[Flying_Spirit]

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

Now, I know this title is completely wrong but I'm making a point.

I read alot of these threads and rarely respond because I'm flabbergasted at what some people say.


MOST OF THIS IS REFERENCED TO CHRISTIANITY, NOT BECAUSE I HAVE ANY PRO OR CON FEELINGS TOWARDS IT, BUT BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO HAVE THE HIGHEST POPULATION OF MEMBERS ON THIS SITE

Maybe some people who are not religious simply don't bother debating. If you are "flabbergasted " why not reply to them as I am replying to you now?

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

Alot of you who are religious blindly follow what is told by the bible, and do not question it at all. And I need to know why.

Do you simply just believe what someone else tells you? But some people pick and choose what they want to believe, meaning they are not completely true to the faith they have chosen.

I agree some people do not truly follow their religions or blindly follow a faith. The fact it bothers you is amusing. "Live and let live." I would love to know what compels you to understand why people can follow something because you can not.

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

When you follow something blindly, you are missing the point entirely. When in a school lecture, teachers want you to debate and question what they are saying, not because you don't believe it so to speak, because you are actually listening, and debate leads to learning new things.
I do believe that Jesus is referred to as a teacher directly, and most prophets could be looked at as a type of teacher (spreading word, giving lessons, etc)

It is not so much following blindly as it is faith. Some people may call this blind faith but many people I know who follow the bible and believe its teachings have spent a long time studying it and forming their own views and valid arguments on it. It is not ALWAYS blind faith. “All generalizations are false, including this one.”
Mark Twain

Many religious people do enter debates and while I myself like to debate with religious people to see their views I do try to take each case individually. I have seen atheists being trounced by religious people in debates for simple lack of knowledge on religion. To debate something you must first know about the subject. I have seen people both religious and atheists walk away from debates knowing more then when they started.

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

So in the end, is asking questions and debating your religion not the ultimate act of showing how "faithful" you are? If someone is willing to be open to the ideas that other religions follow/preach, then you may learn certain things about yourself/ own religion that will strengthen your faith.

Many people can learn about themselves and their faith without debating. Many a times I have found that debating things like religion and philosophy requires someone to have a more solid idea of what they're own beliefs are. Yes debating can help but it is not the only thing that can help people to discover who they are. Also I would like to know where you got the idea that debating your religion is showing someone is faithful to it? Does this mean that you are saying not debating it means someone is not showing they are faithful to their own belief? Debating can also turn someone away from their own faith it is not always positive.

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

But as soon as someone poses a question that directly challenges something about your religion you say "nope, god is an awesome god and is beyond science and factual proof", while I agree in some ways (you can't prove a "god" exists with fact) but as soon as you play the "You can't proove he doesn't exist card" you are instantly forfeiting the argument.

So you have seen this argument used in every debate? Or is this just another generalization? Some people will say this and others will not. Many religious people I know will say that I cannot prove God exists but neither can they prove he does. When challenging someones faith one can often be surprised by their rational arguments. Just because someone is debating their religion does not mean they cannot form rational arguments.

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

While there is no way to directly debate whether he does or does not exist, it becomes a matter of faith, and accepting that there is a possibility that you may be wrong isn't going to enrage said god and get you put in a pit of fire, it's going to show you are a normal human being who is open to debate (look theres that word again). If you are willing to debate for the side of an argument that there is no possible way for you to actually "win" it shows the ultimate faith, saying "nope you are wrong, our god is an awesome god" you are blindly following someting, and do not understand the true meaning of life and learning.

While I have not heard many people using that argument there is also the counter argument, "prove to me he exists." This does not answer your question to them but opens a new ground of debate. You are being just as close minded by not debating that or considering them irrational for saying their God exists. The answer is no you cannot prove it so they have made a valid point. Debates can steer in different directions because the direction has changed you have simply written off their validity as debaters. Also saying that many people would be worried about what God would do to them is also generalizing, the key word I think you are missing here is SOME. I have myself met no person who has felt this way to my knowledge.

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

And my question to Athiests who spew the "science tells us so" side of things. I'm in some agreement with you but I have a few questions.

1) Why do you naturally assume that everything is documented towards scientific findings is 100% correct? Science is all about expanding knowledge of what actually exists, and when you expand knowledge, certain things change about old things you already have looked at.

Nothing is 100 percent certain. While I am a scientist through and through it does not have any effect on what I believe. However at the very basis of our knowledge we cannot prove existence is real because science has not been able to do that yet and may not be able to in the future. Science involves some level of faith in its own way. However if one is to look at science and tests it's laws of nature you will find there is a lot of accuracy and it can explain things religion alone cannot to a certain degree. Some people crave structure and that is something that shows more in science then in religion.

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

2) Not everything is released and made public, you automatically assume because nothing has been made public about discoveries that it hasn't happened. Plenty of technology isn't known by the public eye, so why do you always assume that knowledge isn't with held to?

Has someone said to you they believe this? If so please do say and I will argue this with you. However your generalization skills I think are not lacking.

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

3) Narrow minded thinking. Now I'm not saying athiests are narrow minded becuase thats just flat out not true. But my question to you is, why is this "out side the box" thinking made so evil in the eyes of Athiests. Critical thinking is good and needed yes, but without far fetched ideas and unorthodox thinking, many of the ideas we have today may not exist.

Religion is not looked down on for people thinking outside the box as you have put it. It is looked down on for the fact is has caused many wars in this world and has been used as an excuse to cause oppression to many people and races. It still does today. You need to look at the general picture before making statements like this.

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

In the end, think for your fucking selves people. As soon as you say "we'll science says this" you instantly loose your own free thought, and take what others say as automatic fact. Please, think for your selves some what, yes, everything documented is great to have and scientific facts do point to certain things, thats the entire point of humanity as it is, evolution and the gathering of knowledge, but as we evolve in all parts of life, things change.

Yes things change, however believing in gravity does not limit your free thinking in fact it helps you to look at things in a new way. Nothing is solid fact in this world. However science just as religion makes you think. I think that your beliefs are so strong you are limiting your own free thought. However someone reading this is not going to say, yup I read this shes right, no they will form their own opinion on that.

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

And to religious people, stop saying "Oh well my religious text says that there is a heaven and you have to do this and this and this to get into it or you burn in a pit".

Prove to me their religion is wrong? Show me indelible proof they are wrong and you are right. Before you turn on me I will say that I cannot prove whether it is right or wrong but if you want to attack religious people in such a way, you should have the proof to back up your statement.

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

Okay, thats great, but let me raise a question (to Christians, as it seems to be the dominant religion on this site). IN the end you are right and your so called "god" does exist in the sky, but he's mega pissed that everyone took his shit wrong. Maybe he just wanted everyone here to live happily on this planet after all it says in the bible that everyone is created in gods image. Damn, everyone eh, I bet yall got alot of explaining to do why you are so willing to seperate.

Maybe if God is real, maybe his followers did get things wrong, however why do you feel the need to attack people for following a belief? Yes religion can cause separation but so too can science. Nothing is without it's flaws. I think you should look at your own beliefs before degrading that of others. Prove they are right or prove they are wrong. You can't do either? Then why did you make such a statement. "I bet yall got alot of explaining to do why you are so willing to seperate." Maybe just maybe they could be right so maybe you should not be so judging.

Originally Posted by mIssIng:nO

In the end (and this is just my opinion) Religious titles are the be all and end all of hate in this world. If Christians, Mormons, Jews and Muslims all dumped the tag and decided that maybe the text they follow was guidelines and not a fucking manual to how life should be lived, we wouldn't have had wars and crimes committed agaisn't one and other that we so did in the past. And I'd be willing to bet, if you dropped the NAMES from the texts, majority of people couldn't tell the difference between what religion they were reading about.

I know the difference between a lot of religions I have studied. Take the label off of a book doesn't mean that people can't tell the difference. There is still a lot of words on the pages don't you think. Religion is NOT the only thing that causes hatred in this world, you are missing money, land, power and just plain dislike of people. Religion while causing wars was also used solely as an "excuse" to cause wars when the true underlying reasons were land money and power. If you wish to generalize you should find the specific people or references you wish to use. In fact many people study religions, I'm sure one does not need the name of a book, yes some people might not know the difference but most people would.