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Religion and Spirituality, Science and Philosophy Use this forum to discuss what you believe in. This is a place where everyone may share their views freely.

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Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 18th 2012, 05:28 PM

Before you post, I am not speaking of any particular god(s), I am speaking of gods in general. So, please, refrain from using religious texts or "faith" as a argument. In other words, apart from religious texts and faith, what do evidence do you find sufficient to warrant your belief in god(s)?

Also, this thread is open for debate. If you don't want your position debated, don't post.
   
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Re: Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 18th 2012, 05:34 PM

I don’t think you are going to find many people who are going to try to provide you evidence.

I know for myself I believe in the Lord and Lady purely on faith. It’s something that I feel is right and good. I make a conscious effort in devoting time and energy into something I know I cannot prove. I don’t think that believing in a higher power is something that is meant for everyone. I think it provides a particular service to those who do believe. But you can’t make someone feel God’s presence. You can’t make them understand your way of thinking. Because faith is just that, a way of thinking. And while I find it essential in my life to work with my Gods and live a life that I feel they want me to… that is not something I can prove to other people. And I feel that people who spend their days attempting to prove that to others are wasting their time. I am all for teaching others who wish to learn about my religious path, but I am not going to attempt to force them to see it my way…. Or attempt to prove to them that my way is correct.




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Re: Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 18th 2012, 06:53 PM

I don't need evidence for myself, which is why I phrased it as I did. What evidence do YOU find sufficient for YOUR belief. Whether I find it evidence (or proof) at all is entirely another story.
   
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Re: Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 18th 2012, 06:56 PM

I believe in God because I had a really challenging childhood but I was always protected from the bad things, and was given so many amazing opportunities in my life that allowed me to become who I am. Like the post above says, I think that for most people it's all about faith: for me, faith that there's someone watching over me, faith that I have someone 'neutral' to talk to and faith that there's more to life than just the earth.
   
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Re: Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 18th 2012, 07:18 PM

To me, the idea of a 'god' was always strange. But, when I stop and think about it, I feel that there must be some power out there that is responsible for, well, being. I admit, I've never seen any evidence and I doubt I ever will, I just like to think that out there, somewhere, there is something that made everything and that deserves our respect at the very least


Women are women, regardless of sex,
and men are men, in the same respects.

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But people are people, whatever their parts,
because what really matters, is inside of our hearts.

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Re: Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 18th 2012, 08:36 PM

My reason for believing is simply one word.
"War."


   
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Re: Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 19th 2012, 03:13 AM

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Originally Posted by 00escada00 View Post
I believe in God because... I was always protected from the bad things, and was given so many amazing opportunities in my life that allowed me to become who I am.
Then, what about those who are not protected from bad things, and do not have opportunities? Did god just wink at you and scorn them?

Also, you had a false assumption. The basis of your belief is that god is a protector. However, just because you were protected, doesn't mean it there was a god involve. You're assuming an attribute of a deity, before having any real reason for believing in a deity. In other words, you're assuming god is a protector because you were protected. Yet, in my case, if I see so much evil, I can still believe in god, but believe that god is evil. However, this still doesn't give a reason to believe in a deity.

Do you understand my flow of thought? If I say, I believe aliens are green. That statement doesn't support that aliens exist. It just assumes they do, and that they are green. Likewise with your belief in a god.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Coenred View Post
To me, the idea of a 'god' was always strange. But, when I stop and think about it, I feel that there must be some power out there that is responsible for, well, being. I admit, I've never seen any evidence and I doubt I ever will, I just like to think that out there, somewhere, there is something that made everything and that deserves our respect at the very least
Why does that something have to be a deity?


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My reason for believing is simply one word.
"War."
Explain.

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Re: Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 19th 2012, 04:13 AM

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Explain.
Survived a IED attack in a vehicle that shouldn't of been anything less then scrap metal. If that wasn't enough reason to tell me that something up there ^ wasn't looking out for me then I don't know what else would.


   
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Re: Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 19th 2012, 05:20 AM

Hey,

so, why I believe in God. I believe in the King of kings, the lord of lords (it does sound a bit cliche but what of it?). So, WHY though. I was raised in a christian home, only my mother in me but before last year I never really called myself one. I was always like oh yeah, have to go to church again uggggggggg.
OKay, so now I go to this church called Elevation, we have three campuses along the coast, one in tweed, one in varsity, one in townsville. And our head pastors are head of the COC (church of christ) which included churchs all over Australia and also NZ. Anyway, we come together for a gathering called The Uprising, awesome experiences and it has the whole atmosphere.
Last year on my first uprising meeting, but second night out of 3 we had this intense worship meeting. Glynn Barrett (a guy from good old Manchester England) came over to DreamCentre (my old church surprising enough). So he had finished preaching and then called upon us to come down the front for worship. And told us all to get into our own places. I was just like sheesh, nup is this guy for real but I felt this force push me. So I knelt down and raised my hands. Halfway through the song I felt this warm breeze, and the warmth spread all over my body. (the air con was blasting away, Rod always kept it freezing in there so I had been shivering and cursing myself not to bring a jacket) and then I felt something, an unknown presence (I have a logical mind, don't like believing in something I can't see/feel you know?) and then I heard this voice, well, it felt like it was in my ear, soon I realised it was a voice in my head, he told me that he had plans for me and that he loved me and will do so through whatever trials I may face. It was just such an awesome moment, I even had tears running down my face. And I hardly ever cried back then.

So afterwards I was shaking as I walked up to my youth pastor, he hugged me and then I blurted out 'Lach, I can't ignore it any more, please, pray with me, I want to have God inside of me' So that day I gave my heart to Christ. And THAT is why I believe in the Holy ghost

Thanks for reading :P

Jay.


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Re: Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 19th 2012, 06:24 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by CorrieUSMC View Post
Survived a IED attack in a vehicle that shouldn't of been anything less then scrap metal. If that wasn't enough reason to tell me that something up there ^ wasn't looking out for me then I don't know what else would.
I'm sorry if you had any loses through this. I've had friends killed, and others permanently injured overseas. However, have you ever considered that it was just a mere coincidence? As I mentioned to another user, you have a assumption that god is a protector. But, if you read two quotes above yours, you'll see why this doesn't prove the existence of god, nor is it a warranted belief. Also, there are people overseas praying to another god for your death. So, when they survive, or kill one of our soldiers, they're probably praising Allah, or whomever. Is god then taking sides depending on who it comes down to and he just happened to spare you or love you more than the others who have died? For example, my friend who was killed, did god just feel like not protecting him? And couldn't someone reason, "Well, nothing protected Rudy so god doesn't exist"?

I don't want to insult you, as I realize in your case this may be a sensitive issue. I'm just trying to understand other people. I'm not trying to get you to disbelieve, but simply am questioning, and seeing if I find any valid reason to believe in a deity because the more I reason, the less I see any room for a god.

Anyways, glad you're okay (even though I don't know you)
   
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Re: Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 19th 2012, 07:09 AM

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Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
I'm sorry if you had any loses through this. I've had friends killed, and others permanently injured overseas. However, have you ever considered that it was just a mere coincidence? As I mentioned to another user, you have a assumption that god is a protector. But, if you read two quotes above yours, you'll see why this doesn't prove the existence of god, nor is it a warranted belief. Also, there are people overseas praying to another god for your death. So, when they survive, or kill one of our soldiers, they're probably praising Allah, or whomever. Is god then taking sides depending on who it comes down to and he just happened to spare you or love you more than the others who have died? For example, my friend who was killed, did god just feel like not protecting him? And couldn't someone reason, "Well, nothing protected Rudy so god doesn't exist"?

I don't want to insult you, as I realize in your case this may be a sensitive issue. I'm just trying to understand other people. I'm not trying to get you to disbelieve, but simply am questioning, and seeing if I find any valid reason to believe in a deity because the more I reason, the less I see any room for a god.

Anyways, glad you're okay (even though I don't know you)
At the end of the day. Its easier to say that I can believe it was him. However like you have said. Many other people have wished for demise praising to their beliefs. That's why My USMC tat on my back has inscribed Religion of Ammunition. I understand where you're coming from. Sometimes i do see that I just play the "God protected me" card simply because its easier in believing


   
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Re: Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 19th 2012, 05:40 PM

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What evidence do YOU find sufficient for YOUR belief. Whether I find it evidence (or proof) at all is entirely another story.
I thought that this was supposed to be simply stating why we hold our beliefs in the deities we do, not to have you refute us with why we shouldn't or point out thinking about other possibilities. I'm not posting here for your opinion; if I wanted it I would ask you. Religion and/or spirituality is a very personal choice, and it's not your place to tell anybody if or how they should reframe or reconsider their beliefs. If this isn't what you are doing then correct me, but I've seen you respond back to a couple different people's reasoning for believing things, saying things like (paraphrase here) "do you think it's possible that it was a coincidence?"

I believe in God because I do. I don't need a book to dictate if He exists or how I should believe in Him, or Her, though I predominantly stick to the idea of a male deity because I see those qualities as a pillar of strength and stability. God exists because I've felt His presence in my life, and experienced His influence, His ability to listen, His capacity for loving me, His strength in times of need and His blessings over me and my family and loved ones.

I believe there is a spirit of light and love that flows throughout the world. People often say they choose not to believe in a God or God(s) because of all the bad things that happen in the world- war, famine, crime, pain and suffering. They don't understand how God(s) could let such things happen to the creation they supposedly love. There is a very long philosophical and theological discussion there that I don't really want to get into right now, but needless to say, despite war and everything terrible in the world, love still exists. Creation still takes place, the world still grows, animals still live in harmony and people still love one another at the end of the day. That is how I know there is a God. Love, and compassion for humanity, and kindness and honest, satisfied living allow that spirit to still show through.

WARNING: Next part may be triggering for those who self harm or those who are suicidal; read at your own risk.

In addition, God physically saved my life, on a couple of different occasions. All of them were self-induced issues. Back when I was seriously self-harming I nicked an artery. I'm not sure if you're aware of what happens when you nick an artery, but I can tell you it's really, really bad. Arteries are the pathways that blood travels going from the heart to the rest of the body, so there is great likelihood you will die when that happens. But amazingly, I didn't. With help from several other people, but primarily on my own, I was effectively able to stop what was happening, and I (obviously) didn't die.

The most recent, though, and the one that really renewed my faith in God, happened about a year and a half ago. I was going through one of the worst times that I ever had; my emotions were a constant roller coaster and my personal life was in complete disarray. Effectively, I had crashed and burned. So one day in a rapid cycling manic-depressive fit I took too many pills of a certain medication. When I say too many, I mean that results should have at the very least been organ failure, and most likely would have been death.

I don't live close to the hospital. I was not in an ambulance. I had a twenty five minute drive in which I could have literally died at any instant. But I didn't. I got to the hospital and they sorted me out. It was still touch and go for a while, but I made it through the night, and the next day everything checked out okay and I was sent to a psychiatric care facility. Not a scratch, so to speak.

I'm not an idiot. I know how that medication worked. The doctors knew how it worked, and were extremely concerned. Sure, I could blame it for immediately having someone drive me to the hospital. I could blame it on the fact I had eaten a decent meal about three and a half to four hours before I took those pills. But I know better. I know that science wasn't all that was at work. I know that I was being told it wasn't time for me to go yet, and that someone was looking out for me.

**End triggering portion**

So yes, I believe in God because God saved my life. I believe God has helped me in my journey to recovery since then; I have been doing splendidly for the past year, I feel successful and responsible and my personal relationships are all healthy, stable, and enjoyable.

If someone else doesn't believe in God that's fine. They have their reasons. But I start to have an issue when someone calls mine bogus.



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Re: Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 19th 2012, 09:47 PM

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Originally Posted by MacGuffin View Post
I thought that this was supposed to be simply stating why we hold our beliefs in the deities we do, not to have you refute us with why we shouldn't or point out thinking about other possibilities.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
Also, this thread is open for debate. If you don't want your position debated, don't post.
I guess you didn't read. I'm glad you are okay, as well.

I am not here to make you doubt your belief, if you are comfortable with your belief, fine. But, as I've mentioned, I am trying to see if I find any warranted belief for a god. So far, however, it seems everyone is saying the same thing, and I find it rather unconvincing. I don't believe in god, not because there is evil. I don't believe in god because I don't see evidence. I don't see it, I don't hear it, I don't feel it, I don't taste it, and I don't smell it. Therefore, anyway I have to experience the existence deity isn't there. I've prayed, but I don't really see the point in prayer, as far as a deterministic (Christian) god goes. If you pray for what god wills, you'll get it, if it isn't his will, you won't get it, so the entire exercise is pointless, and any studies done on prayer have shown it ineffective. I find that the entire observable Universe has a way of being created and existing without deities. So on and so forth, but this isn't about why I don't believe in god. I am solely trying to see the rational for believing in a god, and questioning that rationality to see why people think a certain way and if that way is justified to believe in god in my own mind (and perhaps other Atheists/Agnostics here).

Anyways, I will state: you also come to the assumption that if there is a god, that it is loving, compassionate, and this idea of strength and power. But, why does god have to exist for these things to exist? In other words, why can't god be evil? Why can't the cause of evil be from an evil god? And, well, I don't really see how an emotion supports the existence of a god. You're assuming an attribute of a deity before even showing that there is a deity.

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Re: Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 19th 2012, 10:48 PM

Simple explanation: I believe there are limits to coincidence, and based both on personal experience and experiences of others I find it increasingly hard to believe there isn't something out there responsible for it. To my mind, it's as likely to be a god as anything else.

Longer explanation: How much time do you have?


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If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
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Re: Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 19th 2012, 10:57 PM

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Originally Posted by dr2005 View Post
Simple explanation: I believe there are limits to coincidence, and based both on personal experience and experiences of others I find it increasingly hard to believe there isn't something out there responsible for it. To my mind, it's as likely to be a god as anything else.

Longer explanation: How much time do you have?
I have a lot of time (life permitting). However, I am moving to Texas tomorrow. So, I won't be able to respond till a week or so, provided you do give the longer explanation. Although, if you haven't (which I'm sure you probably have), please read some of my other responses so you don't re-hash similar "proofs," if you will.
   
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Re: Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 20th 2012, 12:18 AM

//quote Mike and Men// I don't believe in god, not because there is evil. I don't believe in god because I don't see evidence. I don't see it, I don't hear it, I don't feel it, I don't taste it, and I don't smell it. Therefore, anyway I have to experience the existence //quote//

Hey there, that was how I operated, still do actually. I have to have everything organisd, everything that I can see, I believe in.
Yeah, praying doesn't necessarily make GOd "appear" to you. It's just an opening, and YOU have to believe with ALL your heart.

Jay. I see you didn't rebuke my other post, haha.


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Re: Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 20th 2012, 01:58 AM

I believe in god because im alive, I had depression for the longest time felt really lonely but he changed my life. now i feel more alive more happy i dont think about suicide anymore.He gives me the strength to continue everyday.



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Re: Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 20th 2012, 06:27 AM

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I am not here to make you doubt your belief, if you are comfortable with your belief, fine. But, as I've mentioned, I am trying to see if I find any warranted belief for a god. So far, however, it seems everyone is saying the same thing, and I find it rather unconvincing. I don't believe in god, not because there is evil. I don't believe in god because I don't see evidence. I don't see it, I don't hear it, I don't feel it, I don't taste it, and I don't smell it. Therefore, anyway I have to experience the existence deity isn't there. I've prayed, but I don't really see the point in prayer, as far as a deterministic (Christian) god goes. If you pray for what god wills, you'll get it, if it isn't his will, you won't get it, so the entire exercise is pointless, and any studies done on prayer have shown it ineffective. I find that the entire observable Universe has a way of being created and existing without deities. So on and so forth, but this isn't about why I don't believe in god. I am solely trying to see the rational for believing in a god, and questioning that rationality to see why people think a certain way and if that way is justified to believe in god in my own mind (and perhaps other Atheists/Agnostics here).

Anyways, I will state: you also come to the assumption that if there is a god, that it is loving, compassionate, and this idea of strength and power. But, why does god have to exist for these things to exist? In other words, why can't god be evil? Why can't the cause of evil be from an evil god? And, well, I don't really see how an emotion supports the existence of a god. You're assuming an attribute of a deity before even showing that there is a deity.
Then you are never going to find what you seek. Religion and spiritual belief (coming from a Christian-Judeo stand point) are built upon faith. Faith is trusting God is there to help you with your problems, even though you have never seen him or spoken to him or seen what you feel is "evidence" of his presence and authenticity.

We can tell you what we believe in and why until the cows come home, but that isn't going to do anything for you, because you aren't us. Our faith/our reasons for believing cannot and will not make you believe. Only you can make that choice based on your own experience. If you feel no personal evidence exists to prove the existence of God(s) then that's okay. I will certainly not judge you. But you aren't going to find an answer just by sifting through what other people think and believe.

What I view as "strength" and "wisdom" is relative. To me, God is strong because he does things that I cannot do alone, let alone do some of them at all. He is a source of comfort to turn to when I am facing challenges, and praying often takes those burdens off of my shoulders. I suppose you could call that "letting go to the universe" if you want. Because they are too much for me to handle alone (i.e. I would crack from further stress), I see God doing that as strength. I see wisdom as fit for One who knows more about the journey of life than I, and who can provide guidance, reflection and transformation as I travel my journey.

Well here you get tricky. What is "Good?" What is "Evil?" Can God even create something "Evil?" Are we just an experiment to God? There are many deep questions there. I suppose God could be evil; however, an evil power is incapable of granting forgiveness, compassion, love, and healing. Evil only destroys and drains; it does not build or fulfill. Therefore, God cannot be evil in my eyes. Could love exist without God? Maybe. But keep in mind because I believe in God I believe that the universe was somehow created by God (I am not, however, a believer of intelligent design). Without the existence of the world there would be no love. Ergo, God fostered love within His creation because God is love.

Sorry if that gets jumbled at the bottom; I am completely exhausted. Have a good night, though.



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Join Date: July 21st 2012

Re: Why do you believe in god(s)? - September 20th 2012, 03:25 PM

'why does that something have to be a deity?'

Sorry about the late reply

to me, 'God(s)' is mearly a concept, a name given to a being of great and almighty power, after all, the main atributes to a god are 'all loving', 'all powerful' and 'all knowing' however, in many religions there are gods who are not all of these things, but are still called gods. 'god' is just a word that we give to a being that is forever beyond our understanding. because of this, you could argue that science, emotion, or anything else along those lines is in fact, a god.

This is my belief, something is responsible for everything, and that something will never be understood by us, we may never even realise that it exists. I choose to call this thing a god, simply because 'god' is the word that i associate with whatever it is that started the universe

Sorry, It's not the best worded response, but words tend to confuse me :P but, hopefully you get the general intent of what i'm saying


Women are women, regardless of sex,
and men are men, in the same respects.

You can be both, or a mix of the two,
or you can be neither, if that's what suits you.

But people are people, whatever their parts,
because what really matters, is inside of our hearts.

*Some poem I found on the internet*
   
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