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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
~Radio Flyer~ Offline
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DBT - September 13th 2017, 02:33 AM

Anyone doing or have done DBT? I'm new to it and today was my 2nd session and I'm learning a lot but also a bit lost and feeling...triggered which I think has to do with me feeling misunderstood and some of DBT speaks to me but some of it doesn't?
Also it is so systematic. Like CBT didn't work for me because of how rigid it was and it somehow felt invalidating to simplify my struggles and find distractions. I get so frustrated when I feel like a bunch of suggestions are thrown at me and it turns out I can't do any of them and need skills that are tailored and relevant to my personal life. That's what's frustrating about CBT, as well as the whole thoughts, emotions thing-especially when I have to do all these t-charts.

I actually don't mind how DBT has diagrams to explain things but I guess...
It is bugging me because I can't tell the difference between being gaslighted and actually being wrong. I can't tell when my family members are staging a scene or are being sincere and truly are scared. Because they have gaslighted me, and they have made drama and staged things to make an effect. So I'm questioning it all the time and this whole"fact checking" feels very confusing.

How do I know if my interpretation is wrong? I should probably be patient and find out next week but I'm asking more philosophically. Like I'm told that part of checking facts is checking the intention. And that's triggering because my father does mean things and then hides behind the "good intentions" excuse.

looking to connect with those with relational trauma and have done DBT. Wondering how you feel about the whole "real or imagined feelings of abandonment" bit of a BPD diagnosis because I think in my case, the "imagined" is an emotional flashback rather than an out of a 100% paranoid out of the blue. And we learned that no behavior exists in a vacuum with an emotion counting as a behavior...so with all that said, I think I understand the gidt of the sentiment but I am confused how to differentiate someone hurting you for real and someone being nice but you interpreting it as mean.

I very strongly believe my father has hurt me. He insists it is all in my head and I'm delusional and lack good judgement. Even if he had a point about how self harm is dangerous and deep down he cares, he still was really harsh and I can't ignore the way he delivered his thoughts. That's an example. Yes my emotions might be to an inappropriate intensity but living in a harsh place day in and day out for 23 years well yeah, that's not so inappropriate anymore given the situation, so I don't like being told my reaction doesn't fit the facts. On the other hand I do want to change because I don't want to hurt others even thoigh thryve hurt me, as a personal choice. But no one knows what it is like to be me so to be told my emotions should be less intense because my life isn't threatened....verbal abuse isn't always life threatening.
Not everything has to be life threatening to damage someone.

So like I said, only been 2 sessions but I'm afraid to move forward because I'm finding I'm so sensitive to slight invalidation.
   
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Re: DBT - September 14th 2017, 07:29 AM

I remember DBT. I took it for maybe half a year or so.

As I recall it was a hodge-podge collection of everything the person who invented it could come up with that helped some people.

Meaning, each part might be helpful to a particular individual, and may not be useful to another individual.

Overall I recall it was a nice collection of things, most of which weren't helpful to me, but a few were.

Personally I've had the best result with the Mindfulness Meditation, which as I recall was one part of DBT. Training my brain to stop endlessly thinking once in a while helped in the long run.

Another collection of helpful ideas is WRAP: Wellness Recovery Action Plan. In WRAP you get to make your own list of "Wellness Toolbox" ideas of what helps you. You can also make a list of what you want people to do to help you when you are not doing well. This list ultimately becomes useful to other people who want to help, but aren't really sure what helps you, because people are all different. There may be a WRAP class offered, but it's not required to do it in a group, it's just nice to be in a group doing things. It can also be done on your own. Just get the book. (I think it's $10. And there's a Workbook if you like. I just use blank lined paper.)

There is no magic panacea that works for everyone. Some people find insight in some things, others do not. Some people find some of the modules (is that what they were called? Parts?) helpful and other modules not so helpful, but I could see how they could be helpful to someone who didn't have that particular insight, or had problems with it.

I recall one part was the "Broken Record", where if you wanted something, you were supposed to ask for it (what a concept! But seriously, I think some people actually have problems with that, or it's a novel idea for them.) And you're supposed to be persistent (I guess some people just give up immediately the moment they meet any resistance, or are told their needs and wants don't count.) However, on the other hand, being persistent could sound like just a whiny child who wants something and won't stop asking for it even though it's not good for them, or there's some reason or other they can't have it.

Anyway, I decided in hindsight I just liked being in a group, so DBT was a group, and it didn't really matter what we did in the group, it was the being in a group where I was accepted that was really what helped me. It didn't matter that half of the DBT stuff really wasn't useful to me, because it was the being in the group that was useful for me. As long as I felt I was a part of the group, that's what ultimately helped heal my brain.

I'm guessing being in a group is like being with one's tribe. I'm guessing the unconscious midbrain thinks, "I'm with my tribe. Everything must be OK. I'll relax more."

So I still go to groups, and I notice it does seem to help me feel better, like I'm getting in my quota of socialization that I need. Doesn't really matter what the group does, as long as it does it together.
   
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Re: DBT - September 14th 2017, 10:06 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by del677 View Post
I remember DBT. I took it for maybe half a year or so.

As I recall it was a hodge-podge collection of everything the person who invented it could come up with that helped some people.

Meaning, each part might be helpful to a particular individual, and may not be useful to another individual.

Overall I recall it was a nice collection of things, most of which weren't helpful to me, but a few were.

Personally I've had the best result with the Mindfulness Meditation, which as I recall was one part of DBT. Training my brain to stop endlessly thinking once in a while helped in the long run.

Another collection of helpful ideas is WRAP: Wellness Recovery Action Plan. In WRAP you get to make your own list of "Wellness Toolbox" ideas of what helps you. You can also make a list of what you want people to do to help you when you are not doing well. This list ultimately becomes useful to other people who want to help, but aren't really sure what helps you, because people are all different. There may be a WRAP class offered, but it's not required to do it in a group, it's just nice to be in a group doing things. It can also be done on your own. Just get the book. (I think it's $10. And there's a Workbook if you like. I just use blank lined paper.)

There is no magic panacea that works for everyone. Some people find insight in some things, others do not. Some people find some of the modules (is that what they were called? Parts?) helpful and other modules not so helpful, but I could see how they could be helpful to someone who didn't have that particular insight, or had problems with it.

I recall one part was the "Broken Record", where if you wanted something, you were supposed to ask for it (what a concept! But seriously, I think some people actually have problems with that, or it's a novel idea for them.) And you're supposed to be persistent (I guess some people just give up immediately the moment they meet any resistance, or are told their needs and wants don't count.) However, on the other hand, being persistent could sound like just a whiny child who wants something and won't stop asking for it even though it's not good for them, or there's some reason or other they can't have it.

Anyway, I decided in hindsight I just liked being in a group, so DBT was a group, and it didn't really matter what we did in the group, it was the being in a group where I was accepted that was really what helped me. It didn't matter that half of the DBT stuff really wasn't useful to me, because it was the being in the group that was useful for me. As long as I felt I was a part of the group, that's what ultimately helped heal my brain.

I'm guessing being in a group is like being with one's tribe. I'm guessing the unconscious midbrain thinks, "I'm with my tribe. Everything must be OK. I'll relax more."

So I still go to groups, and I notice it does seem to help me feel better, like I'm getting in my quota of socialization that I need. Doesn't really matter what the group does, as long as it does it together.

Hi Del,
Thank you for the thoughtful reply. I get what you're saying-that being in a group feels beyter. But I'm in DBT to learn DBT and the group experience is a secondary benefit for me. The main thing for me is to learn skills. (Besides I'm not necessarily as comfortable in the program to call it a "tribe")

The group curriculum is divided by 2 modules for 12 weeks and another 2 modules the next 12 weeks and then it rotates; so we are doing 2 out of 4 modules-emotional regulation and interpersonal effectiveness. We are starting with emotional regulation.

I am taking a different group on mindfulness that I'm enrolled in and theres a different group on WRAP that I'm not in bit the program offers it. However I have some idea of WRAP-it is like a safety plan for crisis and I've done at least a dozen of pre-set worksheets like that over the last 4 years and many more unofficial plans.
It sounds to me that WRAP falls under the module called "distress tolerance"

I'm talking about a specific module called emotional regulation. Not any of the other stuff.
   
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Re: DBT - September 15th 2017, 03:24 AM

I had horrible DBT therapists. I saw 2 DBT therapists and they all sucked and did things I felt they shouldn't have done. They did a lot of things that didn't help and they did a lot of things they shouldn't have said and done. It didn't help me and seemed to be way too much for me. It didn't help me also because the DBT therapists SUCKED. They just hurt me and left me. When I was in DBT I also felt very stigma. Also when I was in DBT I felt the therapist was only looking at me as borderline instead of me.

I feel it may have helped me if the therapist was good but all therapists seem to suck and not do their job properly. I have seen regular therapists too and they suck too. All just hurt me and leave me. It really sucks I can't get the help I need because therapists don't do their job well/properly.
   
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Re: DBT - September 15th 2017, 01:05 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by lauridoglover View Post
I had horrible DBT therapists. I saw 2 DBT therapists and they all sucked and did things I felt they shouldn't have done. They did a lot of things that didn't help and they did a lot of things they shouldn't have said and done. It didn't help me and seemed to be way too much for me. It didn't help me also because the DBT therapists SUCKED. They just hurt me and left me. When I was in DBT I also felt very stigma. Also when I was in DBT I felt the therapist was only looking at me as borderline instead of me.

I feel it may have helped me if the therapist was good but all therapists seem to suck and not do their job properly. I have seen regular therapists too and they suck too. All just hurt me and leave me. It really sucks I can't get the help I need because therapists don't do their job well/properly.
I'm sorry you've had such bad experiences. Definitely not helpful when we are trying to get better and improve.

the thing with bpd being a personality disorder is that it can be hard to distinguish between "you" and "the illness" Even more so than an average psychiatric disorder because there's usually developmental foundations that started in childhood and the basis of the illness is that we have an unstable identity.
Still though, a professional should know better and not specialize in a therapy that is meant for bpd treatment if they cannot handle it.

There is definitely stigma among professionals, even mental health Professionals and especially personality disorders.
I've met social workers who were talking among themselves, complaining about their borderline patients! I think the look on my face gave away that I wasn't finding it okay. At the time I wasn't diagnosed with bpd but I've had the traits and I knew that and it felt personal. Well I took it personal being how sensitive I am...haha. but even I was upset they were making mean comments and if definitely triggered intense feelings. It about 11 months ago and it still bothers me! And the stigma I've been around, not necessarily towards me but being in that environment is painful on its own.

Just hearing your story, makes me very sad.


But on that note, my questions still have not been answered haha

Thank you for sharing what you did so far, but if you can answer any of my questions in the original post, I would bereally appreciate it. If not, that's totally fine too. I'm glad we can connect about a shared disorder. It is one of the more stigmatized mental illnesses out there and even professionals who are generally compassionate people will mistreat the borderline patients and that's awful because we are people too. It is important to spread awareness and band together in a community, in my opinion. When you turn I to We, illness becomes wellness
:3

I have what is probably "quiet" borderline, mixed in with ptsd, depression, GAD, social anxiety, bipolar II, OCD trsits, the list goes on

I've done EMDR and found it too intense so I stopped. DBT is right up there with intensity because of the practicing required for best results. It is like part of rewiring of the brain so people are no longer in chronic survival mode but it doesn't feel as invasive as EMDR does.

Because DBT is one of thosE therapies where you kind of make a toolbox of skills to carry around with you so next time you feel down, you can pull out a skill rather than unhealthy coping mechanism. It isn't so much of a talk therapy or other therapy where you process trauma. It is hands on and practical.
   
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Re: DBT - September 16th 2017, 06:49 AM

I unfortunately no longer have my DBT binder. I gave it to someone I thought it might help.

So I don't recall the details of the
emotional regulation module and what it said.

I've never figured out a foolproof solution to "Which reality is correct?"

As in, if I say it's an elephant, and everyone else tells me it's a giraffe, then I have a conundrum.

Do I go by votes? What if I'm the only person who believes the world is round, and everyone else says it's flat? Everyone else might be wrong. I might be the only person who understands correctly.

Sometimes I've noticed the discussion boils down to what authoritative person one believes, and the argument is, "My authority is better than your authority," meaning the person who told me the world is round is a better authority than the person who told everyone else the world is flat.

My only way out is to hope that the shape of the world isn't going to matter to me today. (Note to self: Don't buy a sailboat.)

That's pretty much the only way out I've been able to think of, is to hope that whatever it is I'm not sure of won't matter to me today.

Sorry about your father.

I often hear parents first try to be controlling, because they want to "fix" everything, and make sure everything is in it's proper place, and everything is done correctly, according to their version of "correct" And they want to control their children, and teach them to do everything "correctly," and it kind of depends on how uptight they are. The more uptight they are, the more uncomfortable they are with their life, the more they want to try and control everything and everyone, and be correct and perfect themselves.

But it doesn't work. Some parents eventually realize that, or they go to support groups where they hear that message week after week, that you can't control your kids, that it just injures them and damages them and makes them want to rebel and do the opposite and stuff, and the parents learn to let go, and stop trying to be controlling, and just admit it's beyond their control, (Step 1 of the 12 steps), and the parent slowly relaxes, and loosens up, and becomes more accepting of their kids as they are now, not as the parent wishes they would be in the future, and the dynamics of the relationship shifts, as the parent lets go, the son or daughter is able to come closer.


I also find, just having one person tell me I'm OK, really helps a lot, when I'm faced with someone else, who may not have ever met me, but has decided I'm a not OK person anyway, based on whatever misinformation they've heard, and I have to deal with that. I need someone to validate me and say I'm OK. Because I can have a dozen people say I'm OK, and one person say I'm not OK, and I'm tempted to believe that one person.

(So much for voting on whether I'm OK or not!)

(Gee my font changed and the color disappeared. Oh well.)

I also find that thinking about it too much doesn't help, and just makes me worse. I'm better off the less I think about it.

I also believe the brain can slowly change, and heal itself, given the chance, because I've experienced it so many times before. I'm sick, I get well. It seems like the world changes, but it's really just me.

So is someone purposely hurting me, or is someone being nice to me and it just hurts? I ultimately have to find someone else I can trust who can tell me. (That's why I like having a therapist. I tell them what's happening, and I'm counting on them to say something if I'm going astray, or if there's some danger ahead I'm not seeing, or if I'm boldly venturing into some risky but exciting adventure, I'm counting on them to reel me back in if I get in too deep. Or they're just someone I whine, bitch, and complain to. Or maybe I feel safer having them around. Actually recently having one really helped out with that incident where someone who has never met me decided I was a bad person and wanted to do something about it.)

I hope you can find someone you trust. Best wishes!
   
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