Re: Abortion?
 

I voted neither. I don't like talking about abortion, it's just a dead end street.

My parents, (mom is pakistani, dad is african american) were very young when they had me. They decided to put me up for adoption and I lived with my foster family who were Greek. With mainly the help of facebook, years later I located both my birth mother and father. I also got to meet more of my biological family members.

Growing up it was extremely hard living with a white foster family. I always wondered about my birth family and my birth siblings. etc. Even though the decision to put me up for adoption was probably the better choice, I would have rather been brought up with my birth parents, surrounded with my biological family. Even though this is debatable, I think it has to do with the fact that the way black or asian parents would raise a child, differ than a white family would.

This is my opinion on this so please do not get to worked up about it.

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Pro-Mandatory Abortion for certain people.

Prevent genetic disease, overpopulation, and other problems in society.

Re: Abortion?
 

Friends,

We all know that if a woman is raped it's 99% likely it's her own fault for dressing like a slut and acting like a whore. We also know from scripture that if she becomes pregnant she and the rapist must marry (and a little extra coin for the father).

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found;

29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.

Win / Win!!! Praise Jesus, everyone walks away happy and a new loving family is created!!

The sad part is that in this day and age liberals are making baby Jesus cry with their disregard for human life; mass abortions. We all know life starts at conception, and that the Bible tells us killing is wrong (especially a helpless single celled embryo just conceived). I am delighted to see one such Conservative standing up for Jesus (and the Bible) and taking a stand!!!!!

That man is Rick Santorum!!

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Dear god, please tell me that is sarcasm. Because if it's not, that is fucking HORRIBLE. Rape is the woman's fault? Bullshit! Complete and utter BULLSHIT.

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havent read most comments here and havent been following the debate but heres my opinion (not that you care :P :) )

abortion should be up to the mother until its able to survive outside of the womb because by this point it is a life, before then its jsut the potentioal for life.
i dont belive in god so that does not affect my views
i dont think its murder before such a point as the baby cant survive on its own and from a medical/scientific point of view is more like a parasite that an idependant human being (not my words there just a scientific fact)
i dont howeve think i could personally have an abortion, pure and simple i dont have the strenght to 'kill' my potentioal baby boy or girl, however it is the parents option...

Re: Abortion?
 

Personally, I think the only way abortion will ever come to an end is when science/technology advances to the point of rendering the act of abortion obsolete. Until then, it will remain a "hot button" issue and will continue to divide people.

Even though some persons believe it, I don't see how this debate will ever be won by an ethical, religious, feminist, civil rights, human rights, or political argument. It's only going to be solved by science and time.

^ My two cents.

Re: Abortion?
 

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I don't believe it's a "baby", it's a foetus, they're two different things.

I don't really get it when people say abortion is wrong but it's okay if a woman is raped. Isn't that still a "baby" in your eyes? It's not the "baby's" fault.

I think the man should be more involved in making the choice though. It's his future child too. I know the woman is carrying it but it takes two to get pregnant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reanimation (Post 856975) Friends, We all know that if a woman is raped it's 99% likely it's her own fault for dressing like a slut and acting like a whore. We also know from scripture that if she becomes pregnant she and the rapist must marry (and a little extra coin for the father). Deuteronomy 22:28-29 28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days. Win / Win!!! Praise Jesus, everyone walks away happy and a new loving family is created!! The sad part is that in this day and age liberals are making baby Jesus cry with their disregard for human life; mass abortions. We all know life starts at conception, and that the Bible tells us killing is wrong (especially a helpless single celled embryo just conceived). I am delighted to see one such Conservative standing up for Jesus (and the Bible) and taking a stand!!!!! That man is Rick Santorum!!

Please tell me you're taking the piss *) My friend got raped when she was 12 and I will tell you NOW that she didn't dress provocatively.

Not everyone believes in God or the bible -_____-

Ugh, I feel like being sick *)

Re: Abortion?
 

Yes, because I am sure you always follow the book of Deuteronomy to the letter, too.


Aside from that:

I actually don't like the terms "pro-life" and "pro-choice." I think that they cover opposite extremes, and leave no room for the very large gray area in the middle.

Here's the deal: I'm with people on the fact that the fetus is a life. It's not a VIABLE life up until 23 weeks, but it's still life, if you go by the definition biology does, which is that cell division is an indicator of life. So, theoretically, it's a life from the moment of conception.

It develops quickly, too. It has a heartbeat at four weeks, and brain wave activity at five. That's often before many women even find out they are pregnant. And, a termination (I think the word "abortion") is so heated and politically charged) of pregnancy is allowed, in most states, up until the twelfth week. At this time the baby has developed reflexes and has rapidly growing brain activity.

So yes, the baby is a life. And, presumably, if left alone it will grow to be an actual functioning human baby.

However, this is a life that is forming WITHIN another life. A life form that is already fully developed and independently functioning has rights established in the constitution of the United States.

The United States is a very sexist country, as evidenced by the recent fights done by middle-aged white men, who don't have a vagina and probably don't even really know how female reproduction works, about women's bodies. This includes ALL aspects of sexual health, not just pregnancy termination.

So, this new life is growing within another life. And here's what I believe: I do not believe you can take away the rights of a woman to her own body. Sure, it's easy to do on paper. Because obviously it can become impersonal on paper.

But this is what they are really telling a woman to do:

* They're asking her to involuntarily go through nine months, during which her body will experience many changes and side effects, many of which are not pleasant

* PAY for all of that care because, even if she can't afford it, because, well, it would be really silly to give people good health insurance, wouldn't it?

* To face possible severe complications that COULD result in irreparable injury or death

* To do all of this regardless of socioeconomic status, cultural status, religious beliefs, emotional health, physical health, conception circumstances and, oh yeah basic human rights!

I wonder how all those politicians would like it if we had to tell them that ALL of them had to get a vasectomy. Doesn't matter if you want more children, you have to do it. Well, nope, protecting the population problem is much more important than your very personal decision to have a family. Your wife? Oh no, she doesn't have to do anything about it. She's a woman. You're a mere MAN. Silly men, don't you know we got this covered!

But it's not a two way street, is it?

See the thing is, you can't say "well, abortion is okay in these circumstances, but not others." You can't pick and choose. It's like being sexual as a teenager but saying you aren't REALLY. "Oh, well, it's okay if I give you a blow job, and I guess you can touch me down there, but it's DEFINITELY not okay to actually have sex!"

Doesn't work that way, does it?

So here's the deal: I believe that a fetus is a life. I do. But I also believe that human beings have rights that should never be violated. In this case, the fetus is growing inside the mother. The mother did not MAKE conception happen. She didn't connect the sperm to the egg and make it actually travel down the fallopian tubes and implant on her uterine wall. Even if she didn't use birth control, she still was not ACTUALLY responsible for the fertilization of the egg. That's just damn biology.


That baby is inside HER body. It belongs to HER. It's HER body to take care of. She should NEVER be told what she can and can't do with it. She should NEVER be CRIMINALIZED for making a choice about her body.

And the fact that the government wants to stick it's nose between her legs is pretty sickening. Because they obviously don't have enough to worry about without deciding how, when and where people can fuck.

Re: Abortion?
 

I skimmed through a couple pages and this one. Sorry if these points have been covered.

It really all depends on whether a) you view the fetus as being human and b) whether this fetus/human deserves to be protected by the same rights as everyone else.

I've read through the thread a bit, and I don't get why people bring in the issue of "a woman can do what she wants with her body." That's not the point being argued here. The issue is the baby, not the mother. Is it right to kill a fetus?

But yeah, I'm pro choice. Mainly because I don't really care enough about the issue. Do what you want.

Re: Abortion?
 

I'd never be in a situation where abortion would seem like a choice unless it was rape. I agree it should only be in the case of a lifethreatening situation like ectopic pregnancy. For me I'm really never ok with it. Then again I don't plan to ever possibly get pregnant until I'm 23 or 24 maybe 22 earliest. By then I should have my career set with a long term bf/husband because I wouldn't put myself in that type of risk otherwise. If I were raped I'd keep it and place it for adoption or parent matters the situation. Embryos never rape women. They shouldn't be punished the beast who did it should be no one else is at fault for what a rapist does. It's taking accountability from where it belongs. I am a survivor myself of sexual abuse so don't even give me that shit about not empathizing...


I believe almost all abortions are wrong... And only seek to help one side of a situation of a two side situation...

Re: Abortion?
 

Morally, I'm pro-life. I believe a child becomes a baby at conception, but that's my belief and I'm not going to try to force anyone to agree with me. I'm against abortion, because I believe it's murder, as it does end a life, at least according to my beliefs.
Now, having said that, I would never vote to ban abortion, because to believe that a ban on abortion would lower the abortion rate would be naive of me. I'd rather lose one life than two, so I'd rather a girl/woman go to a clinic to have a safe abortion than say, go to a back alley and stick a coathanger inside them or have someone punch them in the stomach behind the high school football field.

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I think I'm going to hurl...
If this wasn't sarcasm, can this person be banned?

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I am absolutely, 100% against abortion... I would do everything in my power to talk a women out of it... with that being said... I would NEVER EVER take that right away from a woman.

As much as I know about the pain it causes in the long run, and the extensive counselling thousands of women who have had abortions have to go through to cope with their decision... I as a human being can understand the desire to want to have the choice MY CHOICE.

post birth abortion (Infant genocide) is a whole nother sickening situation, and I think that idea should be attacked and shot down... and women should have rights over their own bodies. PERIOD.

plus if abortion was illegal, women would put their lives at risk to have people do it in dirty places, and have uneducated people perform them, it would cause a whole new level of pain and suffering.

people should educate themselves 100% before making any life decisions.

I believe life starts at conception and I have 2 beautiful children that proves my theory. If it wasn't life when it was created, it wouldn't be life now. :)

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This is exactly how my brain is thinking, but with a few more emotions...
I believe that baby is HER baby and it's HER choice what she does with it... but my point on post birth abortion. Once that baby is born it has it's own human rights, also I believe women who purposefully do not take care of themselves and do things that could damage their babies development while they are pregnant and lets say their child is born with fetal alcohol syndrome... that baby should NOT stay with it's mother. I would never have an abortion but I wouldn't take that right away from another women who thinks it is the best decision for them... I hope I make sense.

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What do you mean by post-birth abortions?

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There is a movement right now of people trying to promote after birth abortions (infanticide). Saying that Infants aren't people because they have no recognition of who they are or what they're becoming... there for it should be "okay" for mother or father to end their life even after they are born.

They argue that it should be legal because What if that baby's existence in the family directly effects those already existing in the family's well-being. IE - The parents cannot afford another child, the child is born with a disability....

Isn't take what abortion is for... those women and families who are not yet ready, or capable of brings a child into the world... or maybe another. Or fetal screenings... those tell you what disabilities your baby may have and you have the option to terminate... Why wait until after birth....

infanticide is murder, really murder... not a bunch of emotional people calling it murder. *cough* pro lifers *cough*

Here's a link : http://www.slate.com/articles/health...anticide_.html

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I feel this is where a logical hiccup occurs. While the mother may indeed have no control over the biological processes, none of them would take place but for (in most cases at least) a conscious choice by both father and mother to engage in unprotected sex, and subsequently not using emergency contraceptives. But for that conscious act, none of the aforementioned would happen. You appear to be implying a break in the causal chain where none exists. It's on the same scale as saying that because the President of the United States isn't in control of the processes of nuclear fission, it's not his responsibility if he presses the button on a nuke and blows up North Korea (for example). It just doesn't add up.

Forgive me if this sounds a bit dramatic, but I found this statement quite chilling. At no point is a human being the property of another - end of story. We may well have had that mindset a few centuries ago, but not any more. The foetus is a genetically unique individual, 50% the mother's DNA and 50% the father's, and while they jointly have responsibility for it (in my view at least) from gestation to birth they do not at any stage own it. I trust this is not what you were implying, because otherwise I will readily admit I am very alarmed by that notion. If you don't see why, consider the implications of that logic in relation to cases of child abuse, where someone could easily argue it's their "property" to treat as they wish...

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This is just petty details but a heartbeat begins at the third week. More importantly, reflexes aren't present that early on, unless you have reputable evidence to suggest otherwise.

You're stumbling over your feet because you've made the claim that women are not responsible or did not make unconscious physiological processes happen in their bodies. In other words, it's the same as saying women are not responsible for feeling hungry, reacting by eating food and digesting the food.

You're implying the fetus shares 100% DNA with its mother in order for it to be considered part of her body. The father plays a large role in the creation of the fetus but somehow the fetus shares none of his DNA? Even though the fetus is inside the mother, it is best thought of as a parasite in that it extracts nutrition from the mother, relies on her protection and so forth as it grows inside of her despite any discomfort and medical complications she faces as a result.

I agree with the notion that women should have rights of their bodies but I'm confused whether you're trying to draw parallels between abortion and infanticide, or if you're going on a tangent?

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Okay, I hope you're kidding. Seriously. And I know it's not the same, but when I was 16, I was at my friend's house hanging out before church. I was wearing jeans and a hoodie (it was late fall) and playing video games when my friend molested me. Tell me I deserved it. I dare you. [is irate at this point]

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No point, thats the only post the user has made. They have not returned since.

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