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Religion and Spirituality, Science and Philosophy Use this forum to discuss what you believe in. This is a place where everyone may share their views freely.

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Whats the point? - July 1st 2013, 04:57 AM

I'm a christian, and I'll get this straight. I don't hate Atheist, but I'm getting tired of Atheist that are assholes. On Youtube, Christians or anyone who believes in a deity get hate, a lot of hate. And some people go out of there way to disprove God. I posted a comment on a video on gay rights saying that god doesn't hate gays, and he loves everyone. That was a death sentence right there. Tons of comments flooded my inbox telling me that God is immoral, Fascist, sexist, racist, and they call me close-minded for being Christian. Get the irony here? People go out of there way to disprove God, or any other deity for what purpose? Whats the point? I'm not going to stop being christian just because some asshole called God on the internet a mean name. Just, whats the point in Atheist who go out of there way to disprove God, or any other deity out there?
   
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Re: Whats the point? - July 1st 2013, 05:28 AM

In theory the same could be said of the devout Christians who go around trying to convert people (I am NOT saying that you do this) I'm just making a comparison. People are going to believe what they're going to believe no matter what anyone says. The internet is a "good" place for people to say whatever they want because no one knows who they are, I know it's annoying, but try to ignore it. If they want to waste their time and energy then that's on them.


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Re: Whats the point? - July 1st 2013, 06:25 AM

I also hate that...ugh. But here, if atheists state that they don't believe in (the obviously true) God, then all if a sudden they're like top dog. Say you're Christian, people cuss you out? How's that right??
Another thing I hate is if some gay person comes out of the closet, he's a hero and everyone supports him. But what about us Christians? We say we're Christian, we get hate mail and cricket chirps. -.-


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Re: Whats the point? - July 1st 2013, 04:53 PM

Just don't sink to their level. Show them God's love even when they're frothing at the mouth in hatred. They'll be slightly puzzled that they cannot break you into getting angry and cussing them out. Stay strong.
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Re: Whats the point? - July 2nd 2013, 12:10 AM

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Originally Posted by Jess~ View Post
I also hate that...ugh. But here, if atheists state that they don't believe in (the obviously true) God, then all if a sudden they're like top dog. Say you're Christian, people cuss you out? How's that right??
Another thing I hate is if some gay person comes out of the closet, he's a hero and everyone supports him. But what about us Christians? We say we're Christian, we get hate mail and cricket chirps. -.-
See though, I think comments like "(the obviously true) God" are apart of the problem. Consider this; you believe in the (obviously false) God, if someone believes in God, then they think they're the top dog.

I really just reversed what you'd said in your post, and it's actually pretty mean, right? I think that when we're saying something, we don't usually mean it as hurtful, but when someone else says it, we might perceive it that way.

Basically, before we, as people say anything, we should consider if we'd be okay having the same thing, or the inverse of it, said to us.

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Re: Whats the point? - July 2nd 2013, 12:31 AM

I'm someone who neither believes nor disbelieves. I don't really know what that's called but I don't think it matters at the moment. I like to think of myself as an open-minded person on the subject of religion.

There will always be two opposing forces with no matter what there is in life just as there is with religion. Believers and non-believers.

The way I see it is this, there are people who name themselves Christians and go out of their way to bash or force their own personal views on other people are the ones that create hate from non-believes. In opposition to this, non-believers bash Chritianity and force their own views and opinions on the matter of religion. Two opposing forces collide and anger traps in between.

I have always respected the views and religious beliefs of others and have no reason to hate those who are religious because Christianity is, in itself, a belief just like Atheism. However, I can feel threatened and feel backed into a corner when someone forces their views on me and tries to get me to see things their way instead of respecting my views. This is where the argument is for a lot of Atheists. It's the matter of feeling threatened.

I know a lot of people around me who are good and loyal Christians. Some of them are good friends. Not once have they ever tried to force their views upon me like they haven't for others. It's because they respect my views and know that I respect theirs.

It's the Christians that force their views and opinions on others that cause the hate from non-believers. Good, respectful Christians who are respectful unfortunately get the abuse in the neck because once a person feels threatened, they attack any and all on-sight no matter how respectful they are.

People spout abuse and hate because they feel or have felt threatened. Some people have grown into an environment like this and other people have grown into it through a bad experience. The best thing to do although it's hard, is to try and ignore it. Turn the other cheek and rise above it. You're the better person for not reacting and doing what you believe is right, that is what matters the most.
   
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Re: Whats the point? - July 2nd 2013, 01:06 AM

Well its good I forgive and forget easily. I know there are some jerk Christian's out there like there are jerk Atheist's. I wouldn't really say its the Christians fault because the majority of Christians out there are good people. Its that vocal minority that gives us a bad name. Like how two priest's molest teenage girls and now every one on the internet thinks every priest out there molest teenage girls. I don't really have many friends that are Atheist, but I like to think that the majority of Atheist are good people.
   
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Re: Whats the point? - July 2nd 2013, 01:44 PM

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Originally Posted by Mason C. View Post
. Its that vocal minority that gives us a bad name.
I think you answered your own question there. Not all atheists are rude, just like not all Christians are rude. But, the only ones you are going to hear are the rude ones because that is who speaks up. It creates this illusion that a majority of any group is offensive. Just remember that just because someone believes in a different God, or no God at all, does not make them a bad person. All you can do is be a good person and show the world kindness. (And maybe refrain from YouTube comments… because those are the worst.)




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Re: Whats the point? - July 2nd 2013, 05:50 PM

Because they're pricks. They're probably a bunch of uneducated childish shits who spend 90% of their time watching youtube flicks or playing games.

Are you going to pay attention to watch dumb shit these people have to say? On any topic? Especially given how ignorant and offensive they are??

It's up to you. I wouldn't.


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Whats the point? - July 2nd 2013, 10:09 PM

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Originally Posted by Mason C. View Post
I'm a christian, and I'll get this straight. I don't hate Atheist, but I'm getting tired of Atheist that are assholes. On Youtube, Christians or anyone who believes in a deity get hate, a lot of hate. And some people go out of there way to disprove God. I posted a comment on a video on gay rights saying that god doesn't hate gays, and he loves everyone. That was a death sentence right there. Tons of comments flooded my inbox telling me that God is immoral, Fascist, sexist, racist, and they call me close-minded for being Christian. Get the irony here? People go out of there way to disprove God, or any other deity for what purpose? Whats the point? I'm not going to stop being christian just because some asshole called God on the internet a mean name. Just, whats the point in Atheist who go out of there way to disprove God, or any other deity out there?
Because the idea of god has caused racism, sexism, slavery, murders, meaningless wars, and removes a curious mind. God doesn't love everyone, even Romans it says that god loved Jacob, but hated Esau. Are you sure you're a Christian? I wouldn't send anyone to hell, even people I hate. Not even people who have committed genocide. But, god loves all these people and sends them there anyway? I think you have a skewed version of love, my friend.

The main point, god isn't necessary for the existence of the Universe. His existence gets less and less probable. Belief in his existence has caused countless crimes, atrocities, murders, etc. Why do we want something like that around? Why do we want someone telling children that they are going to hell because they choose to be rational people and follow evidence rather than faith?

I'd honestly go on, if you need me too. But, not being rude, I find your question ridiculous. It's quite apparent why people don't want religion in society anymore.


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Re: Whats the point? - July 2nd 2013, 11:21 PM

I think what has just happened is a perfect example of what happens. (So let's please try not to be too rude to each other, yeah?)

It is a fact that religion has caused racism, sexism, etc. There is no reasonable way to deny or disprove it.
It is not a fact that 400% more wars are caused by corruption than religion, and many would argue that religion causes greed and corruption more than most other things.

However, when atheists say that it tends to get misinterpreted as "all religion[/religious people] causes these things" which is not necessarily true.

I don't believe in God. I do believe that people should have the right to believe what they wish, and should do so without others unreservedly attacking those beliefs. I also believe that beliefs should not be impressed upon others as "fact," "truth" or "correct" etc. They aren't. They're beliefs.

So, when religion causes terrorism or homophobia - I condemn it. But otherwise, as much as I disagree with many of the fundamental points of many religions (particularly, I'm afraid, Christianity) I respect the right other human beings to believe what they wish and be true to those beliefs within reason: ie. not harming others.

It is also a fact that the Bible advocates many things which most people would not consider "loving".

Whatever.

So long as you're decent and respectful to other people, I don't really mind what beliefs you hold. I don't agree - I see many contradictory and horrific parts of religion - but I don't mind granted that you're respectful.


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Re: Whats the point? - July 3rd 2013, 01:02 AM

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I don't care what people think
With respect for what you're actually saying, this is close-minded.
Perhaps people aren't called you close-minded for your beliefs, but that attitude towards theirs?

That sounds extraordinarily rude, so I apologise, but it is a fair point. I didn't know how else to phrase it.


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Re: Whats the point? - July 3rd 2013, 05:27 AM

[quote=Mason C.;1043648]
Quote:
[Because the idea of god has caused racism, sexism, slavery, murders, meaningless wars, and removes a curious mind. God doesn't love everyone, even Romans it says that god loved Jacob, but hated Esau. Are you sure you're a Christian? I wouldn't send anyone to hell, even people I hate. Not even people who have committed genocide. But, god loves all these people and sends them there anyway? I think you have a skewed version of love, my friend.

The main point, god isn't necessary for the existence of the Universe. His existence gets less and less probable. Belief in his existence has caused countless crimes, atrocities, murders, etc. Why do we want something like that around? Why do we want someone telling children that they are going to hell because they choose to be rational people and follow evidence rather than faith?

I'd honestly go on, if you need me too. But, not being rude, I find your question ridiculous. It's quite apparent why people don't want religion in society anymore.

/QUOTE]

Man you've gotten it all wrong. Just all of it. Have you ignore my "vocal minority rant" There's 4x as many wars that have started by greed and corruption than by religion. Only .075% of Islamic's are terrorist, and yet you say that religion encourages people to do bad things? If anything religion is good. It adds culture ,and makes the world a lot less boring. You can say all you want about God's love, because I know its not skewed by the stretch of any imagination. My version of love is definitely not skewed.
It doesn't matter whether greed or corruption cause wars. The point remains the same, religion has caused pointless atrocities over faith. Look at the early church, look at the reformation, look at the inquisition, etc. Your argument of greed and corruption are irrelevant. Greed and corruption are rampant among religion as well without. You don't need religion to teach you morality. Humans are capable of living ethically without it.

Your sources are also incorrect. About 20% of Islam is radical. Regardless, I wasn't speaking of Islam. Just study the history of Christianity. Heck, open your bible. Your god sends people to burn for eternity for believing differently. Why should we teach people not to think, but just have faith? Whenever religion has gone head-to-head with science, science has always won. If evidence shows Christianity and religions to be false, it should be rejected. Not held onto for fear or culture. Sure, keep the good parts. Love your neighbors, your enemies. Ethics are important. But there's no need to accept a 2000 year old (edit) fairytale that's has no evidence of even the existence of its main character. We should be advancing onto society. Not holding onto false beliefs simply because we want to.

Why don't you believe in Zeus, Thor, the great juju up the mountin? There's no need.


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Re: Whats the point? - July 3rd 2013, 02:49 PM

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This is an attitude that is towards my belief, not theirs. The real close-minded people are the ones who judge based on what religion a person believes. If I did care what people think. I would be just as bad as they are. I don't hate Atheist, nor the Atheism belief.
Yet, you blankly denied everything that Of Mike and Men said despite the evidence for those points and the logic behind it?
My point is not necessarily just about religion, your attitude there was very clearly close-minded.

I agree that it's close-minded to prejudge based upon religion, but that's pretty irrelevant to what I said. Caring what people think is a good thing, though. It's how we all become better people (in the absence of a God, who I don't believe in)


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Re: Whats the point? - July 3rd 2013, 07:25 PM

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I've toke in what Mike and Men answered, and he's basically saying that religion is bad. That's why the minority of Atheist go out of there way to disprove it. If you look at the glass half empty, it is a bad thing. Bad people are everywhere, and they do bad things. No matter what religion they believe in. Religion isn't mostly bad. It's mostly good. What Micheal said about how society would be better without faith and religion, is wrong.
Actually, he criticised the atrocities committed as a direct result of religion.

I would agree with your statement that religion can add colour and individuality up to a point.
Humans made religion, so humans made that colour. I know they can recreate such "colour" without needing a deity.

However, I very much advocate free thinking and the right to believe what you will, so I don't feel that religion should be "removed from society". It seems harsh and fascist. I don't feel that it should have a say in State affairs as it currently does, but I see no reason to condemn it as far as removing it altogether.
So long as a religious belief doesn't hurt others, I don't mind it.

In saying that, some beliefs do currently cause pointless harm, and might also disagree that religion has any exclusive benefits to society.


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Re: Whats the point? - July 8th 2013, 04:41 AM

My God, I just hate this all. I hate how utterly stupid the 'proof' against religion is and how atheists deny deny deny everything Christians say. Just because they can't get it through their heads? Sin is in the world, not because of God, but because of Satan. Religion causes wars? Well in a way, so does the opposite of religion as well, atheists. I hate how close minded every single person here is, including myself. Can't people just believe what they want and not shove it down other people's throats?! "OH YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE SCIENCE MAKES WATER, SCIENCE MAKES ELECTRICITY, BLAH DEE BLAH DEE BLAH."
I can't wait for the end of the world, when the (still, obviously true) God comes. I will laugh at the atheists, who have already in turn laughed at me for my religion.

I just hate it all.


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Re: Whats the point? - July 8th 2013, 05:24 AM

How do you know the people sending the messages are Atheists and not bored people trying to mess with you?

Also, was the comment appropriate for the video? Meaning did you just throw a comment about god loving gays out there or did it claim god did not love gays?
Quote:
People go out of there way to disprove God, or any other deity for what purpose? Whats the point? I'm not going to stop being christian just because some asshole called God on the internet a mean name. Just, whats the point in Atheist who go out of there way to disprove God, or any other deity out there?
Because there are some people who will listen. Just like the Christians managed to convert some, they hope to convert some people. Also, I love how you jump to "asshole" because they are trying to disprove god?

Quote:
My God, I just hate this all. I hate how utterly stupid the 'proof' against religion is and how atheists deny deny deny everything Christians say. Just because they can't get it through their heads? Sin is in the world, not because of God, but because of Satan. Religion causes wars? Well in a way, so does the opposite of religion as well, atheists. I hate how close minded every single person here is, including myself. Can't people just believe what they want and not shove it down other people's throats?! "OH YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE SCIENCE MAKES WATER, SCIENCE MAKES ELECTRICITY, BLAH DEE BLAH DEE BLAH."
I can't wait for the end of the world, when the (still, obviously true) God comes. I will laugh at the atheists, who have already in turn laughed at me for my religion.

I just hate it all.
I can't tell if you are trying to be sarcastic or serious.

What war has atheism caused? I am very curious on your train of thought here if you are serious. I don't think I've ever heard an atheist go running around bombing or shooting up other people because they believe in a god. However, we've had Muslims blow things up and Christians carry guns into an Islamic community center as two examples of religion causing fighting.

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Re: Whats the point? - July 8th 2013, 05:42 AM

Okay, I'm an atheist. I'm not afraid to say so, because I have my own reasons for being one. Not all atheists are assholes like some of you are trying to make them out to be. There are plenty of devout Christians who are just as childish as some atheists. There are Christians who seem bent on shoving their beliefs down other people's throats like some atheists do. What I'm trying to say is that atheists aren't wrong. But neither are Christians. We're only really at fault when we go around criticising people's different beliefs because they're not exactly what you believe or what you want them to believe in.
   
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Re: Whats the point? - July 8th 2013, 05:49 AM

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My God, I just hate this all. I hate how utterly stupid the 'proof' against religion is and how atheists deny deny deny everything Christians say. Just because they can't get it through their heads? Sin is in the world, not because of God, but because of Satan.
I can't wait for the end of the world, when the (still, obviously true) God comes. I will laugh at the atheists, who have already in turn laughed at me for my religion.
Can't imagine why atheists ridicule you, with that attitude -_-
   
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Re: Whats the point? - July 8th 2013, 08:22 AM

There are rude people of all religions and lack of religions. Ignore them. Believe what you want. On a Youtube comment, you shouldn't be afraid of showing your opinion and having your inbox be flooded with hate. But if you make a thread here, people do often want to debate, so don't be surprised if not everybody agrees.


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Re: Whats the point? - July 9th 2013, 05:20 AM

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My God, I just hate this all. I hate how utterly stupid the 'proof' against religion is and how atheists deny deny deny everything Christians say. Just because they can't get it through their heads? Sin is in the world, not because of God, but because of Satan. Religion causes wars? Well in a way, so does the opposite of religion as well, atheists. I hate how close minded every single person here is, including myself. Can't people just believe what they want and not shove it down other people's throats?! "OH YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE SCIENCE MAKES WATER, SCIENCE MAKES ELECTRICITY, BLAH DEE BLAH DEE BLAH."
I can't wait for the end of the world, when the (still, obviously true) God comes. I will laugh at the atheists, who have already in turn laughed at me for my religion.

I just hate it all.
Why do you deny the Holy Prophet Mohammed who was sent by Allah? Why must you deny that the Quran is the true word of God and that Mohammed was his messenger? What you going to do when the Mahdi and Isa come back?

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Re: Whats the point? - July 9th 2013, 01:32 PM

I'm atheist. But sometimes I pretend to be a Christian, go into some forum, and spout a bunch of stuff about God, Jesus and the Bible, quote some verses, and watch how furious people get, then laugh at them, and say "God loves you, xxx" at the end.

You should try it too. It might help you laugh it off.

I do it without insulting anyone, without preaching any hate, or anything like it. But still, people's responses are frequently extraordinarily hostile. They're idiots. They think they're trolling me, lol. Quite the opposite. Quite.


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Re: Whats the point? - July 9th 2013, 03:29 PM

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Originally Posted by Mason C. View Post
I'm a christian, and I'll get this straight. I don't hate Atheist, but I'm getting tired of Atheist that are assholes. On Youtube, Christians or anyone who believes in a deity get hate, a lot of hate. And some people go out of there way to disprove God. I posted a comment on a video on gay rights saying that god doesn't hate gays, and he loves everyone. That was a death sentence right there. Tons of comments flooded my inbox telling me that God is immoral, Fascist, sexist, racist, and they call me close-minded for being Christian. Get the irony here? People go out of there way to disprove God, or any other deity for what purpose? Whats the point? I'm not going to stop being christian just because some asshole called God on the internet a mean name. Just, whats the point in Atheist who go out of there way to disprove God, or any other deity out there?
It's not only for believing in Christianity. Sometimes it's for believing in completely unrelated things, too.

I see exactly what you do. I wish there was a way to prove to them how immature they are, but they won't even listen. It's a terrible thing, when science and reason has been perverted by the unintelligent. Unfortunately, there's nothing that can help it.

I've learned to ignore them. I suggest you do the same.


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Re: Whats the point? - July 10th 2013, 07:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess~ View Post
My God, I just hate this all. I hate how utterly stupid the 'proof' against religion is and how atheists deny deny deny everything Christians say. Just because they can't get it through their heads? Sin is in the world, not because of God, but because of Satan. Religion causes wars? Well in a way, so does the opposite of religion as well, atheists. I hate how close minded every single person here is, including myself. Can't people just believe what they want and not shove it down other people's throats?! "OH YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE SCIENCE MAKES WATER, SCIENCE MAKES ELECTRICITY, BLAH DEE BLAH DEE BLAH."
I can't wait for the end of the world, when the (still, obviously true) God comes. I will laugh at the atheists, who have already in turn laughed at me for my religion.

I just hate it all.
I'm sorry, where have any Atheists here claimed to have proof the non-existence of a Deity.
But, tell me: what's the probability that a deity does exist AND the probability that of thousands created humankind yours just happens to be the right one? Tell us how arrogant and narrow-minded we are again?

Your argument also becomes somewhat invalid in that atheists believe in no concept of any God or Satan.
In any case, God is meant to be omnipotent. Why doesn't he stop the Devil -which he supposedly created, despite his omniscience by definition giving him insight to what would happen, meaning God still intends suffering, not very omnibenevolent, despite that also being a supposed characteristic?

Also, if you can find a violent conflict caused by atheism, I'd be impressed.

I agree that everyone should be able to believe they wish.
And maybe atheists might be less eager to ridicule theists if they kept their views to themselves and stopped negatively impacting lives.
Like, the racism, homophobia, sexism, assault, death, murder and unfair use of taxpayer money that can be attributed to religious organisations.

There is a wonderful atheist saying on ridicule, but PC might see it as going too far. Just remember - atheists live their LIVES rather than doing nothing exciting or self-fulfilling with them on the off-chance of a Deity. By the way, the concept of Heaven is badly flawed anyway. Put simply, how do you measure "good" without the existence of "bad".

I apologise in advance to all the people who I'm sure will be upset by cold logic, but I'm putting ideas forward as I see them.


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Re: Whats the point? - July 13th 2013, 12:01 AM

Look, i'm not going to bother reading everything word for word, it'll take to long. I get the jist of what's going on. But I honestly get a little fed up with Christians freaking out every time an atheist criticizes their beliefs and refuses to consider why someone would choose to not believe in God (or any other god by any other name). Some people need proof, they prefer what they can see, hear and touch, other people are more willing to accept the idea of the supernatural. If Christians didn't act like I (and other atheists) were assholes who hate religion and have no morals or values by default then I'd say, fine, go ahead and think what you want (choose what you want from those before mentioned criticisms of atheists).

My point is that unfair and harsh judgements go on both sides. I've had people criticize me all the time for my atheist beliefs, they've demanded to know how I could possibly not believe in a God who's made their lives "so much better", but the fact of the matter is that I have a great life WITHOUT believing in a God, my life is freaking fantastic without a God, nothing is missing in my life. And I have people who automatically assume that all moras and values come from religion and that the rest of us are without it which is ridiculous when I know some atheists who have better values and moral concious then some of those superior minded religious people (not saying you in particular are superior, it's just SOME people think that and THOSE are the ones who get to me). And I don't think you can run around acting like atheists are the only ones who've ever been in the wrong here, Christians hate on people of other faiths, Muslims do it, Hindus do it, I wouldn't be surprised of Buddhists too.

People do it ALL the time and I find it incredibly insulting that the atheists always get the blame as "oh, they attack other people's religion all the time". That's not true AT ALL. Yes, there are many, many ignorant people out there who say crap about Christianity (and that's not just atheists), but it's not really our fault that there is a vocal minority out there doing that to you. I am sorry you have had these negative experiences, but to be fair, I think EVERYONE lacks education, to many people assume their right and take no time to consider education themselves about other peoples beliefs and being open minded to it instead of attacking them. I, the atheist, value hearing about other peoples religions, I make a point of understanding them and, while, i am quite happy to tell you I don't believe and why (and would rather not hear the condescending lecture about "how can I possible not "get" Christianity or God or what ever the heck else") I am NOT going to attack someone else's religion. No one should have to apologize for their beliefs but that's a little hard to do when people are constantly blaming an entire religion for a few extreme views. Come on, how would YOU like it if I started hating on Christians because "obviously" you all are like those at the Westboro Baptist Church. It doesn't work like that. Again, I am sorry you've had negative responses when you expressed your beliefs, but all you can do is kindly correct those people and get on with life.




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Re: Whats the point? - July 13th 2013, 12:14 PM

Well... reading some more posts I feel like throwing in why I don't believe in God despite a Christian upbringing up to the age of about 10. I've done it before in these forums, but whatever.

The concept is really simple (or not). To put it shortly, it's in my character. I question things, and always have. It's gotten me into trouble in many other areas of life too. I have trouble in believing something that I don't see enough credible, and logical proof for. Saying things such as "objects fall to the ground because God designed it that way" always made me laugh (no offence). I don't believe in things, just because other people tell me to believe in them... and that's the feeling I had with religion. It was teachers and certain relatives when I was younger who were basically just telling me to believe in God.

And it didn't fly with me. I have this defiant character, yes. Luckily, neither of my parents are religious either. The exposure to a religious upbringing was mostly because of the culture, other relatives, school and some friends, and even the media where I lived then. The media is usually more atheist than religious, but that wasn't really the case there.

If my parents were in on it too... it would have been with no doubt, a lot more stressful. There were enough other problems, because of the same reasons... my character, how I question things, and how defiant I can be towards anything that can't be reasonably justified. I haven't changed much. I have worked on my self-control up to today... but really what has changed most of all, is that since I turned 18, people rub their shit in my face a lot less.

But it still happens. It can anger me. A lot. And that's why I work on my self-control. My most effective response, is to make a joke of it, or even better, ignore it. But if ignoring it fails... I try to make a joke of it. And laugh my arse off, even if it isn't funny.
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Re: Whats the point? - July 13th 2013, 09:58 PM

Just as there are some rude and insensitive atheists, I've met plenty of Christians who are just as rude and insensitive to the beliefs of others. Every group will always have those who are outspoken in a bad way. Unfortunately, people see the people with insensitive, outspoken opposing views as the poster children for everyone in the rest of that group.

This is why I live my life with the philosophy I have. You're a christian? Great. You're a Muslim? Great. Buddhist? Wiccan? Mormon? Atheist? All great. I don't really care. But let me live my life the way I see fit, and be respectful of the views of others, even if they disagree with you. I truly believe people would get along much better if they all just adhered to "treat others the way you want to be treated." I'm pretty sure no one likes to be treated with hostility, contempt, and disrespect, so how about we don't treat other people that way?


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Re: Whats the point? - July 14th 2013, 07:22 AM

To be fair, I don't mind religion as a whole. What I mind is fanatics telling teachers that they cannot teach evolution and have to teach alternatives that have no weighted evidence. I mind ANYTHING that causes atrocities, whether it be a religious indoctrination, a philosophical view, or manipulating the masses.

However, I think when there is substantial evidence to disprove the existence of something, that something should be dismissed without question and clingers with faith. Scientific theories are replaced based on evidence, the same should be with religion and all matters so we can progress society. Not hold to idealistic ideas with no reason beyond faith. Progress comes through change, through falsifiable claims that can be disproved. In fact, the only reason society is where it is today is because of our failures. Because of our rejecting things that have been disproved. Religion should not be an exception to the rule. We can teach the good parts of religion WITHOUT religion.

We have to evolve and put our trust in humankind, we have to teach morals, we have to teach love, and progression through the sciences to better our understanding of the universe and to help others, cure diseases, and make life sustainable on Earth and various planets in the future. We have to help those with mental diseases, and help solve those who have hatred or are so deluded that they become murders. We don't just sit and pray things get better. No. We research. We study. We go by trial and error. And we adapt to make that progress. We drop what didn't work, and hold to what does work.

We don't need to be subjecting children to thinking they will be tortured ceaselessly for choosing to follow evidence over faith. We don't need people being indoctrinated to hate other people simply because they believe different and murdering each other over differences (as paradoxical as that may sound). We need to teach children to make a change. Not sit back idle and hope god fixes things (which if there is a god, why does anything need fixing in the first place, and why should we trust him to fix it?).

If you want to believe in a god, go ahead. But you don't need to make it overt and slam people trying to progress the human species simply because they don't want to go back to the dark ages. We should follow evidence and discover truth. We should discard the rest. It's the only way we can progress. Abandoning those ancient ideas that have no evidence is part of that progress. I don't hate religious people. I just hate religion's ball and chain to society.


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Re: Whats the point? - July 14th 2013, 09:20 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess~ View Post
My God, I just hate this all. I hate how utterly stupid the 'proof' against religion is and how atheists deny deny deny everything Christians say. Just because they can't get it through their heads? Sin is in the world, not because of God, but because of Satan. Religion causes wars? Well in a way, so does the opposite of religion as well, atheists. I hate how close minded every single person here is, including myself. Can't people just believe what they want and not shove it down other people's throats?! "OH YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE SCIENCE MAKES WATER, SCIENCE MAKES ELECTRICITY, BLAH DEE BLAH DEE BLAH."
I can't wait for the end of the world, when the (still, obviously true) God comes. I will laugh at the atheists, who have already in turn laughed at me for my religion.

I just hate it all.
I understand your frustration, but I don't think God would want you to hate. The (obviously true) God thought me to forgive the atheist that attacked me and my views. He can teach you too. Don't hate because hate leads to anger, and being angry is just not fun.
   
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Re: Whats the point? - July 14th 2013, 11:04 PM

You keep saying "the (obviously true) God", but yet you take no consideration for how WE feel, you're not respecting our beliefs by adding the (obviously true) part, its condescending, as if we're some how stupid or ignorant not to have figured out this "obvious truth" which you understand so well. You're allowed to throw in little condescending remarks like that... But as soon as an atheist criticizes you all hell breaks loose... Do you see the problem here? If you can't respect another persons right to NOT believe in God then you can't expect anyone to respect your right TO believe in God... The person who you just quoted wasn't even saying anything resembling that of an atheist yet you keep doing that... And if you really not trying to be nearly as condesending as that remark which I just pointed out is coming across as then I think you should think about how you word things on the internet and maybe you'll get to the root of why so many atheists come at you about their attitudes towards Christianity, because, frankly, I for one have a deep founded respect and interest for other peoples beliefs and that's why i don't have a problem with people religiously speaking cause I don't shove my views down their throats, no one likes that, you can't preach love and respect if your not following through with your claims, it makes you seem hypocritical, lead by example I say, if you want others to respect your religion why not start by respecting theirs




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Re: Whats the point? - July 14th 2013, 11:27 PM

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Originally Posted by ~Wallflower~ View Post
You keep saying "the (obviously true) God", but yet you take no consideration for how WE feel, you're not respecting our beliefs by adding the (obviously true) part, its condescending, as if we're some how stupid or ignorant not to have figured out this "obvious truth" which you understand so well. You're allowed to throw in little condescending remarks like that... But as soon as an atheist criticizes you all hell breaks loose... Do you see the problem here? If you can't respect another persons right to NOT believe in God then you can't expect anyone to respect your right TO believe in God... The person who you just quoted wasn't even saying anything resembling that of an atheist yet you keep doing that... And if you really not trying to be nearly as condesending as that remark which I just pointed out is coming across as then I think you should think about how you word things on the internet and maybe you'll get to the root of why so many atheists come at you about their attitudes towards Christianity, because, frankly, I for one have a deep founded respect and interest for other peoples beliefs and that's why i don't have a problem with people religiously speaking cause I don't shove my views down their throats, no one likes that, you can't preach love and respect if your not following through with your claims, it makes you seem hypocritical, lead by example I say, if you want others to respect your religion why not start by respecting theirs
Speaking of this... Who is this obviously true god? Which god are you callin the obviously true god?


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Re: Whats the point? - July 15th 2013, 02:08 PM

My take on this is it's one of either 2 possibilities: 1) they're just trolling, as BDF suggested (which knowing YouTube and other such sites should always be considered as a genuine possibility) or 2) they're that insecure in terms of their own beliefs (or lack thereof) that they feel the need to justify themselves by acting in this manner, or try to convince others to adopt their point of view in order to verify it. That perhaps sounds like a bold suggestion, but it does seem to happen a lot. I'm a Catholic, for example, and have been for some time now (barring the odd moment of agnosticism and full-blown atheism in my teenage years). I have my struggles with some aspects of my beliefs (mainly because like everyone I fall off the wagon now and then and don't quite come up to scratch), but having tested my beliefs against the evidence and considering the world and Universe as a whole (yes, I am interested in the sciences as well, albeit as a respectful amateur) I'm comfortable with what I believe and why I believe it. As such, I don't tend to discuss it unless (a) I'm at a religious event or (b) someone else brings up religion as a topic of conversation. I'm more than happy to discuss it and debate ideas (as people on here will probably attest ), but otherwise I see no point or purpose in standing on the parapet and hurling tirades at people who don't share my point of view. It just seems totally counterproductive to me.

Honestly, life would be a lot easier if we could all just let bygones be bygones and stop feeling the need to prove ourselves to be right or win the argument all the time. The very fact that there are so many disparate opinions out there in the realms of religion, science and philosophy as to how we got here and what the purpose of life (if there is one) is should be evidence enough that the odds of any one of us stumbling across an empirically, unequivocably "right" answer are very long indeed. By all means we should challenge injustice, corruption and hypocrisy wherever it arises, and religion should be no exception to that. But quite frankly if we could harness the hot air which gets generated from a lot of Internet debates we could run a fleet of airships for the rest of the 21st century...

Anyway, that's my two cents.


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Re: Whats the point? - July 15th 2013, 07:46 PM

Quote:
You keep saying "the (obviously true) God", but yet you take no consideration for how WE feel, you're not respecting our beliefs by adding the (obviously true) part, its condescending, as if we're some how stupid or ignorant not to have figured out this "obvious truth" which you understand so well. You're allowed to throw in little condescending remarks like that... But as soon as an atheist criticizes you all hell breaks loose... Do you see the problem here? If you can't respect another persons right to NOT believe in God then you can't expect anyone to respect your right TO believe in God... The person who you just quoted wasn't even saying anything resembling that of an atheist yet you keep doing that... And if you really not trying to be nearly as condesending as that remark which I just pointed out is coming across as then I think you should think about how you word things on the internet and maybe you'll get to the root of why so many atheists come at you about their attitudes towards Christianity, because, frankly, I for one have a deep founded respect and interest for other peoples beliefs and that's why i don't have a problem with people religiously speaking cause I don't shove my views down their throats, no one likes that, you can't preach love and respect if your not following through with your claims, it makes you seem hypocritical, lead by example I say, if you want others to respect your religion why not start by respecting theirs
I'm sorry if that part offended you, I will try to think about how people feel about my comments next time. Even though I really can't make everyone happy now can I?
   
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Re: Whats the point? - July 15th 2013, 08:31 PM

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I'm sorry if that part offended you, I will try to think about how people feel about my comments next time. Even though I really can't make everyone happy now can I?
Why not?

I'm pretty sure the following would placate atheists, whilst fulfilling the extent of what you can reasonably have the right to believe:
Quote:
I respect the views of atheists, and their right to have such views - and, as Christians also may do towards Atheism - argue other religious viewpoints when supported by what they see as truth. I personally believe in Christianity and wish to exercise my right to do so.
Obviously, Atheists would then exercise said right, but that seems pretty reasonable.


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Re: Whats the point? - July 15th 2013, 08:34 PM

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I'm sorry if that part offended you, I will try to think about how people feel about my comments next time. Even though I really can't make everyone happy now can I?
If other people's happiness doesn't matter, why should yours? I mean, if you can't make everyone happy with you comments, how can you expect anyone else to do the same for you?

This is exactly my point. If I made an effort to say god is (obviously false) every time I typed the word "god", it would offend your for obvious reasons. Before typing or saying anything, consider if you'd be comfortable with the same thing, or the inverse said to you.

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Re: Whats the point? - July 16th 2013, 01:09 AM

Quote:
If other people's happiness doesn't matter, why should yours? I mean, if you can't make everyone happy with you comments, how can you expect anyone else to do the same for you?

This is exactly my point. If I made an effort to say god is (obviously false) every time I typed the word "god", it would offend your for obvious reasons. Before typing or saying anything, consider if you'd be comfortable with the same thing, or the inverse said to you.

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Everyone's happiness does matter. I never said I didn't care about other people's happiness. I just meant by posting a comment, I either make some people happy, or most people happy. It's impossible to make everyone happy. Though it doesn't hurt to try. Maybe I'm just taking your comment out of context.
   
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Red face Re: Whats the point? - July 16th 2013, 12:45 PM

People just love starting up a good debate on the Internet! It's a safe place for them to voice there opinions, just sometimes i think they go a little over the top and forget that there words can hurt....

I'm Christian, in a non Christian home/ Family... and the number of comments i Get from them about it, well it can be tough. But I just have to respect them and their Beliefs. I guess its the same as the Internet, You can voice your opinion, and if people start hating on you, just Respect their views, and show them love, if they are plain nasty just close the tab on your screen. You dont have to read it.

Some people just love a good argument, don't take it personally



KEEP YOUR CHIN UP!
NO MATTER WHAT THEY SAY
YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL!
<3<3<3<3
   
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