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Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 3rd 2010, 11:56 PM

http://www.masslive.com/news/index.s..._high_sch.html


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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 4th 2010, 01:16 AM

That is soooo wrong! I really dislike this country more and more. She did nothing wrong but follow her heart. She didn't hurt anyone or say anything wrong. What is wrong with this world? Why can't we all just live together? grr. /end rant.


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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 4th 2010, 01:26 AM

i hope she files a great big lawsuite and wins
   
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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 4th 2010, 01:34 AM

She isn't going to file a lawsuit out of respect for the students and administration. She's considering suing the individual who notified the diocese, though.


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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 4th 2010, 02:36 AM

Whether it should be legal is a matter of debate, but hopefully whether it should be seen as acceptable is not. Once again Catholicism demonstrates that it cares more for its teachings than those it teaches. An embarrassment to education everywhere.


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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 4th 2010, 02:58 AM

I've begun not caring anymore about this because it's something that is no longer a big surprise. Christianity cares about hammering out what it says ignoring whomever it hammers and ignoring teaching something. I care about the people who suffer from this because it's done for bullshit reasons.


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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 4th 2010, 03:11 AM

She needed to get married for them to work out she was gay? Seems a bit odd... butch althetics teacher...
   
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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 4th 2010, 03:12 AM

Morally acceptable? Hardly. Entirely unacceptable, in context? Not necessarily.

While it is sad and I wish things like this didn't happen, and while I hope the church will soon change (go on, get your laughs in ), you have to keep in mind that if one chooses to work for a Catholic institution, it is not outrageous that they be expected to uphold Catholic morals and to live their lives as Catholics. At this time, in the eyes of the church, gay marriage does not fit within that scope. Had she and her partner been expelled from mass and told they were unwelcome in the church, I would be outraged, but I find this far less upsetting. I don't wish anyone job loss, mind, but as a religious institution they have a right to uphold God's word, even if seemingly unreasonable and intolerant. I wish they had been able to rise above, but I am not surprised they weren't.

Chances are I'll find this much more WTF at some point, but I tend to do that. It's just important to try and "get it" from the POV of the source before shouting through the streets how terrible religion/Catholicism/"they" can be.


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Originally Posted by Invert View Post
She needed to get married for them to work out she was gay? Seems a bit odd... butch althetics teacher...
I suspect they took issue with the marriage, not her sexuality. I *believe* current teachings in the Catholic church are that it is okay to be gay but not to BE gay.. as in, don't act on it. (Quite behind on these issues, though, so I could be wrong.)



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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 4th 2010, 04:44 AM

This doesn't surprise me. At all. It would be different if she worked at a public school and they forced her to resign for being gay, but since it was a private institution, they have the right to fire for any reason, and gay marriage is not legal in the Catholic church. She should have expected it. Now, I do not agree with this at all, but this is the Catholic church. They don't agree with gay marriage, as is their right.


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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 4th 2010, 06:34 AM

If you're gay, and you work at a catholic school, and then get married...you're asking for trouble.

Not saying it's right, because I'm pro gay marriage. But still, she should have expected this.
   
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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 4th 2010, 01:40 PM

She had expected this and knew the risks ever since she took the job. Another article later published stated so that I'm too lazy to find.

This is at my school guys, btw. Every single student is outraged. We wore "HUMAN" stickers yesterday and on Sunday we plan on protesting outside the cathedral downtown.


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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 4th 2010, 01:45 PM

I'm sorry, but I think it's absolutely ridiculous to say that she should have expected this. Because that's basically saying that this is her fault and that the people who fired her did the right thing. As stated in the article, plenty of other staff members are not upholding "traditional" Catholic values, but they still have their jobs. How many students at the school don't hold traditional Catholic values, but are not expelled? Also, she didn't publicly announce her marriage, I believe most of the school did not even know. So why should she expect to lose her job?

Her marriage did not, in any way, impact on her ability to teach, to care for students, or to teach them Catholic values. It didn't interfere with her job, so there were no grounds for firing her. And I think it's a huge misuse of power to make someone choose between their faith, their career, their students or their partner. What is she supposed to do? Be a Catholic teacher or be gay? Can any of us imagine being in that position? And then having people tell us that we "should have expected it"?

I think it's an awful thing to teach students that they should expect to lose their jobs for things like this, regardless of how good they are at their jobs. Female teachers used to be fired when they got married. That was in the 1800s. And I think it's awful that we've gone back to that and that it should be "expected".

While we keep expecting things like this and accepting them, they'll keep happening and nothing will change. I don't really care if they're the Catholic Church or not. That doesn't make it okay for them to fire someone for something that has nothing to do with their job.



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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 4th 2010, 02:10 PM

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Originally Posted by WOW!USaidSomethingSmart! View Post
I've begun not caring anymore about this because it's something that is no longer a big surprise. Christianity cares about hammering out what it says ignoring whomever it hammers and ignoring teaching something. I care about the people who suffer from this because it's done for bullshit reasons.
I agree. It's not a surprise that this happened, and I'm sure she was expecting it; it's a risk she took when she got married.

Is it right? I don't think so.



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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 4th 2010, 09:49 PM

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Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie View Post
I'm sorry, but I think it's absolutely ridiculous to say that she should have expected this. Because that's basically saying that this is her fault and that the people who fired her did the right thing. As stated in the article, plenty of other staff members are not upholding "traditional" Catholic values, but they still have their jobs. How many students at the school don't hold traditional Catholic values, but are not expelled? Also, she didn't publicly announce her marriage, I believe most of the school did not even know. So why should she expect to lose her job?

Her marriage did not, in any way, impact on her ability to teach, to care for students, or to teach them Catholic values. It didn't interfere with her job, so there were no grounds for firing her. And I think it's a huge misuse of power to make someone choose between their faith, their career, their students or their partner. What is she supposed to do? Be a Catholic teacher or be gay? Can any of us imagine being in that position? And then having people tell us that we "should have expected it"?

I think it's an awful thing to teach students that they should expect to lose their jobs for things like this, regardless of how good they are at their jobs. Female teachers used to be fired when they got married. That was in the 1800s. And I think it's awful that we've gone back to that and that it should be "expected".

While we keep expecting things like this and accepting them, they'll keep happening and nothing will change. I don't really care if they're the Catholic Church or not. That doesn't make it okay for them to fire someone for something that has nothing to do with their job.
I think you misunderstand. It's not acceptance or resignation, but understanding. I don't agree with it and I doubt others who say it is to be expected do, either, but the Church does not need our approval to uphold their values. It certainly doesn't make me warm and fuzzy inside, but you have to take the Catholic view into account. Being gay certainly does not impact her ability to teach or care for her students, and they arguably felt the same way upon hiring her, but you'd be hard pressed to make a solid argument in favor of her marriage not affecting her ability to pass on (what the Church feels are) acceptable values to students. "Actions speak louder than words," and this woman entered a same-sex marriage. That does not translate well into traditional Catholic values no matter how you look at it.

Maybe it is ridiculous to say she should have expected it, but it is equally ridiculous to expect a religious community to compromise their morals in order to accommodate everyone. Religion is not about changing your beliefs to make a people feel more included or better about themselves, it is about living one's life according to [a god's] law. According to the official teachings of the Catholic Church, gay marriage (a "gay lifestyle") is a sin, although being gay is not; this may explain why they felt comfortable employing an unmarried lesbian but not a married lesbian. It wasn't a power play and it wasn't about making her choose between faith, career, students and partner, it was about ensuring the students receive a proper Catholic education. No matter how you or I feel about it, this teacher's lifestyle has everything to do with her job since she is meant to be a living example of Catholicism. Even if I hate it and disagree with it (which I do), that doesn't change the position of the Church.*

It is vital to remember the distinction between a religious institution and a public school. This would be a disgrace to America, to the world, had she been fired from a public school for being married to her partner, but this happened at a Catholic school. No, I cannot imagine being in her position, and as a lesbian (that was raised Catholic, by the way) I would not put myself in such a position. Should I, however, I would both know and accept the risks. Whether or not I believe God says being gay is a sin (FTR: I don't), the majority of the Catholic church does. Who am I to ask or expect them to change their beliefs to accommodate me? Again, that just isn't what religion is.

It isn't about blindly accepting bigotry or what I would normally class as blatant and disappointing discrimination. It is about understanding, regardless of personal feelings, that the values of the institution matter significantly.



*Expelling a student from the school for such reasons would be entirely different. Children attending Catholic school will be taught about living a Catholic life, while adults teaching in Catholic schools are expected to already be living examples of the morals they preach. Plus, if the issue was the marriage, such an argument doesn't even apply to the students.



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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 5th 2010, 12:32 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie View Post
I'm sorry, but I think it's absolutely ridiculous to say that she should have expected this. Because that's basically saying that this is her fault and that the people who fired her did the right thing. As stated in the article, plenty of other staff members are not upholding "traditional" Catholic values, but they still have their jobs. How many students at the school don't hold traditional Catholic values, but are not expelled? Also, she didn't publicly announce her marriage, I believe most of the school did not even know. So why should she expect to lose her job?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie View Post

Her marriage did not, in any way, impact on her ability to teach, to care for students, or to teach them Catholic values. It didn't interfere with her job, so there were no grounds for firing her. And I think it's a huge misuse of power to make someone choose between their faith, their career, their students or their partner. What is she supposed to do? Be a Catholic teacher or be gay? Can any of us imagine being in that position? And then having people tell us that we "should have expected it"?

I think it's an awful thing to teach students that they should expect to lose their jobs for things like this, regardless of how good they are at their jobs. Female teachers used to be fired when they got married. That was in the 1800s. And I think it's awful that we've gone back to that and that it should be "expected".

While we keep expecting things like this and accepting them, they'll keep happening and nothing will change. I don't really care if they're the Catholic Church or not. That doesn't make it okay for them to fire someone for something that has nothing to do with their job.
Except that she publicly married another woman. The school is not going to go through people's medicine to see if they use contraceptives, or make them take a "test" on their beliefs, but if one publicly goes against the teachings of the Church, then they too would have lost their jobs.


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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 5th 2010, 02:52 AM

I go to a Catholic school, and you will never see anyone whos gay spread it around. Ive met a couple bisexuals, but Ive never even seen a gay person at my school.
Catholics dont want a gay person in charge because it would make our teachings seem corrupt. I dont know if she'll miss her job, when my dad was principal at a Catholic school, our family was poor.


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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 5th 2010, 03:31 AM

I'm a practicing Catholic, but this really angers me. I have no words for it.


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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 5th 2010, 04:16 AM

I wonder, for every person's story who makes the news, how many other non-heterosexuals are being discriminated against by Catholic schools.
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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 5th 2010, 04:59 AM

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Originally Posted by MichWolverineFreak View Post
I go to a Catholic school, and you will never see anyone whos gay spread it around. Ive met a couple bisexuals, but Ive never even seen a gay person at my school.
I went to a catholic school (hated it) but we always had lesbians holding hands and what not and cuddling in the hallways. They never got in trouble or anything.


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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 5th 2010, 01:16 PM

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I suspect they took issue with the marriage, not her sexuality. I *believe* current teachings in the Catholic church are that it is okay to be gay but not to BE gay.. as in, don't act on it. (Quite behind on these issues, though, so I could be wrong.)
The official stance is against sexually active homosexuality, but for most conservative Baptists it is too....most of those who are going to do something like this generally seem to take it further. I mean the Pope has pretty much said gays are a bigger threat to the world than enviromental problems. And if they knew she got married, I struggle to believe they geniunely thought she was a celibate lesbian for 12 years. In Catholism all sexual behaviour out of a heterosexual marriage is a huge no-no. Maybe they were more willing to turn a blind eye to it, until the marriage. In that case they are actually I think more unfair.

Quote:
No matter how you or I feel about it, this teacher's lifestyle has everything to do with her job since she is meant to be a living example of Catholicism. Even if I hate it and disagree with it (which I do), that doesn't change the position of the Church.
It doesn't change the church teachings on the homosexuality issue, no. But at the end of the day, you don't have to ask for that in order to ask for change. A teacher, quite simply, is not a Religious leader, and in Catholism, they are still 'lay people'. And they are there to teach children the best that they can teach, and in a Catholic School, teach Catholic values where applicable. Therefore, as they aren't actually religious leaders, if they do the job, on what grounds can you really fire them? So long as within her job she keeps it to herself. The only marriages we knew about in school were ones between teachers within the school. Its not like she was running round school screaming 'gay rights! Ive got married!'. People have a right to their own private life. People like clergy give that up as its a life, not a full time job with set hours. What would you think if she were a cleaner in a Catholic School?

Quote:
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I wonder, for every person's story who makes the news, how many other non-heterosexuals are being discriminated against by Catholic schools.
*discriminated against by schools. I'mnot defending Catholic schools, but I think its important not to lose sight of the fact homophobic discriminaton is not limited to Catholism, Christianity or even religion.
   
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Re: Catholic High School Dean Loses Job After Same-Sex Marriage - September 6th 2010, 03:55 AM

It's discrimination. It's unfair. It's wrong. People should be able to marry whomever they chose and not have to suffer for it.


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