TeenHelp
Support Forums Today's Posts

Get Advice Connect with TeenHelp Resources
HelpLINK Facebook     Twitter     Tumblr     Instagram    Hotlines    Safety Zone    Alternatives

You are not registered or have not logged in

Hello guest! (Not a guest? Log in above!)

As a guest on TeenHelp you are only able to use some of our site's features. By registering an account you will be able to enjoy unlimited access to our site, and will be able to:

  • Connect with thousands of teenagers worldwide by actively taking part in our Support Forums and Chat Room.
  • Find others with similar interests in our Social Groups.
  • Express yourself through our Blogs, Picture Albums and User Profiles.
  • And much much more!

Signing up is free, anonymous and will only take a few moments, so click here to register now!


Current Events and Debates For discussions and friendly debates about politics and current events, check out this forum.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  (#1 (permalink)) Old
SillyEvee Offline
Member
Experienced TeenHelper
******
 
SillyEvee's Avatar
 
Name: EV
Age: 27
Gender: None
Location: Now

Posts: 511
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Capital Punishment - April 2nd 2009, 09:47 PM

OK, we all knew it was coming.

Are you in favour of the State's right to kill criminals for their crimes? It's OK to answer yes or no conditionally.

For what crimes?
What method of death?
What if new evidence clears the man the State executed? What compensation for the family?
Should the judicial process be any different in "death penalty" cases?
Should only the Federal government have the right, or provincial/state governments only/as well?


--EV--
Congrats Canada's Juniors! 5 in a row!
Last Sunday morning, the sunshine felt like rain.
Week before, they all seemed the same.
And oh, I ain't wastin' time no more
Cause time goes by like hurricanes, and faster things.
--The Allman Brothers Band


Things seem impossible until you start to do them.

PM me anytime. I love to talk. :]
   
  (#2 (permalink)) Old
Hyper Sonic Offline
Banned
I can't get enough
*********
 
Hyper Sonic's Avatar
 
Gender: Male
Location: England

Posts: 2,374
Blog Entries: 23
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 2nd 2009, 09:56 PM

I am in support of the death penalty, I would use it for rape, (attempted) murder, treason and terrorism on first conviction. GBH and manslaughter would get the death penalty for repeated offences of this nature.

For all death penalty convictions there can only be a maximum of two (2) appeals and these must take place within five (5) years, this is to prevent people spending decades on Death Row. If evidence is found to exonerate them this would likely come up in an appeal - it's not the 70s or 80s, DNA evidence is accurate to billionths of percent and wrong convictions are statistically negligible, compensation would be equivalent to the person's earnings with an upper cap of £500,000

The process would not change as existing law cites it must be beyond reasonable doubt. Also I would leave it up to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as to whether or not they implemented it
   
  (#3 (permalink)) Old
TigerTank77 Offline
Rage is the best anesthetic
I've been here a while
********
 
TigerTank77's Avatar
 
Name: Ben
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Location: NY

Posts: 1,534
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 2nd 2009, 10:08 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper Sonic View Post
I am in support of the death penalty, I would use it for rape, (attempted) murder, treason and terrorism on first conviction. GBH and manslaughter would get the death penalty for repeated offences of this nature.

For all death penalty convictions there can only be a maximum of two (2) appeals and these must take place within five (5) years, this is to prevent people spending decades on Death Row. If evidence is found to exonerate them this would likely come up in an appeal - it's not the 70s or 80s, DNA evidence is accurate to billionths of percent and wrong convictions are statistically negligible, compensation would be equivalent to the person's earnings with an upper cap of £500,000

The process would not change as existing law cites it must be beyond reasonable doubt. Also I would leave it up to Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland as to whether or not they implemented it
Nice. Summed up my feelings perfectly lol.


Often I lie wide awake, thinking of things I could make.
But I donít seem to have the parts to build them.
I am so scared of what will kill me in the end, for I am not prepared.
I hope I will get the chance to be someone, to be human.





  Send a message via AIM to TigerTank77 Send a message via MSN to TigerTank77 Send a message via Skype™ to TigerTank77 
  (#4 (permalink)) Old
losing touch. Offline
oh, really?..
Jeez, get a life!
***********
 
losing touch.'s Avatar
 
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Location: UK

Posts: 5,996
Blog Entries: 537
Join Date: January 8th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 2nd 2009, 10:14 PM

I'm in favour of the death penalty, but only for murder. If someone kills someone then i think they should be killed as well. As for compensation for families, i'm not too sure about the amount, but obviously there would have to be some if the person was found innocent.


..and our dreams will break the boundaries of our fears..



   
  (#5 (permalink)) Old
Blackwing Offline
I can't get enough
*********
 
Blackwing's Avatar
 
Name: Zack
Gender: Male
Location: Arizona(Usa)

Posts: 2,830
Blog Entries: 3
Join Date: January 7th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 2nd 2009, 10:17 PM

Depends on the serious crime they commit. Rape/murder yes! Stealing a candy bar no.


  Send a message via AIM to Blackwing  
  (#6 (permalink)) Old
Acheron Offline
El Tigre
I can't get enough
*********
 
Acheron's Avatar
 
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Location: Laying traps for troubadours

Posts: 2,096
Blog Entries: 6
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 2nd 2009, 10:34 PM

I don't believe in giving the state a legal means of killing its citizens. Governments throughout history have proven that they can't be trusted with that kind of power.

And, from a less principled standpoint, executions are expensive.
   
  (#7 (permalink)) Old
Algernon Offline
CPT-1 Phlebotomist
Outside, huh?
**********
 
Algernon's Avatar
 
Name: Holly
Age: 28
Gender: Female
Location: Roseville, California

Posts: 4,124
Join Date: January 21st 2009

April 2nd 2009, 10:36 PM

I'm not for the death penalty based on my view of the bible. When Cain murdered Abel, he cursed to carry on as a vagabond. I believe keeping them in prison is what is right. No matter the crime, I don't think it's in our hands to take the life of another human being.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acheron View Post
I don't believe in giving the state a legal means of killing its citizens. Governments throughout history have proven that they can't be trusted with that kind of power.

And, from a less principled standpoint, executions are expensive.
True. And I believe you can't put a price on a soul.

And how many innocent people do we kill? Is the price of one innocent person worth all the damned that we execute at will?


Geek? Nerd? More like intellectual badass.

"You ran through Africa, and Asia, and Indonesia.. And now I've found you, and I love you. I want to know your name."

Last edited by udontno; April 3rd 2009 at 01:20 AM. Reason: merging
  Send a message via Yahoo to Algernon  
  (#8 (permalink)) Old
Jack Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Name: Jack
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Location: Kingston upon Hull/ Brighton, UK

Posts: 1,494
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 2nd 2009, 10:44 PM

Nope. Capital punishment is simply a relic of a barbaric past. There is very little evidence that the death penalty discourages crime and, in fact, it seems to be simply a form of retributivism. By putting someone to death for murder you have a case of double standards: "You can't take someone's right to live away but we can". An eye for an eye is not an appropriate method of punishment in any but the most basic legal systems.

Also in practice the system will not work, you will never be able to pass legislation which brought in capital punishment unless it has the option for about 5 million appeals in which case it will use up time and resources which could be better spent elsewhere. In most systems the appeals process, ethical treatment of criminals and the building of special facilities makes the whole process costly and almost pointless and in the ones in which that is not a problem injustice is rife.

If it was introduced I would highly disagree for using it on all but the most dangerous criminals. Attempted murder and rape don't make the grade in my book.

I also disagree that any government should be allowed the power to take the ultimate step in curtailing an individuals rights. The right to live is a very important one, why should there effectively be a dictatorship of the majority which impacts so heavily on an individuals rights?

Also people can change, there have been several cases in modern capital punishment systems where they have executed apparently reformed criminals simply due to a sentance passed many many years before the actual execution (E.g Stanley Williams). If people can be reformed where is the sense in arbitrarily killing them.

In short: There is no need for the death penalty and it doesn't work as a deterrant or in practice.

Last edited by Jack; April 2nd 2009 at 11:18 PM. Reason: Adding stuff.
   
  (#9 (permalink)) Old
sushi_error Offline
Member
Regular TeenHelper
*****
 
sushi_error's Avatar
 
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Location: US

Posts: 443
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 2nd 2009, 10:45 PM

I'm against the death penalty. First, the death penalty is very expensive and inmates are usually on death row for over ten years or more. Second, I don't think killing another human being will pay any dues.


Check out my blog: White-Out Blots

How did Mandela get the will to surpass the everyday,
When injustice had him caged and trapped in every way,
How did Ghandi ever withstand the hunger strikes and all,
Didn't do it to gain power or money if I recall,
It's to give; I guess I'll pass it on

- Take a Minute, K'naan
   
  (#10 (permalink)) Old
Blackwing Offline
I can't get enough
*********
 
Blackwing's Avatar
 
Name: Zack
Gender: Male
Location: Arizona(Usa)

Posts: 2,830
Blog Entries: 3
Join Date: January 7th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 2nd 2009, 10:59 PM

What if a country wants a dictator?


  Send a message via AIM to Blackwing  
  (#11 (permalink)) Old
Rican Roll Offline
Member
Junior TeenHelper
****
 
Rican Roll's Avatar
 
Gender: Male
Location: Windy City

Posts: 217
Join Date: January 19th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 2nd 2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
I'm against the death penalty. First, the death penalty is very expensive and inmates are usually on death row for over ten years or more.
This is the main reason I'm against the death penalty. More often than not, death row inmates are kept alive for over 10 years and cost tax payers thousands more. Also, death row inmates are 'privileged' and enjoy seperate lodgings and better meals, etc. Death row inmates also get several times more appeals than a normal prisoner, with many getting successful appeals, or finally being killed after 25 years.

Basically, it is not only more cost effective to give someone a life sentence, but it is also more punishing, as they do not get death row privileges and appeals.


Your life is yours alone, rise up and live it.
   
  (#12 (permalink)) Old
Hyper Sonic Offline
Banned
I can't get enough
*********
 
Hyper Sonic's Avatar
 
Gender: Male
Location: England

Posts: 2,374
Blog Entries: 23
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 2nd 2009, 11:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by xHolyValorx View Post
And how many innocent people do we kill? Is the price of one innocent person worth all the damned that we execute at will?
Yes. "More than 200 men and women have been wrongfully convicted in California since 1990." Source

It is not implausible to say that millions of people have been convicted meaning that (5,000,000-20)/5,000,000 * 100% are rightful convictions. The State has a duty to protect it's citizens and the needs of the majority (law abiding) outweigh the needs of the few (criminals) - that's one of the basic principles of democracy.
It's seen on the news all the time how life no longer means life and how many are let out to re-offend. So far either nobody or only Jesus have risen from the dead depending on your point of view.

Having capital punishment does not mean capital punishment will be used, it's just an option on the table
   
  (#13 (permalink)) Old
Lugez Offline
Asshole
Senior TeenHelper
*******
 
Lugez's Avatar
 
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Location: New Jersey

Posts: 929
Blog Entries: 5
Join Date: January 8th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 2nd 2009, 11:19 PM

Not for the death penalty.

In a practical essence, it is more expensive to send someone to death row, and put them to death than to just keep them in jail for life. It saves the state some money to not execute them. I'd rather my tax dollars go to more important things than killing someone...And I consider life in prison to be more harsh than death. I'd rather die than rot in a prison cell.

Plus, lets look at the 8th amendment of the US Constitution (sorry for exluding everyone else.....).

"Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted."

I think according to the 8th amendment, death can be easily placed under "cruel and unusual punishments." And, in turn, a violation of one's constitutional rights.

And, as Jack stated, there is little evidence to show that it deters crime...
   
  (#14 (permalink)) Old
udontno Offline
</3?
I can't get enough
*********
 
udontno's Avatar
 
Name: Amanda Kate
Age: 26
Gender: Female
Location: VA, USA

Posts: 3,039
Blog Entries: 24
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 01:22 AM

I'm personally for the death penalty. I think that if it is serious enough, then you should be punished by death.


--A
   
  (#15 (permalink)) Old
Heretic Offline
The Architect
I've been here a while
********
 
Heretic's Avatar
 
Name: [060191.1723]
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Location: 43.337557, -89.638498

Posts: 1,695
Blog Entries: 9
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 01:29 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper Sonic View Post
I am in support of the death penalty, I would use it for rape, (attempted) murder, treason and terrorism on first conviction. GBH and manslaughter would get the death penalty for repeated offences of this nature.
Yeah. Pretty much what he said caps it.


Ethos
Pathos
Logos

050516.0029
  Send a message via MSN to Heretic  
  (#16 (permalink)) Old
Frosty Offline
Member
Senior TeenHelper
*******
 
Frosty's Avatar
 
Age: 28

Posts: 790
Join Date: January 7th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 01:44 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
Nope. Capital punishment is simply a relic of a barbaric past. There is very little evidence that the death penalty discourages crime and, in fact, it seems to be simply a form of retributivism. By putting someone to death for murder you have a case of double standards: "You can't take someone's right to live away but we can".
So because people don't, as a general rule, have the right to lock people up against their will, prison is also illegitimate?

Having said that, I oppose the death penalty.
   
  (#17 (permalink)) Old
Gidig Offline
Optimistic pessimist
I can't get enough
*********
 
Gidig's Avatar
 
Name: Maria
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Location: Colorado

Posts: 2,123
Blog Entries: 390
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 01:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack View Post
If it was introduced I would highly disagree for using it on all but the most dangerous criminals. Attempted murder and rape don't make the grade in my book.
So you want to wait until after they rape multiple people, and after they kill multiple people?

After talking to victims of rape, I think that is worse than killing them. Yeah, they're still here, and I think they should be (The victims). But throughout all their life they battle it, like cancer or something, but you can't even treat it medically. And some people will actually think you're crazy. Where if you have cancer, you're sick, not 'crazy'.

I'm all for the death penalty. I would only like to change the law system somehow as to be sure that any people who receive the death penalty deserve it.

As for cost, you're going to have to pay for food, housing, and so forth anyway. And I know I'd be willing to pay to have someone who raped or murdered someone, killed.
Individual rights, I think as individuals we have the right to not be raped on the street, and to not be brutally murdered. I think that people get let out way to early sometimes - though sometimes the penalty is too long, it's usually too short than the opposite.

I also think that anyone who has a life-time in prison should have the choice to be 'executed' or whatever.



The best wayout is always through~
-Robert Frost

Proud member of the LGBT community.

   
  (#18 (permalink)) Old
Tearxstained Offline
Member
Not a n00b
**
 
Tearxstained's Avatar
 
Name: Aly
Age: 25
Gender: Female

Posts: 75
Join Date: March 28th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 02:06 AM

I personally am completely against the death penalty. It is expensive, and really the person who committed the crime [assuming they really did commit it] is not learning, or thinking about what they have done. They commit a crime, and then they die. The end. I think prison is probably a better punishment, they have to live the rest of their life [assuming its a life sentence] thinking about the pain they caused, what they had done wrong and all that stuff. Prison is just more effective. And also I can't make myself think of a situation that gives anybody the right to decide who lives or dies. Everybodies life is worth so much, nobody should be allowed to take that away from them.
[unless that person is brain dead and living only off of breathing machines, I think that could be a good example of when it is the right decision to make the choice for them]


Yesterday is history.
Tomorrow is a mystery.
Today is a gift.
That's why we call it the present.
<3 <3 <3
Gotta Love Kung Fu Panda !
   
  (#19 (permalink)) Old
Gidig Offline
Optimistic pessimist
I can't get enough
*********
 
Gidig's Avatar
 
Name: Maria
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Location: Colorado

Posts: 2,123
Blog Entries: 390
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 02:27 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tearxstained View Post
I personally am completely against the death penalty. It is expensive, and really the person who committed the crime [assuming they really did commit it] is not learning, or thinking about what they have done. They commit a crime, and then they die. The end. I think prison is probably a better punishment, they have to live the rest of their life [assuming its a life sentence] thinking about the pain they caused, what they had done wrong and all that stuff. Prison is just more effective. And also I can't make myself think of a situation that gives anybody the right to decide who lives or dies. Everybodies life is worth so much, nobody should be allowed to take that away from them.
[unless that person is brain dead and living only off of breathing machines, I think that could be a good example of when it is the right decision to make the choice for them]
What would be the point of learning anything if they're never coming out?

As for money all the time
http://deathpenalty.procon.org/viewa...stionID=001000

There are good and bad with money - money is a hard argument to make.

"And also I can't make myself think of a situation that gives anybody the right to decide who lives or dies."
The murderer got to choose. The rapist got to choose who got raped. Why can't we chose who deserves to die, just as they made someone else? Just because you can't think of a situation doesn't mean other people can't.



The best wayout is always through~
-Robert Frost

Proud member of the LGBT community.

   
  (#20 (permalink)) Old
Jack Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Name: Jack
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Location: Kingston upon Hull/ Brighton, UK

Posts: 1,494
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 02:43 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gidig View Post
So you want to wait until after they rape multiple people, and after they kill multiple people?
No because after the attempt they're generally in prison. They don't go "ah well we can't kill you so I guess there are no other things we can do, off you go then."

Not every rapist or attempted murderer is going to reoffend, there is no reason to kill them ALL just because of the minority who do. There was a study done on sexual offence recidivism by sexual offenders, it found that not only did they account for only 13% of the sex crimes committed by all the prisoners released in 1994 the rest being committed by prisoners who had not been charged with sexual offences (87%) in the first place but they had a much lower rearrest rate for ALL crimes as well: 43% of prisoners imprisoned for sexual offences were rearrested for any crime after being released compared to 68% of the non sexual offender prisoners and only 24% of the sex offenders rearrested were reconvicted.

Sources:
Recidivism of Sex Offenders Released from Prison in 1994
Comments on November 2003 Department of Justice, BJS, Report:"Recidivism of Sex Offeners Released from Prison in 1994"


I'm willing to bet that the rate of reoffence by attempted murderers is even lower but I can't find any statistics.

You're not going to undo the fact they've raped someone by killing the rapist, the person will still have to live with it whether you kill the criminal or not. Causing the harm to the rapist needs some good to be achieved by doing it, and there is no good that killing them will do that could not be achieved by imprisonment.

Quote:
I'm all for the death penalty. I would only like to change the law system somehow as to be sure that any people who receive the death penalty deserve it.
How would you do that? We can't even make sure that the people we put in jail deserve it let alone make sure people who recieve the death penalty deserve it.

Frosty I'll reply to your point when I find an article on that which I used for an essay recently. Sorry I know that sounds completely like a cop-out but I want to make sure I explain myself coherently and not in an unbacked up, hangover state like I am now. I explained it badly the first time anyway.

Last edited by Jack; April 3rd 2009 at 02:56 AM.
   
  (#21 (permalink)) Old
onesadgummybear Offline
~Im a mouse. Duh!~
Not a n00b
**
 
onesadgummybear's Avatar
 
Age: 25
Gender: Female
Location: Chicago

Posts: 64
Join Date: January 8th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 02:48 AM

i think only sometimes the death penalty is in order. like if sombody was a serial killer or serial rapist or somthing and they showed no intention to stop after they get out of prison. but then again they could just stay in prison for the rest of their life. and for terrorism. but for the most part i dont think that if you execute sombody no matter what they did you are a murderer you could have been a murderer for a good reason but ur still a murderer.


~There's a 30% chance that it's already raining!~

Official member of the completely Unofficial free hugs Club !
   
  (#22 (permalink)) Old
ATP787 Offline
Member
Average Joe
***
 
ATP787's Avatar
 
Gender: Male

Posts: 135
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 04:08 AM

Nope, I'm totally against it. It should be completely abolished.
   
  (#23 (permalink)) Old
justanothergirl Offline
Member
Not a n00b
**
 
justanothergirl's Avatar
 
Name: Sammy
Age: 25
Gender: Female

Posts: 64
Join Date: March 30th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 04:20 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushi_error View Post
I'm against the death penalty. First, the death penalty is very expensive and inmates are usually on death row for over ten years or more. Second, I don't think killing another human being will pay any dues.
While I am not entirely sure of my take on the death penalty, isn't keeping someone in prison for life (say, 60 years of jail-time) more of a burden on tax-payers than ten years of prison time and a lethal injection? (not saying I am for or against the death penalty)

It is genuinely a question, not an argument. Let me know


...Just a day in the life...
   
  (#24 (permalink)) Old
Member
I can't get enough
*********
 
InSovietRussiaORGASMGotU's Avatar
 

Posts: 2,088
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 04:22 AM

To me, it depends on the crime, the reasons for the crime and how often the crime occurred. Putting someone to death for 1 murder I think is absurd. What if it was simply a little argument, push lead to shove, someone fell, bashed their head and died? Technically, it's still a murder or manslaughter, however, I wouldn't use the death penalty for that.

I'd use it for a serial rapist, serial pedophile or serial killer (depends on their actions they did along with the killings). I'd also use it for senseless torture to animals. Something like common slaughterhouses I wouldn't but something such as repeated torture to animals, keeping the animal barely alive then inflicting more and more pain on it (i.e. asian lady who filmed herself petting her cat, then put the cat down on the floor/ground, and using high heels, dug it into the cat while the cat screamed in pain, she had to flee her area/country to avoid being persecuted or killed).

If it's torture to humans, then it depends on the reason. If it's a person who knows vital national information, then I'd say don't punish the torturerer regardless of the damage done.

But, in the end, the only one I feel strongly about is senseless torture to animals. In my mind, it's fitting to have a few options:
1) Do the exact same torture back to the human, however, you measure how long the animal suffered in minutes and apply that to the human in hours (i.e. 30 minutes for animal = 30 hours for human). Use the same methods, and if the animal died at the end, so does the human. I find the chair, hanging, be-heading, shooting execution, lethal injection, etc..., to be pathetic. Frankly, I'd also support the torture methods of the Brazen Bull or Ling Chi (look them up, although, they are considered to be among the most painful, brutal and funny ones ever documented in history, not my fault if it triggers you when/if you look it up). I'd describe it here, although, I'm sure that'd get the mods pretty angry.
2) If the person tortured and killed multiple animals, then you take the average time of them and do it to the human, same methods. However, you then also take that human's family or friends and have them meet the same fate. While they are being tortured and killed, he must be chained up and forced to watch/hear. Then, once his mind is more or less destroyed (and spirit, if you believe in that), either let him wallow locked up remembering those events for a bit, or make him suffer the same.
3) If it's to multiple animals, then that 1 human can suffer the totaled time all the animals did and undergo the same methods.

I'll apply this to some human to human damage, however, it has to be many crimes, all brutal. Then, they too will suffer and meet the same choices that the animal torturers did.

Call it barbaric if you like, however, I find it unfair for someone to rape and kill 10 people/animals, and possibly torture them, and simply get less than a minute or so of possible pain. It's a farce to the pain the victims went through. This way, the criminal can feel what they did. These methods satisfy one of the beliefs that I believe humans should construct: human slaughter and torture houses. However, that is probably a dream I'll never get.

Although, I'll admit, one should be absolutely sure that the criminal did commit the crime, as hard as that verification can be at times. If it's unsure, then none of that simply because they didn't deserve it.
   
  (#25 (permalink)) Old
Hyper Sonic Offline
Banned
I can't get enough
*********
 
Hyper Sonic's Avatar
 
Gender: Male
Location: England

Posts: 2,374
Blog Entries: 23
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 04:23 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by justanothergirl View Post
While I am not entirely sure of my take on the death penalty, isn't keeping someone in prison for life (say, 60 years of jail-time) more of a burden on tax-payers than ten years of prison time and a lethal injection? (not saying I am for or against the death penalty)

It is genuinely a question, not an argument. Let me know
In theory yes, however in practice there are decades of appeals usually one after the other - obviously the prisoner needs to be kept alive in case the conviction is quashed
   
  (#26 (permalink)) Old
Grizabella Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Grizabella's Avatar
 
Name: Jessica
Age: 29
Gender: Female
Location: Vancouver

Posts: 1,305
Join Date: January 8th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 05:44 AM

True, the chances of someone being wrongfully convicted for a crime are very, very minute. But in my mind, as long as there is even the remote possibility that you could be sentenced to death for a crime you didn't commit, the death penalty is wrong to use.


Not around so much now that school's started

"Live a good life.
If there are gods and they are just,
then they will not care how devout you have been,
but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by.
If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them.
If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life
that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
Marcus Aurelius
   
  (#27 (permalink)) Old
Blackwing Offline
I can't get enough
*********
 
Blackwing's Avatar
 
Name: Zack
Gender: Male
Location: Arizona(Usa)

Posts: 2,830
Blog Entries: 3
Join Date: January 7th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 06:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by YourNightmare View Post
To me, it depends on the crime, the reasons for the crime and how often the crime occurred. Putting someone to death for 1 murder I think is absurd. What if it was simply a little argument, push lead to shove, someone fell, bashed their head and died? Technically, it's still a murder or manslaughter, however, I wouldn't use the death penalty for that.

I'd use it for a serial rapist, serial pedophile or serial killer (depends on their actions they did along with the killings). I'd also use it for senseless torture to animals. Something like common slaughterhouses I wouldn't but something such as repeated torture to animals, keeping the animal barely alive then inflicting more and more pain on it (i.e. asian lady who filmed herself petting her cat, then put the cat down on the floor/ground, and using high heels, dug it into the cat while the cat screamed in pain, she had to flee her area/country to avoid being persecuted or killed).

If it's torture to humans, then it depends on the reason. If it's a person who knows vital national information, then I'd say don't punish the torturerer regardless of the damage done.

But, in the end, the only one I feel strongly about is senseless torture to animals. In my mind, it's fitting to have a few options:
1) Do the exact same torture back to the human, however, you measure how long the animal suffered in minutes and apply that to the human in hours (i.e. 30 minutes for animal = 30 hours for human). Use the same methods, and if the animal died at the end, so does the human. I find the chair, hanging, be-heading, shooting execution, lethal injection, etc..., to be pathetic. Frankly, I'd also support the torture methods of the Brazen Bull or Ling Chi (look them up, although, they are considered to be among the most painful, brutal and funny ones ever documented in history, not my fault if it triggers you when/if you look it up). I'd describe it here, although, I'm sure that'd get the mods pretty angry.
2) If the person tortured and killed multiple animals, then you take the average time of them and do it to the human, same methods. However, you then also take that human's family or friends and have them meet the same fate. While they are being tortured and killed, he must be chained up and forced to watch/hear. Then, once his mind is more or less destroyed (and spirit, if you believe in that), either let him wallow locked up remembering those events for a bit, or make him suffer the same.
3) If it's to multiple animals, then that 1 human can suffer the totaled time all the animals did and undergo the same methods.

I'll apply this to some human to human damage, however, it has to be many crimes, all brutal. Then, they too will suffer and meet the same choices that the animal torturers did.

Call it barbaric if you like, however, I find it unfair for someone to rape and kill 10 people/animals, and possibly torture them, and simply get less than a minute or so of possible pain. It's a farce to the pain the victims went through. This way, the criminal can feel what they did. These methods satisfy one of the beliefs that I believe humans should construct: human slaughter and torture houses. However, that is probably a dream I'll never get.

Although, I'll admit, one should be absolutely sure that the criminal did commit the crime, as hard as that verification can be at times. If it's unsure, then none of that simply because they didn't deserve it.
This sounds about right.


  Send a message via AIM to Blackwing  
  (#28 (permalink)) Old
Lugez Offline
Asshole
Senior TeenHelper
*******
 
Lugez's Avatar
 
Age: 30
Gender: Male
Location: New Jersey

Posts: 929
Blog Entries: 5
Join Date: January 8th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 07:29 AM

On a personal note, I would like to add that I PERSONALLY believe the death penalty should be enforced......If you kill someone I love, I'm going to want you dead. End of story. My response above is more my legalistic/practical views on capital punishment, and I still stand by those.

I like your ideas, YourNightmare, but my only problem is part of #2 in which you grab the people that that person knows. Why should other people be punished for what one person has done? The friends and family of the person did NOTHING to recieve that treatment. If you want to punish someone, then by all means do what you want, but leave others who had nothing to do with it out of the equation.
   
  (#29 (permalink)) Old
thebigmole Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
thebigmole's Avatar
 
Name: Taylor
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Location: Orlando, Fl

Posts: 1,668
Join Date: January 31st 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 07:32 AM

I had to write a paper on the morality of the death penalty last semester. We watched "Dead Man Walking" as something to write off of. Spoilers of Dead Man Walking to follow...There were a lot of girls in my class who were against the death penalty and were sobbing when Sean Penn got the needle. Personally after watching the film, yeah I kinda felt bad for the guy, I felt bad for his family, but when he was getting the injections and it showed the two kids he killed watching, I was just thinking burn baby burn. Murder: intentional, or premeditated, or of passion (though if it's passion caused by abuse that should be taken into consideration). You do any of that, fry. Harsh, yes, if anyone I cared about was murdered and they caught the bastard would I want it to happen, hell yes.


"For Ignorance killed the cat, Curiosity was framed." -Caitlin McGrath

"For this thing we call failure is not the falling down, but the staying down." -Mary Pickford

"But the music's so happy!" -Little Sally: Urinetown

"If our own policies aren't supporting equality then what are we fighting for?"- Kathy Griffin
   
  (#30 (permalink)) Old
Grizabella Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Grizabella's Avatar
 
Name: Jessica
Age: 29
Gender: Female
Location: Vancouver

Posts: 1,305
Join Date: January 8th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 07:56 AM

I absolutely don't think serial killers should be given the death penalty. We don't understand enough about their psychology yet, and killing one that has been captured live would be a waste of a study opportunity.


Not around so much now that school's started

"Live a good life.
If there are gods and they are just,
then they will not care how devout you have been,
but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by.
If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them.
If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life
that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
Marcus Aurelius
   
  (#31 (permalink)) Old
Hyper Sonic Offline
Banned
I can't get enough
*********
 
Hyper Sonic's Avatar
 
Gender: Male
Location: England

Posts: 2,374
Blog Entries: 23
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 03:28 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizabella View Post
True, the chances of someone being wrongfully convicted for a crime are very, very minute. But in my mind, as long as there is even the remote possibility that you could be sentenced to death for a crime you didn't commit, the death penalty is wrong to use.
There is a minute chance that another 9/11 style attack could happen again so should we abandon airport security?
   
  (#32 (permalink)) Old
Jack Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Name: Jack
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Location: Kingston upon Hull/ Brighton, UK

Posts: 1,494
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 03:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper Sonic View Post
There is a minute chance that another 9/11 style attack could happen again so should we abandon airport security?
That's a completely different situation: By abandoning airport security you would increase the chances of another 9/11 style event occurring by not using the death penalty you do not increase the risk of anyone committing murder as it's not a deterrant or a method of prevention, you do however increase the risk of innocent people being killed by the state by using it.

Last edited by Jack; April 3rd 2009 at 03:54 PM.
   
  (#33 (permalink)) Old
Blackwing Offline
I can't get enough
*********
 
Blackwing's Avatar
 
Name: Zack
Gender: Male
Location: Arizona(Usa)

Posts: 2,830
Blog Entries: 3
Join Date: January 7th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 04:01 PM

You can have all the security at the airport, but what about the Boarders between countrys that have little security? still a big threat!


  Send a message via AIM to Blackwing  
  (#34 (permalink)) Old
Jack Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Name: Jack
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Location: Kingston upon Hull/ Brighton, UK

Posts: 1,494
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 04:11 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by YourNightmare View Post

Call it barbaric if you like, however, I find it unfair for someone to rape and kill 10 people/animals, and possibly torture them, and simply get less than a minute or so of possible pain. It's a farce to the pain the victims went through. This way, the criminal can feel what they did. These methods satisfy one of the beliefs that I believe humans should construct: human slaughter and torture houses. However, that is probably a dream I'll never get.
BARBARIC!

But seriously, I'm shocked at the amount of people who agreed with that. I mean wow. What is the point of torturing and killing the criminals? Logically there isn't one other than "it would make me feel good/like justice had been served if they died/were caused a lot of pain" which is foolish because (a) by doing this to the criminal there will be many other people who will not feel good (eg his/her family and friends) and (b) making you feel good is not reason enough for killing anyone, or else I'd go outside right now and kill all the people who piss me off. After all it'd make me feel good and I'd feel that justice had been served.

In order to justify such a thing, you have to show that good can come of it that can not be reached by the current system in place. Torturing and killing someone gives them no opportunity to learn a lesson, in that case there is no need for the torture at least. Of course one could argue that torture makes it less likely they will reoffend after having been put through it but torture has been shown to have rather serious effects on the mind and depending on the severity they may not be capable of doing ANYTHING again (in which case they'd be an even greater burden on the state) or they may simply become more brutal in their methods.

Not to mention human slaughter houses would be rather easy to abuse, plus the very building of such structures would rather ensure their use would it not? The very need for such "houses" seems to imply you expect your methods to be used rather widely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDGE View Post
You can have all the security at the airport, but what about the Boarders between countrys that have little security? still a big threat!
We're not having a discussion on airport security or national security, it really has no relevance to this discussion. I was just bayoneting the strawman so to speak.

Last edited by Jack; April 3rd 2009 at 04:19 PM.
   
  (#35 (permalink)) Old
Grizabella Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Grizabella's Avatar
 
Name: Jessica
Age: 29
Gender: Female
Location: Vancouver

Posts: 1,305
Join Date: January 8th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper Sonic View Post
There is a minute chance that another 9/11 style attack could happen again so should we abandon airport security?
It's a bit ridiculous to compare having a security measure in place to killing someone. Airport security has a purpose - it protects people. The only purpose the death penalty has is to serve as a hypocritical form of vengeance - "It's wrong that you killed someone, and to prove it, we're going to kill you back." Having the death penalty doesn't protect society - the majority of murders are crimes of passion, not premeditated, and thus the idea of possible death doesn't serve as a deterent. Killing serial killers doesn't protect society, because if you're as psychologically unstable as a serial killer is, you're never going to be released back into the general population anyways. A person who commits only a single murder might at some point be released back into the general population (in Canada a murder requires 20 years minimum be served before you even have the chance to get parole), but a murderer isn't granted parole if they're still a threat to society, and even once they are released, strict parole terms are placed on them.


Not around so much now that school's started

"Live a good life.
If there are gods and they are just,
then they will not care how devout you have been,
but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by.
If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them.
If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life
that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
Marcus Aurelius

Last edited by Grizabella; April 3rd 2009 at 05:38 PM.
   
  (#36 (permalink)) Old
Mortalis Offline
Paradoxical Requiem
Not a n00b
**
 
Mortalis's Avatar
 
Name: Harley
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Location: Twin Lake, MI

Posts: 75
Blog Entries: 3
Join Date: April 3rd 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 05:51 PM

I am for the death penalty, on a few grounds.

A) Murder
B) Rape

I have a few reasons why as well

A) Murder is taking life away from others, a murderer that has killed once will have less qualms about killing again, being used to it.
B) Rapists again, will not stop after just one rape, but will continue to assault and rape people as long as they can.
C) Another reason is for the extremely high population of criminals, it is a stronger deterrent.
D) Criminals given life in prison are merely a drain on taxes, which are high enough as it is.

Yeah, I know these are rather overused, but when thought about, they generally make sense (Depending on where you are from)
  Send a message via Yahoo to Mortalis  
  (#37 (permalink)) Old
noise94 Offline
Member
I can't get enough
*********
 
noise94's Avatar
 
Gender: N/A

Posts: 3,231
Join Date: January 11th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 05:55 PM

I am against the death penalty as I see no logic whatsoever in killing people because they killed people.

It's basically saying it's okay to kill.

And anyway, nobody has the right to take someone's life away. No matter what crime that person has committed.

Two wrongs don't make a right.
   
  (#38 (permalink)) Old
Jack Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Jack's Avatar
 
Name: Jack
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Location: Kingston upon Hull/ Brighton, UK

Posts: 1,494
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortalis View Post
I am for the death penalty, on a few grounds.

A) Murder
B) Rape

I have a few reasons why as well

A) Murder is taking life away from others, a murderer that has killed once will have less qualms about killing again, being used to it.
B) Rapists again, will not stop after just one rape, but will continue to assault and rape people as long as they can.
Not true. In the latest study only 2.5% of released rapists were found to have comitted another rape within three years and only 1.2% of released homicide offenders committed another homicide within three years of release.

Along with the stats I provided above surely that makes a good case for not killing them all based on the small minority of people who DO reoffend.

Source: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/rpr94.htm

Quote:
C) Another reason is for the extremely high population of criminals, it is a stronger deterrent.
There is very little evidence to suggest that the death penalty deters criminals.

Source: http://www.amnestyusa.org/death-pena....do?id=1101085
Quote:
For 2007, the average Murder Rate of Death Penalty States was 5.5, while the average Murder Rate of States without the Death Penalty was 3.1
Source: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/fact...-death-penalty

Quote:
D) Criminals given life in prison are merely a drain on taxes, which are high enough as it is.
However as things stand it is far more expensive to implement the death penalty than it is to imprison someone for life.

Sources:
http://www.amnestyusa.org/death-pena....do?id=1101084
http://www.fnsa.org/v1n1/dieter1.html
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty
http://www.ccfaj.org/documents/repor...%20PENALTY.pdf

Last edited by Jack; April 3rd 2009 at 06:28 PM.
   
  (#39 (permalink)) Old
Grizabella Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Grizabella's Avatar
 
Name: Jessica
Age: 29
Gender: Female
Location: Vancouver

Posts: 1,305
Join Date: January 8th 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 06:21 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mortalis View Post
I am for the death penalty, on a few grounds.

A) Murder
B) Rape

I have a few reasons why as well

A) Murder is taking life away from others, a murderer that has killed once will have less qualms about killing again, being used to it.
B) Rapists again, will not stop after just one rape, but will continue to assault and rape people as long as they can.
C) Another reason is for the extremely high population of criminals, it is a stronger deterrent.
D) Criminals given life in prison are merely a drain on taxes, which are high enough as it is.

Yeah, I know these are rather overused, but when thought about, they generally make sense (Depending on where you are from)
Addressing points C and D, there is no conclusive evidence that the death penalty is a deterrent to crime. The majority of murders are crimes of passion, meaning that they aren't premeditated, and that the perpetrator thus does not, at the time, take into consideration the idea that he might be killed for his actions. Also, due to the lengthy appeals process and special treatment given to killers on death row, a death penalty sentence actually costs more than life in prison.


Not around so much now that school's started

"Live a good life.
If there are gods and they are just,
then they will not care how devout you have been,
but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by.
If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them.
If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life
that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
Marcus Aurelius
   
  (#40 (permalink)) Old
Mortalis Offline
Paradoxical Requiem
Not a n00b
**
 
Mortalis's Avatar
 
Name: Harley
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Location: Twin Lake, MI

Posts: 75
Blog Entries: 3
Join Date: April 3rd 2009

Re: Capital Punishment - April 3rd 2009, 06:59 PM

Well, I understand all that, and I'd explain more thoroughly(Sp?) but I have a cold, and am not thinking clear enough to argue my point, on top of that, I don't have much time either, so yeah...
  Send a message via Yahoo to Mortalis  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
capital, capital punishment, court, death penalty, jail, murder, punishment, rape

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All material copyright ©1998-2019, TeenHelp.
Terms | Legal | Privacy | Conduct | Complaints

Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000-2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search engine optimization by vBSEO.
Theme developed in association with vBStyles.