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Hypocrisy in Christianity - January 10th 2015, 10:07 AM

Hypocrisy in Christianity, and an intentionally provocative title.

Does anyone have an explanation for the contradiction between the ideas of:

FREE WILL

and

GOD'S WILL

?????



Just... any ideas, would be good.
I'm a supporter of "free will", although I'm not much of a Christian. So to me, the above translates as:

Free will = choice

God's will = no choice

How did this self-contradiction come about in Christianity? For what purpose?


"I don't care about politics"
Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.


   
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Re: Hypocrisy in Christianity - January 11th 2015, 07:31 PM

Sorry for my bad english, i'm just learning.

Look at it this way: He created you. He created your family and your country. He created your friends, your strenghts and your dreams. He created your whole personality, your whole world. Thus, His choices are your choices. He knew all your decisions before you were born.

Now, you're always doing God's will, but you don't know what's His will. We have just clues about it. So, you have to make your own choices. That's what free will means. You've got free will cuz that's God's will. If you sin, you're still able to change your (God's) will and be saved. It's complex.
   
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Re: Hypocrisy in Christianity - January 20th 2015, 07:16 AM

Free will= We make our own stupid mistakes and turn to God when we need help fixing them

Gods will= He chooses what's best for us. Sure, at the time it may suck, if a loved one dies or you get cancer or something... But God has a plan for you, you just have to have faith that it will work out in the end

Sorry if you disagree or whatever, just thought I'd share my opinion...
   
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Re: Hypocrisy in Christianity - January 20th 2015, 06:07 PM

I'm not a Christian, so I'm basing this entirely off of my understanding of the faith.

God's will is what he wants us to do and what he wants for our life. In a way, you can think of it as the will that a parent has for their child. They want them to do the right thing and grow up to be a good person. However, the child is ultimately the one that will decide the path for their life. It's the same for us. While there is the concept of hell in Christianity, people are free to choose the way that they want to live their life, knowing any potential consequences that may or may not occur, depending on what you believe to be true. We don't have to follow what is said in the Bible. We don't have to make our decisions based on God. It's an overall choice that we have.


wanderlust consumed her;
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she had a gypsy soul
and a vibrant heart for the unknown.
-d. marie
   
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Re: Hypocrisy in Christianity - January 20th 2015, 08:08 PM

Yes. It's not that big a deal when you look at it from the right angle. Best way to do it is to flip it around the other way:

God's Will = His Universe, His rules. Whatever happens within the Universe happens because He's set it up in such a way that it can happen, and with some of those things there isn't a damn thing you can do to change it.

Free Will = Within that framework, we (both individually and collectively) have the ability to choose our own actions. We can only exercise it because God and the Universe permits it, but as far as we can control it we can do whatever we want...subject to the consequences of doing so.

So, you do have a choice. It's just not as overarching a choice as you might like it to be. Then again, we don't have any choice over whether we're going to see another sunrise or whether the Sun is going to decide to turn itself into a hand grenade and wipe us all out before we know what hits us. But we accept that. The relationship between free will and God's will is no different.


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However bleak things seem, however insurmountable the darkness appears, remember that you have worth and nothing can take that away.

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If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
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Re: Hypocrisy in Christianity - January 26th 2015, 08:01 PM

You have free will to do/or not to do , God's will. It isn't a contradiction at all. If you didn't have free will, and could only do God's will then that wouldn't be as satisfying to God- because he'd have forced people to like him. Now free will does not mean that there aren't consequences. It just means that people are living, sentient beings as opposed to programmed automatons.
   
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Re: Hypocrisy in Christianity - January 28th 2015, 10:47 PM

The idea that God is omniscient entails he knows how your life will unravel before you are born. From this starting point, you cannot argue that free will in the sense of metaphysical libertarianism reflects reality.
Whether God is commanding your fate or not, his knowing your future means that it can be known, meaning that it is already a fact and has already been created or discerned by God.
The conclusion from this framework is rather inescapable.


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Re: Hypocrisy in Christianity - January 31st 2015, 09:30 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Mr. Self Destruct~ View Post
The idea that God is omniscient entails he knows how your life will unravel before you are born. From this starting point, you cannot argue that free will in the sense of metaphysical libertarianism reflects reality.
Whether God is commanding your fate or not, his knowing your future means that it can be known, meaning that it is already a fact and has already been created or discerned by God.
The conclusion from this framework is rather inescapable.
Not necessarily. For all we know, it wouldn't be beyond the reach of an omniscient deity to know all possible outcomes of all possible choices we make, from birth to death, yet still leave it to us to decide which choices we make. To use a slightly loose analogy (but one which fits reasonably well), a role playing game (RPG) - particularly computer-based ones which most are nowadays - has a number of potential outcomes and choices built into it (in certain instances, a very high number). All of those outcomes and choices would be known to the developer who came up with the game, so in a sense they know every single possible outcome that could result from your playing the game. At the same time, within the constraints of the game, you have the choice as to which actions you take and so have "free will" to play the game in the way you wish to. Extrapolate that out by a factor of whatever, and the same could apply to real life. Whether that is a particularly palatable notion or not is a different matter.


"The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." - Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

However bleak things seem, however insurmountable the darkness appears, remember that you have worth and nothing can take that away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMFG!You'reActuallySmart! View Post
If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
RIP Nick
   
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