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Western Slavery - November 20th 2011, 03:55 PM

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/comment/don...180632844.html

It makes me sick. I always lived by the belief that there's no free lunch for me, or anyone else, and no one is 'forcibly' going to make me work for them for free (this has nothing to do with voluntary charity work etc.). I've heard of people going on 18 months work experience, getting paid fuckall.

I won't do it. I'd rather gtfo of this country or join crime, seriously.

I've tried to get any ordinary shitty job, behind a counter, in a restaurant kitchen, as a cleaner, stacking shelves, anything part time to subsidise my university fees. Never got one, because most of them require you to have something along the lines of 12 or more months work experience. Where the hell are you supposed to get 12 months work experience if no one is offering to give it? Right... I get it, they want you to somehow work for free for them, and that way you get 12 months work experience. I can't fucking afford to go 12 months or more, slaving my ass of on full or part time shifts for no pay. I'd be surprised if anyone can.

When I finish my degree this year, either I can find a job, or if not I'm going abroad to do a few more years of studying for free within the EU, not this £10,000+ fee a year shit that you have in the UK now. If I still can't find a job after that (which I highly doubt) then I'm going underground. And it's not like my degree is some course which has always had shit job prospects, like history of art or something.

I don't have 12, 18 or 24 months to waste working for some greedy corporate assholes who'l pay me nothing. I'll figure some other way out to make money and stay on top, whatever way that may be. I'm not going to play by the rules if the only outcome from it for me is to lose. I play to win, and if I have to break rules to win, I will do so.

To top it off, a lot of fucking companies I come across have these 'politically correct' policies in place, which shift everything drastically in favour of minorities. I bet if I lied on every job application form that I'm gay, Pakistani, Jewish and an autistic dwarf I'd probably get 5x as many job interviews, no shit. All the companies want to look like they're that 'role model', with the most culturally and ethnically diverse workforce there is, which has all filtered down through stupid government policies. You see it in almost every TV commercial nowadays, just pay attention next time. This bullshit tends to die out very fast as you move up the job ladder though, where actual skills matter instead of this fucking crap. lol... I quote examples of foreigners with appalling accents being given jobs, in the UK, in call centres, and I can't hear a damn shit of what they're saying even when I'm talking face to face sometimes. But firing them because of their accent would be "racist"...

/end rant


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.



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Re: Western Slavery - November 20th 2011, 04:10 PM

I know how you feel, im on jobseekers and i hate being on it. So far i have been threatend with the whole 'work for so many months and get paid nothing' routine.
   
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Re: Western Slavery - November 21st 2011, 08:54 AM

All I can say is that this article is ridiculous. Big companies bring in so much money yet they can't afford to hire a couple more people and actually PAY them to work?
I have a friend who's 16. Since August she has applied for over 700 jobs (no exaggeration) she got rejections from 4 of them. No one else got back to her. Luckily she's now working in a local radio station, but how many people who are at college or uni or whatever have the time to spend hours every night applying for jobs? It's insane. Something has to change.


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Re: Western Slavery - November 21st 2011, 08:56 AM

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Originally Posted by Gymnophoria View Post
All I can say is that this article is ridiculous. Big companies bring in so much money yet they can't afford to hire a couple more people and actually PAY them to work?
I have a friend who's 16. Since August she has applied for over 700 jobs (no exaggeration) she got rejections from 4 of them. No one else got back to her. Luckily she's now working in a local radio station, but how many people who are at college or uni or whatever have the time to spend hours every night applying for jobs? It's insane. Something has to change.
Ive been trying to get a job for the last year and it is near impossible, either i dont hear anything back at all or they just downright reject me.
   
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Re: Western Slavery - November 22nd 2011, 09:07 AM

Getting a job is hard, however... to avoid being offered unpaid work you can build up experience?

I have a really well paying job now after I had experience of working in school, volunteering in a charity shop etc.

Experience does make or break it.




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Re: Western Slavery - November 22nd 2011, 12:36 PM

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Originally Posted by Glen Coco View Post
Getting a job is hard, however... to avoid being offered unpaid work you can build up experience?

I have a really well paying job now after I had experience of working in school, volunteering in a charity shop etc.

Experience does make or break it.
I have no issue with working for free a bit. In fact I'd really want the experience, but can't afford 12 or more months without pay. The whole scheme is stupid and engineered by idiots with the combined IQ of a sack of shit.

I'll get my experience abroad, where the minimum wage is probably less than half of what it is in the UK, but at least I get paid. Plus living abroad is generally cheaper, so it balances things out.

For example, if I'm to work for free in a supermarket in whatever position, then I expect to be given free transport to work, free food, free clothing, free accommodation and water in return. Both concepts are just as illogical.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.



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Re: Western Slavery - November 23rd 2011, 07:59 AM

No, that is slave labour! You can't work a 12 hour shift in Tesco for example and earn NOTHING. That's out of order.

Do you claim Jobseekers? I noticed you are in the UK xx




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Re: Western Slavery - November 24th 2011, 10:13 AM

No jobseeker's... I'm a student, got myself a loan so I don't go broke but I find crappy jobs here and there at the moment doing stuff like painting, gardening etc. And I voice record every deal I make because twice some jerkbags tried to bullshit me saying we agreed a lower price. I have a very strong urge to take the money after I throw the recording in their face then, and then sabotage the work by for example pouring weed killer everywhere in the garden. Haven't done it though, garden plants aren't to blame (lol). I don't have a very tolerant response to bullshit and assholes.

You know something else... I've come across this problem for several years now, maybe even going back 5 years. In some firms you'd do your 6 months, or 12 months experience at most (now they want at least 12 months) with them, where they "guarantee" you a job at the end of it, but in the meantime the management changes, economy changes, and they come up with a whole tower of excuses to coax you into still working with them for free, like just another 3 months and you'l get your job. But you don't. And they just keep stringing you along like that. Or if they can't be bothered, they simply say they're restructuring the company and that the position offered to you 12 months ago is no longer available... "wish to re-apply?" (after another 6 months+ of slave labour, because you need different experience for a different position).

I'm not going to waste 12 months of my time, especially if they bullshit me about a guaranteed job at the end of it. Nothing's guaranteed. If they throw that word at me at an interview I'll probably walk out.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Western Slavery - November 24th 2011, 06:46 PM

The article seems hellbent on not using the term, "volunteer" because if you do unpaid work for a company/person, it usually is volunteering and there's nothing wrong with that. It's a great way to get experience but it is very odd when after volunteering for a certain time, you'll get paid for the same work. I've been fortunate to only have 1 job where the agreement was monthly pay, so by the end of the month I expected my pay. Instead, they refused to pay me by using the excuse I was "in-training", meaning I wouldn't get paid despite the verbal and written agreements which stated payment at the end of every month as long as I'm an employee. Thankfully it was a very small restaurant and after discovering other employees were jerked around in the same way, I filed complaints to the government, which surprisingly responded pretty quickly. Afterward, I showed all the other employees the letter and they filed the same complaint. Turns out the restaurant was broke and was hiding behind that bullshit excuse to avoid paying people but now it's been torn down.

It makes sense that certain jobs need experience and education, however, many jobs just need employees who can listen, read and write. Painting walls or flipping burgers isn't a terribly complex job and it certainly doesn't take 12 months to gain enough experience to be awarded payment. In some larger kitchens I worked in, I needed a few days to know where the various cooking ware was stored, the rhythm of other cooks and the chef, etc... . When I went to my uncle's place during the summer to move core samples from the field to the lab, you don't need much experience so having someone work for 12 months before pay is bullshit. Perhaps a month or two is needed to confirm they're a reliable worker because if you're pretty certain of them after 9 months, you're not going to gain a whole lot more knowledge in 3 additional months.

Most university students work not for fun but because they need the money, so they'll have motivation to do good work, otherwise they're given the boot.


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Re: Western Slavery - November 25th 2011, 04:46 AM

Pretty digusting frankly.
Big bussinesses aren't willing to give money for work experience but I seem to get $100 for working a week for a small company.
It's absurd and steps beyond avarice, because this kind of greed is quite pointless.


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Re: Western Slavery - November 26th 2011, 09:03 PM

Or a second idea is to take a job where I don't get paid for 12 months, and just steal from the till, or from the shelves, or steal anything else lying about that belongs to the company which so graciously gave me a job for which I'm given nothing in return apart from false promises.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Western Slavery - November 26th 2011, 10:33 PM

Is that article related to the same thing as this one? http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...y-unemployment
   
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Re: Western Slavery - November 27th 2011, 09:14 AM

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Originally Posted by Boobies View Post
Is that article related to the same thing as this one? http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/20...y-unemployment
Yes. 8 weeks unpaid for crap like stacking shelves in Tesco, with no guaranteed job at the end. I don't believe that. Maybe it's the legal requirement, but from my experience I've seen hundreds of times these firms asking for several months at least.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Western Slavery - November 27th 2011, 09:30 AM

Job Centre tried making me do it, they offered me 'work experience' which I thought could be amazing, I have no experience and it wouldn't hurt to have a referee, but when it can to the appointment to arrange the work experience I said I'd prefer something in admin, to which the lady replied 'Oh, well it will be hard to find that work experience but we have these shops that can offer you work experience'. So right from the start the only work experience I got offered was shop work so I felt inclined to accept. I got told that once I started I'd have to go for the full duration or I'd lose my benefit (this is the bit where it becomes slavery, if you don't go you're money gets taken off you).
So I went for the first few days, ended up have to do two lots of eight hour shifts, and this just depressed me and aggravated my knees so I phoned in and informed them that I wouldn't be going in any more.
The only reason I did this is because we had the option of going on income support for the exact same amount of money, if we hadn't that I'd still be having to do that 'work experience' now.
What the job centre really did fail to mention was a 'probationary week' that there is, so they've been telling people they HAVE to do from the first day when they get a week to decide.
And I was also greeted with 'you're very lucky you know, if I could have stopped your money then I would have' complete arsehole >.>

And don't get me wrong, if the 'work experience' was a guaranteed job and not for as long (which it really shouldn't be) I would have stuck at it probably, but I'm not slaving away doing jobs that are putting me in physical pain and depressing me just just over £1.50 an hour.
   
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Re: Western Slavery - November 27th 2011, 11:13 AM

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...depressing me just just over £1.50 an hour.
So... they actually paid you? . Ground breaking news, considering getting paid for work used to be taken for granted.

You know... the workers in JobCentre have probably been told to try and feed fear into the people that are ignorant of how the system fully works, and tell you that if you back out of the work experience you'l lose your allowance, despite that one week of probation. Why? To drive people faster into taking these unpaid jobs.

Regardless... the allowance is approx. £50 I think. That's the kind of fare you should get for one day of work, not a week.

Not only that... this scheme is a short therm solution at best. There are no jobs... because there are not enough businesses, and the existing businesses are mostly filled up. Now we're just over-filling them. It's not actually creating jobs... God knows what exactly it's doing, I can't figure it out. But it does make sense in one respect... that most of the businesses have no need to employ additional staff, because they're already full... so why should they go through the extra expense to hire unnecessary labour? I don't blame any of the businesses for this... only the assholes in the government who came up with this shit. The government should be somehow encouraging businesses to expand, or for new businesses to develop, which would actually create jobs instead of cramming them with more people when they're already full up. It's like trying to fit 2 litres of water into a 1 litre bottle. It just doesn't work... at best you'l blow up the bottle. Fucking idiots.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.



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Re: Western Slavery - November 27th 2011, 11:33 AM

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So... they actually paid you? . Ground breaking news, considering getting paid for work used to be taken for granted.

You know... the workers in JobCentre have probably been told to try and feed fear into the people that are ignorant of how the system fully works, and tell you that if you back out of the work experience you'l lose your allowance, despite that one week of probation.

Regardless... the allowance is approx. £50 I think. That's the kind of fare you should get for one day of work, not a week.

Not only that... this scheme is a short therm solution at best. There are no jobs... because there are not enough businesses, and the existing businesses are mostly filled up. Now we're just over-filling them. It's not actually creating jobs... God knows what exactly it's doing, I can't figure it out. But it does make sense in one respect... that most of the businesses have no need to employ additional staff, because they're already full... so why should they go through the extra expense to higher unnecessary labour? I don't blame any of the businesses for this... only the assholes in the government who came up with this shit. The government should be somehow encouraging businesses to expand, or for new businesses to develop, which would actually create jobs instead of trying to pretty much fit 2 litres of water into a 1 litre bottle. Fucking idiots.
That £1.50 was my job seekers allowance/30, because that's how many hours they were going to make me do a week. There was no additional pay. It's stupid, because I think the idea of work experience is a great idea, but shoving young people into shops and making them shelf-stack for nothing is just going to put them off working. I mean, they're forcing graduates to do it, it's stupid.
   
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Re: Western Slavery - November 27th 2011, 11:55 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDF View Post
So... they actually paid you? . Ground breaking news, considering getting paid for work used to be taken for granted.

You know... the workers in JobCentre have probably been told to try and feed fear into the people that are ignorant of how the system fully works, and tell you that if you back out of the work experience you'l lose your allowance, despite that one week of probation. Why? To drive people faster into taking these unpaid jobs.

Regardless... the allowance is approx. £50 I think. That's the kind of fare you should get for one day of work, not a week.

Not only that... this scheme is a short therm solution at best. There are no jobs... because there are not enough businesses, and the existing businesses are mostly filled up. Now we're just over-filling them. It's not actually creating jobs... God knows what exactly it's doing, I can't figure it out. But it does make sense in one respect... that most of the businesses have no need to employ additional staff, because they're already full... so why should they go through the extra expense to hire unnecessary labour? I don't blame any of the businesses for this... only the assholes in the government who came up with this shit. The government should be somehow encouraging businesses to expand, or for new businesses to develop, which would actually create jobs instead of cramming them with more people when they're already full up. It's like trying to fit 2 litres of water into a 1 litre bottle. It just doesn't work... at best you'l blow up the bottle. Fucking idiots.
So, what would you do with scroungers and benefit theives? Personaly i would remove the biggest group of scroungers that live in this country - The 'Royal' family.

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Re: Western Slavery - November 27th 2011, 01:33 PM

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Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master View Post
The article seems hellbent on not using the term, "volunteer" because if you do unpaid work for a company/person, it usually is volunteering and there's nothing wrong with that. It's a great way to get experience but it is very odd when after volunteering for a certain time, you'll get paid for the same work.
Volunteering implies a degree of consent as to whether one undertakes the work without the need or desire for financial recompense. That consent is not applicable when it's under the duress of losing income if you don't accept the position. Also most volunteering is in the realm of non-profit organisations and done for a public benefit, as opposed to boosting the coffers of a large commercial enterprise. It's also not comparable with work experience or probation periods in my view, as the former is usually short term (1-2 weeks max) and is of a suitably low level that it wouldn't qualify as a role in itself, while the latter is in conjunction with a standalone employment contract. Neither of those apply in this case. I have done work experience in the past and found it useful, but if I was told I had to do so for 8 weeks without pay I would tell them to piss off, frankly. I have also had instances where I have done a short-term placement and been paid for it in line with minimum wage laws because of the nature of the work, so there are companies which can and will do this and I see no reason why companies like Tesco et al should be incapable of doing so.

As you can probably imagine from the above, I agree with the view that this is bordering on slavery and will be interested to see the outcome of the action being taken under the Human Rights Act. In the meantime, I would advise people looking for employment to consider using agencies rather than following this route - admittedly you may only be getting minimum wage, but at least you will get something and (as happened with me) it may give you that foot in the door that you need.

Quote:
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So, what would you do with scroungers and benefit theives? Personaly i would remove the biggest group of scroungers that live in this country - The 'Royal' family.
Oh dear. Leaving aside the fact that a number of members of the Royal family do actually serve an official function or otherwise work for a living (such as Princes William and Harry who are serving in the Armed Forces), they actually own the country in the first place. It's a bit difficult to scrounge off something you own, let's be honest.


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If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
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Re: Western Slavery - November 27th 2011, 03:35 PM

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Oh dear. Leaving aside the fact that a number of members of the Royal family do actually serve an official function or otherwise work for a living (such as Princes William and Harry who are serving in the Armed Forces), they actually own the country in the first place. It's a bit difficult to scrounge off something you own, let's be honest.
I would gladly get rid of our monarchy
   
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Re: Western Slavery - November 27th 2011, 03:43 PM

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I would gladly get rid of our monarchy
Brilliant idea, let's get rid of a large part of Britain's income, that'll help unemployment.
   
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Re: Western Slavery - November 27th 2011, 03:47 PM

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Brilliant idea, let's get rid of a large part of Britain's income, that'll help unemployment.
And here we have it kids, anouther person bending over backwards for the 'monarchy'
   
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Re: Western Slavery - November 27th 2011, 03:52 PM

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Originally Posted by The Goblins Blade View Post
And here we have it kids, anouther person bending over backwards for the 'monarchy'
Obviously, that's what I'm doing. The fact I see the benefits of us having the royal family mean I'm bending over for them, I'm also bending over for chairs, tables, mobile phones, food, water, clothes etc. etc.
   
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Re: Western Slavery - November 27th 2011, 04:04 PM

I'm indifferent with respect to the Royal Family. I get the impression a lot of people hate on them... simply because they're "rich", although I don't think they should have tax-payer's money just handed over to them for simply "existing".


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Western Slavery - November 27th 2011, 04:15 PM

I don't see them paying for our weddings.

I know this isn't a monarchy thread but I just gotta throw that out there. I don't care how much the wedding brought in to the economy, they could've bloody paid for it themselves. And they're also dated and irrelevant. Britania doesn't rule the waves anymore.




   
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Re: Western Slavery - November 27th 2011, 04:26 PM

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Originally Posted by BDF View Post
I'm indifferent with respect to the Royal Family. I get the impression a lot of people hate on them... simply because they're "rich", although I don't think they should have tax-payer's money just handed over to them for simply "existing".
I simply beleive that people should not have control over others, same with the goverment.

Last edited by The Goblins Blade; November 27th 2011 at 04:54 PM.
   
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Re: Western Slavery - November 27th 2011, 05:49 PM

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I don't care how much the wedding brought in to the economy, they could've bloody paid for it themselves.
They did. The Treasury paid for security and transport only, which is within its remit as this was a public event involving the Head of State and their successors, as well as the Prime Minister, other Cabinet members and MPs. Everything else was paid for by the Royal Family and the Middletons.


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If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
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Re: Western Slavery - November 27th 2011, 06:23 PM

I'm not doing too well in the Current Events threads lately

Still, I do think the monarchy is a bit of an outdated thing.




   
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Re: Western Slavery - November 27th 2011, 06:38 PM

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I'm not doing too well in the Current Events threads lately

Still, I do think the monarchy is a bit of an outdated thing.
A bit outdated?
   
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Re: Western Slavery - November 27th 2011, 08:45 PM

The Royal Family isn't responsible for slave labour, at least not in the 21st century. Keep this on topic.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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