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Kissing in school? - October 14th 2011, 02:55 AM

Hey guys.

Just wondering your opinion on this: do you think students should be able to kiss while in school (assuming of course they are in a relationship) provided that it goes no further then that and happens on their own time (e.g. passing periods, lunch, etc) and is not a distraction during class? I have two friends whom are both gfs with one-another, and they often hold hands and/or kiss during passing periods. One of said friends mentioned to me that a teacher once told them that it was not appropriate for school, and just today our science teacher told them "Not while in school, guys. You can't do that here" (roughly). Maybe I'm just weird and open and all, but it seems to me that as long as you're not fully making out in the hallways for everyone to see, or kissing constantly while IN class, it should be perfectly fine. I also question, as much as I hate to have to bring this up--whether there's some sort of prejudice going on here. I have seen straight couples kiss IN classrooms between periods with a teacher in the room, and no one has ever gotten after them so far as I know. And while we are a grade 6-12 school, it's not as if the younger kids have never seen it either...

Idk...it just seems like it shouldn't be a problem. Thoughts?


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Re: Kissing in school? - October 14th 2011, 03:11 AM

I think it's alright, given that it's on their own time. Definitely not during class, or any other instructional time.
AND, that they're not like standing in the middle of the walk way. It bothers me sooooooo much when everyone has stopped or when everyone is walking slow because some couple is in the way because they decided to make out.
   
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Re: Kissing in school? - October 14th 2011, 03:14 AM

Well, they do stand in the hallway but it's brief enough that I should think it wouldn't be a huge issue--and from what I have observed it's off to the side and not in the middle.


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Re: Kissing in school? - October 14th 2011, 03:15 AM

In high school, fine. Whatever. In middle school or younger (yikes), not so much.

I don't really care what other people do in front of me, as long as they are comfortable with me seeing it. That's just a personal opinion, however.
   
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Re: Kissing in school? - October 14th 2011, 03:21 AM

You ask whether teachers use prejudice by favouring heterosexual couples kissing, however, I see some prejudice on your part. In the first sentence you wrote, you stated kissing in schools is only appropriate if the kissers are in a relationship with one another. If they're not in a relationship with one another, you oppose it. I see nothing wrong with kissing regardless if the people are in a relationship or not. This goes to my second point that some teachers may favour heterosexual kissing, while others favour no kissing at all, it's on an individual basis rather than enforcing the school policies.

The intensity of the kissing certainly is a key factor, although it's not black-and-white. It's easy to see if a couple are making out and tearing their clothing off, obviously that is going beyond merely a short kiss. However, I think the duration, frequency and location of the kissing help to determine the intensity of the kissing, which makes it purely and unfortunately subjective.

The heterosexual nature of the kissing may be a large factor as well for the teachers. Since homosexuality in general has more controversial aspects than heterosexuality as seen in the media, teachers may be trying to protect the integrity of the school by reducing the overt homosexuality. There are also issues of how other students respond to seeing people kiss. If two girls kiss, the male students are more likely to favour it and vice-versa. The two girls may not want this attention but it comes with the package, so teachers may be acting according to how much they believe other students favour seeing the couple kiss. Teachers may be concerned with any attention-seeking nature by kissing in the classroom between periods and heterosexual kissing may generate less attention.

I personally don't favour kissing of any sort in busy narrow hallways because the couple become an ignorant roadblock, forcing people to walk around them. In our high-school, the locker hallway was fairly narrow, so if a couple decided to start kissing and wouldn't move, people try to cater to them, which is frustrating if they're in a hurry. For us, the locker hallway frequently became a rugby field because there were a whole lot of students trying to go in different directions, so you'd get lots of pushing and shoving. It can also be frustrating when they choose to start kissing and block someone else's locker, as this happened to me a few times.


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Re: Kissing in school? - October 14th 2011, 03:27 AM

I did not per se mean to say that I oppose it if they are not in a relationship, but I was merely trying to set the situation of what was going on here. What I mean to say is that I would not find it appropriate if the two people weren't interested in the first place and random kissing (e.g. harassment) were to take place. In regards to the acceptance of homosexuality, our school is unusually accepting--I came out last May with zero harassment, bullying, ignorance, or intolerance and we have a large LGBT population. Even so, I do wonder if a couple of these teachers are simply prejudiced and against homosexuality, hence not allowing same-sex couples to kiss. However, I know these teachers fairly well and would be surprised if they were against it...


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Re: Kissing in school? - October 14th 2011, 03:35 AM

I think it's fine as long as the couple isn't making it hard to get through the halls. I just don't want a bunch of sluts making out in the halls, that's just, ugh no.
Kissing during passing period, lunch, after school, etc is perfectly find to me, I don't see a problem with it.


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Re: Kissing in school? - October 14th 2011, 03:49 AM

Yep...my point of view exactly. Granted, we are all talking from a student point of view and not that of a teacher or administrator, but looking at this critically, I can see NO logical reason in a open and safe environment like this that it should not be allowed for two girls to have a quick kiss during passing periods!! It just makes no sense to me.


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Re: Kissing in school? - October 14th 2011, 05:38 AM

Kissing in school, or other forms of PDA such as hugging or holding hands, I have no problem with. I went to a public school where kids were doing much worse in the hallways, and nobody gave them crap for it.

However, I think your friends are being discriminated against for being a same sex couple. I would do a bit of research myself. Do you see these same teachers saying the same things of boy-girl relationships? If not, I would bring it up someone of a higher standing, like the deans or principals. This is just my opinion however, but same sex couples should be treated the same way as boy-girl couples.

Your friends have every right to kiss, and hold hands as long as they're doing it on the own time. I can see why some teachers would be concerned as they aren't particularly comfortable with it, but I would also look into the school's policies and procedures. You usually get a booklet type thing with all this information when you register during the summer. Take a look at it, and see if there is anything in there about PDA amongst students. If there is, there isn't anything you can do and should inform your friends before they get into serious trouble. But, if there isn't, I'd use that if/when you do research to see if any of these teachers say the same to other boy-girl couples.











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Re: Kissing in school? - October 14th 2011, 06:00 AM

I checked the student handbook, and to my incredible surprise--there it is. Public Displays of Affection are "grounds for disciplinary action". I'm sorry, but to be frank, this is utterly stupid and dumb. I see NO reason to discipline students for kissing or holding hands on their own time...in fact even hugging COULD be considered a public display of affection...being that it is a way of expressing affection and is public. This is absolutely ridiculous, and it's clearly not followed in a standard way amongst teachers and admin--as I have seen students holding hands or kissing many a time around teachers but I have never seen them disciplined or even given a care...until now. This is one of those rules that makes no sense, and is therefore one that I would likely never bother to obey. I get the feeling this is in there from way back when when the school was literally obsessed with rules and regulations and we had administrators that were much stricter and less helpful. Supposedly, our current "Executive Director" as he is called is against rules that have no reason, I would say this is one of them. I'm almost content to bring this up with him.


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Re: Kissing in school? - October 14th 2011, 12:29 PM

Nothing wrong by my stardards, as long as its modest and not disruptive.


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Re: Kissing in school? - October 14th 2011, 04:46 PM

I don't want to see people kissing around school. Though I don't like PDA in general.




   
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Re: Kissing in school? - October 14th 2011, 06:05 PM

As long as it doesn't interfere with me, I'm fine with it. It does cheer me up to be around other happy people though so maybe it's a good thing.
   
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Re: Kissing in school? - October 14th 2011, 10:55 PM

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I checked the student handbook, and to my incredible surprise--there it is. Public Displays of Affection are "grounds for disciplinary action". I'm sorry, but to be frank, this is utterly stupid and dumb. I see NO reason to discipline students for kissing or holding hands on their own time...in fact even hugging COULD be considered a public display of affection...being that it is a way of expressing affection and is public. This is absolutely ridiculous, and it's clearly not followed in a standard way amongst teachers and admin--as I have seen students holding hands or kissing many a time around teachers but I have never seen them disciplined or even given a care...until now. This is one of those rules that makes no sense, and is therefore one that I would likely never bother to obey. I get the feeling this is in there from way back when when the school was literally obsessed with rules and regulations and we had administrators that were much stricter and less helpful. Supposedly, our current "Executive Director" as he is called is against rules that have no reason, I would say this is one of them. I'm almost content to bring this up with him.
This may be in the handbook you mentioned, but does it define a) what constitutes "public displays of affection", and b) how it should be enforced? If it fails to do the former, then it allows enforcement of a wide variety of actions. Of course, this can be an area you could challenge, although most of what you've mentioned so far is hearsay. It is problematic when teachers enforce the rules for only certain people it is unfair, especially when teachers differ what they enforce.


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Re: Kissing in school? - October 15th 2011, 01:01 AM

I think it's fine for couples to hold hands, hug, or a little peck on the lips. That's just sweet. When it gets to the point that people are swallowing each other in the middle of the hall, it makes me really uncomfortable. I think it's fine for couples to kiss on their own time at school, but keep it short and sweet, and save the make-out sessions for another time.
   
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Re: Kissing in school? - October 15th 2011, 01:17 AM

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This may be in the handbook you mentioned, but does it define a) what constitutes "public displays of affection", and b) how it should be enforced? If it fails to do the former, then it allows enforcement of a wide variety of actions. Of course, this can be an area you could challenge, although most of what you've mentioned so far is hearsay. It is problematic when teachers enforce the rules for only certain people it is unfair, especially when teachers differ what they enforce.
"Public Displays of Affection" is listed in the handbook under the heading of "The following are grounds for disciplinary action". There are no definitions of what constitutes a Public Display of Affection whatsoever, and there are no guidelines listed of how this is to be enforced. Most teachers stand in the halls during passing periods (or many anyway) as they are supposed to, and I have seen my said two friends holding hands while walking many-a-time, but so far as I know no one has mentioned it. This is the second teacher to say anything to them after they have been in the relationship for six months...not only is it a stupid and unnecessary policy (and a vague one), but probably very few students KNOW about it because it's hardly ever enforced, and not consistently.


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Re: Kissing in school? - October 15th 2011, 03:35 PM

In high school it is okay with me as long as they aren't full-on making out or clogging traffic for long periods of time. Here are hallways are very narrow so sometimes them stopping to kiss and stuff really gets in the way unless they're to the side on the stair case or something. We only have three minutes to go between classes so a congested hallway's not fun. I also get really annoyed when it's in the morning (this doesn't really happen at lunch, just in the morning) and I'm waiting in the cafeteria for the bell to ring so we can go to our lockers and I see people sitting like ON TOP of each other just kissing repeatedly. I don't know why but it gets really annoying in the morning for me. I see how teachers can enforce this one, though. Some of our teachers don't really care and others think that school is a place to learn (which it is) and not to socialize. I just don't like it when they get on us for hugging and things like that.


   
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Re: Kissing in school? - October 15th 2011, 03:45 PM

I do not think anyone should be able to kiss in school whether a gay or straight couple. I personally just don't want to see it.


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Re: Kissing in school? - October 15th 2011, 03:57 PM

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I do not think anyone should be able to kiss in school whether a gay or straight couple. I personally just don't want to see it.
So don't look?
   
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Re: Kissing in school? - October 15th 2011, 04:14 PM

It's a little hard to not look when you're walking to your next class, you turn the corner, then BAM, couples kissing.

My thinking is, a short kiss is fine. Couples generally like a kiss goodbye after school or in between classes. But beyond that, there is a time and a place for everything. School is not the place to indulge in heave PDA, such as kissing and being all over eachother. I find it a bit gross, and disrespectful to people around. Holding hands, hugging, short kiss, arm around each other- fine. But making out, rubbing eachother up and down, etc- no one wants to see that. Take it to the bedroom.


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Re: Kissing in school? - October 15th 2011, 04:43 PM

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It's a little hard to not look when you're walking to your next class, you turn the corner, then BAM, couples kissing.
So look away? Not too difficult. I mean, who cares what a few people don't want to see? If we stopped everybody from doing things others didn't want to see, I wonder what'd happen! It's like the "That offends me, therefore make it illegal" argument. Schools are boring and clinical enough without stopping any form of affection. We're slowly draining life away from schools.
   
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Re: Kissing in school? - October 15th 2011, 05:31 PM

It doesn't bother me too much as long as it's all tongues and slobber. *cringe*. If it's just little bits of kissing in their own time, I don't see it as much of a problem, as long as they're in a relationship.


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Re: Kissing in school? - October 15th 2011, 05:59 PM

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I do not think anyone should be able to kiss in school whether a gay or straight couple. I personally just don't want to see it.
I cant help but laugh and say don't look. If you turn the corner and see some people kissing, then take another route to class or go through but don't look. I'll give you an example of why your logic is flawed as the day is long. Essentially, you're saying you don't want to see forms of PDA because you don't want to see it because you don't like it. Shit happens, it's nothing harmful and the school won't cater to your every whim.

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I find it a bit gross, and disrespectful to people around.
I understand why some people have said intense PDA (i.e. slobbering on each other, making out) is a bit gross. However, I'm curious as to why you state it is disrespectful, can you explain?


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Re: Kissing in school? - October 15th 2011, 07:43 PM

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So look away? Not too difficult. I mean, who cares what a few people don't want to see? If we stopped everybody from doing things others didn't want to see, I wonder what'd happen! It's like the "That offends me, therefore make it illegal" argument. Schools are boring and clinical enough without stopping any form of affection. We're slowly draining life away from schools.
There is a time and a place for everything. I'm fine with hugging, holding hands, or a short kiss, but honestly, there are some things no one wants to see. If you are swallowing each others tongues and rubbing each other all over the place, save it for somewhere PRIVATE. Also, I especially hate when there are couples making out right in your way (like in front of your locker or the class you have to go into). You really can't "just look away" then.
   
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Re: Kissing in school? - October 15th 2011, 09:16 PM

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Also, I especially hate when there are couples making out right in your way (like in front of your locker or the class you have to go into). You really can't "just look away" then.
That's bad luck and unfortunately true, I've had that experience many times. I treat it just the same as though 2 people were babbling away in front of my locker. I ask them to move and indicate I want to access my locker, reach out and if possible, grab at the lock to make it obvious they have to move now, not in 2 minutes but now. Rarely have people gotten angry at that. The only time people did get angry was due to the fact that we mutually hated each other but that's unrelated to the actual couple kissing.


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Re: Kissing in school? - October 15th 2011, 10:08 PM

Personally, I don't think middle-school or high-school are appropriate places to be kissing.

Firstly, where would teachers draw the line? Should they carry around a stop-watch and every kiss that is longer than 3 seconds receives a punishment? Should they stop the kisses of people who aren't in a relationship? If the students' hands are anywhere apart from by their side while they kiss, should they be punished?

Secondly, if teachers didn't stop students from kissing, I am fairly sure that they would get in trouble for that. A teacher has a duty of care to their students. If there is a parent who doesn't want their child kissing or dating a certain person, teachers could get in so much trouble for letting that child kiss. Parents often pull their children out of religious/sex ed. classes - should there be some kind of "do not kiss" list that parents can tell the school, their child should get in trouble for kissing? It's much easier to just have a blanket rule on kissing.

There's also an issue of age. In Australia, high-school contains students from 11-18 years old and I think 11 is too young for schools to encourage kissing. Would there be a different rule for older grades? That's not really fair; there should be one rule for PDA across the board.

I don't agree that touching at all shouldn't be allowed. I really don't see the problem with holding hands or hugging, especially since they are not necessarily romantic gestures. But with kissing, it's just too much of a slippery slope.

However, my opinions might come from my experience of high-school. Couples were always being told to "break it up" by teachers when I was in school for kissing or just being intimate. It was never really an acceptable behaviour, like it seems to be in other countries.



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Re: Kissing in school? - October 15th 2011, 11:33 PM

ShimmeringFairie: what some parent wants their kid to do or not to do is not up to the school to enforce, nor is it any of the school's business. If two people are in love, chances are they are gonna kiss. If their parents have a problem with it, fine--their parents can punish/discipline them if they want. The school isn't there to enforce rules that their students' parents may/may not want for their specific kid--the school is there to give their students an education.

Re. age: I was not aware of the school system in Australia. Here in the US, High School is roughly ages 14-18. Although my school does have ages 11-18 or so, most of the younger students are not romantically involved in that sense (I mean, they have "boyfriends" and "girlfriends" but I think they are RARELY in a serious relationship that involves a lot of intimacy), so I don't think it's an issue.

To what everyone else has said: I am not at all advocating for "heavy" PDAs where people are all over each other and "slobbering" so to speak, as that definitely IS going too far. However, I know that in this particular situation the two students in question give one-another very short, simple kisses on the cheek as they part ways and go to their respective classes--I've seen them, and I know them well enough to know that they have the common sense and courtesy to NOT make out in public places. The student handbook says that "Public Displays of Affection" are "Grounds for Disciplinary Action". The problem is that it is completely unclear WHAT a PDA is in school terms. Is it not allowed for me to hug my best friend? Is it not allowed for me to pat my 'buds' on the back? Is it not allowed for me to kiss someone on the cheek? Am I not allowed to hold hands with my bf/gf? What IS and IS NOT allowed? Personally, I think that students should be able to have short kisses that do NOT consist of them being all over each other and whatnot, as well as holding hands, hugging, patting on the back, etc. Students have friends and relationships--and as long as they (we I suppose I should say) are not disruptive in class with it, or making a HUGE public spectacle of themselves, I see absolutely no reason why it should not be allowed.

As I have already said, I would be quite content to ignore this rule if I had a bf/gf, as it is completely unclear, and I feel like i should be able to express love on my own time...it is human nature afterall.


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Re: Kissing in school? - October 15th 2011, 11:48 PM

It doesn't matter to me if your gay, straight, or whatever, I could care less if you kiss in the hallway. As long as your not having sex and ripping eachothers clothes off. :P


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Re: Kissing in school? - October 16th 2011, 02:11 AM

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Originally Posted by Loving Linux Penguin View Post
ShimmeringFairie: what some parent wants their kid to do or not to do is not up to the school to enforce, nor is it any of the school's business. If two people are in love, chances are they are gonna kiss. If their parents have a problem with it, fine--their parents can punish/discipline them if they want. The school isn't there to enforce rules that their students' parents may/may not want for their specific kid--the school is there to give their students an education.
Of course it is up to the school to enforce such things. That's why parents need to sign permission forms for excursions, participation in sport etc. That's why schools aren't allowed to show things that are above a certain rating. That's why parents have the option to pull their child out of religious classes, sex ed. etc.

The fact is that if there was a school that said kissing at school was perfectly acceptable behaviour, they would lose enrolments and therefore, lose funding. No school is going to do that. Teachers may turn a blind eye to holding hands etc., but a school would be unlikely to actually get rid of their rules against PDA. Surely you understand that a rule like this is necessary to ensure that parents are happy to send their kids to a certain school?

Besides if your argument is that school is there purely to give students an education, then why should they allow kissing? It's not contributing to their education and in fact, is probably distracting from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loving Linux Penguin View Post
Re. age: I was not aware of the school system in Australia. Here in the US, High School is roughly ages 14-18. Although my school does have ages 11-18 or so, most of the younger students are not romantically involved in that sense (I mean, they have "boyfriends" and "girlfriends" but I think they are RARELY in a serious relationship that involves a lot of intimacy), so I don't think it's an issue.
But some younger students could be involved in a relationship or could be experimenting outside of relationships. They could easily see the older students kissing and decide that they want to. Personally, I don't think it is appropriate to encourage kissing for 11 year olds, but that's exactly what would happen if the older students were allowed to.

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Originally Posted by Loving Linux Penguin View Post
As I have already said, I would be quite content to ignore this rule if I had a bf/gf, as it is completely unclear, and I feel like i should be able to express love on my own time...it is human nature afterall.
But it's not really "your own time". If you are in school, then that is school-time and the school has the right to enforce rules like this one. Plenty of things are human nature, but not all of them are appropriate in public or in school.

I do agree that schools should be more specific about what is and isn't classified as inappropriate PDA though.



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Re: Kissing in school? - October 16th 2011, 03:59 PM

The school I went to had different views on this.
A guy kissed his boyfriend in school. He got suspended and his homophobic father called to the school.
A girl had sex with her best friend's boyfriend in the toilets, the girl threw a textbook at her (now ex) boyfriend when she found out and he pressed charges for assault. The school did nothing but try to persuade him to let it go.

Personally I don't see an issue with it as long as, as you say, it stops there and doesn't wind up with full on sex in the middle of the corridor or something. But regardless of whether it's allowed or not, kids are always going to do it, so why stop them?


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Re: Kissing in school? - October 16th 2011, 05:46 PM

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Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie View Post


Of course it is up to the school to enforce such things. That's why parents need to sign permission forms for excursions, participation in sport etc. That's why schools aren't allowed to show things that are above a certain rating. That's why parents have the option to pull their child out of religious classes, sex ed. etc.

The fact is that if there was a school that said kissing at school was perfectly acceptable behaviour, they would lose enrolments and therefore, lose funding. No school is going to do that. Teachers may turn a blind eye to holding hands etc., but a school would be unlikely to actually get rid of their rules against PDA. Surely you understand that a rule like this is necessary to ensure that parents are happy to send their kids to a certain school?

Besides if your argument is that school is there purely to give students an education, then why should they allow kissing? It's not contributing to their education and in fact, is probably distracting from it.



Well yes, parents have the right to take their kids out of excursions, sports, and sex-ed, but I think worrying about whether the students' parents want their kid to kiss is a bit ridiculous. Just because some parents might have a problem with their kid kissing doesn't mean that NO ONE should be allowed to kiss. Some parents have a problem with their kids being in a sex-ed class, but the sex-ed classes are not CANCELED. If some students have a religious custom that prohibits them from eating for certain periods or during certain days, school does not cancel lunch for everyone. If parents can't have a little trust in their kids, something isn't right. And heck...why even stop your kid anyway? It's their life, their development, and their growth as a person, in some respects. There is no reason that a few parents that don't want to allow their kids to engage in romance should ruin it for everyone else who is more open. Period. Yes, schools are there to give people an education--but you also have to realize that these are teenagers we are talking about. They are GOING to experience romantic attraction, and not allowing them to express that is a bit ridiculous assuming it is on their own time. Another thing is I find it perfectly a perfectly valid argument that being involved in romance WILL help one learn. We all make mistakes, even in that area, and while it might not be math or science, we are learning morals and life lessons--are those not important? I think there is a lot to be said about learning by doing--it's much more real than sitting in a lecture for an hour.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie View Post



But some younger students could be involved in a relationship or could be experimenting outside of relationships. They could easily see the older students kissing and decide that they want to. Personally, I don't think it is appropriate to encourage kissing for 11 year olds, but that's exactly what would happen if the older students were allowed to.



Again, that's between them and their parents. I think very few 11-year olds are interested in kissing very much, but if they DO want to experiment, and the other person is alright with said experimentation, why stop them? Being human is about learning, and experimenting DOES help you learn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie View Post



But it's not really "your own time". If you are in school, then that is school-time and the school has the right to enforce rules like this one. Plenty of things are human nature, but not all of them are appropriate in public or in school.



Actually, it is my own time. During passing period, lunch, break, before school, and after school, I am not required to be in any particular place--it's up to me where I go and what I do. In the case of passing period, I am SUPPOSED to be going to my class, but I see it as my time non-the less.



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