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Angry Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 23rd 2010, 08:47 AM

Lately in Europe some people in Europe have taken to destroying Memorials to German Soldiers in WW2. Left-Wing extremists tore down the memorial to the 1st SS Division Leibstandarte - Adolf Hitler (The most elite troops of the German Special Forces in WW2). Fortunately it has been rebuilt again. In another case a memorial was destroyed in Latvia to the soldiers of the SS-TV (SS-Totenkopfverbände) who died defending the town, it was put up by the residents, and it was destroyed so a Holocaust Memorial can be built down the road... they say it detracts from the "message" of the new memorial. Another one was destroyed to French SS Soldiers who were executed when they were captured by the French Army, and another to 3rd SS Panzer Division Totenkopf where 80 German soldirs were executed by the US Army near Linz. Can we really tolerate the destruction, desecration, and removal of memorials to the common soldier? No!


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The remains (The wreaths were laid by the local people in their honor after the main portion was removed by the authorities, the wreathes say things like "To Our Murdered Comrades," "If All the Brothers Remain Silent", "When All Become Unfaithful, We Remain Truly Faithful," "We Respectfully Honor the Memory of the Brave Heroes of the Waffen-SS," "Their Honor Was Loyalty.")


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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 26th 2010, 12:57 PM

Not a single person cares?


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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 26th 2010, 01:19 PM

I'm not exactly a fan of what the Nazis did to people........so no this doesn't really bother me at all.
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 26th 2010, 01:25 PM

I think that it's absolutely disgusting that these memorials are being destroyed. I think people sometimes forget that National Socialists were people with families and lives, too.
   
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 26th 2010, 01:48 PM

I suppose no one should care about the disrespect of some of the most disgusting scum to ever exist. I say this as an atheist with no Jewish heritage whatsoever, BTW.
While this is most certainly interesting, I do object to the fact that these executed genocidal maniacs are allowed a memorial. Even if they had families, they should be forgotten.


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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 26th 2010, 02:03 PM

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I think that it's absolutely disgusting that these memorials are being destroyed. I think people sometimes forget that National Socialists were people with families and lives, too.
I agree with this.

It isn't a memorial to Hitler it is a memorial to the soldiers. I believe a lot of them honestly thought what they were doing was right, Hitler was a powerful speaker and brainwashed everyone at the time into thinking that Jews, Gypsies, Gays etc were the ones in the wrong and deserved that treatment.

Also I think a lot of the soldiers where doing what they did out of fear, they feared Hitler and where doing what was necessary to survive. I don't agree with any of the Holocaust but I still think this is disrespectful to those soldiers and their families.

The only problem I can see is if the memorial to Nazi soldiers are in countries that were occupied by Germany, that just seems to lack tact and is disrespectful to the families of people that suffered and I can see why people would be angry at that.
   
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 26th 2010, 06:00 PM

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Not a single person cares?
I don't care about nazis..


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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 26th 2010, 06:13 PM

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I suppose no one should care about the disrespect of some of the most disgusting scum to ever exist. I say this as an atheist with no Jewish heritage whatsoever, BTW.
While this is most certainly interesting, I do object to the fact that these executed genocidal maniacs are allowed a memorial. Even if they had families, they should be forgotten.
hmm then we should distroy all christian memorials, because you know those christian people did go out and kill millions of people, or the same with every other religion/political/country ect...


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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 26th 2010, 06:15 PM

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hmm then we should distroy all christian memorials, because you know those christian people did go out and kill millions of people, or the same with every other religion/political/country ect...
I agree. You could generalise almost every group and say that 'they were all awful, they were all murderers'.
   
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 26th 2010, 06:16 PM

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Not a single person cares?
i honestly think its wrong to go around destroying memorials.

i mean if i went out and started destroying christian memorials id get punished severely because you do know that christian people in the past did do crazy genocidal stuff.


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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 26th 2010, 06:19 PM

Ya know... I really don't care what the Nazi soldiers did. I mean, I obviously care, but it's not like they could stand up to their commanding officers. German men were forced to join the military. Did they have a choice? Heck, many of them ended up killing members of their family. Even if they did think what they were doing was right, it was because they were being brainwashed. Hitler was a powerful, motivational speaker, and fooled the German people into electing him into the first place. It was HIS betrayal that led the world into such a horrible war. Should the soldiers be blamed for something they really couldn't stand up for? No.
I feel bad for them, and despite the fact that the war was undoubtedly wrong, everyone deserves a chance to rest in peace.
Is this an, "I'm better than you" statement, or what? Because, honestly, when we can't let go of the past, destroy the memorials of fallen soldiers (no matter who they are), that makes us no better people than they were.

Let's turn it around on us. We put up a memorial for fallen soldiers from the War on Terrorism. An Iraqi group comes and destroys those memorials because they hate what was done in their country. We would probably then consider it an act of terrorism and wouldn't tolerate it. Yet, we can tolerate something like this? What IS the difference?


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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 26th 2010, 06:25 PM

buckethead and Leikela have already said all that I was going to say...


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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 26th 2010, 07:08 PM

If it's in Germany, I wouldn't care whether the Nazi memorials were destroyed or not, just like I wouldn't expect Germany to care whether our American memorials were destroyed. It's not that I don't care, it's just that what happens in Germany is none of my concern.
   
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 26th 2010, 07:09 PM

i sorta find it wrong people are doing that to there monuments...doesnt matter what the soldiers did they still fought for there country...
   
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 26th 2010, 08:13 PM

I am not sure how I feel. A part of me thinks it is wrong but a part of me kind of sees why the people might be doing it. The Nazi's killed a lot of people and so, of course there is going to be a lot of hatred towards them. I don't necessarily think it is right but I think I can understand people's reasoning behind it 'why memorialize people who brutally tortured and killed millions of people?'


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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 26th 2010, 09:16 PM

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I don't care about nazis..
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 26th 2010, 11:14 PM

I think it's important to note that not every German in the WW2 was a Nazi. Just as not ever person in Great Britain is Conservative in a Conservative (mostly) government, not every German was Nazi.
   
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 27th 2010, 11:04 AM

You have to think that thwse were young men, told their nation needed them. I, like many of them would stand by my fatherland no matter what. If I was got a call in the morning that said, we need you to run a labour camp for prisoners, I would say, where do I pick up my uniform?

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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 27th 2010, 03:54 PM

Tough call. I don't like the idea of it, but not everyone who is a Nazi was a bad person. It was kind of a burden of where you were born and the Nazi party gave hope to a country that used to be very militaristic. After WWI, the countries made a huge mistake in doing what they did.
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 27th 2010, 06:11 PM

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You have to think that thwse were young men, told their nation needed them. I, like many of them would stand by my fatherland no matter what. If I was got a call in the morning that said, we need you to run a labour camp for prisoners, I would say, where do I pick up my uniform?

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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 27th 2010, 07:02 PM

I think that it's important for these things to remain in tact, soley for the purpose of history. Without them, we may forget how terrible indeed it was that they were commended for what they did. It's kind of like how the communists destroyed almost every church they could get their hands on -- so much history is lost now (NOT saying that churches deserve it).


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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 27th 2010, 07:37 PM

The whole point in memorials is to remember people. Why shouldn't the Nazi's be remembered just as the japanese, british and french are, along with many other nations?

People need to respect the fact that the world wars are over, and move on in my opinion. :/




   
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 28th 2010, 04:35 AM

Its sad to hear someone would disgrace a war memorial to either side of any war. But if it would lead to me being able to go a week without hearing about the Holocaust, it would actually make me very happy.
   
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 28th 2010, 04:55 AM

Well, really, all I can say is what my English teacher said about the Holocaust (We were reading the book Night. Great book): "Every person has a name, family, and story." Why shouldn't we remember some of these people? Not all Nazis were bad. The children were even forced into Hitler Youth, whether they liked it or not! It was either kill or be killed for some of these people.
   
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 28th 2010, 07:48 AM

It's going a bit far destroying all the monuments, even if they did bad things they still deserve to be remembered.
Besides, the Americans killed more Native Americans than Nazis killed other people x.x
   
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 28th 2010, 09:32 AM

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Another one was destroyed to French SS Soldiers who were executed when they were captured by the French Army,
That was never built. The grandson of one of the executed soldiers wanted to build it and it was stopped by the local people.
   
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 28th 2010, 08:54 PM

I feel like this is absolutely wrong. They were just soldiers. Not the people giving orders,the ones telling them to do these horrible things. The things that happened during the holocaust weren't the fault of the common soldier. Having memorials to the German soldiers who died would be the same as having them for fallen American troops. Everyone shouldn't be blamed for the evil of the high ranked officers. Even if a common Nazi soldier disagreed with the things that were happening, if they said how they felt or tried to get out they would have been killed. Not their fault. The memorials should not be destroyed.


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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 28th 2010, 09:40 PM

I'll say it again in case anyone missed it: Not every German soldier was Nazi. In fact, most were not.
   
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 28th 2010, 10:32 PM

Soldiers in the Whermacht were not allowed to be members of the Nazi Party. It was the SS who were Nazi soldiers, and not to mention, most soldiers in the SS were not German. It was not the Germans committing war crimes most of the time.


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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 28th 2010, 11:13 PM

For once, Guile, I think we agree on something!
   
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 28th 2010, 11:48 PM

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It was the SS who were Nazi soldiers, and not to mention, most soldiers in the SS were not German.
Sure, but all the destroyed memorials that you listed in the first post were SS memorials.
   
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 29th 2010, 01:48 AM

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Sure, but all the destroyed memorials that you listed in the first post were SS memorials.
Yes, but there were Germanic SS Divisions, 1st SS Liebstandert, 2nd SS Viking, 3rd SS Totenkopf, and 12th SS Hitler Youth


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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 29th 2010, 02:20 PM

I think, at the end of the day, that the purpose of a memorial is to keep in memory those who died for a cause that has a set of ideologies found to be worth remembering. Those soldiers who have meorials from WW2 are remembered because they died to stop the spread of Facism. German soldiers have their own graveyards with their own headstones, and I presume some monument to those whose bodies could not be found and those whose identities have been lost altogether (which happens when a side loses a war).

To put up a memorial to Nazi soldiers is an ethical issue on grounds of ideologies rather than to recognise them as human beings or to draw tangents of who or why people fought for Nazi Germany. There is a discussion in Richard Hillary's autobiography from the Battle of Britain as to why him and other men were fighting, and all of them had different reasons under the broad heading of stopping facism.

A memorial is to remember that life here is like it is because these people died for the ideologies we still believe in. To set one up for German soldiers, whether they were or were not Nazis, is ideology wrong.n To have a graveyard with their names, or a monument in memory of those who could not be buried is more in line with your reasoning, Guile.
   
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 30th 2010, 11:04 AM

No, I do feel the Nazi soldiers deserve a memorial, they stood by their fatherland, defended it, even when they knew it meant certain death. Such devotion and honor deserves one of the grandest memorials that can be constructed, yet, people have the guile to destroy even small tributes to the brave soldiers of the Waffen-SS?!

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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 30th 2010, 02:29 PM

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No, I do feel the Nazi soldiers deserve a memorial, they stood by their fatherland, defended it, even when they knew it meant certain death. Such devotion and honor deserves one of the grandest memorials that can be constructed, yet, people have the guile to destroy even small tributes to the brave soldiers of the Waffen-SS?!

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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 30th 2010, 02:52 PM

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your monument is devoted to Nazism then, so therefore I oppose it.
No, its devoted to the SOLDIERS.


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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - September 30th 2010, 10:30 PM

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No, its devoted to the SOLDIERS.
Well, considering that you've said "they stood by their fatherland, defended it, even when they knew it meant certain death. Such devotion and honor deserves one of the grandest memorials that can be constructed," it seems to me that the monument stands by that, rather than a list of names of men who died.

Why won't a gravestone do again? Oh yes, because you want something for the actions that they died for, which were nazism you want this honour they died for remembered to.
   
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - October 1st 2010, 02:23 AM


I mean that's my reaction. I just don't buy into the crap that the common soldiers had to follow orders, and basically couldn't think for themselves. I don't give a shit if someone tells me it's for my country or not, if someone told me I had to kill innocent people I wouldn't do it, whether it meant my life or not.

The Salem Witch Trials finally came to an end because too many people were refusing to confess to being a witch, even though it would save their lives. If enough common soldiers had stood up, even though it cost them their lives, that war might have ended sooner and a lot less people would have died. That is of course if they really believed what they were doing was wrong, that or they were just cowards, and I don't believe cowards deserve a memorial.


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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - October 1st 2010, 03:05 AM

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post

I mean that's my reaction. I just don't buy into the crap that the common soldiers had to follow orders, and basically couldn't think for themselves. I don't give a shit if someone tells me it's for my country or not, if someone told me I had to kill innocent people I wouldn't do it, whether it meant my life or not.

The Salem Witch Trials finally came to an end because too many people were refusing to confess to being a witch, even though it would save their lives. If enough common soldiers had stood up, even though it cost them their lives, that war might have ended sooner and a lot less people would have died. That is of course if they really believed what they were doing was wrong, that or they were just cowards, and I don't believe cowards deserve a memorial.
I agree with this. I would face death rather than support my country in times like such as this. I could not partake in a war simply because MY life would be spared, while countless others are killed. My life is not more important than ANY innocent person.

It doesn't matter where you're born. It is wrong to support your country without question.

I do agree that the soldiers should be memorialized, however. I think destroying the memorials is wrong. Many of those people were indoctrinated into following the nazi movement. Others were forced into it to protect their families and such. Even more were just scared, and that is understandable. Not everyone is brave.

As for the Hitler memorial .. good. I would do the same thing. It should be destroyed.
   
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Re: Destruction of Nazi Memorials - October 1st 2010, 05:09 AM

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Originally Posted by IAm42 View Post
I agree with this. I would face death rather than support my country in times like such as this. I could not partake in a war simply because MY life would be spared, while countless others are killed. My life is not more important than ANY innocent person.

It doesn't matter where you're born. It is wrong to support your country without question.

I do agree that the soldiers should be memorialized, however. I think destroying the memorials is wrong. Many of those people were indoctrinated into following the nazi movement. Others were forced into it to protect their families and such. Even more were just scared, and that is understandable. Not everyone is brave.

As for the Hitler memorial .. good. I would do the same thing. It should be destroyed.
There was no Hitler memorial it was a memorial to the members of different Heer and SS divisions.


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