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Adam the Fish Offline
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Name: Adam
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Re: Religion Controls? - September 10th 2013, 05:01 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mason C. View Post
I would like to apologize for a post that you may or may not have read, but I'll do it anyway. I was immature and a little mad at just let myself go. Now let's agrees the example's you give in this post. You talk about how churches give their services to Christians , and take advantage on the fear of millions, and as you believe "brain wash" children, is narrow-minded itself. It's illogical to believe that every church does these things. The only one church that may fit in all of tropes may be the west boro baptist church. Churches do not just only give their service to Christians but to many people around the world. Can food drive's and other charity act's are only possible though donation. Many churches also do not encourage racism or sexism by any means. If you want to prove this, go to plenty of churches, you'll see. I'd also go as far to say that Teenhelp is a website that barely helps. Word's can only take you so far but actions can take you far enough. Churches Synagogues or any other holy house help's the world far more better then Teenhelp does. You say You're a humanist but I don't see you acting like one. Next is your example of how religion hurt's the world. How many war's where caused by religion? Well as a historian myself I can honestly say none. One of the most famously viewed "religious" war's is a series of conflict over Jerusalem, fought between Christianity Vs. Islam. The Crusades. It was a fight for territory to begin with, Both side's thought they have the right to control Jerusalem, Both knew that if they took control of Jerusalem, they'd get money and power. Jerusalem is known as the land of milk and honey, and in the high middle ages, Honey is just a synonym for money. It's illogical to think that war's start just because of religion. In fact, religion play's a small part in wars. The crusade's was a war for dominance, riches, and territory. Oh yeah and about the KKK, part, Take the number of KKK members, compare it to the number of Christians there are in the world. You're looking at below 150 KKK members to several million Christians. Now about the whole, God and Hell thing. God, does forgive. That's why Christians pray to god to forgive their sins. You just have to ask him. How can you be forgiven if you don't pray for forgiveness in the first place. It wouldn't make sense if God let's people into his kingdom when they don't believe in him in the first place. I could go on in till the cow's come home but you wouldn't care for what I have to say. Same could go on how religion actually discourages greed, corruption, racism, and sexism, but controversial minds like your's would give a damn. It's easy to just assume Religion does more harm then good, but when you think about it, Religion play's a bigger and better part in society, without it we wouldn't know what to do, without it we wouldn't know what's moral and what's not. Without it human's wouldn't have gotten to where we are today.
As a member of the Moderating Staff, I am able to see this, and apology accepted gratefully . I might also apologise if it was my fault in any way that you were offended enough to post that.

You're right to say that not every church does things such as oppose equality, etc. although I would assert that any surviving churches have to indoctrinate children. Sorry, but can you imagine what would happen if you told a thirty year old who had no idea of religion prior to such an encounter that there was a superbeing who watched everyone all the time and would forgive them for sinning against him. I mean, sin against God is an idea entirely created by religion, so it would seem somewhat pointless to a non-religious person to apologise for something they don't know they've done.

I would also agree that many churches do good things, but I definitely don't think those things wouldn't happen in the absence of the church. Some charities are based upon solely Christian values (Christian Aid, for instance) but most are actually more Humanism-based (if not intentionally) and would continue without a deity because of our intelligent desire to help others.

Your comment about TeenHelp is subjective (and obviously in the other post a bit more relevant) but I would note that - whilst I do represent the TeenHelp Staff to a certain degree - my posts are my opinion, especially in the Religion forums, not those of TeenHelp as an entity. If you don't want to use TeenHelp, we don't force you to or indoctrinate you into believing that you must.

I don't know how I'm not acting like a Humanist. Quite frankly, I wouldn't say that you know me at all well, and as you are not omniscient, I don't see that you're in a position to judge my Humanist values. Certainly, I abide by the most basic description:
Quote:
Originally Posted by British Humanist Association
... non-religious people who seek to live ethical lives on the basis of reason and humanity. We promote Humanism, a secular state, and equal treatment of everyone regardless of religion or belief.
I would utterly disagree with you on the idea that wars have not been either directly or indirectly caused by religion. In a modern context? The war on terror.
More historically, there are wars named because they were religion-based. Take the French Wars of Religion (c16) as an example.

I accept that there are very few Christians in the KKK and other such organisations, but I also feel it's fair to say that there are no Atheists in it .
Other examples might be that, in general, crime rates for the secular community tend to be substantially lower than the religious community. My point is, you may be more moral if you're not having to do good things solely for "forgiveness" - why not do them out of pure goodness?

Well, if God does exist then I guess I'll look a bit of an idiot when I get to being judged. Why would it be impossible for me ask then? "Sorry for going with evidence and proof, please can you let me forgive you for misleading me so badly? And by the way, I believe in you now. Thanks for everything."
If God was loving then he'd be able to forgive Atheists for not believing in him. I don't claim to love everyone in the world, and not everyone in the world necessarily knows about my existence (or they might even refuse it on lack of proof if someone just said "This person exists. Believe me because I have a napkin he wrote on.") but I would still never send them to eternal torture. I mean, how is that even helping?
I don't really think violence is at all helpful in most situations anyway, but it's definitely not helpful of God to not even give you a chance once you're in Hell for eternity. How does that help you learn? You can't do anything about it.

Please do go on - I won't necessarily agree with you, but I promise that I'll listen to you and think carefully about what you say. Definitely don't feel unable to say what you want to here!

However, whilst I can't explain morality that easily, I know about it, and I'm fine without religion to tell me that.
Maybe we wouldn't be here today without religion, but I think that secularism now has a role in making the world better where religion is now faltering.
I mean, it was hardly as if the Church were constant campaigners against slavery, something we now consider an abhorrent immorality, but which the Bible and the Church of the day advocate(d). And in a few years, equal marriage will be supported by the Church (and by that, I mean the official position of the Roman Catholic church, Anglican church, etc. and the people in charge of them, not necessarily the views of individuals) but right now they're holding back development there.

Or, as the meme people put it...




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