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Religion and Spirituality, Science and Philosophy Use this forum to discuss what you believe in. This is a place where everyone may share their views freely.

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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
L3@h Offline
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Lightbulb Crumbling - May 22nd 2013, 04:14 PM

Its all crumbling right before me. For three years now I've gone down hill with faith and the whole religion thing. I was baptised catholic, made all my sacraments mostly because my parents wanted me too. I'm captain of religion at my school, probably not such a good idea if I'm losing my faith… as a catholic we have to learn all the beliefs and teachings.
First teaching that got to me was "your body should be respected because it is Gods gift." I've self harmed, starved myself over and over again. Guess that beliefs gone.
Second teaching, catholics do not support gay marriage. I thought catholics were all for equality? But apparently they don't believe in a marriage that can't keep Gods intention of procreation. They don't believe in artificial marriage, but what about those who are infertile? does that mean they shouldnt be married?
I thought marriage was based on love, but its love-giving as well as life-giving. I don't believe in love. Catholicism just seems like people following orders. The Pope says get married, have kids bam you've done your part. does love even exist?? I'm pretty sure Adam and Eve weren't even married... the bible just collapsed on itself.
Oh and the thing about suicide, its beating God at his own game.
   
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Re: Crumbling - May 22nd 2013, 08:50 PM

Some of the things you have brought up are things that I have struggled with in regards to religion as well. I am not catholic but I am christian so there is some degree of similarity I suppose. I will do my best to help you with this topic but the first thing you need to know is that finding a resolution to these problems is something you have to do from within. You can and should talk to other people about it but in the end you are the only one who will be able to figure it all out.

"your body should be respected because it is Gods gift."
--- Our bodies are God's gift but just like any gift God gives us he knows we are going to struggle with it. I believe he see's a persons battle with self harm, starvation or drug addiction and knows they are hurting deeply. Just because we are harming ourselves doesn't mean we have stopped believing or loving God we have just gotten lost in our own personal battles. But, you can overcome those things when you are ready and God will be there (if you want to continue on with your faith) with you the entire way.

Gay marriage --- I believe love is all that matters. I believe that God does not discriminate. There are six passages in the bible that talk about homosexuality and there are different interpretations in regards to these passages. Some people believe that the real word got lost in translation and it was changed to mean homosexuality and the list goes on. My take on it is that due to there being so much controversy over it all no one really knows the whole truth but God. Therefore, I prayed about it and asked God to help me find a solution and I feel that he did; I found that I no longer felt the need to question whether or not God was 'against' gays because in my heart it felt as though he wasn't. Praying and reading the bible helped me with this.

I never thought this would actually help and for a long time I turned away from all of it because at the time that is what I felt I needed to do but over time I went back to my faith.

Suicide
--- I see suicide as someone who lost their fight against their mental illness not winning a battle against God. I don't think we are in a battle/war against God though.

I know this probably didn't help much but that is my perspective and the way I came to terms with those things. You need to work on figuring out how you are going to come to terms with the struggles you are having so that you can work on getting out of this turmoil you are in. What worked for me might now work for you but you can find the answers you are looking for. You don't have to believe the way your parents believe if you don't feel that is right for you because in the end you have to do what is best for you.


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Re: Crumbling - May 22nd 2013, 11:57 PM

First of all, I think the Bible is a highly overrated source of information. So bear that in mind while reading my comments.

On love/marriage: What makes you think love doesn't exist, or that the Church only values children? I believe love definitely does exist, though not as often as the word is thrown around. "Be fruitful and multiply" was a slogan for ancient times, when the Earth's population was minuscule and there was much to be gained by expanding a community of like-minded humans. No longer, but the Catholics still seem to adhere to this doctrine.

On gay marriage: I don't think the concept of two men genuinely loving one another was recognized by biblical writers. The passages condemning homosexuality were likely written to dissuade abusive sexual relationships, such as master/servant. Remember, sadly, women didn't really "count" back then...

On suicide: I think you're way off base here. Beating God at his own game would be striving for eternal life on Earth at any cost. Things like advanced life support, cryogenic freezing, even radiation therapy. Suicide is only beating God at his game if you're suffering from a terminal illness and decide to end the pain before "God intended," if you believe in that stuff. Even then, since we don't know what happens to the consciousness after death, it's more like gambling.

I can think of many reasons to question your faith, but tbh these don't seem like religious deal-breakers to me.



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Re: Crumbling - May 23rd 2013, 03:04 AM

Quote:
First teaching that got to me was "your body should be respected because it is Gods gift." I've self harmed, starved myself over and over again. Guess that beliefs gone.
Your body should be respected, and well taken care of. Most of the faithful of any given religion believe that the body is houses the soul until the soul passes from that body, either into Heaven (in the case of Christians), into another body (many eastern religions, and Orphic Hellenic philosophy), or into oneness with God and the universe (I forget which religion this is). The point is, self-harming is neither good for the soul or for the body. I've contemplated it myself before in my darkest hours, but I've never done it; the bad times have passed, and I have no reminders of them permanently stuck to myself.

Loving one's self is good for any and all, whether the person given is either atheist or agnostic or theist. Your life may not be progressing as you'd like, but you always have the opportunity to change it, or to find a different faucet for your frustration. When I felt the longing to self-harm, I learned to exercise instead -- mind numbing things, like running. I began to feel good about my body (which was partially the cause of my frustration, in the first place), and no longer felt the need to eat one meal a day.

Quote:
Second teaching, catholics do not support gay marriage. I thought catholics were all for equality? But apparently they don't believe in a marriage that can't keep Gods intention of procreation. They don't believe in artificial marriage, but what about those who are infertile? does that mean they shouldnt be married?
This is a difference that simply cannot be resolved. Christianity as a whole tends toward the more conservative side of this matter, which is that gays should not be married. I'd recommend believing what you want to despite the tenants of your religion (if you have only this problem with it, and it seems you have more than one), abandoning your religion for agnosticism or atheism (if you don't need a belief in a higher power to sustain you), or looking into other religions which are more excepting (if you do need that divine support).

Quote:
I thought marriage was based on love, but its love-giving as well as life-giving. I don't believe in love. Catholicism just seems like people following orders. The Pope says get married, have kids bam you've done your part. does love even exist?? I'm pretty sure Adam and Eve weren't even married... the bible just collapsed on itself.
Love is difficult to find, because love is three things: Physical attraction, dedication, and mutual compassion and understanding for the other party. The difficulties which come with searching for love do not mean that love is nonexistent, it means that when you find love, you will appreciate it far more than you did before you knew what you were missing.

Now, on the matter of getting married simply to have kids: If that isn't something you believe, don't believe it. That same physical attraction needed for love must be present to begin a marriage, and a marriage without it's satisfaction is doomed to failure. Having sex is not something which is unholy, unless it lacks morality and is mindless behavior. Sex born out of love, even if not for the purposes of creation, is nothing but the beautiful union of two individuals who are attempting to express their love and care for one another through physical means.

I'm not sure whether Adam and Eve were ever married, however: If you look closely, you will either notice many inconsistencies within the Bible, or you'll notice a profound higher level of faith in God. I'd recommend reading some more of the Bible before making any definite choices in the matter, but I'd also recommend the study of other religions and non-religions. Find what suits you.

Quote:
Oh and the thing about suicide, its beating God at his own game.
I don't believe suicide is the right thing in any case. It's a sorry thing, really, and a cowardly and selfish action carried out when the suicidal party feels their situation is futile. There are always other and more courageous options: Finding another avenue for your inner pain, finding counseling with one source or another, or choosing a cause outside your life to dedicate your self to. You have many reasons to live, among them the people who's lives you will change for existing. Somewhere out there is someone who is longing as much as you are for someone to take them out of their situation, or for someone to love, and you are destined to help that person. By cutting your life short, those people never have the opportunity to meet you, and are never inspired to life; they might end their own lives.

When I was suicidal over a year ago, I told myself this: "If I can get through four years of high school, I'll join the Marines. If I go to war and sacrifice myself for the sake of those around me, I will not have died selfishly. If I go to war and live through it, then I will know that I have a purpose beyond what I think I have at this time."

The hope of joining the military gave me a light to work toward. I researched everything about it, talked to friends and family who had gone to war in different branches of the military, and so on and so forth. On the Army Reserve's website I found a page for military attorneys, and I decided I liked the law; after a little more research, I discovered that I might like to be a lawyer. Now instead of being dead with my family mourning my loss, I'm here to support my mother in her time of need, am returned to the religion I mourned the loss of so much (not the one I was born to, by the way), am graduating a whole year early (at sixteen!), and am busily weighing the pros and cons of different law schools.

There is always hope, even in the darkest hours. You only have to find your source of inspiration and courage, and you will find that no obstacle in this entire world is too much for you to overcome. Incompatibility with your religion may be stifling that ability to find those things, and to pursue what you'd be good at. Maybe you'd make a good advocate for gay rights, maybe you'd marry someone who spoils you like a princess and loves every bit of you, maybe you'd go onto be a suicide counselor. Who knows?

Do not give up.

And I think I've talked quite a lot. If you read all of that, then you've certainly got more patience than I do. Sorry, lol.


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1. Do what you want within the bounds of reason, whenever you want to, and regret nothing. 2. If you have an opinion, don't beat around the bush, or there isn't a point in saying it. 3. Don't keep the company of anyone who won't like you and will try to change you.



   
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Re: Crumbling - May 23rd 2013, 03:05 AM

I was in the same situation as you, believe it or not, trying to make sense of all the contradictions and rules and crap that has nothing to do with anything.

So I'll give you the same advice I gave myself.

Leave it all behind.


Leave all the dogma, the rules, the sanctions that go against your beliefs behind and just focus on that one thing, which was for me, God. Not the bible or gay marriage (which I support with all my heart) or contraceptives etc.

For me, it's a relationship between me and God, all that other stuff is just getting in the way of that bond.
   
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