TeenHelp
Support Forums Today's Posts

Get Advice Connect with TeenHelp Resources
HelpLINK Facebook     Twitter     Tumblr     Instagram    Hotlines    Safety Zone    Alternatives

You are not registered or have not logged in

Hello guest! (Not a guest? Log in above!)

As a guest on TeenHelp you are only able to use some of our site's features. By registering an account you will be able to enjoy unlimited access to our site, and will be able to:

  • Connect with thousands of teenagers worldwide by actively taking part in our Support Forums and Chat Room.
  • Find others with similar interests in our Social Groups.
  • Express yourself through our Blogs, Picture Albums and User Profiles.
  • And much much more!

Signing up is free, anonymous and will only take a few moments, so click here to register now!


Religion and Spirituality, Science and Philosophy Use this forum to discuss what you believe in. This is a place where everyone may share their views freely.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  (#1 (permalink)) Old
Not_here Offline
Member
I can't get enough
*********
 
Not_here's Avatar
 
Name: nobody
Gender: Other

Posts: 2,538
Blog Entries: 571
Join Date: October 24th 2011

poor people and crime - June 20th 2013, 01:44 AM

Today I went to an office to do some boring adult stuff with my dad
Anyway...it's an office that people go to for public assistance, such as food stamp, medicaid, welfare etc
So I'm sitting there and this lady starts talking in arabic to the person next to her about the people there. From what I understand (I understand arabic so I couldn't resist listening to their conversation ) she is saying that the people here "are scary".

Fast forward to when we left that place. I was telling my dad what I overheard. He said crime is linked to poverty. So he's saying that poor people are more likely to do crime, not because they're bad people but because they don't have opportunity and if they were given jobs and better education, they'd have enough money to sustain themselves and their families and won't join gangs or sell drugs.

While I see what he's saying, I personally feel like he's not thinking for himself, or if he is, he's not thinking deep enough. I thought the same thing until I started doing my own research/thinking/reflecting etc and really the internet changed my understanding of society.

So I disagree because well, the idea of more or less crime, and what is a crime in the first place? Whether you believe there's such thing as the illuminati or not, I think it's pretty clear that the government has a lot of money and power and authority and they often abuse that...isn't that a crime? Next would be corporations....these are crimes that are committed on a wider scale, shouldn't it be considered a crime too?
Drug abuse...using sociological imagination I can say that we have to look into the claims that say poor people do more drugs than rich people. For example, how is this measured? Maybe the rich people just don't get caught. Same thing with prisons. If we looked at a prison and say that African American men are more likely to do crimes...it's not necessarily true. Just because more are in prison, doesn't mean they do more crimes. You see what I'm getting at?
So can we really say poor people do more crimes? First it depends what crime, then it depends how we measure who does what crime and we have to define what it means to be poor. My point is that it goes a lot deeper than a simple statement as poor people do crime. I commend my dad for not blaming the poor people. I mean, he did say that the government doesn't take care of them and help them out. But at the same time, why say they're the ones doing the crimes in the first place? Maybe they're more likely to do certain crimes than others. Like stealing from a grocery whereas a rich person might do a bank fraud. I don't know, hypothetically speaking....
So is it possible we can discuss it further? What do you think about that? Is he his statement ignorant? How much truth is in what he said? How much truth is in what I said? I'm ok with you challenging my ideas too...It's just really hard having a debate in my head
   
  (#2 (permalink)) Old
Lizzie Offline
Volunteering Officer
Outside, huh?
**********
 
Lizzie's Avatar
 
Name: Lizzie
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Location: USA

Posts: 4,700
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: poor people and crime - June 21st 2013, 01:13 PM

I think you are missing the biggie here. Crime is not only linked to poverty, but violence as well. Violence is not “fighting the man” it’s hurting innocent people. There are large amount of violent incidents such as gang violence, rape, domestic violence and murder in poverty stricken areas of the country than anywhere else. I think that is what she meant by “scary” and I think that is what your dad is trying to refer to. Statically those who live in wealthier neighborhoods are more likely to commit ‘white collar’ crimes (money laundering, embezzlement, etc). Hence the name white collar.

Gangs are formed in poor areas by people who feel like they have nothing to lose and no one to look out for them. They come from poor neighborhoods where they feel like that cannot be successful in a career, because no one around them is successful. You rarely see gangs in a wealthy neighborhood because those children have goals. With gangs come drugs, with drugs comes addiction and a lack of respect for others and their property. It just spirals out of control.
So it’s not say that poor people commit more crimes, they just live in an area that attracts more violent criminals. It’s a shame really, but I think your dad’s statement is legitimate.

A little off topic, I think the real problem is that we keep creating ghettos (public housing) and we need to stop. Those are almost always a complete failure and create new poor neighborhoods. The projects, just like any other poor neighborhood, attract criminals and then they are back to square one. We need to stop grouping the poor all together.




Interested in becoming a staff member? Feel free to PM me, or apply HERE!
::Teen Help Member Since 2006::
::Staff Member for ten years::
~Blessed Be~
   
  (#3 (permalink)) Old
.:Bibliophile:. Online
PM me anytime!

TeenHelp Veteran
*************
 
.:Bibliophile:.'s Avatar
 
Gender: Just me

Posts: 16,576
Blog Entries: 1722
Join Date: January 18th 2009

Re: poor people and crime - June 21st 2013, 04:10 PM

I agree with Lizzie's statement to a certain extent. I think that statistically speaking crimes are more likely to take place in poorer communities than in wealthier ones. However, that doesn't mean it doesn't take place in wealthy communities as well. Domestic abuse, rape, murder and such happen all across the board. Sometimes I wonder if the statistics are so high is because some of the crimes go unreported in the wealthy areas such as domestic abuse and rape but that is just a thought. I do know that living in poverty does expose people to a lot of different things and can be really tough and sometimes people do things they wouldn't normally do. It's all about survival, really.

I don't think it is proper to make the assumption that the reason we don't see gangs in wealthy neighborhoods is because the kids have goals and respect for others. I honestly don't think this is true. I grew up in a rather wealthy area and there were a number of kids who didn't have goals or respect and today they are into drugs and committing crimes that they are just not getting caught for. I think the reason people join gangs is because it is all they know from what I know about gangs most people grow up with family members and so they join because of that. But, that doesn't mean they lack respect or goals all it means is they have different goals that you or I. I don't agree with this decision though.

I do think that poverty does make it harder for people to come up and be 'successful' because of all the hardships they face. I have family members who have struggled with poverty and dealt with things like this and some of them got involved in things they should not have and others chose a better route.

Lastly, I agree that public housing group the poor together and creates 'ghettos' but without them there are a number of people who wouldn't be able to afford housing for their family. It doesn't seem like a good idea to just stop creating them when there are so many people who rely on them.


|Lead Moderator|Newsletter Officer|
   
  (#4 (permalink)) Old
Catharsis. Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Catharsis.'s Avatar
 
Age: 22
Location: Limerick, Ireland

Posts: 1,797
Blog Entries: 101
Join Date: December 8th 2012

Re: poor people and crime - June 21st 2013, 06:22 PM

Crime in general is more prevalent in deprived areas than in wealthier areas, but I don't think it's really correct to generalise.

I spend a large part of my childhood in an inner-city area. We owned our house, but there were a lot of public housing projects around us (I agree with Lizzie about those by the way). People were involved in gangs, violence was common amongst younger people, and that much I will acknowledge. However, I found that the people I grew up alongside when I lived on the estate to be much more honest and respectful than the people I've come across since we moved to the suburbs (I'll get to that in a while). It has been mentioned that white-collar crime is more likely to occur in wealthier areas, and that much is true. I can guarantee you that a working class family will never rip you off. But I think that anyone who says that people from underprivileged areas aren't as respectful as those from wealthier families are making a swooping generalisation.

I was brought up well by my parents, though we didn't have as much money as others (we weren't poor, but we weren't wealthy either). I was brought up to respect others, to be the one who holds the door open or gives up their seat for an elderly person on the bus. Like I mentioned above, we now live in suburbia. It's not a wealthy area by any means, it's a rather mixed area both economically and ethnically, but the majority of the population lead comfortable, middle-class lifestyles. I'm not going to hold back here, some of the young people in this area are a disgrace. They come from decent backgrounds and were raised to be respectable, young men and women, yet they're out in the streets causing havoc. They have no respect whatsoever for the general population, and they only seem to live for getting into trouble.

Stereotypes exist for a reason. Like I've said, there is trouble in deprived areas, more so than wealthy areas. I can say that from first-hand experience. I would just ask people not to constantly put down people from underclass backgrounds, as I would happily move back to my first neighbourhood, and that's because of the people. Friendly, respectful and accepting for the most part. We could do with more of that in my current area.
  Send a message via Skype™ to Catharsis. 
  (#5 (permalink)) Old
Lizzie Offline
Volunteering Officer
Outside, huh?
**********
 
Lizzie's Avatar
 
Name: Lizzie
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Location: USA

Posts: 4,700
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: poor people and crime - June 21st 2013, 06:51 PM

I said that gangs create drug problems and are the source of lack of respect to others and their property, not the poor!




Interested in becoming a staff member? Feel free to PM me, or apply HERE!
::Teen Help Member Since 2006::
::Staff Member for ten years::
~Blessed Be~
   
  (#6 (permalink)) Old
Catharsis. Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Catharsis.'s Avatar
 
Age: 22
Location: Limerick, Ireland

Posts: 1,797
Blog Entries: 101
Join Date: December 8th 2012

Re: poor people and crime - June 21st 2013, 07:02 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzie View Post
I said that gangs create drug problems and are the source of lack of respect to others and their property, not the poor!
I wasn't calling you out or saying you were wrong, I was just saying what I, myself, thought. I just think that people from underclass backgrounds can be generalised, but it had nothing to do with what anyone else said. You made a good point as well. I mean, I agree with Jenna that it's true that a lot of gangs contain members of the same family, but it's common for people outside the family feuds to get involved too, especially if they see no other way out of their situation other than getting involved in drug gangs.
  Send a message via Skype™ to Catharsis. 
  (#7 (permalink)) Old
BDF Offline
Member
I can't get enough
*********
 
BDF's Avatar
 
Name: BDF
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Location: Europe

Posts: 2,523
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: January 28th 2009

Re: poor people and crime - June 21st 2013, 11:33 PM

Well... obviously there are different types of crime. There may be an individual who already has more than enough money to live comfortably for 10 lifetimes, but will still defraud his bank for $50 billion... leading towards a potential bankruptcy of the bank, and a domino effect on the world markets... causing people to have their houses repossessed, pensions cut, government jobs cut, spending fall, poverty rise, small crimes to rise, extremism to rise, extremist political parties to rise... leading to things such as a world war even. That's more less what happened before the second world war in Germany. The Wall Street Crash provoked an already unstable situation in Germany.

Those sorts of crimes... aren't very frequent. Obviously... you can't accuse someone who has stolen $50 billion for anything else than that. I was just illustrating a chain of events. Stealing $50 billion can have a huge impact.

Stealing only $50... is unlikely to have a huge impact. Small crimes happen more often, and often as a result financial pressures. I said above that a major financial crash can lead to rise in poverty and crime.

But let's not forget that the same evil shits who have the power to, and are capable of stealing $50 billion, also exist amongst the more "ordinary" population.

I think ideally... it's more the type of person that should be challenged, less the crime itself. Of course, that's mostly impractical, although is to a significant extent represented in the law of most developed countries. If someone's stealing $50 to buy food... I can sympathise. If someone's stealing $50 to buy something pointless like new shoes, I sympathise a lot less.

The same people who steal $50 billion.... do it to buy themselves new cruise liners, jets, and even private armies. The scale is vastly different. The principle is the same.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
  (#8 (permalink)) Old
Not_here Offline
Member
I can't get enough
*********
 
Not_here's Avatar
 
Name: nobody
Gender: Other

Posts: 2,538
Blog Entries: 571
Join Date: October 24th 2011

Re: poor people and crime - June 23rd 2013, 05:49 PM

I mostly agree with what you guys are saying. I've know there's more violence in poverty stricken areas. I guess it was an emotional response, when she said "scary" because these people were waiting in their seats, and weren't in any way showing aggression. I feel like there was no indication they were intimidating and by saying "scary" it reinforces generalizations and stereotypes. Having fear creates hate. Isn't she there for the same reason? So why is she making herself so different from another mother and child who seems to be from a poverty stricken neighborhood.
As long as people go around saying everyone in a particular neighborhood is "scary" instead of understanding, they're allowing harmful things to continue.
I agree there's more violence, I just felt like crime isn't exclusive to poverty.
I grew up in a mixed income neighborhood, and so I didn't have it as bad as other parts of NYC. From an outsider I can see how someone will find it scary. I can see how people avoid going to those neighborhoods unless they absolutely have to. But what about the people living inside that neighborhood? Not everyone is a gang member, What about the children there, they suffer more than the children outside of the neighborhood. So being mistreated from outside residents must feel awful evenmore so.
I also agree with not grouping the poor together. That was a good point.
   
  (#9 (permalink)) Old
Always * Offline
Member
I can't get enough
*********
 
Always *'s Avatar
 
Age: 28
Gender: Female
Location: Hogwarts

Posts: 3,186
Blog Entries: 2
Join Date: April 12th 2012

Re: poor people and crime - June 24th 2013, 01:43 AM

Well, here's the problem. People say something like "there is a correlation between crime and poverty" and people misunderstand that to mean that being poor or marginalized by society equates to being a criminal, thus a lot of people have a hard time with that because either A) they feel like people assume their criminals because of their "lot in life" or B) they know disadvantaged people and know they're definitely not criminals.

But you have to think about what society deems appropriate or criminal. For example, prostitution isn't legal, so if you are a young woman who's been kicked out of her home or have a turbulant home life, what ever, and she turns to prostitution to make ends meet, well, then she's breaking the law. But people don't just become prostitutes because they felt like it or because they thought it was a fabulous career choice, typically it's because they're marginalized by factors such as economic status. But the problem is that prostitution being illegal thus criminalizes a woman, who is usually a victim, instead of the creepy john who's further victimizing a marginalized woman (although I think it's illegal for him too, I'm not hugely well versed to know the depth of the law, I just know the shell of it).

Or maybe someone starts selling drugs to make money. The list runs on. But when people talk about this it isn't to accuse a person of being a bad person for being poor or to make assumptions about them. It's not like that at all. It's simply that there are a lot of factors that go into it that make it harder to a disadvantaged person. There's a lot with kids who become homeless, and how they might turn to drugs or what ever. Or even like how people get asumptions made about them based on racially disadvantaged kids. I can probably direct you to a lot of sociological research on the topic if you are interested, it would probably help you understand it. And the articles I am thinking about are quite easy to read. So PM me and I'll find links ok




Feel free to PM me if you ever need to chat or have questions
   
1 user(s) liked this post or found it helpful.
  (#10 (permalink)) Old
Not_here Offline
Member
I can't get enough
*********
 
Not_here's Avatar
 
Name: nobody
Gender: Other

Posts: 2,538
Blog Entries: 571
Join Date: October 24th 2011

Re: poor people and crime - June 27th 2013, 10:58 PM

thank you guys for replying, you all have great points.
Wallflower, I'm gonna PM you for the links, and thank you
   
  (#11 (permalink)) Old
Snufkin Offline
XO
I've been here a while
********
 
Snufkin's Avatar
 
Name: Scott
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Location: Glasgow

Posts: 1,982
Blog Entries: 104
Join Date: January 17th 2009

Re: poor people and crime - June 28th 2013, 07:22 PM

Coming from a poor area, I judge it on how safe I feel walking around the area. I don't feel safe here, but I feel perfectly fine in, say, the west end of Glasgow or in most places in Edinburgh.

Poverty means that people turn to criminal behaviour because they have no hopes or aspirations. It's cyclical, because people are born into it. The school I attended was ranked as the second lowest in the country, and the other school in this town is the second lowest ranked in this county. So, in your teenage years, you're not getting a good experience or education.

Sure, people do break free of it, move away, or manage to find success in a poor area. But that's not the point. Someone in the west end of Glasgow is born into a comfortable area, so they're taught to flourish since childhood. It's the nature of the area. In poor areas, you're surrounded by violence, drugs, high teen pregnancy - it's a sort of a shell community. You're either stuck within it and what comes with it, or you break free and try to not look down or back.




   
  (#12 (permalink)) Old
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
ThisWillDestroyYou's Avatar
 
Name: Michael
Gender: Male
Location: USA

Posts: 1,050
Join Date: July 5th 2011

Re: poor people and crime - June 29th 2013, 04:17 PM

Crime and violence is linked to poverty which is why a firm education is paramount. It's not that they have lack of opportunities, so much as lack of education. Educated people tend to be more civil -- but there are exceptions.

However, what you're bringing up is more of a question on ethics. Not crime.


"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love."
- Carl Sagan
   
  (#13 (permalink)) Old
Antihero
I've been here a while
********
 
Ghost On The Highway's Avatar
 
Name: Ghost
Age: 29
Gender: Duderino
Location: Galaxy 5-0-0

Posts: 1,045
Join Date: January 16th 2010

Re: poor people and crime - July 1st 2013, 03:05 AM

I agree with most of the points here on the link between poverty and crime. However, I also think that much non-violent "crime" perpetrated by the poor simply results from their living situation and discriminatory police practices. For example, a man without a home cannot avoid "loitering," and is more likely to be "publicly intoxicated" than one who imbibes in his home or a bar. Shoplifting for necessities, welfare and medical insurance fraud, etc. are other crimes for which culpability is questionable. Then, of course, comes the whole world of drug crime, which ranges from innocuous to barbarous.



The neon burns a hole in the night, and the Freon burns a hole in the sky.
You can find my kind living right on the fault line, eyes on the seaside, lives on the B-side, kites on the power lines.
   
  (#14 (permalink)) Old
hannahgreenwood Offline
Member
Average Joe
***
 
hannahgreenwood's Avatar
 
Age: 26
Gender: Female

Posts: 185
Blog Entries: 1
Join Date: December 21st 2010

Re: poor people and crime - July 1st 2013, 03:57 AM

There is a correlation between crime and poverty. I know this because of the foster system issues. Often times people who claim they are going to adopt and child and take good care of them really take them in just to screw around with them and get their monthly payment. I know a case of a boy who was taken in by a woman in a downtown part of Washington DC and he displayed a pluthera of new problems upon moving in with her (bed wetting, panic attacks, never talking) and the social worker begged them to check the house. They didn't. A week later that child was murdered by the mother.
As a rule, adoption agencies, foster homes, and orphanages like to give up children to middle class families. White collar crime can be an issue there but crime in general is more prevalent around an impoverished community.
The wealthy are able to get away with crime though. Absolutely. And it's hard because something like rape can happen and never get reported. So we don't know if that happens more often in wealthy or impoverished neighborhoods honestly.
And I hate to say it but there is a correlation between race and crime. African American males are six times more likely to commit a crime than are white males. That is a fact.
   
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
crime, people, poor

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All material copyright 1998-2018, TeenHelp.
Terms | Legal | Privacy | Conduct | Complaints

Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000-2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search engine optimization by vBSEO.
Theme developed in association with vBStyles.