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LGBT, Sexuality and Gender Identity Whether you're LGBT, questioning, have gender identity issues, or have entirely unrelated feelings, this forum is here to help.

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Its a choice? - April 23rd 2012, 11:00 PM

I know we have a ton of threads about this, but I have to ask this again (because I'm just like that ) This might be a little different. I'm not trying to get people mad or get super involved in this. But I was talking about religion in band today (the most random things come up in band). And this is more about Catholics i think (cuz my friend is a catholic and she was studying for her confirmation) but that's not the point.

So I asked "Is it a belief that God created everybody on this planet?"
She said "Yes"
So I asked "If he created everybody, then why did he create LGBT people if he doesn't support it or finds it a sin?"
She said "The church views it as if people have a choice. Therefore God did not make people gay."

So my question really is, Is there proof that it isn't a choice?
I'm not religious or anything, but I did grow up in a family with a bunch of Catholics. But I always saw it that it's not a choice. It isn't if you are born like it, right? But do we have like scientific proof that it isn't a choice?


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Re: Its a choice? - April 23rd 2012, 11:14 PM

Okay, I'm a Catholic Christian too, and I've noticed that a lot of people in the Church see being gay a sin because it's a "choice". I, however, disagree with this viewpoint because people ARE born a certain sexuality. You can't just sit down and decide if you want to be straight, gay, whatever. Since people are born with a specific sexuality, I think that God created them that way; therefore, it is NOT a sin.


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Re: Its a choice? - April 23rd 2012, 11:18 PM

There are sceintific studies going on right now. I think that some stuff has come out that it is to do with hormones, bascially that LGBT are "wired up" differently and that certain biological things are different in LGBT people.

Though I don't think it has been offcially released or anything.

My personal opinion is that I was born a genderqueer lesbian and that nothing can change that.


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Re: Its a choice? - April 23rd 2012, 11:22 PM

Thanks. I'm glad I could hear from you guys. But I don't think we are "wired up" differently or anything. Sounds a little harsh. I can't believe people would come up with that.


"There wouldn't be a song called 'You Found Me' had God known'How to Save a Life.'"

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Re: Its a choice? - April 23rd 2012, 11:41 PM

No problem And I think what people mean by "wired up differently" is that the part of the brain that determines a person's sexuality has different neuron connections. Which is obvious since that part of your brain wouldn't decide sexuality if it wasn't different so everyone would be the same. If that makes sense (I'm in psychology so we talked about this a little)


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That you are not... your skin." ~Sixx: A.M.


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Re: Its a choice? - April 23rd 2012, 11:55 PM

Aw thanks. I understand what they mean by that, but it still sounds a little harsh.


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Re: Its a choice? - April 24th 2012, 12:20 AM

I know people in the church like to think it's a "choice" cause otherwise they'd have to learn how to accept it.
But is it no more a choice than whether or not you're left handed, like broccoli, have Autism, or anything else that is just "part of who you are".
   
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Re: Its a choice? - April 24th 2012, 12:33 AM

I personally don't view it as a choice. I chose to accept myself, to call myself pansexual, but I had never decided to not care much about gender when it came to love (maybe I did, but this has been my perspective on falling in love even when I was "straight".) I didn't choose to suddenly have weird feelings around my friend, like wanting to kiss her or my stomache doing flips when I noticed that we were looking at each other. Nope. Not a choice.

I do believe that there is some choice, but like it's said above me, no one sits down and goes "I'm going to be gay today because I just feel like being gay."


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Re: Its a choice? - April 24th 2012, 12:40 AM

Thanks, it shouldn't be a choice, but ughhhh I don't want to fight about it.


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Re: Its a choice? - April 24th 2012, 12:43 AM

I can understand, I fought it, didn't get my whole point, I was going to say something witty to that straight guy along the lines of "If it's a choice, I dare you to choose to be gay." Or something. I got that off of a Ryan James Yezak video when he was talking about it. (I just think it's witty.)


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Re: Its a choice? - April 24th 2012, 12:45 AM

I found this saying "Gay isn't a synonym for stupid!"


"There wouldn't be a song called 'You Found Me' had God known'How to Save a Life.'"

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Re: Its a choice? - April 24th 2012, 12:55 AM

Hey.

I grew up with a Catholic background, and obviously I'm part of the LGBT community, so I know a bit about both worlds. The truth is, people aren't entirely sure about what makes someone gay - there are 'nature v nurture' debates, for example, and many different theories. But, in my opinion at least, there has to be some chemical/physical basis for it. I think the idea of it being a choice stems from some passages in the Bible which make the distinction between homosexual feelings (which are fine) and acting on these feelings (which is seen as a sin). So in that respect, yes, it's a choice. It's also a choice as to whether or not someone identifies as gay, etc. That said, I think the best proof we have is this: have you ever met anyone in the LGBT community who has made the choice to be gay, bi, trans, or whatever they are? I haven't. If it were a choice, these people would be aware of it, wouldn't they?

I hope that all made sense.


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Re: Its a choice? - April 24th 2012, 01:01 AM

Thank you! You have helped me a lot. Thanks again!


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Re: Its a choice? - April 24th 2012, 01:07 AM

I don't think it is a choice. If I could choose I would have chosen to be a "real" girl, a straight one. I have always been attracted to both men and women and never felt at home in my woman's body.

I see no difference between being attracted to exclusively the same gender and acting on those attractions. They are one and the same. There is no "choice". We don't say straight people have a choice- no, they just kiss, screw around, and get married, and have children. No choices needed, no punishment mandated. What makes them so different, so special?

edit: @George, that was rhetorical. I know it's dumb and in some cases not even true, but it's the common and most annoying perception.

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Re: Its a choice? - April 24th 2012, 01:30 AM

... Because they can make babies, that's what makes them "so special". - Apperantly a "Real" marriage is when you can produce offspring.


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Re: Its a choice? - April 24th 2012, 02:06 AM

Yeah well with 7 million people in the world, I quite frankly don't think it matters if you can reproduce with your wife/husband or not
   
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Re: Its a choice? - April 24th 2012, 02:25 AM

I don't agree with that. I know a couple that loved each other so much and they weren't able to have children, yet what they had was a real marriage. I don't think we need more people unless we can take care of the people we already have on this planet.


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Re: Its a choice? - April 24th 2012, 06:18 AM

I do not believe it is a choice.

I have seen one study that showed gay male's brain activity when given something specific to do (I forget what it was) was the same as a female's brain activity, whereas the straight male's brain activity differed. I think this points to there being some difference in structure and development of people who are not straight, or who do not gender-identify with their physical sex.

I spent a long time involved in Christianity, which for the most part condemns homosexual action. To have the thoughts and feelings is debatable whether it's right or wrong but according to what I was taught, acting on it was definitely wrong.

Which, really, denies certain people the opportunity of having a fulfilling and lasting relationship. I know that there are a large amount of suicides committed by gay people trying to live in a condemning society (within the context of religion or whatever) so you would think that if it was a choice, they would choose to be straight, to escape that condemnation and to fit in to what is expected of them.

I think to see sexuality as a choice shows ignorance.

And to quote Savage Garden,

"I believe you can't control or choose your sexuality".
   
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Re: Its a choice? - April 24th 2012, 04:40 PM

George, I just meant that the ability to love someone/marry them doesn't revolve around the ability to reproduce, cause humans aren't JUST about a reproductive capacity when it comes to love cause we're not mere animals, we have more complex relationships then that.
   
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Re: Its a choice? - April 24th 2012, 05:31 PM

I look at it this way:

I would never choose to be harassed, put down, made fun of, discriminated against, therefore how can I say that I "chose" to be gay? I'd love the right to get married anywhere, the right to have equal benefits, the right to be comfortable with a lover no matter where I go.. But I don't have that. I would never choose to live the way I do, but I can't change it. So I accept it.


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Re: Its a choice? - April 24th 2012, 06:43 PM

people do not choose to be gay or BI or trans for that matter they are born that way its who they are. you dont just one day wake up and say hey i want to be gay today? i'm BI and i knew i was bi since a very young age i did not choose to be the way i am i just am. also the catholic church has been preaching hate/spreading hate & passing judgement on people for 100s of years. god created everyone on earth god loves all his children regardless of gender race or sexuality. it says nowhere that god hates gay people or that they are sinners for being gay. People are the ones who came up with that one the human race as a hole spreads hate god does not. god loves everyone & everything.

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Re: Its a choice? - April 24th 2012, 08:00 PM

Thanks you guys. We are all special. Even if we can't reproduce!


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Re: Its a choice? - April 25th 2012, 02:02 AM

See, I agree with everyone here. You can't choose to have a crush on/love someone, and therefore you can't choose whether to be LGBT.


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Re: Its a choice? - April 25th 2012, 02:35 AM

I agree, I just wish more people could see that it isn't a choice


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Re: Its a choice? - April 25th 2012, 03:33 AM

i would choose to be straight if i had a choice
but i don't have a choice. it's weird.


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Re: Its a choice? - April 25th 2012, 03:37 AM

I agree, why would people chose to be bullied? Stuff like that. Makes no sense to me.


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Re: Its a choice? - April 25th 2012, 03:51 AM

Well I know that I always thought I was straight then for no aprrent reason I fell in love with my best friend, who is a girl by the way. I didn't choose to, it just happened...although I am glad it happened


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Re: Its a choice? - April 26th 2012, 12:28 AM

Aw thanks. That's a nice little story.


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Unhappy Re: Its a choice? - April 26th 2012, 12:49 AM

thats what happened i wish it didn't


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Re: Its a choice? - April 26th 2012, 12:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by musiclife.14 View Post
thats what happened i wish it didn't

What do you mean?- Like the fall for a friend thing? -Happened to me too..


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Re: Its a choice? - April 26th 2012, 10:23 PM

I might be falling for a friend, but the Catholic thing comes up again with the chruch viewing it as a choice. So she goes by her religion, but she doesn't hate me.


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Re: Its a choice? - April 27th 2012, 12:08 AM

A good documentary to watch is John Barrowman on "The Making of Me" he is an openly gay actor/musician and did tests and everything to prove that you're born this way.

It's been proven many times by science that you're not born this way, one of the most common things that's been shown is that most gay people have at least one older brother, now that doesn't mean it's the same for everyone but that's one of the way's it's been shown.

By the way, I'm a gay, transgender, Christian. I would love to be straight because I get crap from some people about being gay and that I've chosen to be a man as well but I haven't.
   
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Re: Its a choice? - April 27th 2012, 02:46 AM

Wow thanks. That sounds like an interesting thing to see. So you can get tested to prove you're born that way? Like really?


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