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  (#41 (permalink)) Old
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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 24th 2012, 09:09 PM

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Originally Posted by girlfromsocal View Post
yea more of the time than not it is against girls who have heterosexual sex. Most of the time when it's an issue about attraction or about sex heterosexuals will usually be the majority within it. There are more straight than gays. Reason why. I don't think whore or slut or any derogatory word should be acceptable just because she figures that's what judgemental people would say this.

And you haven't? Well I actually know several cases where girls want to fight a girl because related issues to this. And yea we have this misconception that if a girl sleeps with we believe is too much she may be treated as though she is less than... When she's not I think that's the attitude here you express that clearly.

I guess since gays will say the words that were derogatory I guess it's fine to call them by it maliciously.
I think that the only time a girl wants to fight another girl who she believes is a slut is when that girl has slept with her boyfriend. And hey "chicks before dicks" you sleep with someone else's guy I think at least a slap is warranted.

So yeah most of the times sluts are heterosexual, that's actually saying a good thing about homosexuals. But still if a girl is being called a slut it has nothing to do with her being straight.

Again though I've never seen a girl who is known to be promiscuous being treated any less better than anyone else. Heck slut has even become a term of endearment, as has bitch. I knew girls who slept around in high school, I might have thought a bit less of them but I never treated them any differently. I may judge, everyone does, it's just acting on your judgments that can create a problem.

That's the best response I can give. I am having trouble understanding some of your sentences.


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  (#42 (permalink)) Old
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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 25th 2012, 12:04 AM

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Originally Posted by thebigmole View Post
I think that the only time a girl wants to fight another girl who she believes is a slut is when that girl has slept with her boyfriend. And hey "chicks before dicks" you sleep with someone else's guy I think at least a slap is warranted.

So yeah most of the times sluts are heterosexual, that's actually saying a good thing about homosexuals. But still if a girl is being called a slut it has nothing to do with her being straight.

Again though I've never seen a girl who is known to be promiscuous being treated any less better than anyone else. Heck slut has even become a term of endearment, as has bitch. I knew girls who slept around in high school, I might have thought a bit less of them but I never treated them any differently. I may judge, everyone does, it's just acting on your judgments that can create a problem.

That's the best response I can give. I am having trouble understanding some of your sentences.
well that proves me right you do the same thing as homophobes you judge someone for the sexuality and sexual practices. You say what you see as promiscuity is wrong. I could say I think anyone who isn't a virgin and never been married is wrong. But that would be way ignorant and closeminded. What's the difference with yours? I know that for everyone that you can judge wrongfully and bully someone could bully you for the same thing. There's someone 'better'. You think promiscuity is wrong. It may not be for you but there's nothing with it. It's not your place to judge what she does with her body. Homophobes say who they think people should sleep with. And you say the same thing. Many people would call anyone who said the member of the same sex should not have sex. They'd be call homophobes. You say the same thing that girls should not sleep with this or this person. It's none of your business and getting upset at what she does with her private property is no different from the old homophobe.

Also you sound a bit sexist. You know she's not to blame for the fact that someone's man cheated don't you? The guy's at complete fault for cheating. She didn't cheat. And he's not a child he's responsible for his actions no one else's. That's the old ways of how women were always faulted for this. I guess I like to do away with old ways. More progressive you know.
   
  (#43 (permalink)) Old
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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 25th 2012, 12:17 AM

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Originally Posted by girlfromsocal View Post
well that proves me right you do the same thing as homophobes you judge someone for the sexuality and sexual practices. You say what you see as promiscuity is wrong. I could say I think anyone who isn't a virgin and never been married is wrong. But that would be way ignorant and closeminded. What's the difference with yours? I know that for everyone that you can judge wrongfully and bully someone could bully you for the same thing. There's someone 'better'. You think promiscuity is wrong. It may not be for you but there's nothing with it. It's not your place to judge what she does with her body. Homophobes say who they think people should sleep with. And you say the same thing. Many people would call anyone who said the member of the same sex should not have sex. They'd be call homophobes. You say the same thing that girls should not sleep with this or this person. It's none of your business and getting upset at what she does with her private property is no different from the old homophobe.

Also you sound a bit sexist. You know she's not to blame for the fact that someone's man cheated don't you? The guy's at complete fault for cheating. She didn't cheat. And he's not a child he's responsible for his actions no one else's. That's the old ways of how women were always faulted for this. I guess I like to do away with old ways. More progressive you know.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!!! Yes of course the guy is to blame as well but the girl is also at fault, just as much fault actually. It takes two to have sex, it takes two to cheat. Now if the girl didn't know he was taken that's one thing, but if she knew then she's a bitch to sleep with someone else's guy period. That's a line you do NOT cross, I don't care what feelings you have. I'm sorry this is just upsetting me because it's been something I've been in the middle of lately. Two friends, the guy has a long distance girlfriend, they flirted and girl got all pissed when he started moving away from her because he wanted to stay with his girl friend. While he was wrong for leading her on, she was wrong to EVER go near him in that way knowing he has a girlfriend. I mean I was crushing hard on the guy too, he was very flirty, but no matter my feelings for him I always shut him down out of respect for his girlfriend, who I had never even met. YOU DO NOT MESS WITH GUYS WHO ARE IN A RELATIONSHIP!!!! So yes obviously I think poorly of girls who would do that, and yes the term slut would pop into my mind, but so does the term cheating bastard when I think of the guy as well. It's equal faults. I mean if a guy slept with a friend's girl I would thoroughly support the guy to get punched in the face, deservingly so.

Also I think it's perfectly acceptable for society to set SOME boundaries about who people are allowed to sleep with. For example, adults shouldn't be allowed to sleep with children, or animals. Nobody should sleep with a married person unless they are the one married to that person, I mean come on Bill Clinton was nearly impeached for his own cheating and Monica became one of the most famous sluts ever. Ooh and let's not forget the parade of Tiger Wood's whores, granted they ended up becoming famous for their part in it, he got most of the hate, and understandably so. We as a society have these judgments for reasons, protection of the people who are harmed in these actions for example. The big difference between that and homophobia is that in a consensual homosexual relationship there is no one harmed. And that's why that judgment is wrong and ridiculous.


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Last edited by thebigmole; March 25th 2012 at 12:29 AM.
   
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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 25th 2012, 01:02 AM

I'm definitely siding with thebigmole here. She's not being sexist, at all. If the girl slept with a guy knowing he had a girlfriend, she's at fault too. Personally? I would NEVER have any sexual relations with someone I was not in a committed long term relationship with. I see no point in sleeping around. Have pent up sexual tensions? Masturbate. I don't like sleeping around, and I would never do it. I'm loyal to my boyfriend, and he is the only man whom I will let touch me in a sexual way.


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  (#45 (permalink)) Old
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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 25th 2012, 01:48 AM

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Originally Posted by girlfromsocal View Post
yea more of the time than not it is against girls who have heterosexual sex. Most of the time when it's an issue about attraction or about sex heterosexuals will usually be the majority within it. There are more straight than gays. Reason why. I don't think whore or slut or any derogatory word should be acceptable just because she figures that's what judgemental people would say this.

And you haven't? Well I actually know several cases where girls want to fight a girl because related issues to this. And yea we have this misconception that if a girl sleeps with we believe is too much she may be treated as though she is less than... When she's not I think that's the attitude here you express that clearly.

I guess since gays will say the words that were derogatory I guess it's fine to call them by it maliciously.
i have argued with you over sexuality before, and 1) a girl doesnt get called a slut just because she is straight she gets called a slut for sleeping around with people, so what if its guys, its still sleeping around, doesnt matter if its a boy or girl, it still makes her a slut no matter the sexuality, sexuality has nothing to do with being a slut BESIDES who you slept with , people dont say "youre a slut for being straight" they say "youre a slut for sleeping with all those people"


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  (#46 (permalink)) Old
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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 25th 2012, 03:09 AM

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Originally Posted by Koharuchan View Post
I'm definitely siding with thebigmole here. She's not being sexist, at all. If the girl slept with a guy knowing he had a girlfriend, she's at fault too. Personally? I would NEVER have any sexual relations with someone I was not in a committed long term relationship with. I see no point in sleeping around. Have pent up sexual tensions? Masturbate. I don't like sleeping around, and I would never do it. I'm loyal to my boyfriend, and he is the only man whom I will let touch me in a sexual way.
this is exactly what my mom says about homosexuals.... Masturbate.

To me I don't think you have a right to tell anyone what to do with their body besides yourself. That's all I think. You're no different than a homophobe who says gays shouldn't do this or that. Adultery hurts no one. And she isn't to blame she didn't force him to sleep with her. She is at fault with single guys.

I don't see the point in sex outside of marriage personally actually before I'm done with college. But I'm not going to implement those feelings on anyone else long ago people who slept with one guy unmarried were called sluts... So how would you feel being put in that same label as them as those who sleep around... It's all apart of perception. That's why I don't like this grey area measure of things.
   
  (#47 (permalink)) Old
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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 25th 2012, 03:16 AM

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Originally Posted by RadkeLover View Post


i have argued with you over sexuality before, and 1) a girl doesnt get called a slut just because she is straight she gets called a slut for sleeping around with people, so what if its guys, its still sleeping around, doesnt matter if its a boy or girl, it still makes her a slut no matter the sexuality, sexuality has nothing to do with being a slut BESIDES who you slept with , people dont say "youre a slut for being straight" they say "youre a slut for sleeping with all those people"
when did we have this convo I don't remember it

it's sexual practices her sexuality what it entails is different for girl to girl.

'sleeping around' is not a bad thing if it hurts no one it's not their business. I don't think anyone has a right to tell her what to do with her body that is either if it's her lover's gf/wife or her husband or her parents or anyone. No one has a right to chastize her for her being herself. I think I want to give it up though because isn't this about gays? So could well private message each other if you want to further this. Because anyway we're not getting anywhere this way.

Last edited by girlfromsocal; March 25th 2012 at 03:23 AM.
   
  (#48 (permalink)) Old
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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 25th 2012, 03:22 AM

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ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!!! Yes of course the guy is to blame as well but the girl is also at fault, just as much fault actually. It takes two to have sex, it takes two to cheat. Now if the girl didn't know he was taken that's one thing, but if she knew then she's a bitch to sleep with someone else's guy period. That's a line you do NOT cross, I don't care what feelings you have. I'm sorry this is just upsetting me because it's been something I've been in the middle of lately. Two friends, the guy has a long distance girlfriend, they flirted and girl got all pissed when he started moving away from her because he wanted to stay with his girl friend. While he was wrong for leading her on, she was wrong to EVER go near him in that way knowing he has a girlfriend. I mean I was crushing hard on the guy too, he was very flirty, but no matter my feelings for him I always shut him down out of respect for his girlfriend, who I had never even met. YOU DO NOT MESS WITH GUYS WHO ARE IN A RELATIONSHIP!!!! So yes obviously I think poorly of girls who would do that, and yes the term slut would pop into my mind, but so does the term cheating bastard when I think of the guy as well. It's equal faults. I mean if a guy slept with a friend's girl I would thoroughly support the guy to get punched in the face, deservingly so.

Also I think it's perfectly acceptable for society to set SOME boundaries about who people are allowed to sleep with. For example, adults shouldn't be allowed to sleep with children, or animals. Nobody should sleep with a married person unless they are the one married to that person, I mean come on Bill Clinton was nearly impeached for his own cheating and Monica became one of the most famous sluts ever. Ooh and let's not forget the parade of Tiger Wood's whores, granted they ended up becoming famous for their part in it, he got most of the hate, and understandably so. We as a society have these judgments for reasons, protection of the people who are harmed in these actions for example. The big difference between that and homophobia is that in a consensual homosexual relationship there is no one harmed. And that's why that judgment is wrong and ridiculous.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/adultery

no the one in the relationship is the only one who's cheating.

sleeping with an animal or child hurts someone.
It doesn't hurt either participant adultery doesn't either consenting participants.


you're putting your feelings onto someone who isn't obligated to play by your rules. Not everyone is like you.

Also sleeping with a taken guy doesn't make one a slut they could have been with only one guy....
   
  (#49 (permalink)) Old
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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 25th 2012, 03:48 AM

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http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/adultery

no the one in the relationship is the only one who's cheating.

sleeping with an animal or child hurts someone.
It doesn't hurt either participant adultery doesn't either consenting participants.


you're putting your feelings onto someone who isn't obligated to play by your rules. Not everyone is like you.

Also sleeping with a taken guy doesn't make one a slut they could have been with only one guy....
Might not make you a slut but it still makes you a cold hearted bitch, at least if you are doing it with someone you know's guy. We are obviously never going to agree on this. Personally I find both people who partake in the cheating sex to be in the wrong. And it certainly is hurting someone, it's hurting the person who is being cheated on. It's such a form of betrayal, it's not something I could ever get over. And the fact that you seem to think it's okay to sleep with someone who is dating someone else is very troubling to me. How would you feel if you were the one being cheated on? If a girl is so desperate for sex that she has to go with a guy who is taken, seems a bit slutty to me.


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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 25th 2012, 04:45 AM

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Originally Posted by girlfromsocal View Post
this is exactly what my mom says about homosexuals.... Masturbate.

To me I don't think you have a right to tell anyone what to do with their body besides yourself. That's all I think. You're no different than a homophobe who says gays shouldn't do this or that. Adultery hurts no one. And she isn't to blame she didn't force him to sleep with her. She is at fault with single guys.

I don't see the point in sex outside of marriage personally actually before I'm done with college. But I'm not going to implement those feelings on anyone else long ago people who slept with one guy unmarried were called sluts... So how would you feel being put in that same label as them as those who sleep around... It's all apart of perception. That's why I don't like this grey area measure of things.
I have only one thing to say to you.

NEVER compare me to a homophobe. Homophobes are ignorant and close-minded. They can't see that their hatred of homosexuals only causes more pain.

I am an activist for gay rights. I have several very close friends who are gay. It is beyond insulting to me to compare me to a homophobe.

Also, I NEVER told anyone what they can and can't do with their own bodies. I'm simply voicing my opinion that I believe it is wrong to sleep around, and I believe if you knowingly sleep with a man who has a girlfriend, you are also at fault. That is my opinion. Did I say you're not allowed to do that? NO. I said I believe it is wrong.

I don't sleep around. But I've been called a slut, I've been called a whore. I've also been called a fag, a retard, a shitbag, a hoe, a bitch, an ugly witch, and many many other names. I've dealt with MORE than my fair share of bullying. And guess what? None of it was because I'm straight. It was simply because I am different. This thread was about gay bullying. And I understand gay bullying shouldn't take priority. Bullying is bullying, no matter who you're bullying. I was on the recieving end of merciless bullying that often escalated to beatings from a group of people for YEARS. I know better than a lot of people how it feels to be bullied. That's why I don't bully or judge. Yes, I may believe it is wrong to sleep around. But I will not judge you for it. Because then I would only be becoming the bullies that so often judged me.


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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 25th 2012, 04:54 AM

Yeah what I also think that girlfromsocal is missing is that homophobia is about so much more than calling someone a name. Homophobes condemn gay people, tell them that their very existence is wrong and disgusting, and actively try to deny rights to them. However the MOST IMPORTANT difference between calling a person who sleeps around a slut (or my personal favorite term for guys: man whore) is that homophobes are judging people for something THEY HAVE NO CONTROL OVER. However last time I checked a person does have control over how many people they sleep with. There is a difference between a gay person just being themselves, and someone who CHOOSES to act, well slutty. Not to mention sleeping around is just stupid, they usually don't use protection which is dangerous for a number of reasons, and truly it only causes drama in their lives, I can't imagine the sex is really worth it. Oh and though I don't believe in Hell, cheaters can rot in it

EDIT: I'd also like to clarify my definition of "sleeping around". Mainly I see it as having many one night stands, hoping from one guy to the next within a few days or weeks. I do NOT think that people who have been in multiple sexual RELATIONSHIPS are sluts. If a girl has had several boyfriends who they were sexually active with that doesn't make them a slut.


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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 25th 2012, 09:25 AM

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Might not make you a slut but it still makes you a cold hearted bitch, at least if you are doing it with someone you know's guy. We are obviously never going to agree on this. Personally I find both people who partake in the cheating sex to be in the wrong. And it certainly is hurting someone, it's hurting the person who is being cheated on. It's such a form of betrayal, it's not something I could ever get over. And the fact that you seem to think it's okay to sleep with someone who is dating someone else is very troubling to me. How would you feel if you were the one being cheated on? If a girl is so desperate for sex that she has to go with a guy who is taken, seems a bit slutty to me.

Not desperate that could be the guy she's actually only found attractive. As a straight female I can tell you most guys aren't attractive imo. Some have bellies some have too much muscle many have unflattering faces. Masculinity is actually unattractive which limits a girl like my type's choices. Legally only the married individual is at fault in some states. Because they made the promise to commit. Who is his wife to her? She never promised a thing. You can't expect everyone to have


Also some people have different desires some can't handle monogamy. I myself know I could never commit. So reason why they don't go for relationships because not everyone can be in a relationship... Some of us obviously can't control that we just don't like monogamy? Not everyone can live life like you. It's not just gay and straight there are other variations...

They aren't being physically harmed. It hurts some parents to find out their kid is gay. Divorce hurts kids of the parents. Indirect pain is not the same as deliberate pain.



"EDIT: I'd also like to clarify my definition of "sleeping around". Mainly I see it as having many one night stands, hoping from one guy to the next within a few days or weeks. I do NOT think that people who have been in multiple sexual RELATIONSHIPS are sluts. If a girl has had several boyfriends who they were sexually active with that doesn't make them a slut."


that's your definition but who's definition reigns supreme? Someone could say someone who sleeps with one guy unmarried is a slut? Who's correct who's incorrect? I personally think no one.

Last edited by girlfromsocal; March 25th 2012 at 09:37 AM.
   
  (#53 (permalink)) Old
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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 25th 2012, 09:33 AM

I've been for gay rights since I was 6. I thought it was legal because I didn't see the distinction.

I'm just saying invoking violence on someone because you didn't like what they did with someone else to me makes them the perp. I would just break up with the jerk and move on. No need to resort unwarranted violence that's all.
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I have only one thing to say to you.

NEVER compare me to a homophobe. Homophobes are ignorant and close-minded. They can't see that their hatred of homosexuals only causes more pain.

I am an activist for gay rights. I have several very close friends who are gay. It is beyond insulting to me to compare me to a homophobe.

Also, I NEVER told anyone what they can and can't do with their own bodies. I'm simply voicing my opinion that I believe it is wrong to sleep around, and I believe if you knowingly sleep with a man who has a girlfriend, you are also at fault. That is my opinion. Did I say you're not allowed to do that? NO. I said I believe it is wrong.

I don't sleep around. But I've been called a slut, I've been called a whore. I've also been called a fag, a retard, a shitbag, a hoe, a bitch, an ugly witch, and many many other names. I've dealt with MORE than my fair share of bullying. And guess what? None of it was because I'm straight. It was simply because I am different. This thread was about gay bullying. And I understand gay bullying shouldn't take priority. Bullying is bullying, no matter who you're bullying. I was on the recieving end of merciless bullying that often escalated to beatings from a group of people for YEARS. I know better than a lot of people how it feels to be bullied. That's why I don't bully or judge. Yes, I may believe it is wrong to sleep around. But I will not judge you for it. Because then I would only be becoming the bullies that so often judged me.
   
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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 25th 2012, 09:01 PM

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Originally Posted by girlfromsocal View Post
I've been for gay rights since I was 6. I thought it was legal because I didn't see the distinction.

I'm just saying invoking violence on someone because you didn't like what they did with someone else to me makes them the perp. I would just break up with the jerk and move on. No need to resort unwarranted violence that's all.
First of all, when did I say anything about invoking violence on anyone? Again, I only stated that sleeping around, especially with people who are in relationships, isn't right.

Second, from something you said in a previous post. You said "adultery doesn't hurt anyone." Do you really believe that? Honestly, I don't understand how you could say nobody is hurt by adultery. How about the person that's being cheated on? The spouse/partner in the relationship whose other was unfaithful would be devastated! So yes, adultery does hurt people. Think for a minute, if you were married or were in a committed relationship with someone, and your partner cheated, you wouldn't be hurt, right? Because adultery hurts no one?


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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 25th 2012, 09:53 PM

My only question is; Why did the teachers let this continue?


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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 26th 2012, 06:48 AM

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Originally Posted by Koharuchan View Post
First of all, when did I say anything about invoking violence on anyone? Again, I only stated that sleeping around, especially with people who are in relationships, isn't right.

Second, from something you said in a previous post. You said "adultery doesn't hurt anyone." Do you really believe that? Honestly, I don't understand how you could say nobody is hurt by adultery. How about the person that's being cheated on? The spouse/partner in the relationship whose other was unfaithful would be devastated! So yes, adultery does hurt people. Think for a minute, if you were married or were in a committed relationship with someone, and your partner cheated, you wouldn't be hurt, right? Because adultery hurts no one?
I know you did not I was responding to mole.

It's indirect hurt not deliberate.

Like I said it hurts no one directly this same argument can be for gays parents of gays can be really hurt that they're gay. But they have no say or control in what they do same with a partner that'ss being cheated on...

Last edited by girlfromsocal; March 26th 2012 at 07:11 AM.
   
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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 26th 2012, 03:02 PM

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Originally Posted by girlfromsocal View Post
I know you did not I was responding to mole.

It's indirect hurt not deliberate.

Like I said it hurts no one directly this same argument can be for gays parents of gays can be really hurt that they're gay. But they have no say or control in what they do same with a partner that'ss being cheated on...
Yes, it is. If you knowingly cheat on your partner, your partner will be hurt. You know this when you make the decision to cheat. If you cheat you know damn well somebody is going to get hurt, so no, it's not indirect, it is deliberate hurt.

Also, you completely dodged my question. I specifically asked if you would be hurt if your partner cheated on you. You didn't answer. I'm guessing you wouldn't be hurt, correct? After all, like you said, adultery hurts no one, right?


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Last edited by Koharuchan; March 26th 2012 at 03:11 PM.
   
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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 26th 2012, 05:26 PM

no I wouldn't be I'd move on
   
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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 26th 2012, 05:48 PM

girlfromsocal I certainly hope that you never get cheated on. But if it ever does happen you are going to look back on this and think, what the hell was I thinking. If you love someone it's a HELL of a lot harder than you think to just "move on". Betrayal by someone you love and care about destroys some people. It destroys self confidence, and the ability to trust most anyone. It's really not something that most people can just move on from, and if they can they obviously didn't care much about the person who cheated on them anyway.


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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - March 26th 2012, 07:38 PM

yeah thing is I'd not want him if he's not going to save himself at least while we're together. Like I've said I'm a virgin. If he rather go for a girl who's really loose that's his choice. He obviously wouldn't be my type and I actually would hope if he weren't right that it would come to light somewhere in the first 6 months. I have no say in what he'd do.That's the truth and no emotion can cloud that.

To me if he's cheating the relationship is already broken. There's no need to cry over what's already dead. To me I think I have a lot of choices there are a million more guys that can do the job right....
   
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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - April 7th 2012, 03:18 AM

how can this band be christian ? ... its against all human rights & its promotes and spreads discrimination to an even high standard .... i hope they burn in hell for how they have portrayed the life's of homosexuals and girls who aren't virgins . If i were a student in that assembly i would walk up to them & beat the living crap out of them . Technically everything they say in their song lyrics is promoting bullying considering discrimination is disgusting horrid type of bullying ...


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Re: School's bullying assembly turns into anti-gay assembly - April 7th 2012, 04:39 AM

They're Christian because they say they are. If someone says they believe in the Judeo-Christian deity, that's about as much as you need to come to the conclusion that that's what they are.
It's like any other group or belief you want to identify with; there'll always be belligerent, unrepresentative assholes within it.


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