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IH8U2 Offline
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Sex, intoxication, and consent - June 6th 2016, 07:24 AM

This thread has been labeled as triggering by the original poster or by a Moderator. Please take this into consideration before continuing to read.

My friend and I had a convo on this subject and I was wondering what your opinions are?

Me:

i know we already discussed this, but what if someone was totally obliterated drunk but not passed out? would it still be rape to have sex with them even if they said "yes?" i think it is

and if you wanna use that drunk driving analogy, voluntary intoxication is considered to be a state of basic intent and anyone who drives is criminally liable. that also means a drunk person raping another drunk person can be prosecuted depending of who initiates the sex
BUT the difference between drunk driving and getting raped is that drunk driving is a crime and being raped isnt. So even if you are aware of the risks of getting super drunk beforehand, i think its rape even if the person says yes. if a super drunk person isnt compotent to drive, then a super drunk person isnt compotent to say yes, but drunk driving is criminally liable because of the knowledge of risks of committing crimes

Friend:

what is the principle in that argument?

either someone who is intoxicated has agency and is morally responsible for what they consentually do while intoxicated or they're not....also...if you make the claim that a woman does not have agency to consent to any action when intoxicated, then if both the man and woman are intoxicated, then neither one has agency? were they both raped by each other?...also if a woman is drunk and takes an Uber or a Cab home...is this transaction null and void because she couldn't consent to it? or is it only sex that she can't consent to? ....this is why you have to find a consistent principle and evaluate it without the emotional response to each individual situation..

Me:

do you mind if i post our conversation on a forum? i wont use your name. im just interested in seeing the responses. so much grey area here to me. its like that intellectual property shit imo

Friend:

go ahead

Me:

thanks man

Friend:

there's only grey area if you don't have any principle

people get into grey area because they are deciding issue to issue based off emotion
   
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Re: Sex, intoxication, and consent - June 6th 2016, 07:44 PM

Generally speaking, any time someone is under the influence of alcohol, they can't give consent, even if they say 'yes' at the time.

However, I disagree with your friend. It's never as 'black and white' as your friend is saying- either people have agency or not, when alcohol is involved. It's not that simple. This is because alcohol affects the way you think, and thus your decision making abilities. For example, you may 'consent' to sex when drunk, but if you weren't drunk, you might not have made the same decision. Same goes for drunken tattoos. Had the person not been drunk, they might not have decided to get a tattoo. When it comes to the taxi home, that's a different issues. The person needs to get home, and may decide that a cab is a good option. As long as the cab is legit and they get home safely, they probably would've made the same decision without drinking. It would be a different story if they decided to try to walk home, drunk, as had they not been, they might not have decided to do that.

If both people are drunk, I believe the person that initiates the sex is at fault (though not sure about this legally). However, at the same time, the person that initiated may have made a different decision had they not been drinking.

There is no 'one rule for all' approach when it comes to making any and all decisions with alcohol, in my opinion. But at the same time, when it comes to sex, you can't consent when drunk (even if you say you do at the time), so it does count as rape.


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Re: Sex, intoxication, and consent - June 6th 2016, 11:37 PM

It isn't necessarily rape to have sex with someone under the influence of alcohol. The law doesn't specify that a person is unable to consent if they have any alcohol or substances in their body. It is their level of intoxication that defines that. There isn't a definite BAC number. At least in the US- most states would define sex with a mentally incapacitated person as rape. The prosecution would have a very difficult time arguing that a girl who had just a few drinks would be mentally incapacitated.

This is something that you'd need to use your best judgement on. If someone is extremely drunk, vomiting,etc. then they are unable to give consent. But if they are just buzzed then that is consensual--otherwise everybody would in prison for rape since a lot of people meet girls at bars/parties,etc.

If a reasonable person would think that she is unable to consent- then she probably is too intoxicated. But a reasonable person would not think that a girl who was just buzzed was unable to consent. This is one of those subjective things where you must think about what a "reasonable person" would think. Even if the person regrets it later-it's not rape, as long as they weren't drunk enough to be considered mentally incapacitated. But if you are unsure, or feel like you are taking advantage of their drunkenness- don't go for it.

If a guy and a girl were both equally drunk- I don't think that the state would bother with prosecution- as it would be too blatantly unfair. But if the guy was drunk- but sober enough to drive home and hold a conversation- and the girl was in a near stupor- then that would be a problem.

I don't think you have much to worry about as long as you are respectful and use common sense and good judgement. The laws against this are actually pretty reasonable (no raping of mentally incapacitated people), though the way that some people misinterpret the "date rape" laws are not (no sex with any girl who has even touched a drop of alcohol)

Last edited by Proud90sKid; June 7th 2016 at 12:02 AM.
   
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