Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Jesus had a plan of course, he wanted to ruin people's lives to test their faith. ;)

I don't get how you can credit all good things to god, and then all bad things are to test faith or to bring them 'back'. Very dissapointing.

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I thought all bad things were caused by the devil?

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Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

true true, dang seems like you already got it all figured out, so go ahead and preach it haha you go girl

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Ah, ignorance and arrogance at its best. Well, if you need no theories then I suggest you get no health care as medicine is based off of theories. Also, computers use electricity, which unfortunately is based off a theory, so you may want to toss that out. So, if you want to abandon all scientific theories, then that'd mean you live in the wilderness, you don't attempt to see what is poisonous or not, so eat anything, and so forth. Unless, of course, you accept certain theories, which would obviously make you a hypocrite. Your choice: ignorance, arrogance and hypocrisy or only arrogance and ignorance.

Yes, of course, the Big Bang was made so us non-christians (I love how you automatically associated religious people with Christianity, another show of arrogance) could use something to debate with christians [/sarcasm].

I'm using a phone right now, oops yes that uses a cell tower. You're missing what I'm saying, I love science, just not the big bang theory. Theories are good, just not that one. And I'm not associating religious people with Christiany. B/c Christianity isn't a religion but a relationship with God. And the things most religions have in common is.. you guessed it Jesus.

Very few have been putting in snide messages without giving some back-up when referring to your god.[/quote]

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Well firstly Christianity IS by definition a religion.

Secondly most religions do not have Jesus in common.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

To people who aren't Christian, it is a religion and its put in a religion yes. I agree there. No arguements.

Well, Catholic, Mormon, Christian, & Jewish. Then Muslim have mentions of Jesus in the Koron(spelling?) So you're right, the ones I said do, the others don't.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

What I meant is that He's mentioned in Muslim beliefs, Mormon is a different religion. It isn't a form of Christanity, Catholic is also a seperate religion.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

But he's not mentioned in more religions than he IS mentioned in. And the ones he is mentioned in are ones which Christianity pre-dates so of course they couldn't just ignore it. Most religions take parts of other religions to make their religion seem more appealing to potential converts. Christianity did it with pagan traditions (eg Christmas trees, the dates of easter, Christmas etc) so it's obvious that other religions would do it to Christianity. Plus Islam is somewhat based on Christianity anyway.

And Lee is right, Mormonism and Catholocism are both types of Christianity. Though it makes mainstream Christians uncomfortable to accept that.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Thats what I was talking about, about what religions He is mentioned in. Catholic isn't a form of Christianity. wikipedia isn't a reliable source.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Catholic is a type of christianity. :p

They believe in christ therefore they are Christian. A Christian is "one who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus; one who lives according to the teachings of Jesus." Therefore Catholics are Christian, their version of Christianity out-dates your version too I might add. Saying Catholics aren't Christians is like saying Protestants aren't Christians, they're simply different denominations of christianity

If they're not Christian then what are they? o.O

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Perhaps there is a reason why it is called 'Faith', rather than 'Fact or Fiction?' Faith is not something that can be proved, it's like an emotion, it's illogical, unpredictable, etc.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Catholics are Christians. Catholicism, you're right. I think they aren't a type of Christianity but thats my opinion personally.

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Catholics are Christians because they believe you attain Salvation through the Grace of Jesus Christ.

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I know that now, I just always thought they weren't.. I think they kinda aren't.

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I think they need to be there own seperate religion b/c they do things a lil different than most Christians.. But thats me personally.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

No, thank you very much. I'm glad someone else believes it as well. There's no way that some beliefs could be Christian when they practice things so differently. Make a thread about this and we can talk more about it. I don't want to get off topic.

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The Bible is reliable. You have you're opinion and I have mine.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Why is that theory not good when it comes from the same academics that gave you nuclear medicine, astronomy, planetary research, etc?

You still haven't answered my question: Do you think an atheist came up with the idea of Big Bang?

When you start going to college and get into philosophy and science then you learn that the Bible is not reliable because it depends on faith.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

B/c it has to deal with the creation of the world. Astronomy is the same way b/c I believe God made everything Good there is.

I think a non Christian or non-religious person came up with it.

Okay, you can think that.. No arguements.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Really? Well, that's funny...

(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/christianity). I'll let someone who appears to understand this more explain (xHolyValorx)...


I fail to see how a website, usually with citations to various articles, books or other websites, written anonymously yet recent is unreliable, yet a 2000+ year old book full of contradictions (if you wish, I'll post tons of contradictions to show this is true), written anonymously and with lots of ambiguity is reliable. Do you know what the definition of reliability is? If not, then you'll learn a new term:

(http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/reliability).

Now, knowing what it means, if several people wish to look the same thing up on wikipedia and interpret it, it's fairly good. However, pick random parts of the bible and have various people analyze it, and they get different results. I'm not going to go into all the forms of testing for reliability, however, what I stated is an accepted method in scientific literature. According to the accepted scientific definition of reliability, the bible is among the least reliable things.

I recognize that smell of hypocrisy...

That seems to apply to all theories, not simply the Big Bang Theory, so thank you for being a hypocrite, much appreciated.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Something that I see is the fact of if God doesn't exist then why the debates? If God doesn't exist then it would be a conversation that would have ended ages ago. But yet this is a debate that has gone on for centuries so if God doesn't exist then why has this debate gone on for so long? That means He must exist. Here is another example:


This is in Acts 5 in case anyone is wondering

29.
But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men.
30.
"The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross.
31.
"He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32.
"And we are witnesses of these things ; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."
33. But when they heard this, they were cut to the quick and intended to kill them.
34.
But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the Law, respected by all the people, stood up in the Council and gave orders to put the men outside for a short time.
35.
And he said to them, "Men of Israel, take care what you propose to do with these men.
36.
"For some time ago Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a group of about four hundred men joined up with him. But he was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing.
37.
"After this man, Judas of Galilee rose up in the days of the census and drew away some people after him; he too perished, and all those who followed him were scattered.
38.
So in the present case, I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or action is of men, it will be overthrown ;
39.
but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you may even be found fighting against God."

This was written before 62 A.D.

I'm not here to argue, I'm here to debate in a mature way and respect different opinions just for the record.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

That doesn't actually make sense I'm afraid. I can just repeat the same arguement back at you and remove the letters "n't" from does and it makes exactly the same point for God not existing observe:

Something that I see is the fact of if God does exist then why the debates. It's like saying Michael Jordan played for the Lakers. That argument is an obvious conversation that can be dropped quickly. But yet this is a debate that has gone on for centuries so if God does exist then why has this debate gone on for so long?

That is self defeating logic. Similarly Michael Jordan's playing habits can be proven it can be proved he existed and continues to exist, hence why nobody argues about it. God can't be proven.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Michael jordan is being compared to god? Anyways some will argue he exist others say he doesn't exist and is just a bed time story.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Nope, I'm not a hypocrite. You don't understand what I'm thinking and what I write don't really match up so what I write is always what I mean. Idc if you think that. And I know it doesn't have contradictions, but dude think what you think. Does it look like I really care what anyone else thinks about me or what I believe.. Mmm, no not really cuz you guys don't know me. Not a hypocrite, I know what truth is and yes wikipedia is unreliable b/c ppl can edit it.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

So you are placing faith above science, logic, etc? ?


A Catholic Priest came up with the idea.

Would you call that blind faith?

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

The Bible to non Christians is nothing more then a fairy tale. To many anyways..

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. But, let's use your logic: if it's constantly being debated, then it must exist, right? Well, by that, evolution would exist, the Big Bang Theory would exist, etc... . That's faulty logic on your part.

suniesha, I'm amazed how someone with such knowledge of the Bible can be so ignorant as to blatantly ignore vast amounts of it. Here are a few of the many contradictions:

" "I am the LORD, the God of all mankind. Is anything too hard for me?" " (Jeremiah 32:27), this easily shows God's arrogance and his all-powerful being.

"The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots." (Judges 1:19)... if God was with them, and God was all-powerful, then he easily could have beaten people with iron chariots. Evidence he's not all-powerful.

That is the first of many contradictions.

" You shall not commit adultery. " (Exodus 20:14).. pretty plain and simple.

Unfortunately...

" When the LORD first spoke through Hosea, the LORD said to Hosea, "Go, take to yourself a wife of harlotry and have children of harlotry; for the land commits flagrant harlotry, forsaking the LORD." " (Hosea, 1:2)

For the record, haroltry means prostitution.

Yet another contradiction.

I don't intend to make you disbelieve, however, you shouldn't pick and choose what to believe and blatantly ignore the parts that go against your belief. That, seems to be rather weak faith because strong faith would imply that you may recognize contradictions but still believe. Unless, of course, you are able to twist these bible passages around to show they're not contradictions (I'd be amazed at how you could do that without distorting their meaning and without giving irrelevant information).

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Right... so Bigfoots, fairies, leprechauns, werewolves, vampires, ghosts, FSM & ALL OTHER GODS currently worshiped exist as well ALL AT ONCE because if they didn't exist it's obviously the debate would have ended long time ago.

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lol that was mean..

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o.O
That was probably my politest post on this thread...

The person claimed that just because we can argue for gOd (& did it for quite some time) then he must exist. Same "debates" have been had about the beings & a bunch of other gods. So by his/her own logic - all of those creatures, deities must exist as well.

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I don't but you could.

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The quote in Jeremiah is re-insurance, if you believe you know GOD can handle anything. I mean He's also a Jealous GOD, when you get save you're supposed to worship Him and nothing else, so when you worship other things like t.v. for example.. He gets jealous.

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?
 

Alright, here's another contradiciton: are we justified by faith, or by works (this one should be great, because it's the reason in another thread that everyone was dismissing Mormon's as non-Christians)

We are justified by faith:
Romans 4:2, For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory.

But actually, we're justified by works:
James 2:21, Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

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Mormons aren't Christian..

Re: What proof do you want? And in turn, what proof do you have?