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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 06:50 AM

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Death Sentence, Yay or Nay? I'd bet my bottom dollar you can already guess my opinion.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 06:57 AM

Bet two you can guess mine.

(It's nay, to people who don't know me that well)


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 07:16 AM

yes, i can guess what you think about it.. if i remember correctly you want public executions as well, don't you?

it's a kinda difficult topic, because if someone killed someone in my family i would want them dead.. but putting that aside, i am against the death penalty.

when we covered this topic in ethics class when i was in school it saddened me to read stories of people who were [wrongly] executed for a crime they did not commit. i am aware that this isn't all that common, but one innocent life lost is too many in my opinion. there is no way of compensating these people when they have been killed.

also, it violates our basic human right - the right to life, not to mention it's inhumane. it's not a good deterrent for crime, life in prison is a more effective deterrent. with all the appeals from people on death row it will clog up the court system, also it actually costs less to keep someone alive in prison than to kill them.. after all the appeals and everything else involved.

basically.. killing someone to show that killing is wrong is ridiculous.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 11:03 AM

I vote "Nay" for several reasons:

1) There is no statistical evidence whatsoever that it deters people from committing serious crimes (for example, the USA still has a higher murder rate than EU countries, which abolished the death penalty decades ago), nor is there any evidence that countries which repealed the death penalty suffered an upsurge in criminal activity thereafter.

2) Keeping someone on Death Row is actually more expensive per prisoner than life imprisonment, owing to the number of appeals and other aspects of carrying out the sentence. So not only does it have very little practical effect, it's also less cost-effective.

3) One of the reasons the death penalty was abolished, in the UK at least, was the number of cases which were reviewed and revealed that the person who was executed had not actually committed the crime. While you can release someone from prison with a pardon, it's more difficult to bring a dead person back to life...

4) A state loses all moral authority to say that killing someone is an offence - which underpins the law of homicide - when it kills people itself. It is an untenable and hypocritical position.

I could list a few more reasons, but I think that does it for now.
   
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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 11:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr2005 View Post
I vote "Nay" for several reasons:

1) There is no statistical evidence whatsoever that it deters people from committing serious crimes (for example, the USA still has a higher murder rate than EU countries, which abolished the death penalty decades ago), nor is there any evidence that countries which repealed the death penalty suffered an upsurge in criminal activity thereafter.

2) Keeping someone on Death Row is actually more expensive per prisoner than life imprisonment, owing to the number of appeals and other aspects of carrying out the sentence. So not only does it have very little practical effect, it's also less cost-effective.

3) One of the reasons the death penalty was abolished, in the UK at least, was the number of cases which were reviewed and revealed that the person who was executed had not actually committed the crime. While you can release someone from prison with a pardon, it's more difficult to bring a dead person back to life...

4) A state loses all moral authority to say that killing someone is an offence - which underpins the law of homicide - when it kills people itself. It is an untenable and hypocritical position.

I could list a few more reasons, but I think that does it for now.

What he said.
   
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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 01:37 PM

No.
Because I honestly believe death isn't punishment for these people. Life in solitary would be better. And I do mean life, none of this 25 years stuff. People should rot slowly for killing someone in cold blood.
Also, like Dave said there are too many innocent people killed, and you can't reverse a death, you can reverse a prison sentence.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 01:49 PM

Nay.

Killing people for ANY reason is just morally wrong. Why do you punish someone for killing by killing them? That doesn't make sense. Death is a permanent solution, in this case the solution to a single act in one's life that is considered a crime.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 01:52 PM

I am against it. I believe all life is sacred, even that of a person who has killed another. While I might feel, sometimes, that killing some crazed murdering bastard would be the thing to do, in the end it's wrong. Life in solitary is the punishment I'd go with.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 03:48 PM

I really cannot say. A part of me thinks it is wrong to kill someone but another part of me thinks that if there is enough evidence and they committed a horrible act then they should be killed.

I guess I am pretty much undecided because one part of me feels like too many people get wrongly accused of a crime they did not partake in. I know if I heard of someone dying for a crime they did not commit I would feel horribly sad.

On the other hand I know that there have been people in the past who I felt deserved the death penalty. They admitted to committing the crime or there was pretty much undisputed evidence.


So, I am just completely undecided.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 06:28 PM

I say no for a few reasons:

1) Throughout history, we've strived to get ourselves away from such barbaric acts of public executions and putting people in prison or jail. Instead, we've gone for a more civil, humane approach of trying to rehabilitate people or allowing for executions to be witnessed only by the victim's family or perhaps very close friends to gain closure. Reverting back would screw up political connections we have with other countries.
2) Forensic psychology and other research involving criminals, especially those on death row are very limited because of death sentences. If we want to better law enforcement and public safety, we need to study not only those in prisons and jails but also the big dogs, the ones on death row. They're far less common to start with and killing them off may provide closure to the family but it works against science in this way. If we want to study pharmacological effects on such "hard" criminals, then we need those criminals to be there in the first place because that's where research is heavily headed towards: rehabilitation especially with pharmacological agents.
3) It's hypocritical: kill someone for killing at least 1 someone. In addition, it's implimented simply as a convenience because it's more convenient to have the person dead than to worry about what they'll do.
4) A better deterrent is life in prison because if someone is willing to go about and kill various people or at least 1st degree murder, then chances are they're not so afraid of death. It's not a deterrent but a better deterrent is to have them locked up as securely as possible, give them no chance of parole in any way regardless of behavior and isolation. That is a deterrent because even the "hard" criminals are social beings and isolation for a long time will drive them up the wall, which is a punishment and a deterrent to others.
   
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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 06:58 PM

I'm against basically for the same reasons listed above... I really don't like the idea of an eye for an eye, it very hypocritical. And for the fact that its hardly ever 100% that they know the person committed the crime.

On that note, as far as rehabilitation goes... the prison system needs a lot of work. I'd almost rather just be killed then have to spend life in prison. There is hardly any "rehabilitation" to it... its where hardened criminals/gang members go and do inside exactly what they do on the outside, and where other guys who just made an oopsie go and get %&#$@ #$%@$ by the actual criminals.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 07:04 PM

I say no, for the reasons stated above. You know, could be innocent, little deterrence, the costs, racism(?), etc...

But to broaden my opinion a little, most of the time Capital Punishment debates revolve around 3 things:

1. Whether the person deserves to die.
2. Whether the STATE has the RIGHT take his/her life.
3. Whether the victim(s) have the right to take his/her life.

Let's take a murder case as an example. A father murders a little girl.

1 ~ Now, does the father deserve to die? In my personal opinion, yes, he does deserve to die.

2 ~ HOWEVER, I don't believe the state should have the right to take away lives. I believe that holds too much power.

3 ~ But if I was the brother, or father of that little girl, I would see to it that I get my revenge. I would not hesitate to kill the bastard. I do believe I would have the right to take away his life, father or brother. But, laws forbid this for obvious reasons.

What I'm saying is: The law is supposed to be an unbiased system. The goal is to punish the individual and deal with them the way they see fit. The government shouldn't execute people for the sake of the victims either. They are supposed to be the third party. Killing them just goes too far.
   
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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 07:17 PM

I'm against it.
Killing doesn’t solve anything, and even if I did want the person who killed a member of m family dead I do believe that everyone deserves a second chance, by killing them you do not give them a chance to change.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 07:32 PM

O.o wow, everyone seems to be against it?
I'm all for it to be honest, someone should be punished with a punishment that relates to the crime they commit in my opinion. And a piece of rope is much cheaper than keeping someone in jail (though I know in America they spend years on death row, they should just change it)
To be honest, the justice system at the moment is just lame, it really doesn't do much at all, and with over populated prisons small offenses get ignored.
The only real problems with it are mostly ethical and moral issues, both of which change over time.
I'm also pretty sure that if done properly then death penalty would deter many people from committing a serious crime.
   
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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 07:35 PM

I swear it must be controversial month. Anyway, I vote nay.

Killing someone to punish them for killing someone else doesn't teach that killing is not okay. It teaches that 'it's okay if we kill you, but it's not okay if you kill them'. It's like do as we say, and not as we do, and that never works. Plus killing someone costs a lot more than it does to keep them alive. I don't want my tax dollars paying for murder.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 08:08 PM

NO. Always no.
If someone killed a member of my family or someone I loved I would want them to spend the rest of their life in prison. To that end, yes I do believe a life sentence should be just that - LIFE.
Killing the person solves nothing. It doesn't erase the fact that they killed/raped/etc, it just means they don't have to live with their guilt.
It's hypocritical. "Well you killed that person so we'll kill you." In my mind it's essentially revenge killing.
There are many stories of cases being reopened and finding out the person previously charged couldn't possibly have been guilty. But the death penalty means that another innocent life was stubbed out without reason.
Bah I could go on about this, but others have pretty much said it all.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 08:33 PM

Nay. It's so hypocritical.
   
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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 09:20 PM

no because you can't bring a person back to life AND people not only stay on death row for YEARS, but they live better than the lifers do while there.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 10:23 PM

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no because you can't bring a person back to life
Sorry, but what? =S
   
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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 10:37 PM

Strongly, strongly support it.
Reasons be ethical, and I'm studying for a test to explain.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 10:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3.1415926535897 View Post

Sorry, but what? =S
If I kill someone and find out later he/she did not commit the crime I can not bring he/she back to life or ease the family's pain. If someone is locked up for life but we discover he/she didn't committ the crime all we do is help them get the skills they need and release them.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 10:50 PM

depends on the crime.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 10:57 PM

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Originally Posted by Ares View Post
depends on the crime.
What does that mean?


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 11:06 PM

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Originally Posted by hecanandWILLchangeyou View Post

If I kill someone and find out later he/she did not commit the crime I can not bring he/she back to life or ease the family's pain. If someone is locked up for life but we discover he/she didn't committ the crime all we do is help them get the skills they need and release them.
Ah yes, but forensics get better all the time and it's getting rarer and rarer that the wrong person gets arrested and charged, and then it's yet even rarer that they then find out that they didn't actually commit the crime.
   
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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 11:10 PM

yes, but there is ALWAYS that chance. As I said too the inmates on death row live better than those in prison for life with no prole.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 11:11 PM

Yes.

Any for everyone saying an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, heres my opinion.

If the world is so bad that everyone goes blind, then we all deserve it in the first place.

But obviously the prison system needs to be redone. I.E, if you get the death sentence, you don't get to appeal every two weeks(hyperbole) and sit on death row for a year. You have one month, and then you die. Don't like it? Too bad, don't kill people.

Plus, with today's science, the odds's of convicting an innocent person drops more and more every day, and it's already extremely low.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 25th 2010, 11:12 PM

Definitely NO. Killing is always wrong. And killing someone for committing murder is just setting a bad example. Luckily, we don't have this in Canada.
   
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Re: Capital Punishment - February 26th 2010, 01:42 AM

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yes, i can guess what you think about it.. if i remember correctly you want public executions as well, don't you?

it's a kinda difficult topic, because if someone killed someone in my family i would want them dead.. but putting that aside, i am against the death penalty.

when we covered this topic in ethics class when i was in school it saddened me to read stories of people who were [wrongly] executed for a crime they did not commit. i am aware that this isn't all that common, but one innocent life lost is too many in my opinion. there is no way of compensating these people when they have been killed.

also, it violates our basic human right - the right to life, not to mention it's inhumane. it's not a good deterrent for crime, life in prison is a more effective deterrent. with all the appeals from people on death row it will clog up the court system, also it actually costs less to keep someone alive in prison than to kill them.. after all the appeals and everything else involved.

basically.. killing someone to show that killing is wrong is ridiculous.
Untrue, it costs $8 for a box of 50 9mm rounds at Big5, if we didn't have to wait 15 years to put someone to death we could make this even cheaper then the McDonalds value menu, excuse the humor, I just had some McDonalds.

Executions are done behind closed doors (and closed chambers if your in Arizona or Texas, love you guys!). If we publicly cut someone's head off (although personally that is too humane, I would prefer impalement, more shocking) and people can see the result of crime, they will be deterred.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 26th 2010, 01:55 AM

Determent wouldn't be effective... Look how well that's worked out for horrid regimes in the past...


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 26th 2010, 01:58 AM

Yay.

It's a safety issue. If you go on a murder spree than you have lost your rights.

I am also for America using hanging, it’s cheaper and it keeps the organs viable for donation. Maybe they can save a few people’s lives. And no, it’s not as effective. So I would say it would be the prisoner’s choice.




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Re: Capital Punishment - February 26th 2010, 02:00 AM

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Originally Posted by hecanandWILLchangeyou View Post
What does that mean?
All depends on what they commited like murder is reasonable for Death but stealing a candy bar isn't.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 26th 2010, 02:06 AM

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Originally Posted by Guile View Post
Untrue, it costs $8 for a box of 50 9mm rounds at Big5, if we didn't have to wait 15 years to put someone to death we could make this even cheaper then the McDonalds value menu, excuse the humor, I just had some McDonalds.

Executions are done behind closed doors (and closed chambers if your in Arizona or Texas, love you guys!). If we publicly cut someone's head off (although personally that is too humane, I would prefer impalement, more shocking) and people can see the result of crime, they will be deterred.
In the USA it does cost more to kill them, it is much cheaper to imprison them for life. Also, death row prisoners usually stay in prison for a long time before they are killed, sometimes as much as 20+ years. This just adds to the expenses lawyers fees, food, healthcare, jury trial etc.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 26th 2010, 02:19 AM

Definitely not, no human is in a position to decide whether another deserves life or death.
   
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Re: Capital Punishment - February 26th 2010, 03:03 AM

im ok with it being used against some crimes murder,rape, shit that is really messed up, id also say keep the chair for civillians, a bullet to the head for soldiers(gives them honor in death)


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 26th 2010, 03:46 AM

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Originally Posted by mexico View Post


In the USA it does cost more to kill them, it is much cheaper to imprison them for life. Also, death row prisoners usually stay in prison for a long time before they are killed, sometimes as much as 20+ years. This just adds to the expenses lawyers fees, food, healthcare, jury trial etc.
Exactly why we should limit the number of appeals more severely, and make our jails less "comfy", gruel three times a day, hard labor from 9-5, etc.


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 26th 2010, 04:31 AM

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Exactly why we should limit the number of appeals more severely, and make our jails less "comfy", gruel three times a day, hard labor from 9-5, etc.
Yeah, those damn legal proceedings. You know, I agree. Justice and truth aren't that important anyways. We need less freedom in America. Never liked mine, personally.

Boy am I glad you're our legal advisor here .


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 26th 2010, 10:26 PM

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Determent wouldn't be effective... Look how well that's worked out for horrid regimes in the past...
Because in the past the people in power have been squeaky clean right? In the past there have been numerous higher ups that have recklessly murdered innocent people because they haven't investigated anything properly, or even if they just want to make an example. And on the other side of the scale where things like the bloody code, which had over 200 crimes punishable by death at one point (I think it was around there) and the reason that didn't work is because they didn't punish the criminals because they felt like they were being too hard on them or something. If they stuck to the rules they set out then I'm pretty sure it would of deterred criminals. And also to say that it didn't work in the past is the same as saying humanity hasn't advanced in this area at all for centuries.

And about this silly death row, yes it may cost more to keep someone there, but things can change, so what really should happen is that they should just get rid of it, or make it a much much shorted time.

And whereas I don't believe public execution I do think that you can go too far as to what you can do, the only reasonable ways I can think of are things like hanging, which don't involve large wounds or a lot of blood.
   
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Re: Capital Punishment - February 26th 2010, 10:42 PM

Strongly against it. I'm of firm belief that if we put 1000 murders to death, and just one was innocent, we have killed an innocent man, something that in my eyes, can NEVER be excused.




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Re: Capital Punishment - February 27th 2010, 08:06 PM

im ok with a death penalty for civilians in horrific crimes, murders with multiple witnessess and the like but not for run of the mill crimes


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Re: Capital Punishment - February 27th 2010, 08:20 PM

Yes. If there is no doubt then yes they should be put to death. Any doubt though, then no.

People live decent lives in jail... I personally don't see why they should.
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