TeenHelp
Support Forums Today's Posts

Get Advice Connect with TeenHelp Resources
HelpLINK Facebook     Twitter     Tumblr     Instagram    Hotlines    Safety Zone    Alternatives

You are not registered or have not logged in

Hello guest! (Not a guest? Log in above!)

As a guest on TeenHelp you are only able to use some of our site's features. By registering an account you will be able to enjoy unlimited access to our site, and will be able to:

  • Connect with thousands of teenagers worldwide by actively taking part in our Support Forums and Chat Room.
  • Find others with similar interests in our Social Groups.
  • Express yourself through our Blogs, Picture Albums and User Profiles.
  • And much much more!

Signing up is free, anonymous and will only take a few moments, so click here to register now!


Religion and Spirituality, Science and Philosophy Use this forum to discuss what you believe in. This is a place where everyone may share their views freely.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  (#1 (permalink)) Old
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
ThisWillDestroyYou's Avatar
 
Name: Michael
Gender: Male
Location: USA

Posts: 1,050
Join Date: July 5th 2011

Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 23rd 2013, 05:23 PM

Hey everyone,

My girlfriend and I have noticed increasing numbers in young people deconverting to atheism. Some people may mark this as an accomplishment for the atheistic community. Others may see it as the world becoming more "sinful." But, I actually see it being very discouraging.

I've noticed the intellect among self-proclaiming atheists to be declining. I have no data to back this up, but it's apparent in various conversations I have with people. In fact, I've noticed many religious people who have deconverted to atheism still hold a blind faith no different than their prior.

It seems to me atheism has become sort of a cool trend for people, as intellect is beginning to become a prized possession in our society (where before it was made fun of). People want to be classified as intelligent, and so, I think they classify themselves into atheism, all the while still clinging to a blind faith.

I've noticed very few understand evolution. Fewer understand evolution and how it relates to religion (many claiming evolution explains away god, which it clearly doesn't). And, even less misunderstand the big bang and its implications. Many are converting based on moral objections, which is not a reason to rely on atheism and science.

I don't know if this is just me noticing this, or if it has always been this way. However, I'm cowering from using the term "atheist" to describe myself now because of the ignorance in the trendy lot that has given atheism a bad rep. Not because I prefer to be looked at as intelligent. I'm one of the first to say that I am not intelligent. I have very little confidence in myself, abilities, and knowledge. But, because I prefer to separate myself from blind faith.

I find so many people claiming they think science explains god away. It doesn't. And even if it did, those people who make those claims can't even explain why it explains away god, or give any credible evidence as to why. In fact, I find many of their understandings of logic and science to be rather elementary and it is shameful.

I don't know if this thread is meant to be a question, a statement, or a plea. But those who consider yourselves atheists. Please don't pride yourself or puff yourselves up thinking you understand the Universe simply because you disagree with a bible verse, or because the bible seems irrational. If your logic leads you to disagree with the bible, this doesn't make you an atheist. It means you don't believe in the theistic god of the bible, and that is all. Please, I beg, stop giving the atheistic community a bad rep. Before you start on your crusades to make proselytes of your blind atheistic faith, please, establish a basic understanding of science and reason. That way, when you go out, you'll no longer be looking to proselytize. You'll be looking to discover, share, and even doubt truth. I'm exhausted of hearing of so-and-so becoming atheist because they don't see how god is a god of love. Or because they don't believe in miracles. Or because they disagree with the bible. Or because the bible isn't modern enough, or because of hypocrites. All these reasons make your atheism blind. It's not based on evidence. It's based on what you believe to be wrong with the bible, which isn't based on evidence. It's based on your subjective opinion.

And now that I am done with my rant, has anyone noticed any of this? Or is it just me..?


"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love."
- Carl Sagan
   
1 user(s) liked this post or found it helpful.
  (#2 (permalink)) Old
Most Likely Offline
Avete vos
Experienced TeenHelper
******
 
Most Likely's Avatar
 
Name: -
Gender: -
Location: -

Posts: 557
Blog Entries: 6
Join Date: September 17th 2013

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 23rd 2013, 08:04 PM

People simply think that if they don't like any religion, that makes them atheists. It's not like this. People think that if they aren't too religious, it makes them atheits. It's not the same thing as well. And many of people declare themselves as atheists simply because their friends said so.

And yes, I do find your thoughts correct. I noticed that some time ago.

People are pathetic.
  Send a message via Skype™ to Most Likely 
  (#3 (permalink)) Old
JustACityBoy Offline
Telemachus
Regular TeenHelper
*****
 
JustACityBoy's Avatar
 
Name: Carl
Age: 21
Gender: Male
Location: New York

Posts: 352
Blog Entries: 113
Join Date: January 30th 2012

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 23rd 2013, 08:45 PM

Atheism became a regular thing now, once you go to school and if your parents were not strictly religious, your going to hear alot of blasphemous things; evolution, crusades, how no one worships Zeus anymore, all those make Christianity look silly, making you naturally become an atheist.


What lies ahead is unknown. However, in some times, I've sighted several smooth pavements. I myself am the mender of roads, and it is with these we work on.
   
  (#4 (permalink)) Old
Adam the Fish Offline
The Skittlemeister.
I can't get enough
*********
 
Adam the Fish's Avatar
 
Name: Adam
Age: 20
Gender: Male
Location: Bristol

Posts: 2,343
Blog Entries: 6
Join Date: August 24th 2012

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 23rd 2013, 09:03 PM

This is an incredibly good post, and I agree with you.

Use "Humanist" . I don't believe in the Bible, and I am perfectly happy to ridicule it if that's what it takes for someone to stop condemning LGBT rights, etc.

But, I personally understand much more of human knowledge than I think is normally expected of someone of my age, and I constantly seek to know and understand more about the Universe. I know nothing, such a small fraction of anything let alone everything and I accept that this will always be the case.

However, "Atheist" - lack of belief in a god.
Well...yep, that's me. And heck, I like the comedy that comes with it.

Oh, and incidentally, Carl - evolution is not really blasphemous, it's science.


Skittlify me up...
Adam the Fish | 26/08/12 | 08/10/12 | 02/12/12 | 09/02/13 | 01/06/13 | 30/08/13 | 25/11/13
...spreading happiness and joy around the Internet!
...well, I try, anyway. .......................
private message.visitor message.profile.email
"May we always remember that we are the rainbow."
   
  (#5 (permalink)) Old
AtheistProud Offline
Member
Not a n00b
**
 
AtheistProud's Avatar
 

Posts: 83
Join Date: September 22nd 2013

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 23rd 2013, 09:20 PM

I really dont understand this but maybe its me. When you say GOD what god are you talking about? there thousand of people that believe in a different god. Do you mean GOD as in something that started the big bang? Do you mean GOD as in the bible? You know the bible, the one book that says you should murder you own children, you should beat your wife, and has talking donkeys in it?


Follow me on twitter! https://twitter.com/AtheistFire
   
  (#6 (permalink)) Old
Lizzie Offline
Volunteering Officer
Outside, huh?
**********
 
Lizzie's Avatar
 
Name: Lizzie
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Location: USA

Posts: 4,700
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 23rd 2013, 09:48 PM

I personally haven’t noticed a recent uprising in those that believe in atheism. I do think that some people get atheism and agnosticism confused. But I also feel like there are more teenagers who claim to be atheist because they are not sure what they believe. I know at one point in my teen years I thought I considered myself atheist. I would even goes as far to say as a lot of people feel that way at some point in their life. Some people will continue to feel that way, others won’t.




Interested in becoming a staff member? Feel free to PM me, or apply HERE!
::Teen Help Member Since 2006::
::Staff Member for ten years::
~Blessed Be~
   
  (#7 (permalink)) Old
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
ThisWillDestroyYou's Avatar
 
Name: Michael
Gender: Male
Location: USA

Posts: 1,050
Join Date: July 5th 2011

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 23rd 2013, 10:06 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by AtheistProud View Post
I really dont understand this but maybe its me. When you say GOD what god are you talking about? there thousand of people that believe in a different god. Do you mean GOD as in something that started the big bang? Do you mean GOD as in the bible? You know the bible, the one book that says you should murder you own children, you should beat your wife, and has talking donkeys in it?
My post readily explains what I am referring to and is really irrelevant which god I'm walking about. I'm speaking to the idea of god(s). None in particular, but if I had to choose, growing up in the West, I'd choose the Abrahamic god. Regardless, I don't really see what your point is in asking these questions. The point holds despite what their prior faith was.


"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love."
- Carl Sagan
   
  (#8 (permalink)) Old
dr2005 Offline
Legal Beagle
I can't get enough
*********
 
dr2005's Avatar
 
Name: Dave
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Location: UK

Posts: 2,221
Join Date: February 14th 2010

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 23rd 2013, 10:08 PM

I've noticed the same thing as you Mike, it has to be said (albeit from the other side of the coin as it were ). People use the term "atheist" and claim to be thus without actually comprehending fully what that means - as you say, disagreeing with the Bible or Christianity alone doesn't make you an atheist. I suspect part of the issue may be that in popular debate a lot of atheistic campaigning (as it were) has been focused on Christianity - unsurprisingly given it's the main belief system in the Western world where a lot of this happens - which may lead people to narrow their focus. I suspect another part of the issue, quite frankly, is that a lot of popular discourse on religion is pretty shallow. Let's be honest, "The God Delusion" is unlikely to be considered a leading text in the history of philosophy of religion anytime soon, and nor for that matter are many of the books written in response. Basically, all sides of the debate could really do with a broader education on the topic - if for no other reason than it might lead to a rational, respectful discourse on the subject rather than the vitriol and bile which tends to get hurled around more often than not.


"The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." - Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

However bleak things seem, however insurmountable the darkness appears, remember that you have worth and nothing can take that away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMFG!You'reActuallySmart! View Post
If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
RIP Nick
   
  (#9 (permalink)) Old
Ambedo. Offline
I'm as sane as I ever was.

Outside, huh?
**********
 
Ambedo.'s Avatar
 
Name: Sam
Age: 25
Gender: Female

Posts: 3,569
Blog Entries: 26
Join Date: July 19th 2011

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 24th 2013, 07:15 AM

I've noticed the same thing. I feel like a lot of people are realizing that Christianity might not be the way, so they just jump straight to atheism. And, I think that's where a lot of ignorant atheists come from. I've seen an uprising in people who identify as atheist and spend 90% of the time bashing the Bible, as if that's the key to people seeing you as an atheist. Essentially, what I'm seeing is a lot of people who have fallen to atheism without doing any sort of research to come to their beliefs. It's almost like it's the "cool" thing to do now, rather than a legitimate worldview. Granted, that isn't true of all atheists - it's just what seems to be the trend within the past year or so.


wanderlust consumed her;
foreign hearts & exotic minds compelled her.
she had a gypsy soul
and a vibrant heart for the unknown.
-d. marie
   
  (#10 (permalink)) Old
AtheistProud Offline
Member
Not a n00b
**
 
AtheistProud's Avatar
 

Posts: 83
Join Date: September 22nd 2013

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 25th 2013, 01:24 AM

good post even if i have not noticed that but i dont know a lot of atheist


Follow me on twitter! https://twitter.com/AtheistFire
   
  (#11 (permalink)) Old
.:Bibliophile:. Offline
PM me anytime!

TeenHelp Veteran
*************
 
.:Bibliophile:.'s Avatar
 
Gender: Just me

Posts: 16,313
Blog Entries: 1722
Join Date: January 18th 2009

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 25th 2013, 04:59 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rachael98 View Post
This is an incredibly good post, and I agree with you.

Use "Humanist" . I don't believe in the Bible, and I am perfectly happy to ridicule it if that's what it takes for someone to stop condemning LGBT rights, etc.

But, I personally understand much more of human knowledge than I think is normally expected of someone of my age, and I constantly seek to know and understand more about the Universe. I know nothing, such a small fraction of anything let alone everything and I accept that this will always be the case.

However, "Atheist" - lack of belief in a god.
Well...yep, that's me. And heck, I like the comedy that comes with it.

Oh, and incidentally, Carl - evolution is not really blasphemous, it's science.

Adam, I don't think ridiculing the bible will stop people from condemning LGBT rights. I believe in God but I don't believe in everything that Christians believe (there is a long and involved reason for this that I won't get into ... I don't want to bore you ) And, like you there was a time period when I thought ridiculing the bible would make ... those who chose to be ... bigoted towards the LGBT community less so but I realized that this wasn't the solution. I've just started advocating for my LGBT friends. I felt better about the advocating that I did then the ridiculing I did because in the end I felt like I was doing more good by advocating. Not sure if that makes sense.

As for the OP, I really enjoyed reading this post because it opened my eyes to what atheism really is. I think, from reading this post and from a few observations that I have made, that people confuse atheism with agnosticism. I think that people are so quick to want to label themselves something that they don't take time to read information and get to know more about the label they are giving themselves.


|Lead Moderator|Newsletter Officer|
   
  (#12 (permalink)) Old
Lelola Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Lelola's Avatar
 
Gender: Female
Location: Ohio

Posts: 1,077
Join Date: June 16th 2013

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 26th 2013, 02:41 AM

I don't think there is a sudden increase of people blindly becoming atheist. I also do not think that teenagers are using it to rebel. On the flip side, I don't expect them to understand evolution fully or to understand complex physics. I don't understand physics and nor do I care to learn about it.

In a perfect world, someone should not have to justify a belief or a lack of a belief.
   
  (#13 (permalink)) Old
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
ThisWillDestroyYou's Avatar
 
Name: Michael
Gender: Male
Location: USA

Posts: 1,050
Join Date: July 5th 2011

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 26th 2013, 06:14 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarasa View Post
I don't think there is a sudden increase of people blindly becoming atheist. I also do not think that teenagers are using it to rebel. On the flip side, I don't expect them to understand evolution fully or to understand complex physics. I don't understand physics and nor do I care to learn about it.

In a perfect world, someone should not have to justify a belief or a lack of a belief.
If someone is boasting about their atheism and spouting off ignorance, they should re-examine their beliefs. Since atheism relies heavily on evidence, atheists should learn what qualifies as evidence. Learning the basics of evolution and the Big Bang along with the philosophical implications behind them is not a demanding requirement. I think until someone can justify their atheism through a decent amount of exposure to the sciences and philosophy, they should consider themselves agnostic.

If you cannot defend your belief or lack thereof, I don't really see how you can claim to hold that position because you clearly don't understand what that position implies. In a perfect world, people seek truth and discuss it to understand it and grow as a society. Avoiding it would be foolish. Religion and politics are those two subjects that are off limits to people, but they are the most important. They are the two primary things which control human liberties and social thought. They should be discussed with passion, conviction, and honesty. They shouldn't be avoided like the plague.


"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love."
- Carl Sagan
   
  (#14 (permalink)) Old
Lizzie Offline
Volunteering Officer
Outside, huh?
**********
 
Lizzie's Avatar
 
Name: Lizzie
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Location: USA

Posts: 4,700
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 26th 2013, 06:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarasa View Post
In a perfect world, someone should not have to justify a belief or a lack of a belief.
You shouldn’t have to justify your beliefs (as long as you are not hurting yourself or others.) But I do think you should have enough knowledge of your beliefs to be able to explain why you believe the things you do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
Since atheism relies heavily on evidence, atheists should learn what qualifies as evidence.
Atheism has nothing to do with science. Atheists believe that there is not a God. But science cannot prove that there isn’t a God, just like it can’t prove that there is a God. Science is just as useful in Atheism as it is in Christianity.

If anything were relating more to science it would be Agnosticism, which holds the belief that you can’t prove or disprove God.




Interested in becoming a staff member? Feel free to PM me, or apply HERE!
::Teen Help Member Since 2006::
::Staff Member for ten years::
~Blessed Be~
   
  (#15 (permalink)) Old
AtheistProud Offline
Member
Not a n00b
**
 
AtheistProud's Avatar
 

Posts: 83
Join Date: September 22nd 2013

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 26th 2013, 08:12 PM

I think (not saying here but over all) that a lot of people do not understand that atheism and Agnosticism ask two different questions. Atheism ask "Is there a God" and Agnosticism ask the question "Do you believe in God". As, atheist i can say that i do not 'believe' in a god but as an atheist i can't say for sure if there is a god


Follow me on twitter! https://twitter.com/AtheistFire
   
  (#16 (permalink)) Old
Lizzie Offline
Volunteering Officer
Outside, huh?
**********
 
Lizzie's Avatar
 
Name: Lizzie
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Location: USA

Posts: 4,700
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 26th 2013, 08:24 PM

There is a theist spectrum. On one end you have believers in God, such as Christians. On the other end you have people who believe there absolutely is not a God, like atheists. In the middle you have agnostics, who feel that God may or may not exist, we can’t currently obtain a definite answer.

Theist Spectrum

Believes in God (Christian) ---------Can’t be proven(Agnostic)-------------Believes there isn’t a God (Atheist)

Atheism is the absolute disbelief in God. There is no question to be asked.

Agnostics are neither believers or non believers because of a lack of proof on both sides.

Now there are many subgroups to this, but I wanted to clear up that Atheism believes there isn't a God and they don’t have proof to back that up… just like Christianity doesn't have proof to say there is a God.




Interested in becoming a staff member? Feel free to PM me, or apply HERE!
::Teen Help Member Since 2006::
::Staff Member for ten years::
~Blessed Be~
   
  (#17 (permalink)) Old
Lelola Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Lelola's Avatar
 
Gender: Female
Location: Ohio

Posts: 1,077
Join Date: June 16th 2013

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 26th 2013, 09:55 PM

Quote:
If someone is boasting about their atheism and spouting off ignorance, they should re-examine their beliefs. Since atheism relies heavily on evidence, atheists should learn what qualifies as evidence. Learning the basics of evolution and the Big Bang along with the philosophical implications behind them is not a demanding requirement. I think until someone can justify their atheism through a decent amount of exposure to the sciences and philosophy, they should consider themselves agnostic.
These are matters of faith. If you lack the belief that there is a creator, then you are an atheist. If you are unsure and think that we are incapable of knowing or currently incapable of being sure, then you are an agnostic. As for arguing about sciences, there are so many different branches of sciences that I think that is ridiculous. Chemistry, biology, and physics all break down into smaller branches that are constantly changing. I have had quite a bit of exposure to sciences, just not as much on the physics and general biology. I do not hold people to those standards because I understand it's a belief or a lack of a belief.

Quote:
If you cannot defend your belief or lack thereof, I don't really see how you can claim to hold that position because you clearly don't understand what that position implies. In a perfect world, people seek truth and discuss it to understand it and grow as a society. Avoiding it would be foolish. Religion and politics are those two subjects that are off limits to people, but they are the most important. They are the two primary things which control human liberties and social thought. They should be discussed with passion, conviction, and honesty. They shouldn't be avoided like the plague.
I don't hold people up to the expectation that they understand everything about a subject. I wouldn't go to an experienced OB/GYN and expect them to be able to identify GI issues in a 15 year old. In all honesty, the odds of people poorly understanding both evolution and The Big Bang theory is actually great unless they've done quite a bit of current research and studying in a university with respectable staff in that field.
   
  (#18 (permalink)) Old
Visionary
Experienced TeenHelper
******
 
~Mr. Self Destruct~'s Avatar
 
Name: Matt
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Location: Australia

Posts: 639
Blog Entries: 8
Join Date: June 16th 2010

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 26th 2013, 11:50 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzie View Post

Atheism has nothing to do with science. Atheists believe that there is not a God. But science cannot prove that there isn’t a God, just like it can’t prove that there is a God. Science is just as useful in Atheism as it is in Christianity.

If anything were relating more to science it would be Agnosticism, which holds the belief that you can’t prove or disprove God.
I would agree that science can't disprove God, however, that's due to it's operating under methodological naturalism (not ontological naturalism generally - I'd say that's too assumptive for the tastes of most scientists). So while it doesn't challenge God, it won't ever go to explain the supernatural either. Primarily because metaphysical beings or forces and empirically viable nor are they typically consisted falsifiable. In thus way, science only explains things in naturalistic terms. This may serve the atheist better in the regard that they can find alternatives to the God hypothesis in naturally formulated hypotheses, as opposed to religious doctrine. That's not to say religious people cannot practice science. They are, however, mutually exclusive on many fronts (not all).

I'll state that I'll generally seen a trend in this kind of atheism as well, as disheartening as it is. I observe more religious opposition and rebellion in people I know rather than a rational assessment of evidential and philosophical implications on world views. That said, one need not know about any specific doctrines to be an atheist. If you can reject the notion of the supernatural generally, based on empirical evidence (potentially) and philosophical inquiry, the need to learn of specific doctrine may only arise in the event one needs to culturally evaluate one religion over another. It's very telling if someone tells me they reject Christianty and Hinduism for different reasons.


One million miles away...

Last edited by ~Mr. Self Destruct~; September 26th 2013 at 11:52 PM. Reason: Spelling error
   
  (#19 (permalink)) Old
AtheistProud Offline
Member
Not a n00b
**
 
AtheistProud's Avatar
 

Posts: 83
Join Date: September 22nd 2013

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 27th 2013, 02:35 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzie View Post
[font="Century Gothic"][color="DimGray"][size="2"]

Believes in God (Christian) ---------Canít be proven(Agnostic)-------------Believes there isnít a God (Atheist)

Great post, one thing. notice above how the Christian and Atheist both related to the "Believe" question yet the agnostic answer you give is "is their a god" question. Right?

The word Agnostic answers the epistemological question, and the word Atheist answers the Theological question.

Agnostic and Atheist answer two different questions. If you are asked 'is there a god?' And, you answer 'I don't know' then you are Agnostic. If you are asked 'do you believe in a god,' it is a yes or no question. If you answer "no" then you are Atheist.


Follow me on twitter! https://twitter.com/AtheistFire
   
1 user(s) liked this post or found it helpful.
  (#20 (permalink)) Old
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
ThisWillDestroyYou's Avatar
 
Name: Michael
Gender: Male
Location: USA

Posts: 1,050
Join Date: July 5th 2011

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 28th 2013, 04:04 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lizzie View Post


You shouldn’t have to justify your beliefs (as long as you are not hurting yourself or others.) But I do think you should have enough knowledge of your beliefs to be able to explain why you believe the things you do.



Atheism has nothing to do with science. Atheists believe that there is not a God. But science cannot prove that there isn’t a God, just like it can’t prove that there is a God. Science is just as useful in Atheism as it is in Christianity.

If anything were relating more to science it would be Agnosticism, which holds the belief that you can’t prove or disprove God.
Atheism isn't a belief. And atheism relies heavily on science and empirical data for its stance. For example, using the scientific method to examine whether prayer is effective. Comparing modern science and what we know to what religious books claim. Science is useful for anyone, but an atheist can freely accept science without making exceptions which is why it relies on science for answers and not an ancient book.


"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love."
- Carl Sagan

Last edited by ThisWillDestroyYou; September 28th 2013 at 05:50 AM.
   
1 user(s) liked this post or found it helpful.
  (#21 (permalink)) Old
Kraziee65 Offline
Member
Not a n00b
**
 
Kraziee65's Avatar
 

Posts: 69
Join Date: May 24th 2013

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 28th 2013, 05:47 AM

As a Christian myself, I find this actually disheartening. I made a thread about how atheist going out of there way to disprove God wasn't going to do anything. I think I know why some do that. Science has limitations, it is impossible to scientifically test God since science tests nature and God created nature. Prayer is different though, the prayer, and the person praying would determine how effective the prayer is. God works in what is considered natural, so the person receiving prayer wouldn't instantly get better.
Back to the blind Atheist, what I've noticed is that these are the Atheist who bash God, and his worshipers most of their time. Claiming that Atheist have the moral high ground, and anyone who dared to worship God was a immoral pest among society. Which is ironic, a person with a true moral high ground wouldn't boast of their morality, but instead continue to improve it. A person with a true moral high ground wouldn't make anyone feel less moral, but instead try to help that person see the world in a better light.
The funniest and most ironic of all is the "I'm more moral then your God!" quote. No matter how you word it, say it, or pronounce it, when you say that you consider yourself more moral, or better than god you are saying that YOU are the one who deserve's the title. That you are a God among man, which is very ironic, considering God doesn't drown in hubris, like the men and women who claim to be on the more moral high-ground.
I honestly think that they have good people inside them. It's just that their pride, and hatred for those of a different opinion silences that respectful, and courageous person inside them. May you live life happily. Goodbye.
   
  (#22 (permalink)) Old
allenl Offline
Member
Welcome me, I'm new!
*
 
allenl's Avatar
 
Name: Liam
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Location: East Midlands, UK

Posts: 4
Join Date: September 27th 2013

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 28th 2013, 07:41 AM

I have definitely noticed this trend. I know several self-proclaimed Atheists, who seem to believe that just because they broke free of the Catholic Church, it automatically makes them Atheist. I find it rather disappointing when looking for a genuinely interesting religious debate, and the reasons I receive from many Atheists for God's non-existence are "Catholic priests abuse children" and "the Catholic Church is greedy". As a Catholic myself, I'm personally appalled that both of those things take place, but I honestly don't see how they could be used as a reason not to believe in a deity.
   
1 user(s) liked this post or found it helpful.
  (#23 (permalink)) Old
Always * Offline
Member
I can't get enough
*********
 
Always *'s Avatar
 
Age: 27
Gender: Female
Location: Hogwarts

Posts: 3,186
Blog Entries: 2
Join Date: April 12th 2012

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 28th 2013, 01:22 PM

Honestly, I started reading this and all I could think was "Excuse me?! Are you seriously trying to say that people can't be atheist without being sheep following the cool thing to do?!"... Why do atheists contantly get called out on their beliefs as if being theistic is the only valid option?

I can understand where you are coming from on some level . But I don't think people should have to justify why they don't believe in God and then get treated like posers, if you suggested the same thing to a Christian they'd rip you a new one! (And I'd expect the Christian to knock my teeth out for trying to tell them they only believe in God because that's what they're expected to do/they're just following the 'trend" of what people know). Loads of people are able to justify why they do or do not believe in God. I actually see a much larger trend where theistic people scoff and act like it's not possible to not believe in a god.

It's actually super frustrating. I for one have always been an atheist. And it wasn't for a lack of trying to find religion, it wasn't that I just didn't want to believe in a God. I could never be a Hindu because there is a lot about those beliefs were I don't relate, I could never be a Buddhist because, again, I did a lot of research and looked at texts and practices and don't find anything there either... The list goes on right up to Christianity. I have read the Bible, I've gone to church a lot over the years, I have been to the odd Bible study group and youth night, I'll even talk to the Jehovah Witnesses who come to the door, I am not opposed to hearing what Christianity has to offer... I just don't believe in it. And I know many other people who'd agree there.

I think that a large part of the problem is that atheists get angry with religious people for constantly belittling the legitimacy of being able to be a athiest. It gets really incredibly annoying when people act like that it's not a valid option. You're implying people just do it cause of a trend--well, let me ask you this, if a person REALLY believed in God why are they so easily led astray? Maybe they see something in the appeal in being an atheist that the religion they were brought up in doesn't offer... Then I've had other people take an attitude where it's like the only reason I am an atheist is cause I "don't know God", ok, well, I just explained how that wasn't for a lack of effort, so doesn't that really work there does it, I'm not just going to spend more time at church or reading the Bible and suddenly "figure it out" and "find that missing piece", I'm not an atheist because I haven't been open to having a theistic religion, I'm an atheist cause I simply don't believe in God and my presence or lack of it in religious institutions won't change that.

And that's how a lot of atheists get treated, yet we are constantly reminded to be respectful of other peoples religions while our own beliefs are being belittled and disrespected by those very same people. I'm not going to deny that there are atheists who show hostility or disrespect to Christianity or other religions, but I've seen just as many Christians show equal amounts of disrespect and hostility to atheism and other religions. So I think it's only reasonable to say that everyone needs to show respect and consideration to everyone else's religions. I think it is hugely unfair to direct such comments and blame at just one group as if just one group is the only one doing this.

Summary:
- atheism IS a valid choice NOT a trend. People shouldn't have to justify why they've chosen to follow that path versus a theistic path--if atheism is a trend that people follow like sheep you could say the same for Christianity, people follow what ever they relate to the most

- atheists and Christians have equal likelihood of showing hostility and disrespect towards other religions--everyone needs to show respect not just one group.




Feel free to PM me if you ever need to chat or have questions
   
  (#24 (permalink)) Old
AtheistProud Offline
Member
Not a n00b
**
 
AtheistProud's Avatar
 

Posts: 83
Join Date: September 22nd 2013

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 28th 2013, 03:37 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason C. View Post
Prayer is different though, the prayer, and the person praying would determine how effective the prayer is. God works in what is considered natural, so the person receiving prayer wouldn't instantly get better.
Sometimes prayer does NOT work (ok it never does). I mean how many people have lost a arm and leg that prayed to get it back? Out of all that asked to have it back, who got it back? zero i would guess. Or can GOD only answer small prayers like "let our school win the football game"?

Some say that God has a Divine Plan for us, laid out already? What if you pray for something that isn't part of God's Divine Plan? Does he change is plans? What's the use of being God if every person could come along and screw up Your Plan? Also if God does not answer your prayer people will say "it's God's will". If it's God's will, and He's going to do what He wants to anyway, why the praying in the first place?

I dont have a issue with someone believe in a GOD or maker of things, my biggest problem is believing in stuff like above or if they follow a book that tells us to kill, rape and harm others in the name of someone else.


Follow me on twitter! https://twitter.com/AtheistFire
   
  (#25 (permalink)) Old
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
ThisWillDestroyYou's Avatar
 
Name: Michael
Gender: Male
Location: USA

Posts: 1,050
Join Date: July 5th 2011

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 28th 2013, 05:47 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Wallflower~ View Post
Honestly, I started reading this and all I could think was "Excuse me?! Are you seriously trying to say that people can't be atheist without being sheep following the cool thing to do?!"... Why do atheists contantly get called out on their beliefs as if being theistic is the only valid option?
Clearly you misunderstood what I was saying, and not only so, your response is so black and white without leaving room for the gray. I never said someone couldn't be an atheist without being a sheep. I never said atheism was a belief, nor did I say theism was a valid option. I am an agnostic atheist. I do not believe theism is a valid option, and I do not believe atheism is a belief. And let me clear this up, I said the recent people deconverting to atheism have a similar belief as a deity because they have no valid reasons to back up their deconversion, which makes their atheism appear juvenile, ignorant, and just plain blind. Denying this is just showing your bias.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Wallflower~ View Post
I can understand where you are coming from on some level . But I don't think people should have to justify why they don't believe in God and then get treated like posers, if you suggested the same thing to a Christian they'd rip you a new one!
Great. We're discussing two separate groups of people. An atheist relies on logic, reason, and science to support it's claims. Christians rely on faith. Which is exactly why I said people who cannot justify their atheistic claims are not atheists. Why? Because atheism isn't a blind faith. The Christian doesn't need to justify it's views because you don't NEED reason to be a Christian. You don't need science. You don't need logic. You just need faith. To an atheist, this is foolish. Why believe in something if all reason points against it? Thus, if your an atheist "just because," you're following a trend. And in fact, from 33CE till the 1800s Christianity was a HUGE trend. People were afraid to deconvert because of persecution. In some aspects this is the same today. Since intellect is viewed as being prized, and atheism tends to be the stance of most intellects, people are persecuted for having a belief in god. Thus, many people will deconvert solely because they don't want to be looked at as foolish. Just as it had been 33CE-1800s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Wallflower~ View Post
Loads of people are able to justify why they do or do not believe in God.
Whether these reasons are valid are another discussion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Wallflower~ View Post
I actually see a much larger trend where theistic people scoff and act like it's not possible to not believe in a god.
Probably because of the atheists who solely have faith in atheism and not reason. Probably because of what I've been beating the dead horse with a stick: Most recent atheist converts do not have valid reasons to be an atheist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Wallflower~ View Post
It's actually super frustrating. I for one have always been an atheist. And it wasn't for a lack of trying to find religion, it wasn't that I just didn't want to believe in a God. I could never be a Hindu because there is a lot about those beliefs were I don't relate, I could never be a Buddhist because, again, I did a lot of research and looked at texts and practices and don't find anything there either... The list goes on right up to Christianity. I have read the Bible, I've gone to church a lot over the years, I have been to the odd Bible study group and youth night, I'll even talk to the Jehovah Witnesses who come to the door, I am not opposed to hearing what Christianity has to offer... I just don't believe in it. And I know many other people who'd agree there.
If you are not religious because you do not relate to a religion, it doesn't mean you are an atheist. It means you don't believe in a particular religion. This doesn't mean you do not believe in a deity or deities. Perhaps deities that are defined by any religion currently exist. It is possible. So, if you do not believe in a deity, as you state, there's a reason you don't believe in it. More than likely a logical reason. But, if for some reason it is not logical, you'd be better classified as an agnostic. Why? Because if you are not, with reason and logic, able to support your atheistic stance, then you are not really certain whether you are an atheist. You're borderline faithful. Which is not atheistic. Atheism doesn't rely on personal subjectivity, feelings, intuitions, or faith.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Wallflower~ View Post
I think that a large part of the problem is that atheists get angry with religious people for constantly belittling the legitimacy of being able to be a athiest. It gets really incredibly annoying when people act like that it's not a valid option. You're implying people just do it cause of a trend--well, let me ask you this, if a person REALLY believed in God why are they so easily led astray?
Astray from what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Wallflower~ View Post
Maybe they see something in the appeal in being an atheist that the religion they were brought up in doesn't offer... Then I've had other people take an attitude where it's like the only reason I am an atheist is cause I "don't know God", ok, well, I just explained how that wasn't for a lack of effort, so doesn't that really work there does it,
This doesn't make you an atheist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Wallflower~ View Post
I'm not just going to spend more time at church or reading the Bible and suddenly "figure it out" and "find that missing piece", I'm not an atheist because I haven't been open to having a theistic religion, I'm an atheist cause I simply don't believe in God and my presence or lack of it in religious institutions won't change that.
That's debatable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Wallflower~ View Post
And that's how a lot of atheists get treated, yet we are constantly reminded to be respectful of other peoples religions while our own beliefs
Atheism isn't a believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Wallflower~ View Post
I think it is hugely unfair to direct such comments and blame at just one group as if just one group is the only one doing this.
I didn't blame one group.

Summary: Re-read what I said.


"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love."
- Carl Sagan
   
  (#26 (permalink)) Old
Kraziee65 Offline
Member
Not a n00b
**
 
Kraziee65's Avatar
 

Posts: 69
Join Date: May 24th 2013

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 28th 2013, 08:52 PM

Quote:
Sometimes prayer does NOT work (ok it never does).
This is debatable. I've been praying for months now and I can truly say from the bottom of my heart that praying does work. If you were to pray for fate however, wouldn't.
God won't answer a prayer if you wish bad or death apron the person receiving prayer.
Quote:
Some say that God has a Divine Plan for us, laid out already? What if you pray for something that isn't part of God's Divine Plan? Does he change is plans? What's the use of being God if every person could come along and screw up Your Plan? Also if God does not answer your prayer people will say "it's God's will". If it's God's will, and He's going to do what He wants to anyway, why the praying in the first place?
You can't pray for fate. It's God's will, or your will. God want's you to be happy, so if you so happen to pray for something that would help you and the people around you, He'll give you what you want. By no means does God want to hurt you. The story of Abraham I think tell's of a man named Abraham who tried to sacrifice his beloved son to God. God sent an angel to Abraham, telling him not to kill anyone in the name of God. I do wonder however, where did you get the rape from?
   
  (#27 (permalink)) Old
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Age of Ignorance's Avatar
 
Name: Mitch
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Posts: 1,391
Blog Entries: 31
Join Date: February 3rd 2009

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 28th 2013, 10:22 PM

I can't really see a decline in theism in the people around me. That being said, I work, live and have friends who are all around 50 years old. The majority of the older generations have a solid foundation for their beliefs and it would take a seriously "cool" uprising to get them to budge. However, a lack of belief in a God doesn't necessarily mean you have to be able to answer to contradictions. That is because: how can you undermine a person's lack of belief in some higher power without first asserting how you come to the conclusion that there is a higher power.

It's quite simple, really. You can't undermine a lack of belief because, in a vacuum, a person who doesn't believe in a higher power is simply not asserting that a higher power exists. You can ask them why or how they came to that conclusion, or what that conclusion actually is, but atheism in its purest form is simply a lack of belief - it just means that there is NO conclusion.

I don't believe you can assert that the majority of atheists have blind faith, because atheism isn't a system of faith or beliefs at all.


Because in the end, it doesn't even matter.
   
  (#28 (permalink)) Old
thebigmole Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
thebigmole's Avatar
 
Name: Taylor
Age: 30
Gender: Female
Location: Orlando, Fl

Posts: 1,668
Join Date: January 31st 2009

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 29th 2013, 01:47 AM

I agree that atheism is a bit of a fad right now. With me personally, well I guess I'm not technically an atheist, I just don't care if God exists or not, He's not part of my life and I like it that way. Honestly I feel like I have pretty good morals, and since there are plenty of non-believers out there with good morals it kinda proves that God is not necessary when it comes to such things. I do believe that if God does exist he really doesn't care, my life is on me. I'm not gonna pray for what I want, I just gonna work my ass off for it.

Whether someone is an atheist because it's seems to be the cool thing or not, they'll find their way in the end. Whether it's back to religion or something else, most people figure it out eventually. And what does their being part of the fad effect you anyway?


"For Ignorance killed the cat, Curiosity was framed." -Caitlin McGrath

"For this thing we call failure is not the falling down, but the staying down." -Mary Pickford

"But the music's so happy!" -Little Sally: Urinetown

"If our own policies aren't supporting equality then what are we fighting for?"- Kathy Griffin
   
  (#29 (permalink)) Old
Visionary
Experienced TeenHelper
******
 
~Mr. Self Destruct~'s Avatar
 
Name: Matt
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Location: Australia

Posts: 639
Blog Entries: 8
Join Date: June 16th 2010

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 29th 2013, 01:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason C. View Post
I do wonder however, where did you get the rape from?
Zechariah 14:1-2. "...the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished..."
To be fair, it's debatable as to whether God is commanding or assisting in the act in this passage, but there are numerous stipulations and provisions God places around rape to mitigate the crime somewhat. Perhaps needless to say, these mentions are made largely in Deuteronomy, passages 22:23-24 for example. Still however, this is a depiction of the same Yaweh.
Even if we rule out past events, you believe in an omnipotent God who you believe establishes morality. Given his already somewhat capricious nature in some texts, what would prevent him from commanding rape? It doesn't seem a huge leap from the Diluvian flood, especially considering the conditions God is thought to assert justified the act.
I hope it's needless to say I'm an atheist. My discussing God in such a manner (as if I thought him to be real) is purely for use of a hypothetical. And it should be considered such: a hypothetical scenario.


One million miles away...
   
1 user(s) liked this post or found it helpful.
  (#30 (permalink)) Old
MindBodySpirit Offline
Member
Junior TeenHelper
****
 
MindBodySpirit's Avatar
 
Name: Not Michael
Age: 26
Gender: agender
Location: Canada

Posts: 244
Join Date: February 24th 2011

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 30th 2013, 03:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
I've noticed the intellect among self-proclaiming atheists to be declining. I have no data to back this up, but it's apparent in various conversations I have with people. In fact, I've noticed many religious people who have deconverted to atheism still hold a blind faith no different than their prior.
I think I'd actually need some sort of evidence before I could accept this claim as true. Can you give examples? Can you give any evidence that is not anecdotal?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
It seems to me atheism has become sort of a cool trend for people, as intellect is beginning to become a prized possession in our society (where before it was made fun of). People want to be classified as intelligent, and so, I think they classify themselves into atheism, all the while still clinging to a blind faith.
Yeah, maybe atheism is a little bit trendy right now, but that's not what I have an issue with here. What I have an issue with is the way you use the term "blind faith".

Here's how I would define 'blind faith' given the context:
Blind faith is accepting or trusting that a claim is true without a good reason.

This definition can only be applied to hard or positive atheism, which is not actually the majority. Hard atheism is a belief there are no gods rather than a lack of belief in gods. You cannot have faith unless you have accepted a claim as true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
I've noticed very few understand evolution. Fewer understand evolution and how it relates to religion (many claiming evolution explains away god, which it clearly doesn't). And, even less misunderstand the big bang and its implications. Many are converting based on moral objections, which is not a reason to rely on atheism and science.
I'll agree with you here. Very few people understand evolution. It doesn't help that many religious people object so much to the idea of having it taught in school. However, I digress. The fact of the matter is, Evolution by natural selection doesn't relate to religion. At least it doesn't directly. Yes, it's true that Evolution can convince some people that their prior beliefs were false. However, I don't think that's because it explains the universe without a god. I think the reason is because it contradicts the specific beliefs that they used to hold about their specific religion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
I don't know if this is just me noticing this, or if it has always been this way. However, I'm cowering from using the term "atheist" to describe myself now because of the ignorance in the trendy lot that has given atheism a bad rep. Not because I prefer to be looked at as intelligent. I'm one of the first to say that I am not intelligent. I have very little confidence in myself, abilities, and knowledge. But, because I prefer to separate myself from blind faith.
You don't have to use the term 'atheist'. Technically I'm an atheist, but I don't like to use the term anymore to describe myself, except in conversations like this. Instead, I identify as a skeptic, or a freethinker, because it's much more relevant to me. Also, I've seen you around the forums. Don't be too hard on yourself. You are a smart guy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
I find so many people claiming they think science explains god away. It doesn't. And even if it did, those people who make those claims can't even explain why it explains away god, or give any credible evidence as to why. In fact, I find many of their understandings of logic and science to be rather elementary and it is shameful.
You're right. Science doesn't explain a god away. Science can't even address supernatural claims, such as god claims. If a person is claiming that there are no gods, they're making a positive claim, and they have the burden of proof. All you have to do is call them out on it. "Prove to me that there are no gods".

If the person is claiming that they "don't accept god claims", I think you'd basically be on the same page, so there would be no point in arguing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
I don't know if this thread is meant to be a question, a statement, or a plea. But those who consider yourselves atheists. Please don't pride yourself or puff yourselves up thinking you understand the Universe simply because you disagree with a bible verse, or because the bible seems irrational. If your logic leads you to disagree with the bible, this doesn't make you an atheist. It means you don't believe in the theistic god of the bible, and that is all. Please, I beg, stop giving the atheistic community a bad rep. Before you start on your crusades to make proselytes of your blind atheistic faith, please, establish a basic understanding of science and reason. That way, when you go out, you'll no longer be looking to proselytize. You'll be looking to discover, share, and even doubt truth. I'm exhausted of hearing of so-and-so becoming atheist because they don't see how god is a god of love. Or because they don't believe in miracles. Or because they disagree with the bible. Or because the bible isn't modern enough, or because of hypocrites. All these reasons make your atheism blind. It's not based on evidence. It's based on what you believe to be wrong with the bible, which isn't based on evidence. It's based on your subjective opinion.
This last paragraph I'll have to address another time. I think it might need its own separate response. I think you've got your heart in the right place, and it's good to see that you're thinking, but I do have a few things I want to address.
   
  (#31 (permalink)) Old
Lelola Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Lelola's Avatar
 
Gender: Female
Location: Ohio

Posts: 1,077
Join Date: June 16th 2013

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - September 30th 2013, 08:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
Atheism isn't a belief. And atheism relies heavily on science and empirical data for its stance. For example, using the scientific method to examine whether prayer is effective. Comparing modern science and what we know to what religious books claim. Science is useful for anyone, but an atheist can freely accept science without making exceptions which is why it relies on science for answers and not an ancient book.
There are many Christian scientists out there. In fact, I would bet that most scientists believe in a higher belief in some form just because most people are not likely to discard their beliefs they had as children.

Atheism is a lack of belief in a higher power. And it is Atheists that rely on science and data for the stance, but it is not all atheists.
Quote:
I never said someone couldn't be an atheist without being a sheep.
To be fair, you did imply that they they need to study the sciences or else they are agnostic. Which would imply that their belief should be contingent on doing an action that is dictated by others such as yourself.

Quote:
Probably because of the atheists who solely have faith in atheism and not reason. Probably because of what I've been beating the dead horse with a stick: Most recent atheist converts do not have valid reasons to be an atheist.
So what right do you have to judge another person and determine if their beliefs are valid? If they attempt to meet up to your standards or others, wouldn't that make them sheep?
   
  (#32 (permalink)) Old
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
ThisWillDestroyYou's Avatar
 
Name: Michael
Gender: Male
Location: USA

Posts: 1,050
Join Date: July 5th 2011

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - October 1st 2013, 04:38 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarasa View Post
There are many Christian scientists out there. In fact, I would bet that most scientists believe in a higher belief in some form just because most people are not likely to discard their beliefs they had as children.
First of all, it doesn't matter. Appeal to popularity is a fallacy. Just because there are a lot of people who agree with something, doesn't make that something true. It doesn't matter if every single scientist is a Christian. It doesn't make Christianity true anymore than if every scientist believed in Zeus.

Secondly, you're wrong. Most scientist classify themselves as atheist or agnostic. Studies have been done on this which shows scientist to be some of the least religious (religion being defined as being created by a god) in society. Regardless, as I've said, this doesn't make religion false. To state that would be appeal to popularity, as you just did which, as aforementioned, is a fallacy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarasa View Post
Atheism is a lack of belief in a higher power. And it is Atheists that rely on science and data for the stance, but it is not all atheists.
Which is what I am trying to correct. An atheist is someone who is a freethinker. Someone who questions, not to rebel, but to understand. People who classify themselves as atheists without reasons, or their reasons are ridiculous, are embarrassments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarasa View Post
To be fair, you did imply that they they need to study the sciences or else they are agnostic. Which would imply that their belief should be contingent on doing an action that is dictated by others such as yourself.
You misunderstood the quote. A sheep is someone who blindly follows. Someone who just goes with the herd. Who doesn't think. Who doesn't question. Being a freethinker doesn't involve being dictated. It involves questioning to attain knowledge and truth. The quote I responded to was stating that all atheists are sheep because they are simply following the "cool" thing to do. I did not say this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarasa View Post
So what right do you have to judge another person and determine if their beliefs are valid? If they attempt to meet up to your standards or others, wouldn't that make them sheep?
Simply asking people to gain knowledge before calling themselves an atheist, is not me judging people. It is a plea to become knowledgeable of what you're claiming to be, before claiming yourself to be something you're not. It's as simple as that. It's foolish to claim to be something that you don't understand. It's the same with Christianity. If someone claimed to be a Christian but didn't even understand the basics, I.E. Jesus died and rose again to save sinners, it'd be likely they're not really a Christian.

In fact, that's exactly why people deconvert! They don't understand their religion. Then, they proceed to read their religious text and discover, "I don't believe this. I can't." Then, they deconvert. Why? Because they gained understanding.


"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love."
- Carl Sagan

Last edited by ThisWillDestroyYou; October 1st 2013 at 10:43 PM.
   
  (#33 (permalink)) Old
Lelola Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Lelola's Avatar
 
Gender: Female
Location: Ohio

Posts: 1,077
Join Date: June 16th 2013

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - October 1st 2013, 10:46 PM

Quote:
First of all, it doesn't matter. Appeal to popularity is a fallacy. Just because there are a lot of people who agree with something, doesn't make that something true. It doesn't matter if every single scientist is a Christian. It doesn't make Christianity true anymore than if every scientist believed in Zeus.
Sorry, I didn't realize we were actually debating because your premise in the first post was an appeal to popularity.
Quote:

Secondly, you're wrong. Most scientist classify themselves as theist or agnostic. Studies have been done on this which shows scientist to be some of the least religious (religion being defined as being created by a god) in society. Regardless, as I've said, this doesn't make religion false. To state that would be appeal to popularity, as you just did which, as aforementioned, is a fallacy.
Please cite this study as I have never seen one done professionally that would be representative of the scientific community. I am very interested in reading it and seeing how old it is.

Quote:
Which is what I am trying to correct. An atheist is someone who is a freethinker. Someone who questions, not to rebel, but to understand. People who classifies themselves as an atheists without reasons, or their reasons are ridiculous, are embarrassments.
The point is that they do not have to explain themselves to anyone though. You are saying that they need to explain why they do or do not believe in a god. The lack of a belief should be enough. You are rewritting the definition of an atheist because you think it should mean something other than what it means. Yes it is all fine and dandy that you would like people to be freethinkers, but an atheist does not have to be a freethinker. All they need is a lack of faith in a deity or a power or some general religion. It doesn't mean they have to devote their time to coming up reasons to defend their faith.

In all honesty, my atheism doesn't play a role in my day to day life. It's better that I know about different disease processes or different skills rather then spending hours on trying to defend my belief in atheism. I will be honest though, back when I was a teenager I thought that it mattered and spent time debating crap like that. However, in my real day to day life, it doesn't matter. That patient isn't going to die because I don't believe in a god, but that patient may die if I don't know signs of shock.

Quote:
Simply asking people to gain knowledge before calling themselves an atheist, is not me judging people. It is a plea to become knowledgeable of what you're claiming to be, before claiming yourself to be something you're not. It's as simple as that. It's foolish to claim to be something that you don't understand. It's the same with Christianity. If someone claimed to be a Christian but didn't even understand the basics, I.E. Jesus died and rose again to save sinners, it'd be likely they're not really a Christian.

In fact, that's exactly why people deconvert! They don't understand their religion. Then, they proceed to read their religious text and discover, "I don't believe this. I can't." Then, they deconvert. Why? Because they gained understanding.
It is judging them. You are judging their lack of knowledge as inferior reason to be an atheist. I do think that you are trying to reinvent atheism as some sort of person with a superior knowledge of science than a Christian. That is what I am getting from reading your posts. The issue is that atheism is a form of a religion as it is the lack of faith in any deity.

I also think that it is silly that knowing about the big bang theory or evolution is supposed to make the atheist a better atheist. Are Christians, Hindus, and Muslims that understand and study biology, chemistry, or physics better atheists than the ones who are not experts on those topics? No. Because knowledge on those topics do not define your religious beliefs.
   
  (#34 (permalink)) Old
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
ThisWillDestroyYou's Avatar
 
Name: Michael
Gender: Male
Location: USA

Posts: 1,050
Join Date: July 5th 2011

Re: Atheism: A Blind Religious Trend? - October 2nd 2013, 04:07 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarasa View Post
Sorry, I didn't realize we were actually debating because your premise in the first post was an appeal to popularity.
We aren't debating. My first post has nothing to deal with appeal to popularity, nor was my first post intended for debate. I'm simply stating the fact is it does not matter what scientists, or any majority, believe.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarasa View Post
Please cite this study as I have never seen one done professionally that would be representative of the scientific community. I am very interested in reading it and seeing how old it is.
Not that I care for them Discovery Institutes advocacy of intelligent design, but what the hell, one of many within the past decade-ish. Just use google.
http://discovery.org/a/10171

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarasa View Post
The point is that they do not have to explain themselves to anyone though. You are saying that they need to explain why they do or do not believe in a god. The lack of a belief should be enough. You are rewritting the definition of an atheist because you think it should mean something other than what it means.
I didn't redefine anything. I simply asked people to reconsider their position if they do not have a solid reason. It's like speaking to a wall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarasa View Post
Yes it is all fine and dandy that you would like people to be freethinkers, but an atheist does not have to be a freethinker. All they need is a lack of faith in a deity or a power or some general religion. It doesn't mean they have to devote their time to coming up reasons to defend their faith.
Generally speaking, no one would be an atheist without being a freethinker. I'm simply stating, don't have faith in atheism because blind atheism is ignorant. I'm simply asking people to not be ignorant of their beliefs or lack thereof. Don't be simple-minded. Especially when you represent a minority of people. Just like not all Christians are homophobic anti-feminists, I'd prefer not to be categorized into something equally as ridiculous for being an atheist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarasa View Post
In all honesty, my atheism doesn't play a role in my day to day life. It's better that I know about different disease processes or different skills rather then spending hours on trying to defend my belief in atheism. I will be honest though, back when I was a teenager I thought that it mattered and spent time debating crap like that. However, in my real day to day life, it doesn't matter. That patient isn't going to die because I don't believe in a god, but that patient may die if I don't know signs of shock.

It is judging them. You are judging their lack of knowledge as inferior reason to be an atheist. I do think that you are trying to reinvent atheism as some sort of person with a superior knowledge of science than a Christian. That is what I am getting from reading your posts. The issue is that atheism is a form of a religion as it is the lack of faith in any deity.

I also think that it is silly that knowing about the big bang theory or evolution is supposed to make the atheist a better atheist. Are Christians, Hindus, and Muslims that understand and study biology, chemistry, or physics better atheists than the ones who are not experts on those topics? No. Because knowledge on those topics do not define your religious beliefs.
God. I really don't have the patience to respond to you. Maybe a couple of years ago I would. But you clearly are so determined and quick to dissent with me that you haven't even understood my posts or reasons behind it. You clearly haven't understood a word of my first post. I'm sorry, but I won't be responding anymore to your responses until I see some actual comprehension coming from you. I really don't have the time of day to respond to someones careless reading anymore.


"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love."
- Carl Sagan
   
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
atheism, blind, religious, trend

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All material copyright ©1998-2018, TeenHelp.
Terms | Legal | Privacy | Conduct | Complaints

Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000-2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search engine optimization by vBSEO.
Theme developed in association with vBStyles.