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Religion and Spirituality, Science and Philosophy Use this forum to discuss what you believe in. This is a place where everyone may share their views freely.

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Kraziee65 Offline
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Being Open-minded is a lie. - September 3rd 2013, 01:16 AM

If you're a christian, you've probably heard the word's "You're closed-minded", mostly from people who pride themselves of being "open" minded. The idea around being open-minded is the idea that your mind is free of all "false" belief's and superstitions. The irony behind it all though, is that if one person dare's to believe in a higher power, or anything that may seem religious at all. The "open"- minded people automatically declares that one person "closed-minded". Which makes me believe, that being "open-minded" is a lie told to one's self. Humans lie to themselves all the time, and being "open-minded" is just one of those lies. That's just my opinion. I have nothing against people who believe themselves to be open minded, but really, are religious people closed-minded. Or is being open-minded just a lie? I believe, that being "open-minded" is a lie.
   
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Re: Being Open-minded is a lie. - September 3rd 2013, 01:32 AM

The idea of being open-minded isn't about being free from false beliefs at all. It's how accepting you are of new ideas and theories.

Quote:
open-minded

— adj
having a mind receptive to new ideas, arguments, etc; unprejudiced
So it's not even just religious people who could be accused of not being open minded and there are certainly some religious people who are open minded as well.

I can see how it could be applied to religion because some religious people (key word being some) are so wrapped up in their beliefs that they won't look at evidence which says they may not be a God. Some of them still believe the earth is only a couple of thousand years old despite the growing evidence (carbon dating etc.) that's wrong.

Science hasn't completely disproved that there's a God so neither side can claim they're right and even though I do consider myself an atheist if I was shown undeniable proof that God existed then I think I would be open minded enough to change my belief. Can you honestly say some religious people would do the same? I mean Science has provided a growing evidence that God may not be real but some religious people refuse to even read this evidence before just saying it's lies and not real. That, to me, isn't open-mindness and I think that's where people get the idea that religious people aren't open-minded.


   
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Re: Being Open-minded is a lie. - September 3rd 2013, 12:04 PM

I think the reason you think being open minded is not possible is cause maybe you have to strict of a definition of what it takes to be open minded and that's why you think that it's a lie. Being open minded doesn't mean you can't have opinions and sometimes what you think might even be wrong. You can still think what ever you want. Being open minded just means you can hear other opinions without judgement and hostility.

For example, because it is in the religion forum. I am an atheist, and nothing is going to change that any time soon. But I can hear about other peoples religions with an "open mind" I can hear about it without judging why you'd want to believe it. Yes, I have opinions about why I think Christianity isn't for me, but I can also imagine why someone would want to believe in God. Know what I mean?

Heck, I could be horribly horribly wrong, there could be a God out there and he could be laughing at me for being so stupid as to not know that, but the point of being open minded isn't to know everything. The point of being open minded is to be able to hear other views, accept that the person is allowed to think that and do so without judging them for that.

Its about being able to respect opinions that are contrary to your own. And thats huge, how do you open your mind to other realities that fly in the face of your own beliefs. Sometimes you CAN'T be open minded when a topic crosses into being blatantly ignorant. If you tell me that evolution and dinosaurs are fake then that's crossing a line, but that's not the point. Part of the problem with contradicting science is not only that there is physical evidence for it but now that person is not being open minded themselves cause they're attacking what I believe in as falsified and fake when I see more evidence of it being real then any religion out there. When it comes to valid topics that could theoretically be right (Buddhism, atheism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism etc) then I am willing to hear it. Or like when someone tells me they were abused or that they were so tight on money they stole food or that they got really really drunk.... a lot... I'm not going to pass judgement on stuff like that.... That to me is what open mindedness is. It's having your own beliefs, opinions and liestyle without closing yourself off from hearing alternate views in an accepting way




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Re: Being Open-minded is a lie. - September 3rd 2013, 09:22 PM

I'm also a Christian, but I don't believe being open minded is a lie as such. It's perfectly possible to maintain an open mind on a variety of topics, and ultimately is a much better way to be than the alternative. Where I think the problem is, in terms of the whole religion debate anyway, is that because someone's beliefs (or lack thereof) is such a personal thing to them given its role in shaping their entire world view and attitude towards life that they're not prepared to accept just how limited the objective evidence available is. The shortcomings of religious texts are well-documented (if you'll pardon the unintentional pun, at this time of night I can't think of a better way of putting it...) and there's a lot to the whole being religious thing which involves a sizeable shot in the dark. Likewise, for those advocating atheistic standpoints it's a bit of a fallacy to claim that "science" can disprove the existence of God - for one, science is a means of acquiring knowledge of the physical world, so it's neither a standalone dogma/philosophical position nor really capable of providing any concrete answers as to what lies beyond the boundaries of our Universe. We can hazard a guess, and many have, but when looking at something like theoretical physics it's probably a good idea to focus on the first word. But I digress. Bottom line is, being open minded in the whole religion thing does (in my view at least) require some recognition that at best any standpoint on the subject is going to be grounded in nothing much stronger than someone's opinion. God, should He exist, is very unlikely to come down on a stormcloud surrounded by cherubs and angels. There's certainly plenty of scope within the area to form an opinion one way or the other on a number of topics, but trying to advocate one position or the other too strongly is probably overestimating the strength of the evidence being used to support it. Or indeed the relevance. On the science point, for example, I'm a firm advocate of the sciences and the scientific method but I'm still religious, and for me there is no conflict between those two positions. But I digress.

I would probably agree that being truly open minded, in the manner I describe above, is very rare indeed. I don't by any means hold myself out as an example in this regard - I know I have my own prejudices which come into play so I'd be lying if I did. But it's not impossible. Damned hard perhaps, but not impossible.


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Re: Being Open-minded is a lie. - September 4th 2013, 07:49 AM

The main issue I have with religious people in debates is their presupposition that God exists. It closes them off to significant scrutiny and proper evaluation. You shouldn't expect to know the answer before the inquiry and be considered "open-minded" at the same time.


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Re: Being Open-minded is a lie. - September 4th 2013, 10:52 AM

Interesting discussion. For me, I think I have an open mind. That is, I'm open to change based on evidence.

However, I also see faith (and by extension religion) is outside of the domain of reason. Strangely, I had a prepared essay on this :P
http://www.teenhelp.org/blogs/mahray...ntific-method/

It is good to see such reasoned and respectful discussion of this!


Feel free to email/PM/VM/whatever me if you want. I'll answer as soon as I can.

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Re: Being Open-minded is a lie. - September 4th 2013, 07:48 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason C. View Post
If you're a christian, you've probably heard the word's "You're closed-minded", mostly from people who pride themselves of being "open" minded. The idea around being open-minded is the idea that your mind is free of all "false" belief's and superstitions. The irony behind it all though, is that if one person dare's to believe in a higher power, or anything that may seem religious at all. The "open"- minded people automatically declares that one person "closed-minded". Which makes me believe, that being "open-minded" is a lie told to one's self. Humans lie to themselves all the time, and being "open-minded" is just one of those lies. That's just my opinion. I have nothing against people who believe themselves to be open minded, but really, are religious people closed-minded. Or is being open-minded just a lie? I believe, that being "open-minded" is a lie.
Actually, being open-minded is simply admitting to oneself that you MAY be wrong. A closed-minded person is someone who assumes their belief is true, infallible, and believes they've found the "one truth." Often this is directed at Chrisians because their claims are solely on faith. "My god is the one true god, all other gods are false." This is an extraordinary claim and demands evidence. Without evidence, it is a faith-based claim and makes you closed-minded because you won't even consider the possibility of being wrong. This post is a prime example. You're claiming you are right and everyone else is wrong simply based on a belief. You've provided no evidence, just claims. It's ignorant to assume you know all the answers and think that there is no possibility that you are wrong. That's what makes you closed-minded.

It's not about accepting everything as being equally valid, it's about realizing you're human and make mistakes.


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Last edited by ThisWillDestroyYou; September 5th 2013 at 02:37 AM.
   
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Re: Being Open-minded is a lie. - September 6th 2013, 04:23 AM

Quote:
You're claiming you are right and everyone else is wrong simply based on a belief.
I don't really think I said "BEING OPEN-MINDED IS A LIE. I'M RIGHT AND YOUR WRONG. IT NO OPINION! IT FACT!" anywhere in my post.

Quote:
The main issue I have with religious people in debates is their presupposition that God exists.
Hmm I'm sure the reason why Christians or other religious people in debates do that is because they believe in God, or a higher power in the first place.
   
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Re: Being Open-minded is a lie. - September 6th 2013, 09:45 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason C. View Post
Hmm I'm sure the reason why Christians or other religious people in debates do that is because they believe in God, or a higher power in the first place.
And I don't begrudge them simply for that. But presuppositional apologetics expect me to argue in a prism in which they're already asserted God exists. I'm trying to counter that very premise. The kind of circular arguments that follow are the result of them not being open-minded enough to consider the position of their opponent and take a step back to justify their reasons for believing in God (ie. not because of biblical reasoning).
It doesn't serve you well to assume the answer before the question has been explored, as I've said.


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Re: Being Open-minded is a lie. - September 6th 2013, 12:50 PM

Sweet, this is just like my philosophy class debates!

I personally believe people are able to be open-minded, whether they are christian, atheist, jewish, etc. I believe this because I am a christian, in a way. Many christian beliefs reject my new-age like thoughts, but I still believe in a God based on scientific evidence. I know, it sounds strange. But a few years back, when I was 14 or 15, I felt so confused and lost (even though I grew up christian) That I opened up, looking for answers. I'm still open to anything anyone has to say about beliefs, and I will take whatever beliefs into account.
   
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Re: Being Open-minded is a lie. - September 6th 2013, 02:07 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason C. View Post
I don't really think I said "BEING OPEN-MINDED IS A LIE. I'M RIGHT AND YOUR WRONG. IT NO OPINION! IT FACT!" anywhere in my post.
First of all, I didn't say you said that. Secondly, I included in my quote that you are basing your claims on a belief. Both an opinion and belief, which you excluded from your sarcastic remark. Third, you don't need to say, "I'm right and you're wrong," for it to be implied. You stated three times in a paragraph that being open-minded is a lie. If I believe it isn't a lie, then you are implying that I am wrong. You can't have it both ways. Also, where my post begins, "It's ignorant..." I am not directing that specifically towards you. It's meant towards anyone claiming they've found the "one truth" without doubting it in the least.

I also have a question, if humans lie to themselves all the time, how do you know you aren't lying to yourself about this? And, if it's not too much trouble, could you address the rest of my other post? I'm interested to hear your thoughts.


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