[Jack]

Originally Posted by Josh

JACK:
In the right world, in my mind, people would take responsibilities for their actions and think more for their child than what is in their social best interest. I say social because I've already said in extreme cases, like birth defects or fatality - it would be perfectly understandable if not the best option.

However "in my mind" is hardly a compelling argument. I also hardly think you can claim that women have abortions solely stemming from their "social best interests", abortion is a hard choice for many people. It's generally due to many many factors not just "omg this baby will like totally mess up my social life."

Research and studies do show, as I have provided part of the research for below, that the unborn baby is in fact a living being. I was actually surprised by what I read and found out, I naturally used to think it was only a living breathing being after it came out - newer research is showing it starts much earlier than that.

Yes, however, the life does not begin at conception (pretty much every study agrees with that) at conception an embryo is no more a seperate living entity than my skin is. Also, many studies define "living being" in different ways, some define it when the heart begins to beat, others when the brain is capable of thought. I can't quite see any reasearch, only a link to a google book which I have no option to read.

Embryos are not human, they are not alive in the traditional sense of the word. It is generally agreed by experts that an embryo is incapable of even feeling pain until the 7th week of pregnancy. However, the fetal stage is more problematic but I see no issue with aborting an embryo. Stats show that the majority of abortions take place in the embryonic stage anyway (70% in England and Wales).

So would you agree that early term abortion is fine? That would be before any credble study would state it was alive.

Choosing to hold off on sex being a crime is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, that's called being responsible and waiting until you are ready to bring a life into the world. If a life is brought into the world and one is not yet ready, in my mind, adoption is the best solution because it would not be terminating the life inside the womb - which research shows does exist.

Oh I quite agree, ridiculous. However, that is the logical end of the "potential life" argument which I have seen some attempt to put forward.

Not all weigh all the possible choices and consequences, some do but others don't, in a right world they would but - yet again - the way the world works isn't right.

Yes but removing abortion because some might not weigh all the possible consequences is like taking away the right to vote because people don't know enough about politics. I don't think a minorities idiocy should impact the rights of the majority, especially in regards to such a vital thing as abortion.

I'd also like to throw out from above that the rate or 15 women per hundred becomming pregnant despite condom use is due to incorrect/sloppy condom usage. When used properly condom failure rate is 2-3 out of 100.