Occupy Wall Street

[Jocelyn.]

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-10-03/p..._s=PM:POLITICS

Thoughts? Opinions?

[TigerTank77]

I hope it ends so someone else who actually knows what they're fucking talking about can come and protest.

Their list of demands is utterly ridiculous in some places.

Demand three: Guaranteed living wage income regardless of employment.

Horrible, horrible idea. Now, no one would ever need to work. Awesome. Not.

Demand seven: One trillion dollars in ecological restoration planting forests, reestablishing wetlands and the natural flow of river systems and decommissioning of all of America's nuclear power plants.

Stupid stupid stupid. Complete disinformation when it comes to nuclear power. Just because it sounds scary, doesn't mean shit. We can't end our dependancy on fossil fuels completely and pass over Nuclear Power. Absolutely not.

Demand nine: Open borders migration. anyone can travel anywhere to work and live.

Makes absolutely no sense if their first god damn demand involves ending "freetrade."

[Jocelyn.]

Can you site where you found their list of demands, please? Just curious.

[TigerTank77]

http://occupywallst.org/forum/propos...all-st-moveme/

[Jocelyn.]

Originally Posted by TigerTank77

http://occupywallst.org/forum/propos...all-st-moveme/

That is a proposed list of demands someone posted on the sites public forum. Its just a random thread by a random person. Look on their site... there are hundreds of them. The group has no official list of demands yet. And I agree, those demands are ridiculous.

[TigerTank77]

Originally Posted by ball&chain

That is a proposed list of demands someone posted on the sites public forum. Its just a random thread by a random person. Look on their site... there are hundreds of them. The group has no official list of demands yet. And I agree, those demands are ridiculous.

Then that's another issue. They are completely disorganized and are making idiots of themselves.

They should have planned this out, been more unified, and shown up dressed like normal people to prove a point.

[Jocelyn.]

Originally Posted by TigerTank77

Then that's another issue. They are completely disorganized and are making idiots of themselves.

They should have planned this out, been more unified, and shown up dressed like normal people to prove a point.

I can agree with that.

I also think that something needs to change, and it's at least a start.

Or maybe I'm just looking forward to some excitement and a possible (and imo much needed) revolution in the near future lol.

I just know that I am in definite support of their main focus. I don't think big business has any business being involved in politics.

[-A-]

Personally, I think most of there antics are stupid and irresponsable. If you walk onto a bridge, block off traffic and cause a safety hazzard what do you think is going to happen? Rainbows and butterflies are going to fly everywhere? please... Plus, most of them don't even know what their talking about.

I saw one video of someone yelling "How dare you! How sick do you have to be to arrest a women!" cues one of the chicks there got arrested... smh

[Snufkin]

From what I'm reading online, there seems to be a lack of media coverage and an abundance of police brutality.

[Sythan]

People are finally fighting back against the wealthy, the government, and the banks. Tired of living in a failing society and country where the wealthy 1% can reap the benefits the other 99% work hard for. The government bailed out the people who caused this mess, made our economy go for the worst, and people are sick of it. I support them, and the protesters all across the US who are beginning occupations.

[-A-]

Originally Posted by Snufkin

From what I'm reading online, there seems to be a lack of media coverage and an abundance of police brutality.

In bold, not true.

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by -A-

In bold, not true.

Had you done even 5 minutes research you'd know that it is objectively true.


For instance


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...lice-brutality
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meT8CJgEBQw
http://daily.swarthmore.edu/2011/10/...wall-street-2/
http://www.dailygazette.com/weblogs/...reet-protests/


Let's not carry down this road, just accept that there were incidents of absolute brutality. There's youtube footage of a policeman walking up to a group of women who were trapped with a net and he pepper sprayed them in the face for no reason and then walked off as if nothing had happened.

[Sythan]

Originally Posted by -A-

In bold, not true.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgr3DiqWYCI

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/viole...treet-protests

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tBPIIsJhkE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moD2J...eature=related < On this one you see protesters getting pepper sprayed when they are already pinned in by a fence with multiple police officers already around them. Still call it not true?

As Matt said, don't go down this road. You know it's police brutality and illegal aggression. There is no reason for this brutality, and nothing you can say that will justify pepper spraying innocent people, in a fenced off small area like trapped animals, or dragging them on the street by their feet, only to be forcefully arrested by 10 cops jumping on them. Wake up.

[Pelios]

Originally Posted by -A-

In bold, not true.

And you must live under a rock?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuPE8Bb8mww

Slow motion?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTVXU...eature=related

They are not endangering anyone and are not destroying property, they DO NOT deserve to be PEPPER SPRAYED in the face. This is power corrupted the police are NOT doing their job. It is well known that the police in the USA tends to abuse their power.

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by Pelios

They are not endangering anyone and are not destroying property, they DO NOT deserve to be PEPPER SPRAYED in the face. This is power corrupted the police are NOT doing their job. It is well known that the police in the USA tends to abuse their power.

The US police actually have a bit of a reputation over here. Often people use them as an example of a corrupt police force.

[✖Ice✖]

Cops believe they can do whatever they want with the badge as seen time after time.

[-A-]

*I'm going to use the "macing video" that many of you posted as an example*

Now with that video many of you see it like this... The police spray the crowd for no reason, back off, but keep them behind the "gate". Correct?

Now lets step into the truth... Aprox 20 ft. from the end of the "gate" there is an arrest/fight taking place. The crowd begins to become even more unruly. Aprox 7-10 from the end of the gate is this side ally of sorts. From that side ally "peaceful protesters" (I laugh at that) now rush towards the fight/arrest and make physical (and most likely verbal threats) towards the officers. This now can easily turn into a riot. Now in order to control the crowed and deescalate things the police must find a way to show them that braking the law and to this degree will not be tollerated.

Now before I go on, let me point out something. The NYPD did not "trap" anyone behind the police line. If you look at the video you can clearly see that they can go on there marry way anytime since there is no "gate" behind them blocking them off. The barrier the NYPD was using was their attempt to keep protesters out of the street and on the side walks. The protesters being in the street cause a major safety issue but as you can see the protesters really didn't care about that.

Now back to what I was saying. They must now find a new way to control the crowd. They've used verbal commands. That didn't work. They've arrested some of them so show that they are infact breaking the law but are being nice and attempting to allow the crowed to calm down and peacefully protest (as allowed by the Constitution). Guess what, the crowed didn't care about that either. So in order to stop things from getting worse, the police maced the area of the crowd that was at or near the area of the fight/arrest.

Simple as that. Learn to regulate yourself, or the in order to keep the peace and causing a public safety issue, the police will be forced to.

And what I find funny is that many of you brag about coming to educational and intellectual positions on topics, and yet you make up your mind simply based of a 1 min youtube video.

[Sythan]

Originally Posted by -A-

*I'm going to use the "macing video" that many of you posted as an example*

Now with that video many of you see it like this... The police spray the crowd for no reason, back off, but keep them behind the "gate". Correct?

Now lets step into the truth... Aprox 20 ft. from the end of the "gate" there is an arrest/fight taking place.

I see no such thing. There is no visible struggle, no shouts or anything. There is no fight or arrest taking place.

Originally Posted by -A-

The crowd begins to become even more unruly. Aprox 7-10 from the end of the gate is this side ally of sorts. From that side ally "peaceful protesters" (I laugh at that) now rush towards the fight/arrest and make physical (and most likely verbal threats) towards the officers. This now can easily turn into a riot. Now in order to control the crowed and deescalate things the police must find a way to show them that braking the law and to this degree will not be tollerated.

The protesters never physically touch the officers, again because there is no fight or arrest taking place, and because they are fenced in.

Originally Posted by -A-

Now before I go on, let me point out something. The NYPD did not "trap" anyone behind the police line.

At 24 seconds into the video, after the protesters have been maced, you can clearly see a line of officers carrying another end of the line that has been made to trap the protesters inside. There is another video on YouTube of the police using the orange fence to cut out small sections of protesters for more easier arresting.

Originally Posted by -A-

Now back to what I was saying. They must now find a new way to control the crowd. They've used verbal commands. That didn't work. They've arrested some of them so show that they are infact breaking the law but are being nice and attempting to allow the crowed to calm down and peacefully protest (as allowed by the Constitution). Guess what, the crowed didn't care about that either. So in order to stop things from getting worse, the police maced the area of the crowd that was at or near the area of the fight/arrest.

If that is true, why didn't the police rush in and arrest the protesters after macing them? Instead you see the police officers that maced them calmly walk away after doing it. Once again, there is no fight nor arrest taking place that causes the police to use pepper spray.

Originally Posted by -A-

Simple as that. Learn to regulate yourself, or the in order to keep the peace and causing a public safety issue, the police will be forced to.

And what I find funny is that many of you brag about coming to educational and intellectual positions on topics, and yet you make up your mind simply based of a 1 min youtube video.

Did you see the first link I posted? It's news coverage by MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell about the police brutality. With what I believe is 9 minutes of multiple video on different agressions and brutalities committed by the police.

That's the truth. Not your fake, obediant lackey of the police version.

[Baxter]

It's called resisting arrest. Police aren't randomly picking people out of a crowd, they're arresting instigators and troublemakers. They're inciting.

Protesters down there have constantly been comparing themselves to protesters in Egypt and Libya. Kids had their best friends heads blown off and brains splattered all over them. Meanwhile there is a pepper spraying here, and acting like its Ken State.

[Sythan]

Originally Posted by Baxter

It's called resisting arrest. Police aren't randomly picking people out of a crowd, they're arresting instigators and troublemakers. They're inciting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_1bYVMwg8k At 33 seconds, you see a white shirted police officer grab a random person.

In none of the videos presented have the protesters ever been violent with the police or are resisting arrest. You see police charging at a protester, grab him off the street, then get a few more to assist in the arrest. It is random.

[Baxter]

Originally Posted by Sythan

At 33 seconds, you see a white shirted police officer grab a random person.

In none of the videos presented have the protesters ever been violent with the police or are resisting arrest. You see police charging at a protester, grab him off the street, then get a few more to assist in the arrest. It is random.

Watch it again, the protester says something, and the officer immediately turns around and grabs him.

They march from Wall Street to Union Square, it's an unauthorized protest. When you don't leave the street and disrupt one of the busiest cities in the world, that's what happens.

[Sythan]

Originally Posted by Baxter

Watch it again, the protester says something, and the officer immediately turns around and grabs him.

They march from Wall Street to Union Square, it's an unauthorized protest. When you don't leave the street and disrupt one of the busiest cities in the world, that's what happens.

Once again, the protesters have not been violent to the police at all. The protesters meet their violent tactics with nothing more than standing there and taking it.

[-A-]

Originally Posted by Sythan

I see no such thing. There is no visible struggle, no shouts or anything. There is no fight or arrest taking place.

Look at the beginning of the video again.

The protesters never physically touch the officers, again because there is no fight or arrest taking place, and because they are fenced in.

You don't have to touch someone to make a physical threat towards someone. Raise your hand in a fist or in an aggressive manner towards someone is more then enough.

At 24 seconds into the video, after the protesters have been maced, you can clearly see a line of officers carrying another end of the line that has been made to trap the protesters inside. There is another video on YouTube of the police using the orange fence to cut out small sections of protesters for more easier arresting.

I went back and looked at the video again. The same point of exit I was talking about existed before, during and after the 24 sec mark. Look up the side walk towards the traffic signal.

If that is true, why didn't the police rush in and arrest the protesters after macing them? Instead you see the police officers that maced them calmly walk away after doing it. Once again, there is no fight nor arrest taking place that causes the police to use pepper spray.

Way to manipulate what I said.

They are attempting to allow the crowd to regulate them selves. They wernt. The NYPD raised their level of force, that area of the crowed calmed down, so the the NYPD dropped there level of force there. And yeah, there was still an arrest/fight happening prior and after 24 sec's.

Did you see the first link I posted? It's news coverage by MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell about the police brutality. With what I believe is 9 minutes of multiple video on different agressions and brutalities committed by the police.

Yeah I did. If you want I can point out his irrational bias and lack of evidence and facts... But hey...

That's the truth. Not your fake, obediant lackey of the police version.

Not really. I just don't cause public mayhem, stop the flow of traffic, make treats of violence and try to pick a fight for no reason.

[-A-]

Originally Posted by Sythan

Once again, the protesters have not been violent to the police at all. The protesters meet their violent tactics with nothing more than standing there and taking it.

You truly have no idea how these protests have gone down. I'd love for you to try to be a police officer out there trying to keep the peace, keep your chain of command happy and keeping your cool head thinking that the protesters arnt doing anything wrong.

[Sythan]

Originally Posted by -A-

Look at the beginning of the video again.




You don't have to touch someone to make a physical threat towards someone. Raise your hand in a fist or in an aggressive manner towards someone is more then enough.

Which never happens in this video.

Originally Posted by -A-

I went back and looked at the video again. The same point of exit I was talking about existed before, during and after the 24 sec mark. Look up the side walk towards the traffic signal.

What is clearly seen is the NYPD pushing the protesters to connect the other end of the fence to entrap them. No fight or arrest is happening.

Originally Posted by -A-

Way to manipulate what I said.

They are attempting to allow the crowd to regulate them selves. They wernt. The NYPD raised their level of force, that area of the crowed calmed down, so the the NYPD dropped there level of force there. And yeah, there was still an arrest/fight happening prior and after 24 sec's.

There was no such thing. Two officers don't pepper spray a crowd, and then walk away calmly without arresting the perpetrators. They got pepper sprayed and the cops stood there watching.

[Sythan]

Originally Posted by -A-

You truly have no idea how these protests have gone down. I'd love for you to try to be a police officer out there trying to keep the peace, keep your chain of command happy and keeping your cool head thinking that the protesters arnt doing anything wrong.

Video doesn't lie. I have no intention of being apart of a corrupt and broken systems which favors money and corporate protection over citizens and the people. Something you have demonstrated your love for.

[Pelios]

Originally Posted by Baxter

Watch it again, the protester says something, and the officer immediately turns around and grabs him.

They march from Wall Street to Union Square, it's an unauthorized protest. When you don't leave the street and disrupt one of the busiest cities in the world, that's what happens.

Everyone is yelling last time I checked you couldn't get arrested for talking (freedom of speech) In 0.55 you can see the police did it again grabbing a random person. 2.16 again, and it goes on all throughout the video.

[Baxter]

Originally Posted by Sythan

Once again, the protesters have not been violent to the police at all. The protesters meet their violent tactics with nothing more than standing there and taking it.

Oh come on, there are people who literally have to be dragged out of the crowd, thrashing their arms and legs. If that's "standing there and taking it" I don't know what isn't.

30 years ago they would have had their nightsticks out and been cracking heads. Whenever the police start arresting someone, all the kids take out their cameras and start chanting "The world is watching, the world is watching". With how tough of a reputation the NYPD have, and being filmed every second, I'm surprised nothing extreme has happened. I applaud their restraint.

[Sythan]

Originally Posted by Baxter

Oh come on, there are people who literally have to be dragged out of the crowd, thrashing their arms and legs. If that's "standing there and taking it" I don't know what isn't.

30 years ago they would have had their nightsticks out and been cracking heads. Whenever the police start arresting someone, all the kids take out their cameras and start chanting "The world is watching, the world is watching". With how tough of a reputation the NYPD have, and being filmed every second, I'm surprised nothing extreme has happened. I applaud their restraint.

Lord help your misguided views. Calling pepper spraying protesters who are barricaded in is not extreme?

[Baxter]

Originally Posted by Pelios

Everyone is yelling last time I checked you couldn't get arrested for talking (freedom of speech) In 0.55 you can see the police did it again grabbing a random person. 2.16 again, and it goes on all throughout the video.

First, Freedom of Speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want. It's still illegal to yell "Fire" in a movie theater, last I checked. It's an unauthorized protest, they're blocking traffic, refusing to move, inciting, disturbing the peace. We can't shut the city down because some kids want to protest the rich.

[-A-]

Originally Posted by Sythan

Video doesn't lie. I have no intention of being apart of a corrupt and broken systems which favors money and corporate protection over citizens and the people. Something you have demonstrated your love for.

No but the fact you think you have all the facts form a 1 min video is absurd.

Originally Posted by Sythan

Lord help your misguided views. Calling pepper spraying protesters who are barricaded in is not extreme?

Not when there becoming violent and disobeying orders to move.

Which never happens in this video.

look again...

What is clearly seen is the NYPD pushing the protesters to connect the other end of the fence to entrap them. No fight or arrest is happening.

Yet again, no they could leave. They chose not to. And even if you police were "trapping them" maybe they should of thought about that before becoming unruly and causing public harm.

There was no such thing. Two officers don't pepper spray a crowd, and then walk away calmly without arresting the perpetrators. They got pepper sprayed and the cops stood there watching.

Sigh... Maybe one day you'll see.

[Pelios]

Originally Posted by Baxter

First, Freedom of Speech doesn't mean you can say whatever you want. It's still illegal to yell "Fire" in a movie theater, last I checked. It's an unauthorized protest, they're blocking traffic, refusing to move, inciting, disturbing the peace. We can't shut the city down because some kids want to protest the rich.

The police can't simply arrest someone because they said something that hurt their ego. They think they have control over everyone and they abuse their power.
The whole world is watching.

[-A-]

Originally Posted by Pelios

The police can't simply arrest someone because they said something that hurt their ego. They think they have control over everyone and they abuse their power.
The whole world is watching.

They arn't. Baxter has pointed out several reasons why. If you don't like the law, change it.

Btw you can get arrested for simply saying:

-Yelling Fire or another worth that can impose public fear when there is no real danger
-Cursing in public (Depends on each city, county, state, fed code on how many people need to be present at the time you said it)
-Saying something vulgar (Somtimes this will fit into the above, but some laws have clauses where if you say something like "nigger" it also breaks another law)
-Misuse of 911
etcc

[Baxter]

Originally Posted by Pelios

The police can't simply arrest someone because they said something that hurt their ego. They think they have control over everyone and they abuse their power.
The whole world is watching.

Nah, reason why I brought it up was because it clearly shows them who are the main instigators in the crowds, since they can't arrest everyone. As I said, they're inciting. They have no right to protest in this manner. And I don't think the police are abusing their power.

[Dream]

I don't see how this protest accomplishes anything.

[Xujhan]

In this thread: people see what they want to see and insist that they're right without having a damn idea what they're talking about.

Business as usual, in other words.

[Pelios]

Originally Posted by Baxter

Nah, reason why I brought it up was because it clearly shows them who are the main instigators in the crowds, since they can't arrest everyone. As I said, they're inciting. They have no right to protest in this manner. And I don't think the police are abusing their power.

In what way do they have the right to protest? You think this protest is violent? In Chile they are having violent riots happen at least twice to four times a week happen with students setting police vehicles and officers themselves on fire, signs torn down and businesses broken into. The England riots, those were violent protests what these people in New York are doing is peaceful. I do think the police are abusing their power.

[-A-]

Originally Posted by Pelios

In what way do they have the right to protest? You think this protest is violent? In Chile they are having violent riots happen at least twice to four times a week happen with students setting police vehicles and officers themselves on fire, signs torn down and businesses broken into. The England riots, those were violent protests what these people in New York are doing is peaceful. I do think the police are abusing their power.

Thats like saying road side bombs arn't horrible simply cues a nuke is worse.

[Cosmo]

The main reasons these protests have credibility is because they're so peaceful. Which is, to me, why it's so shocking that the police are so brutal in dealing with them. Some people in this thread just love to lick the boot of the rich.

And I'm sorry, but pepper spraying two 20-something women who are being trapped by a net because you believe they're 'inciting violence' is absolute bullshit. This is why I am starting to move to other places to debate things like this, because those other places have intelligent people with intelligent beliefs, not people who want to justify police brutality.

[Snufkin]

While I tend to enjoy different opinions, particularly those with a completely different view on life compared to mine, I do think a lot of what is being debated in this thread in regards to police brutality is just 100% ignorance.