government) did not continue to attack and send rockets over the boarder into hospitals and schools, etc.

There will be peace when and only when Palestinian mothers love their children more than they hate Jews.

Do you have any idea of the ideologies? Are you familiar with Farfour? It is the Palestinian depiction of Mickey Mouse-- It is a show where this character tells children to hate Jews, and to martyr themselves in order to kill them. It is DISGUSTING and HEINOUS. Are you aware that they believe that if they kill themselves to murder a Jew, they will go to 'heaven' and get '72 Virgins?' And mothers are oh-so-proud when their sons do this for them.

Now with Israel-- they treat the Palestinian enemies in their own hospitals, they have provided the world with endless necessities such as cell phones, instant messaging, the first non-radiation cure to breast cancer, and more.

If you want to hate and boycott Israel, do it right:.

Check all your medications. Make sure that you do not have tablets, drops, lotions, etc., made by Abic or Teva. It may mean that you will suffer from colds and flu this winter but, hey, that's a small price for you to pay in your campaign against Israel, isn't it?

While we are on the subject of your Israeli boycott, and the medical contributions to the world made by Israeli doctors and scientists, how about telling your pals to boycott the following.....

An Israeli company has developed a simple blood test that distinguishes between mild and more severe cases of Multiple Sclerosis. So, if you know anyone suffering from MS, tell them to ignore the Israeli patent that may,
more accurately, diagnose their symptoms.

An Israeli-made device helps restore the use of paralyzed hands.
This device electrically stimulates the hand muscles, providing hope to millions of stroke sufferers and victims of spinal injuries. If you wish to remove this hope of a better quality of life to these people, go ahead and boycott Israel.

Young children with breathing problems will soon be sleeping more soundly, thanks to a new Israeli device called the Child Hood. This innovation replaces the inhalation mask with an improved drug delivery system that provides relief for child and parent. Please tell anxious mothers that they shouldn't use this device because of your passionate cause.

These are just a few examples of how people have benefited medically from the Israeli know-how you wish to block. Boycotts often affect research.
A new research center in Israel hopes to throw light on brain disorders such as depression and Alzheimer's disease. The Joseph Sangol Neuroscience Center in the Sheba Medical Center at Tel HaShomer Hospital, aims to bring thousands of scientists and doctors to focus on brain research.

A researcher at Israel's Ben Gurion University has succeeded in creating human monoclonal antibodies which can neutralize the highly contagious smallpox virus without inducing the dangerous side effects of the existing vaccine.

Two Israelis received the 2004 Nobel Prize in Chemistry. Doctors Ciechanover and Hershko's research and discovery of one of the human cells most important cyclical processes will lead the way to DNA repair, control of newly produced proteins, and immune defense systems.

The Movement Disorder Surgery program at Israel's Hadassah Medical Center has successfully eliminated the physical manifestations of Parkinson's disease in a select group of patients with a deep brain stimulation technique.
For women who undergo hysterectomies each year for the treatment of uterine fibroids, the development in Israel of the Ex Ablate 2000 System is a welcome breakthrough, offering a noninvasive alternative to surgery.

Israel is developing a nose drop that will provide a five year flu vaccine.
These are just a few of the projects that you can help stop with your Israeli boycott.

But let's not get too obsessed with my ducal research, there are other ways you can make a personal sacrifice with your anti-Israel boycott. Most of Windows operating systems were developed by Microsoft-Israel. So, set a personal example. Throw away your computer!

Computers should have a sign attached saying Israel Inside. The Pentium NMX Chip technology was designed at Intel in Israel. Both the Pentium 4 microprocessor and the Centrum processor were entirely designed,
developed, and produced in Israel. Voice mail technology was developed in Israel. The technology for the AOL Instant Messenger ICQ was developed in 1996 in Israel by four young Israeli whiz kids.

Both Microsoft and Cisco built their only R. & D. facilities outside the US in Israel.So, due to your complete boycott of anything Israeli, you now have poor health and no computer. But your bad news does not end there. Get rid of your cellular phone. Cell phone technology was also developed in Israel by MOTOROLA which has its biggest development center in Israel. Most of the latest technology in your mobile phone was developed by Israeli scientists.

Feeling unsettled? You should be. Part of your personal security rests with Israeli inventiveness, borne out of our urgent necessity to protect and defend our lives from the terrorists you support.

A phone can remotely activate a bomb, or be used for tactical communications by terrorists, bank robbers, or hostage-takers. It is vital that official security and law enforcement authorities have access to cellular jamming and detection solutions. Enter Israel's Net line Communications Technologies with their security expertise to help the fight against terror.
SO ALL THE NOISE ABOUT THE USA LISTENING TO OUR PRIVATE TELEPHONE CALLS, YOU SHOULD KNOW IT IS ISRAEL WHO IS DOING THE LISTENING FOR US.

They are the ones that thwarted Saddam Hussein's first plan to obtain and pose a threat to Western society with nuclear weapons, rendering the campaign inert. They did the same in Syria, and I wouldn't be surprised if they saved us from Iran as well.

What has "Palestine" done? Right, bitch about how Israel supposedly belongs to them 50 years later, even though the Jews were the first there-- That's why it's called JERUSALEM.. The holiest place in Jewish religion, and second in Christian... and has nothing to do with Islam what-so-ever.

In short, 'hating israel' is one of the most ignorant opinions to ever tread the vacant corners of a person's mind. Please, PLEASE become enlightened as to what is actually going on in the world, I beg of you.

Firstly, I have to correct you; there IS actually a Palestina. It was not a real colony of Britain, Britain only had it as a mandate country. This means that Britain had to make sure that Palestina could evoluate to a good country, and that Palestina could be independent after a few years. The only problem is: the Jews were mad because of the holocaust. So what did they do? They came to Palestina and said: 'This is our country, now!' They did manslaughter in that country, just like Hitler did with the Jews. Only because of their religion.
So please, think of this: imagine that you live somewhere in a beautiful, quit peaceful country. There has been a World War in another continent because Jews were slaughtered and because of Hitler. Your country has nothing to do with it. Suddenly, after the war, the Jews of the country next to yours, are coming in your country and say: this is our country. How would you react? Would you be happy? Would you let them slaughter your family, your wife and children? Would you let that happen? No.

Secondly, I admit that the Jews of Israel made excellent medicine inventions, however I don't use drugs. But I wonder: which car do you drive? What do you think of 'Volkswagen'? Beautiful cars, aren't they? Well, they were invented by Hitler. I don't think you like Hitler.
And I'm sure that you regularly drive on Autobahns. Well, Hitler invented the first real autobahns. Are you going to say: I don't drive on them anymore, they were invented by a dictator? No.

Thirdly, I never ever told you that I was boycotting Israël. Okay, I don't drink things of Coca-Cola because they are helping Israël, and I don't eat anything from Israël, but honestly, I don't make myself ill by boycotting Israël.
Off topic: I don't need medicines for surviving the winter, however I have been ill and I have had many colds.

[Phin]

Originally Posted by Nymous

Firstly, I have to correct you; there IS actually a Palestina. It was not a real colony of Britain, Britain only had it as a mandate country. This means that Britain had to make sure that Palestina could evoluate to a good country, and that Palestina could be independent after a few years. The only problem is: the Jews were mad because of the holocaust. So what did they do? They came to Palestina and said: 'This is our country, now!' They did manslaughter in that country, just like Hitler did with the Jews. Only because of their religion.
So please, think of this: imagine that you live somewhere in a beautiful, quit peaceful country. There has been a World War in another continent because Jews were slaughtered and because of Hitler. Your country has nothing to do with it. Suddenly, after the war, the Jews of the country next to yours, are coming in your country and say: this is our country. How would you react? Would you be happy? Would you let them slaughter your family, your wife and children? Would you let that happen? No.

Secondly, I admit that the Jews of Israel made excellent medicine inventions, however I don't use drugs. But I wonder: which car do you drive? What do you think of 'Volkswagen'? Beautiful cars, aren't they? Well, they were invented by Hitler. I don't think you like Hitler.
And I'm sure that you regularly drive on Autobahns. Well, Hitler invented the first real autobahns. Are you going to say: I don't drive on them anymore, they were invented by a dictator? No.

Thirdly, I never ever told you that I was boycotting Israël. Okay, I don't drink things of Coca-Cola because they are helping Israël, and I don't eat anything from Israël, but honestly, I don't make myself ill by boycotting Israël.
Off topic: I don't need medicines for surviving the winter, however I have been ill and I have had many colds.

First paragraph is frankly complete and utter bull shit. The British GAVE the land to the Jews. The Jews didn't say "This is our country now!" And they did not slaughter anyone, they attempted to live alongside in peace...
THE ARABS caused the War For Independence by suddenly and deliberately attacking Israel on all boarders. It is not "slaughter" to defend your country when it is attacked. And please, the moment you compare something to Hitler, you already lose the debate.
NOTHING and NO ONE is like Hitler in civilized society. I have family members who were wiped out in the Holocaust. What happened in Israel (an attempt to co-exist, thwarted by the Palestinians) was nothing like the Holocaust... don't even go there. Honestly, you are making things up. Absolutely nothing backs the claims you are making.

Are you kidding? Germany invent Volkswagen and Aurobahns, not Hitler. And I did I ever say I hate Germany? No! That's a laughable point you're trying to make. It doesn't even make the slightest bit of sense.

Well, well, well. Usually the term HATE depicts a desire for eradication. If you don't want to eradicate Israel or wish they never existed (which would be kissing all your beloved medicine and technology good-by) then you clearly do not hate Israel. You are just severely misguided on the subject.

[Nymous]

Originally Posted by Phin

Are you kidding? Germany invent Volkswagen and Aurobahns, not Hitler. And I did I ever say I hate Germany? No! That's a laughable point you're trying to make. It doesn't even make the slightest bit of sense.

Well, well, well. Usually the term HATE depicts a desire for eradication. If you don't want to eradicate Israel or wish they never existed (which would be kissing all your beloved medicine and technology good-by) then you clearly do not hate Israel. You are just severely misguided on the subject.

Hitler ordered to invent the Volkswagen. It was his idea. It was also his ideas to make Autobahns. And I never said that you hait Germany, I said that I don't think you like Hitler. That's not the same. I hate Hitler, but I don't hate Germany.

Please, don't talk to me like to a little kid. Okay, okay, you are right: I don't hait Israel. I don't hate any country. I don't the Jews who hate Muslims and I hate the Jews who kill Palestinian.
And before you tell me that I'm misguided on the subject, go and talk to the Palestinian civilians and come and talk to the Palestinian fegugees over here. Explain them that they are terrorists and that it's their own fault that there's war in Gaza.

Above that, it's bullshit to say that every Palestinian kid is raised to be a terrorist and to hate and kill Jews so that they will have 72 virgins in heaven. There's a minority who is terrorist. And yes, a lot of kids in Palestina will hate the Jews. Of course! How would you think when you see your friends or brothers killed by Jews, and how would you be when you would see your sister raped by Jew-soldiers?

[Phin]

Originally Posted by Nymous

Hitler ordered to invent the Volkswagen. It was his idea. It was also his ideas to make Autobahns. And I never said that you hait Germany, I said that I don't think you like Hitler. That's not the same. I hate Hitler, but I don't hate Germany.

Please, don't talk to me like to a little kid. Okay, okay, you are right: I don't hait Israel. I don't hate any country. I don't the Jews who hate Muslims and I hate the Jews who kill Palestinian.
And before you tell me that I'm misguided on the subject, go and talk to the Palestinian civilians and come and talk to the Palestinian fegugees over here. Explain them that they are terrorists and that it's their own fault that there's war in Gaza.

Above that, it's bullshit to say that every Palestinian kid is raised to be a terrorist and to hate and kill Jews so that they will have 72 virgins in heaven. There's a minority who is terrorist. And yes, a lot of kids in Palestina will hate the Jews. Of course! How would you think when you see your friends or brothers killed by Jews, and how would you be when you would see your sister raped by Jew-soldiers?

That point still serves no purpose. At least you hate Hitler.

I am not sure you understand the extent of the influence of the terrorist's and extremist's culture. Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0gBT...eature=related
It is the interview/story of a Lebanese woman's experiences with the Muslims and Palestine. It's a sad, sad story. THIS is what the freed ones have to say about it... the ones who have gone beyond the brain washing. PLEASE watch and listen to the entire thing. It's really touching.

The story she tells at the end continues here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sL54...eature=related

PLEASE WATCH.

No one said every one is raised to be a terrorist. Mainly that many of them ARE being taught to hate Jews and feel that way through aspects such as Farfour and basically brain washing into thinking Israel and America is evil.
If my friends and brothers were trying to send rockets into Israel and harm innocent people-- into hospitals, schools, etc, then I would be ashamed of them; Not the Israeli soldier who stopped them in order to save innocent civilians.

[Nymous]

Originally Posted by Phin

No one said every one is raised to be a terrorist. Mainly that many of them ARE being taught to hate Jews and feel that way through aspects such as Farfour and basically brain washing into thinking Israel and America is evil.
If my friends and brothers were trying to send rockets into Israel and harm innocent people-- into hospitals, schools, etc, then I would be ashamed of them; Not the Israeli soldier who stopped them in order to save innocent civilians.

But I don't say I like the violence over there. I hate the violence of the Jews against the Muslims as well as I hate the violence from Muslims against Jews.
Don't think that I don't hate it when innocent civilian Jews are killed. I find it awful. I feel pain when I see that another bomb has killed so many innocent Jews. But it's wrong to think that all the Palestinian Muslims want the violence against Jews.
Please listen to this: the only thing I want, is peace. I don't want any civilian to die. But I understand it when people aren't happy when their country is taken over by another country. If Belgium (my country) would be attacked by France, or England or Germany or the Netherlands, I would go in the Resistance. But I would never ever go in a resistant organisation that is throwing bombs and killing civilians.

[Phin]

Originally Posted by Nymous

But I don't say I like the violence over there. I hate the violence of the Jews against the Muslims as well as I hate the violence from Muslims against Jews.
Don't think that I don't hate it when innocent civilian Jews are killed. I find it awful. I feel pain when I see that another bomb has killed so many innocent Jews. But it's wrong to think that all the Palestinian Muslims want the violence against Jews.
Please listen to this: the only thing I want, is peace. I don't want any civilian to die. But I understand it when people aren't happy when their country is taken over by another country. If Belgium (my country) would be attacked by France, or England or Germany or the Netherlands, I would go in the Resistance. But I would never ever go in a resistant organisation that is throwing bombs and killing civilians.

I understand that-- I obviously do not approve of Israelis killing civilians either, though it is MUCH more of an anomaly than Palestinians killing Israeli civilians. That is one of the main differences in the cultures. Israel goes though extremes to ensure minimal civilian casualties, whereas the Palestinians target civilians. They hide in civilian clothing, send rockets from daycare centres, crowded markets, etc. It is disturbing. Do these people deserve to kick the proud, good people of Israel out of their homeland? You also have to consider: Even if you do not agree with why/how Israel was originally created, they have been there well over 50 years now. It is their home now.

And if the Palestinians are such refugees in the Gaza strip, and every arab country is so concerned with them, why don't the surrounding Arab countries take them in and take care of them? What are their ties to Israel? HATE. That is it, spelled out.

As I said before; There will only be peace when and only when Palestinian mothers love their children more than they hate Jews.

[Nymous]

Originally Posted by Phin

I understand that-- I obviously do not approve of Israelis killing civilians either, though it is MUCH more of an anomaly than Palestinians killing Israeli civilians. That is one of the main differences in the cultures. Israel goes though extremes to ensure minimal civilian casualties, whereas the Palestinians target civilians. They hide in civilian clothing, send rockets from daycare centres, crowded markets, etc. It is disturbing. Do these people deserve to kick the proud, good people of Israel out of their homeland? You also have to consider: Even if you do not agree with why/how Israel was originally created, they have been there well over 50 years now. It is their home now.

And if the Palestinians are such refugees in the Gaza strip, and every arab country is so concerned with them, why don't the surrounding Arab countries take them in and take care of them? What are their ties to Israel? HATE. That is it, spelled out.

As I said before; There will only be peace when and only when Palestinian mothers love their children more than they hate Jews.

I have nothing to say on that. Everything I would say, I already said in previous posts. I think that I understand your point of view and I know why you think like that. I also think that you understand now my point of view.
I completely agree that the governments of Arab countries are hating Israel. I don't like the government of Israel, but I don't like the government of any Arab country like I don't like Hezbollah. That's why I never scream 'Hamas, Jihad, Hezbollah!' but only 'Hamas, Jihad!'
But it's not like that the Arab countries hate Israel because of solidarity, it's just because they want more power. Everything turns around power, over there.

In the last 50 years that Israel came in Palestina, there has never been peace. And last year, even at Christmas evening, there were bombs of Israel dropped in Gaza. So I still understand why Palestinian don't like the Israeli.

[Phin]

Originally Posted by Nymous

I have nothing to say on that. Everything I would say, I already said in previous posts. I think that I understand your point of view and I know why you think like that. I also think that you understand now my point of view.
I completely agree that the governments of Arab countries are hating Israel. I don't like the government of Israel, but I don't like the government of any Arab country like I don't like Hezbollah. That's why I never scream 'Hamas, Jihad, Hezbollah!' but only 'Hamas, Jihad!'
But it's not like that the Arab countries hate Israel because of solidarity, it's just because they want more power. Everything turns around power, over there.

In the last 50 years that Israel came in Palestina, there has never been peace. And last year, even at Christmas evening, there were bombs of Israel dropped in Gaza. So I still understand why Palestinian don't like the Israeli.

I understand why they would be tricked into hating Jews because Hamas propaganda system is intricate and powerful, but I still cannot agree with it. Watch the videos I posted... You'll benefit from it.

[Guile]

Originally Posted by Nymous

Do you? Well, I'm very happy with that, personally, but it has nothing to do with what you said before. You said that the American army is helping the people over there. But trust me, they are only fighting for Israel, for the Jews. They dislike the palestinians as much as do the jews.
Why do you think I'm manifestating for every year? For more cookies? No, to stop America's violence against Palestinians. Why do you think that I scream every year as loud as I can: 'Israel, casses-toi, la Palestine n'est pas a toi' (Israel, go away, Palestina is not yours)?

I support the war against terror, we need to stop blowing millions of dollars in aid on Israel, they stole the lands from Palestine!

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Nymous

Yes, I'm sorry for that, I will try to write more in correct English, but it's not always easy (knowing three languages isn't easy).
But anyhow, that was cynical. I don't want to start another war to obtain more jobs. Because firstly, it would be completely unethical, and secondly, there will be more jobs during the war, but after the war there's always an economical an social depression.
Again, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

That's a good thing. It's the process of resources moving from the wasteful areas they were during the war to productive peacetime production.

[TigerTank77]

Originally Posted by Guile

They stole the lands from Palestine!

You mean the land owned by the British given to the Israeli's in 1948, that the Arab community seems intent on vitrifying?

You're right, we should totally give it back to people who never owned it in the first place. Awesome idea.

[Nymous]

Originally Posted by TigerTank77

You mean the land owned by the British given to the Israeli's in 1948, that the Arab community seems intent on vitrifying?

You're right, we should totally give it back to people who never owned it in the first place. Awesome idea.

Christ, CHECK YOUR HISTORY! Palestina was never owned by Great-Britain, it was a MANDAT-country of Britain. That means that Britain had the responsability of the development of Palestina, until Palestina was developed enough to be independent. Palestina was not like a British colony. So in theory, Britain did not even have the power to 'give Palestina away'. I don't understand that president Wilson let that happen.

[✖Ice✖]

Originally Posted by Nymous

Christ, CHECK YOUR HISTORY! Palestina was never owned by Great-Britain, it was a MANDAT-country of Britain. That means that Britain had the responsability of the development of Palestina, until Palestina was developed enough to be independent. Palestina was not like a British colony. So in theory, Britain did not even have the power to 'give Palestina away'. I don't understand that president Wilson let that happen.

Wilson wasn't president in ww2.

[Phin]

Originally Posted by Guile

I support the war against terror, we need to stop blowing millions of dollars in aid on Israel, they stole the lands from Palestine!

Read my past posts and you'll see why America aids Israel. You can pretend to ignore it, but the solid reasoning is there.

[Nymous]

Originally Posted by Ares

Wilson wasn't president in ww2.

But Wilson was president when the Mandat-countries were made. After WW1!