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Kraziee65 Offline
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Re: Religion Controls? - September 10th 2013, 02:51 AM

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Well, if I'm honest, you did sort of ask.
And, may I just point out that whilst you say you "hate" an aspect of me, I do not hate your way of thinking. I respect and tolerate it. Maybe nothing to do with religion, but beliefs and morals, certainly.

Saying that religious organisations don't exist to sell things seems a bit narrow-minded. It might not necessarily be a materialistic thing, but they certainly sell the idea of God, taking advantage of the fear of the unknown that humans have.
And, with respect, some of the so-called "services" religion provides, like the indoctrination of young children, the condemnation of innocent groups of people, the taking advantage of the vulnerable and, over the years, the deaths of millions, are really not great or worthy of donation to support. I'd rather give the money to TeenHelp, myself (or any other charity that solely HELPS humankind).

"Atheists like me" - which, by the way, is a rather inappropriate generalisation - are entitled to our views on whether it is morally right to confuse and mislead people.

Atheists actually don't believe in Hell. Some Atheists see religious use of the concept of Hell to be used for "behaviour modification" - or as I might more bluntly put it, blackmailing - and I am one of those.

You contradict yourself somewhat in saying that you don't believe that Hel is used as a "behaviour modification tool" and then saying it is, but "for the better".

I can imagine what it might be like if no-one cared about others. But...hey, look: I'm a Humanist, so I don't believe in Hell, but I'm still a darn sight nicer than many religious people.
In a more broad sense, think how many wars have happened because of religion. Then Atheism? None.
Indeed, I feel it's fair to say that many of the greatest atrocities - physical (eg. 9/11, burning of "witches") or not (eg. condemnation of same-sex relationships/marriage) - are committed because of belief in God, not lack of it. I mean, how many Atheists can you find in the KKK?

This whole thing is somewhat ridiculous because you keep contradicting ypurself as to whether Hell (and therefore, religion) are used to control ("modify behaviour"), but I woild invite you to re-read the last few lines of your response.
God created the Bible so that people could believe in something that utterly defies what they know as scientifically-advanced, logical beings (even though an omniscient God would know they wouldn't, and an omnipotent God would just make them) so that, in his love, he could stop them from going to the Hell he created? Why doesn't he just forgive anyway? He's omnipotent. He could.
Whatever wrongs someone committed against me, I'd never send them to eternal torture over eternal happiness - I'd display mercy regardless. I think that makes me more moral than your "perfect" God.

You at times agree with me on the original point, and at others don't, but I am still very much of the opinion that religion can, and does, exist to control.
I would like to apologize for a post that you may or may not have read, but I'll do it anyway. I was immature and a little mad and just let myself go. Now let's look at the example's you give in this post. You talk about how churches give their services to Christians , and take advantage on the fear of millions, and as you believe "brain wash" children, is narrow-minded itself. It's illogical to believe that every church does these things. The only one church that may fit in all of the tropes may be the west boro baptist church. Churches do not just only give their service to Christians but to many people around the world. Can food drive's and other charity act's are only possible though donation. Many churches also do not encourage racism or sexism by any means. If you want to prove this, go to plenty of churches, you'll see. I'd also go as far to say that Teenhelp is a website that barely helps. Word's can only take you so far but actions can take you far enough. Churches Synagogues or any other holy house help's the world far more better then Teenhelp does. You say You're a humanist but I don't see you acting like one. Next is your example of how religion hurt's the world. How many war's where caused by religion? Well as a historian myself I can honestly say none. One of the most famously viewed "religious" war's is a series of conflict over Jerusalem, fought between Christianity Vs. Islam. The Crusades. It was a fight for territory to begin with, Both side's thought they have the right to control Jerusalem, Both knew that if they took control of Jerusalem, they'd get money and power. Jerusalem is known as the land of milk and honey, and in the high middle ages, Honey is just a synonym for money. It's illogical to think that war's start just because of religion. In fact, religion play's a small part in wars. The crusade's was a war for dominance, riches, and territory. Oh yeah and about the KKK, part, Take the number of KKK members, compare it to the number of Christians there are in the world. You're looking at below 150 KKK members to several million Christians. Now about the whole, God and Hell thing. God, does forgive. That's why Christians pray to god to forgive their sins. You just have to ask him. How can you be forgiven if you don't pray for forgiveness in the first place. It wouldn't make sense if God let's people into his kingdom when they don't believe in him in the first place. I could go on in till the cow's come home but you wouldn't care for what I have to say. Same could go on how religion actually discourages greed, corruption, racism, and sexism, but controversial minds like your's wouldn't give a damn. It's easy to just assume Religion does more harm then good, but when you think about it, Religion play's a bigger and better part in society, without it we wouldn't know what to do, without it we wouldn't know what's moral and what's not. Without it human's wouldn't have gotten to where we are today.