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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
Marvin Offline
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UN to accept execution of gays - November 23rd 2010, 10:41 PM

Individual countries doing this bothers me, but the UN? Wtf.

Apparently, no its doesn't get better >.>

http://news.pinkpaper.com/NewsStory/...n-of-gays.aspx

Quote:
The United Nations has removed a plea for lesbians, gays and bisexuals not to be executed in a narrow vote.

For the last 10 years sexual orientation has been included in a list of discriminatory grounds for executions – gay rights activists say the vote to remove that listing is “dangerous and disturbing.”

The UN resolution urges countries to protect the right to life of all people, calling on them to investigate killings based on discriminatory grounds. Sexual orientation was previously listed as one of these forms of discrimination, alongside ethnicity, religious belief and linguistic minorities.

Others protected by the resolution were human rights defenders (like journalists, lawyers and demonstrators), street children and members of indigenous communities.

But now sexual orientation has been taken out of the list. The amendment was supported by Benin in Africa on behalf of the African Group in the UN General Assembly. It passed on a narrow vote of 79 for, 70 against , 17 abstentions and 26 absent.

Some of those voting to remove sexual orientation were countries where gays are known to be or thought to be executed or summarily killed including Iran, Nigeria, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Iraq.

The UK, US, Australia, New Zealand and many European countries voted in favour of gays.

Cary Alan Johnson, Executive Director of the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission, said: “This vote is a dangerous and disturbing development. It essentially removes the important recognition of the particular vulnerability faced by lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people – a recognition that is crucial at a time when 76 countries around the world criminalise homosexuality, five consider it a capital crime and countries like Uganda are considering adding the death penalty to their laws criminalising homosexuality.”

Last edited by Marvin; November 23rd 2010 at 10:47 PM.
   
  (#2 (permalink)) Old
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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 23rd 2010, 10:50 PM

I will never understand why homosexuality is considered a crime. It's love, for crying out loud. How can love be a crime?

On top of that I'm against execution; something as innocent as this makes it all the more disturbing. I just think the world is messed up sometimes.




   
  (#3 (permalink)) Old
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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 23rd 2010, 10:54 PM

it's disgusting. it angers me - but at the same time i guess we have to remember that some countries have very different cultures where gay is just about one of the worst things a person could be. not making excuses, people should still have a brain. all we can hope is that those countries who voted for it to be removed see changes in the near future.


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  (#4 (permalink)) Old
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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 23rd 2010, 11:01 PM

But there has to be a line drawn between cultural respect and unethical behaviour. It's all well and good to say respect other cultures, but human lives are in the balance here. (Also, on an interesting note, Uganda's recent proposal to bring the death penalty to gays was sparked off by American fundamentalist Evangelicals... so its not simply another culture, its Americans losing their fight in America, so taking it to vunerable countries to stir up hatred. Same has happened in some Eastern European countries). 'Cultural differences' should never be a justification for inhumanity (I don't just mean on gay issues, I mean at all)

And at the end of the day, the UN condeming such discrimination has never really prevented it. The main issue here there is that a go ahead has effectively been given for such behaviour, not even a disapproval. From an organisation looking for peace, human rights and humanitarian ventures, the decision is appauling, and it's appauling so many countries that don't even feel they should execute gays themselves (or they would), feel it's ok to give it approval.
   
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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 23rd 2010, 11:25 PM

UN resolutions on human rights have absolutely no impact anyway. The Iranian government was quite happy to hang gay teenagers from cranes even when sexual orientation was included in the list of discriminatory reasons for execution. Parts of the UN do good work, but the human rights element is a joke: the United Nations Human Rights Council currently includes Angola, China, and Saudi Arabia, among other persistent violators of human rights.



   
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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 23rd 2010, 11:36 PM

I know it didnt prevent homophobic behaviour, I mentionned that in my last post Its just more of the comment its making to the world.... it's effectively an open approval of such behaviour. Thats what makes it bad.

I decided to look for more info, but instead I came across this commentary, and I think it puts it quite nicely:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...nes-gay-rights
   
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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 23rd 2010, 11:58 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Invert View Post
I know it didnt prevent homophobic behaviour, I mentionned that in my last post
Curse my habit of skim-reading.



Quote:
Its just more of the comment its making to the world.... it's effectively an open approval of such behaviour. Thats what makes it bad.

I decided to look for more info, but instead I came across this commentary, and I think it puts it quite nicely:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...nes-gay-rights
It's explicit even in this article that the UNHRC won't affect the treatment of gays no matter what it decides. Other than that, it's telling us things that we already knew: that African and Islamic states really don't like homosexuals. The UNHRC's decision is saddening not because it will actually change anything, but because it reflects the repressive, hateful attitudes of a majority of the member states. In itself, it's meaningless.



   
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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 24th 2010, 03:05 AM

oohhh, that is too bad
   
  (#9 (permalink)) Old
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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 24th 2010, 03:55 AM

wow. people should be able to love whoever they want...society is so cruel.


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  (#10 (permalink)) Old
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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 24th 2010, 09:02 AM

Goddamn people who wish to enforce executions based on their religion. Religion, however, is not responsible for this problem, it's those of which take such a literal approach towards it.
Anywho, those countries of which voted against such a plea mentioned specifically in that quote sure as hell do not deserve to be in the UN, particularly Iran.


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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 24th 2010, 09:44 AM

Omg how deeply disturbing
Instead of moving forward it feels when stuff like this happens that we're taking a step backwards instead.


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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 24th 2010, 11:31 AM

I think they need to hold this vote again when absent leaders of legitimate nations are able to properly represent themselves. Considering Iran is considered a terrorist nation it is quite upsetting that they are giving this nut any legitimacy.
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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 24th 2010, 11:45 AM

Iran are stoning a woman to death currently. Their opinion is obviously going to be a representation of pure intolerance.
The UN should not support Iran, nor accept and/or embrace its radical and bigotry views.


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Last edited by ~Mr. Self Destruct~; November 24th 2010 at 11:53 AM.
   
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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 24th 2010, 08:59 PM

Hahahahaha... and after years of mocking the UN for being the biggest waste of money and time, it looks like they have for once done something! Haha, it's even funnier that the one time they get something done, everyone starts whining. Ahh these guys make me giggle almost as much as North Korea, ahh those loveable nuts.

Anyway though, I can't complain, not for or against this (it's only a theoretical ban in the first place anyway). Admittedly, I really don't care.


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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 24th 2010, 09:45 PM

At the risk of invoking Godwin's law, I can't help but wonder what Pastor Martin Niemöller would make of all this were he still around...


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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 24th 2010, 10:01 PM

The question is do you want the UN to be a Euro-centric and American-centric organisation or a representation of the wishes of a majority of countries?

The great difficulty is the ideological shift between the first world and the third world and its perhaps it shows the ambiguity of the UN. I don't disagree with the sentiments of anyone else here, but I do think the right step was made in the fact that Europe and America do not stamp their beliefs using the UN on the world.

Homosexuality is a crime in many world cultures, but not ours and the fact that the UN has recognised this is a success for the organisation and a move away from our ideology on favour of a majority.

I don't agree with the sentiments of it, but I agree with the UN in removing it because it is more representative of the members in it.
   
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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 25th 2010, 03:55 AM

Homosexuality is condemned culturally so that makes it OK?
I suppose we should approve of the Crusades then, and the Holocaust too.
The point is, these countires don't deserve representation. In the devloped world, the majority of the Governments of these nations would have political officials being arrested for crimes against humanity.
Human rights is the issue here.


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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 25th 2010, 05:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedalus View Post
The question is do you want the UN to be a Euro-centric and American-centric organisation or a representation of the wishes of a majority of countries?

The great difficulty is the ideological shift between the first world and the third world and its perhaps it shows the ambiguity of the UN. I don't disagree with the sentiments of anyone else here, but I do think the right step was made in the fact that Europe and America do not stamp their beliefs using the UN on the world.

Homosexuality is a crime in many world cultures, but not ours and the fact that the UN has recognised this is a success for the organisation and a move away from our ideology on favour of a majority.

I don't agree with the sentiments of it, but I agree with the UN in removing it because it is more representative of the members in it.
To put it as briefly as possible, I'm not sure one can call the views of 79 out of 192 member states "a representation of the wishes of a majority of countries". It doesn't even represent the wishes of the majority of those present once the 17 abstentions are factored in. Hence why I would move towards requiring an absolute majority of all present (i.e. 50% plus 1) for resolutions to pass, much as it is in most other legislative bodies in the world. Funny how the rules change when it gets to the world stage...


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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 26th 2010, 03:02 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedalus View Post
The question is do you want the UN to be a Euro-centric and American-centric organisation or a representation of the wishes of a majority of countries?

The great difficulty is the ideological shift between the first world and the third world and its perhaps it shows the ambiguity of the UN. I don't disagree with the sentiments of anyone else here, but I do think the right step was made in the fact that Europe and America do not stamp their beliefs using the UN on the world.

Homosexuality is a crime in many world cultures, but not ours and the fact that the UN has recognised this is a success for the organisation and a move away from our ideology on favour of a majority.

I don't agree with the sentiments of it, but I agree with the UN in removing it because it is more representative of the members in it.
I do see where you're coming from here, I really do. But unfortunatly I must disagree. Yes the UN supporting a variety of idealogical beliefs is important. However that is not the only or main purpose of the UN. The UN was created to maintain peace throughout the world. Another very important function of the UN is to support and defend human rights. And by taking gays off that list they're not doing that.

Personaly I can think of an anology for this based on my perspective. Say the world is a school. Some countries have more force in the school then others but the developing countries are most of the student population. And the UN is the administration. Some may argue that they are the largest force of reconning in the school. Others say that they have little to no influence at all. But the decisions they make still have a large impact. One day the majority of the students decide that everyone that has blonde hair needs to have their books taken and ripped up and the blondes should be tossed painfully into a dumpster on a daily basis. The administration learns about this, and seeing that the majority of the students are doing this they decide that they shouldn't have any punishments for this. So now every blonde has no textbooks and is tossed daily into a dumpster with no support or help from the administration. Does this seem fair to anyone?


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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 26th 2010, 04:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dedalus View Post
The question is do you want the UN to be a Euro-centric and American-centric organisation or a representation of the wishes of a majority of countries?

The great difficulty is the ideological shift between the first world and the third world and its perhaps it shows the ambiguity of the UN. I don't disagree with the sentiments of anyone else here, but I do think the right step was made in the fact that Europe and America do not stamp their beliefs using the UN on the world.

Homosexuality is a crime in many world cultures, but not ours and the fact that the UN has recognised this is a success for the organisation and a move away from our ideology on favour of a majority.

I don't agree with the sentiments of it, but I agree with the UN in removing it because it is more representative of the members in it.
The wish of the majority is not always the best thing FOR the people. Ever heard of "tyranny of the majority"?

If 5 out of 5 dentists recommend stoning black people to death for having braces, that does not mean we should respect their "experience and beliefs", it means we should tell them to fuck off.

Not imposing a western/christian viewpoint on the world = fine and dandy

Allowing countries to execute homosexuals for being homosexuals because we should respect their cultures and beliefs= Absolute Grade A Fucking Bullshit.

I don't care what your religion/culture says or how peaceful you try to tell me it is. If you believe homosexuals are criminals and thus are subhumans worthy of execution, YOU DO NOT DESERVE LIFE, LET ALONE THE RIGHT TO MAKE DECISIONS THAT EFFECT OTHER PEOPLE.


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Re: UN to accept execution of gays - November 30th 2010, 11:51 AM

This is horrible, I'm actually going to use this article for my QQC today in Law12 and see what I get. I think it's absolutly horrible!
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