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TigerTank77 Offline
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A historic vs. An Historic - August 31st 2011, 07:44 AM

So, I know you've all heard the switch.

"A historic event" is now "an historic event". Everyone in the media has made the switch, and it seems to be catching on.

Here's my problem.

THE "H" IS NOT FUCKING SILENT.

I can't stand it. I do not wear AN hat. I do not have An hand.It makes no fucking sense to me what so ever.

However, I'd like to hear other people's opinions on this.

(
First they take away "they" as the possessive gender neutral and now this shit. Sometimes I want to beat an English teacher.)


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  (#2 (permalink)) Old
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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - August 31st 2011, 08:04 AM

I think "A historic" is better. "An historic" sounds weird to me.


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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - August 31st 2011, 01:07 PM

I truthfully have not heard of either of these changes you're talking about.

So are we just throwing all grammar rules out the window now? That's sure what it seems like to me.
   
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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - August 31st 2011, 01:51 PM

This isn't the case in Australia.

But I've heard it. Who teaches grammar to these guys?


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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - August 31st 2011, 01:52 PM

It really depends on with what accent you say historic. Some people naturally leave the 'h' sound off and in that case using 'an' is correct.


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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - August 31st 2011, 04:18 PM

I remember one of my teachers had an argument with a pupil because they insisted it was 'a hotel', not 'an hotel'.

Strangely, I think 'an hotel' sounds ridiculous, but 'an historic' doesn't. Odd.

To be honest, I have no idea what is expected and will continue to listen to Spell Check until the matter becomes clear.


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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - August 31st 2011, 04:41 PM

I can't even work out how having "an" before a H makes sense in any circumstance, much less in this particular case. To my mind it looks wrong and sounds wrong, and I don't see why it is becoming more prevalent.


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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - August 31st 2011, 05:34 PM

A historic is correct. An historic is not.

There is nothing to debate.
   
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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - August 31st 2011, 06:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerTank77 View Post
So, I know you've all heard the switch.

"A historic event" is now "an historic event". Everyone in the media has made the switch, and it seems to be catching on.

Here's my problem.

THE "H" IS NOT FUCKING SILENT.

I can't stand it. I do not wear AN hat. I do not have An hand.It makes no fucking sense to me what so ever.

However, I'd like to hear other people's opinions on this.

(
First they take away "they" as the possessive gender neutral and now this shit. Sometimes I want to beat an English teacher.)
Wow, something I agree with you on. I do have to say it just sounds so wrong saying "an Historical event"...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maloo View Post
I truthfully have not heard of either of these changes you're talking about.

So are we just throwing all grammar rules out the window now? That's sure what it seems like to me.
It is American English (or any English for that matter) breaks it's own rules all the time. That why most people who don't grow up speaking it in a native tongue, almost never can completely speak it properly. Not saying any of us do.
   
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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - September 1st 2011, 12:39 AM

"Historic" emphasizes the stronger H sound. It's not like "honest" or "hour". Saying "An historic occasion" sounds about as grammatically reasonable as "An car wash" to me. Stupid English language corruptions. >.>


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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - September 1st 2011, 01:35 AM

It was a historic battle.

It was an historic battle.

The second one just sounds stupid. It's like me reckonin' dat teh grammErz r baddddz. I mean seriously folks, learn to spell.

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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - September 1st 2011, 01:56 AM

I haven't heard of people saying, "an historic event". When said verbally, it can sometimes be harder to tell whether it's "a" or "an". There have been many times when I did write "an hotel" after speaking in French for a while because in French, the "h" is sometimes considered a vowel such as l'hotel instead of le hotel (ignoring the accent circonflexe on the "o"). Other than those few mistakes, I write and say it as "a hotel". In our family, we often ignore these mistakes since many family members are bilingual, trilingual and quatrolingual, so my father and I often switch from French to English to Franglais to English, etc... .


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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - September 1st 2011, 09:32 AM

I don't really think it matters. I have said 'an historic event' but I have also said 'a historic period' Couldn't they both be correct?

There are exceptions though to that A if the word is a consonant (A Table), but an if its a vowel (An orange) with the word uniform. You dont say an uniform? you say 'a uniform'
   
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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - September 1st 2011, 10:45 AM

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Originally Posted by emma01 View Post
I don't really think it matters. I have said 'an historic event' but I have also said 'a historic period' Couldn't they both be correct?
Nope. Rules are rules, even when they're grammar rules. It's like saying that 'innit' is a contraction of 'isn't it'? and therefore valid for use in university level essays.
   
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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - September 1st 2011, 04:42 PM

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Originally Posted by emma01 View Post
I don't really think it matters. I have said 'an historic event' but I have also said 'a historic period' Couldn't they both be correct?
Perhaps in another language, not English.

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Originally Posted by emma01 View Post
There are exceptions though to that A if the word is a consonant (A Table), but an if its a vowel (An orange) with the word uniform. You dont say an uniform? you say 'a uniform'
You write it as "an uniform" and are meant to say it in the same manner but some people don't because it sounds fragmented. However, remember context matters because in slang you could say, "I gotta gets me an uniform" but you wouldn't dare be stupid enough to write that in a university paper that requires proper grammar and spelling.


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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - September 1st 2011, 04:55 PM

According to the rules "a historic" is the proper one because the H in historic is not silent.


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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - September 1st 2011, 06:47 PM

What?? Ew, that idea actually causes me mental pain. I haven't heard of these changes and I would generally associate the incorrect use of a silent H with Americans, as most people here would say 'A historic event' or 'A herbal beverage', but I think it's stupid. :/


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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - September 1st 2011, 09:22 PM

Quote:
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There are exceptions though to that A if the word is a consonant (A Table), but an if its a vowel (An orange) with the word uniform. You dont say an uniform? you say 'a uniform'
Words beginning with "u" are always a bit of a quirk - unlike the other vowels, it's not guaranteed that you'll use "an" instead of "a" with such words. To take your example, "an uniform" is incorrect because the sound of the first syllable is actually "yoo", hence "a uniform" would be the correct usage. Same with "unique". Contrast that with "urn", which sounds similar to "earn", and instead "an" is used as in "an urn", likewise with words such as underground (as in "an underground room"). Finally, to bring this back onto the original example, "hour" is prefaced with "an" despite starting with a consonant, again because the sound of the first syllable is like a vowel. It's one of the many quirks of a language which picked up grammatical rules and styles from God knows how many different sources and mashed them all together.


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If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - September 1st 2011, 09:24 PM

I actually prounce it 'Anistoric'
But I will always spell it 'A historic', 'An shouldn't be used unless there's a vowel at the start of the next word.
   
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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - September 2nd 2011, 07:15 AM

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Originally Posted by bitesize View Post
What?? Ew, that idea actually causes me mental pain. I haven't heard of these changes and I would generally associate the incorrect use of a silent H with Americans, as most people here would say 'A historic event' or 'A herbal beverage', but I think it's stupid. :/
In my regional dialect (midwestern American), "herbal" is pronounced without the H, making it phonetically sound like "erbal". Therefore, we say "An herbal beverage", but because we negate the first consonant sound, it's syntactically sound.


Quote:
Originally Posted by emma01 View Post
There are exceptions though to that A if the word is a consonant (A Table), but an if its a vowel (An orange) with the word uniform. You dont say an uniform? you say 'a uniform'
The use of "an" instead of "a" is dependent on the successive word beginning with a vowel sound, not necessarily a vowel all the time. "Uniform" and "ewe" are examples of words that begin with a consonant sound (in this case, a Y), so they're not included in the categorization of "an".


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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - September 2nd 2011, 07:31 AM

I'm no expert in English since I take shortcuts all the time.

But "An historic" just sounds wrong. No way am I changing to that.
   
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Re: A historic vs. An Historic - September 2nd 2011, 03:55 PM

OMG IT'S 'AN HISTORY' EVENT! *proceeds to throw dictionary at the nearest person in the room *

NO GODDAMMIT IT'S 'A HISTORY EVENT' !!! * throws brick at other person*

I think a history event sounds better... plus I'd rather not have a brick thrown at me when debates get really passionate
   
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