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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Vaccination - October 11th 2013, 02:25 PM

I've started to realize a very concerning trend in the past few years. More and more people are to hold and anti-vaccine view, despite the fact that vaccination is one of the most important medical procedures to date.

Anyway, I figured it would be a good idea to have a discussion thread about vaccinations, especially for those that need to be convinced that vaccines are safe and effective.

I hope that some myths about vaccination can be dispelled, but just to get the ball rolling, I'm just going to ask this: What is your view about vaccines?
   
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Re: Vaccination - October 11th 2013, 04:12 PM

I'm all for them. They protect individuals but as long as enough of the population are vaccinated then they can protect a whole society which is really important as there are those who can't get vaccinated even if they wanted to.

Yes there are risks with vaccinations but there are risks with all forms of medication and generally if the vaccination has been deemed safe to use on the public then it's because the benefits of it have outweighed any associated risks. Usually the risks are so rare that 99% of the population will be fine with it but it's that 1% we hear about in all the scare stories so it makes it seem like it's worse than it is.

I'm totally considering going into a career of researching and developing vaccines so I hope one day all the myths about vaccines will be gone.
   
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Re: Vaccination - October 11th 2013, 05:19 PM

The main reason why people are against vaccinations is the fact, that some bacterias and viruses tend to develop different species, that are not detected and fought against with an organism vaccinated. I think vaccinations are extremely important - hell, thanks to them smallpox has been eradicated.


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Re: Vaccination - October 11th 2013, 07:45 PM

I think that vaccines are really important. Of course, they don't protect against everything, but before I started getting vaccinated for certain things regularly, I'd get sick A LOT and that's slowed down quite a bit. So I have only had good experiences and plan on continuing to get vaccinated.


   
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Re: Vaccination - October 11th 2013, 08:42 PM

I think they're fantastic. The media likes to put out scare stories about the one person in two hundred thousand that developed an allergic reaction and died. Ultimately, if there's a chance it will save your life, it's absolutely worth it.
And this is coming from a serious needle phobic.


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Re: Vaccination - October 11th 2013, 10:17 PM

I was at the drug store today and the cashier pulls a paper out, puts int on the counter. Starts talking about the Flu shot being held at the back...

I was slightly annoyed because I was busy paying for my things to worry about anything else. I don't get vaccinations. The only shot I will get the every 10 years one, that's all.

I don't need my immune system to crash when another infection of that (flu, etc.) being released into my system, which I am perfectly healthy.

However, some vaccinations are required, like when you're traveling, when you have a new born he/she needs their shots, etc..


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Re: Vaccination - October 13th 2013, 03:15 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alergnon View Post
I was at the drug store today and the cashier pulls a paper out, puts int on the counter. Starts talking about the Flu shot being held at the back...

I was slightly annoyed because I was busy paying for my things to worry about anything else. I don't get vaccinations. The only shot I will get the every 10 years one, that's all.

I don't need my immune system to crash when another infection of that (flu, etc.) being released into my system, which I am perfectly healthy.

However, some vaccinations are required, like when you're traveling, when you have a new born he/she needs their shots, etc..
I don't think you understand vaccinations if you mean what I think you do.
   
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Re: Vaccination - October 13th 2013, 03:09 PM

I think vaccinations are great, but I don't normally get the flu shot. I don't really get sick easily, so I don't worry about getting that one. But everything else I get!


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Re: Vaccination - October 13th 2013, 05:44 PM

Here's the deal about the flu shot. It's important for people to get it because of herd immunity. Sure, maybe you won't catch it, but you can still be a carrier. Now lets say you come into contact with somebody that has a suppressed immune system which makes them unable to get the flu shot.

BAM

They get the flu. Their immune system is already suppressed, so it affects them more. We need the herd immunity to keep these illnesses at check.

Of course, there's way more to it than that, but you shouldn't avoid the flu shot simply because "you don't get sick". The flu is a dangerous thing, and the health of others is a good reason to get it too.
   
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Re: Vaccination - October 14th 2013, 12:50 PM

I'm against them.

My opinion is that they are not an important medical procedure. There are too many chemicals inside of them, and they cause you to be ill when you might never have been at all. They've been known to cause autism in perfectly normal children, though researchers refuse to look further into the matter or document the fallacies of their medicines. This isn't to say that some of the more important vaccines should be ignored - the ones that protect against more than the seasonal flu. Personally, when I have children, I will make certain they avoid flu shots altogether, and I will avoid them myself. I've had the flu fewer times than anyone I know, and I've never suffered through the aftereffects of one in my entire life, because my own parents never saw the point in them.

This probably won't be a popular post, but I really dislike the idea that pointless vaccinations should be forced upon children and people in general. It's ludicrous.


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Re: Vaccination - October 14th 2013, 03:12 PM

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Originally Posted by SemperExpectantes. View Post
I'm against them.

My opinion is that they are not an important medical procedure. There are too many chemicals inside of them, and they cause you to be ill when you might never have been at all. They've been known to cause autism in perfectly normal children, though researchers refuse to look further into the matter or document the fallacies of their medicines. This isn't to say that some of the more important vaccines should be ignored - the ones that protect against more than the seasonal flu. Personally, when I have children, I will make certain they avoid flu shots altogether, and I will avoid them myself. I've had the flu fewer times than anyone I know, and I've never suffered through the aftereffects of one in my entire life, because my own parents never saw the point in them.

This probably won't be a popular post, but I really dislike the idea that pointless vaccinations should be forced upon children and people in general. It's ludicrous.
They are an important medical procedure, it's how smallpox was eradicated and they're working on getting rid of polio currently.

The chemicals in them are safe to be used, otherwise they wouldn't do it. There's a lot of evidence to back up the safety of these chemicals. There have been a few mistakes regarding vaccine use (such as a boy being given a live polio vaccine instead of the dead one) but these are very rare. The only reason why we hear about them is because they're good news stories...nobody's going to publish "thousands get the flu vaccine, no deaths"

There is no reliable evidence saying they cause autism and the "doctor" who perpetuated these lies has since been removed from practicing medicine.

By not vaccinating yourself or your children you're putting other people in danger. For diseases like smallpox and polio to be eradicated there needs to be herd immunity. The percentage of the population needed for herd immunity to be in effect depends on the disease, I think for polio it's around 80% of the population. You're also putting your children at risk - the measles vaccine for example : If you vaccinate your child there's a 1 in 1 million chance of them contracting encephalitis and dying BUT if you don't vaccinate your child and they get measles there's 1 in 1000 chance of them dying from it.
   
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Re: Vaccination - October 14th 2013, 03:40 PM

I'm not sure exactly how I feel about them.

I mean, I get a flu shot every year, and I'm aware that they might cause bad things to happen, but I still think we need them.

But I'm not gonna lie, I've been more cautious about flu shots after my grandmother died last year of Guyon Barre Syndrome - a disease she developed two days later after getting a flu shot.

So, I'm not sure if I'm for them or against them...it's definitely a tough call!


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Re: Vaccination - October 14th 2013, 05:55 PM

I don't have a problem with vaccines. In fact, I think vaccines are a good thing. For some people, vaccines help make people's lives a bit easier and helps immune their bodies from diseases/viruses for a certain period of time.




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Re: Vaccination - October 14th 2013, 09:07 PM

I agree with Anna, so I guess I'll be unpopular too, but everything she's said resonates with what I think too. So yeah. When my cousin found out my viewpoint, she pretty much sent me tons of articles about how I'm a bad apple and ruining it for rest of society, because I wouldn't get myself or "children" (she made references to my non existent children lol) vaccinated. I don't get why she cares so much, it all sounds fishy, especially since she lives miles away.
Unfortunately I got vaccines when I was a wee kid and I didn't know any better. That sucks.
   
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Re: Vaccination - October 15th 2013, 03:44 AM

As someone with a non existent immune system I NEED vaccinations. And honestly people who are healthy can be selfish from my perspective about those things, it's like yeah you might be fine good on you, but what about us with compromised immune systems. If you get sick even though you might recover quickly, you pass on it on to me and I'm really sick/could die so thanks. I'd also just like to point out I've never had any bad reactions to any vaccinations and I've had so many in my life. Yeah I might get a sore arm, but then again everyone in my family get the same injections and I'm the only one who gets that so maybe I've just got a weaker pain tolerance but other then that no problems.


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Re: Vaccination - October 15th 2013, 08:52 AM

One thing to say is that most of the people who have the "flu" do not have the flu and instead have food poisoning or a cold. The flu is horrible. I will always get the flu shot and all my other shots. I have seen a baby on a vent due to whooping cough. Another baby could not drink a bottle because every time they went to drink, they had a coughing fit and would choke on the formula.

The 2nd baby was too young to get the vaccine by two weeks.

Quote:
I don't need my immune system to crash when another infection of that (flu, etc.) being released into my system, which I am perfectly healthy.
You don't get the flu from the vaccines.
Quote:
My opinion is that they are not an important medical procedure. There are too many chemicals inside of them, and they cause you to be ill when you might never have been at all.
Mild side effects vs the flu, whooping cough etc? I've done my clinicals on a peds floor and a significant portion of my job is triaging patients in an ER, I encourage people to get the shots. Having worked through flu season last year, it made me frustrated when parents would whine that they did not understand that their super special child could get the flu. Never mind that they send their child to school and take him out in public. So yes, now your child will scream and beg now because we need an IV.
   
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Re: Vaccination - October 16th 2013, 02:58 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperExpectantes. View Post
I'm against them.
My opinion is that they are not an important medical procedure.
Well, I hope you explain why

Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperExpectantes. View Post
There are too many chemicals inside of them
Oh, okay. Here's where it starts. There are too many "chemicals" in them. I think you'll have to be a little more specific. Technically, everything is made of "chemicals". Dihydrogen Monoxide is a chemcial that's used as fire retardant, yet it's put in our food. I mean, I'm just joking around here. DHMO is just water. I just used to to show how much of a buzz word chemicals is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperExpectantes. View Post
and they cause you to be ill when you might never have been at all.
Yeah, it's true. Sometimes you might get a mild form of the flu when you get the flu shot. It's a weakened strain, and it's a rare side effect. It's better than actually dying from the full blown flu, and it's better than spreading it to people that are immune suppressed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperExpectantes. View Post
They've been known to cause autism in perfectly normal children, though researchers refuse to look further into the matter or document the fallacies of their medicines.
You mean according to Andrew Wakefield's 1998 study? The one that's been retracted? The one that has had the majority of the people involved publically say that information was falsified? There is no causal link between Autism and vaccines. Even if there was an increase in Autism due to vaccines (which there isn't), that's a small price to pay for lifesaving vaccinations.

By the way, if there was an obvious link found, there would be many researchers trying to eliminate sources of error to verify the original study's findings.

As far as the "fallacies of medicine", I have no idea what you're talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperExpectantes. View Post
This isn't to say that some of the more important vaccines should be ignored - the ones that protect against more than the seasonal flu. Personally, when I have children, I will make certain they avoid flu shots altogether
How is the seasonal flu vaccine not one of the more important ones? In case you didn't know, people die from the flu. Quite regularly, in fact.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperExpectantes. View Post
This probably won't be a popular post, but I really dislike the idea that pointless vaccinations should be forced upon children and people in general. It's ludicrous.
I really dislike the idea that kids can go to a public school unvaccinated, because they could be carriers of dangerous diseases. I really dislike that diseases such as whooping cough and measles are making a comeback in areas that are so opposed to vaccination. It's disturbing that health care workers in hospitals can opt out of certain vaccinations as long as they cover their mouth with a surgical mask.

I'm don't mean to be so blunt, but I am starting to see more and more misinformation from people that don't even understand the subject, and that frustrates me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FollowTheSpyder View Post
I agree with Anna, so I guess I'll be unpopular too, but everything she's said resonates with what I think too. So yeah. When my cousin found out my viewpoint, she pretty much sent me tons of articles about how I'm a bad apple and ruining it for rest of society, because I wouldn't get myself or "children" (she made references to my non existent children lol) vaccinated. I don't get why she cares so much, it all sounds fishy, especially since she lives miles away.
Unfortunately I got vaccines when I was a wee kid and I didn't know any better. That sucks.
I am guessing that you were not convinced for a very good reason. Ask a expert in biology about how vaccines work, and maybe you can learn a bit more. Who knows. Maybe it will just help to confirm the view that you have in your mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarasa View Post
One thing to say is that most of the people who have the "flu" do not have the flu and instead have food poisoning or a cold. The flu is horrible. I will always get the flu shot and all my other shots. I have seen a baby on a vent due to whooping cough. Another baby could not drink a bottle because every time they went to drink, they had a coughing fit and would choke on the formula.

The 2nd baby was too young to get the vaccine by two weeks.


You don't get the flu from the vaccines.

Mild side effects vs the flu, whooping cough etc? I've done my clinicals on a peds floor and a significant portion of my job is triaging patients in an ER, I encourage people to get the shots. Having worked through flu season last year, it made me frustrated when parents would whine that they did not understand that their super special child could get the flu. Never mind that they send their child to school and take him out in public. So yes, now your child will scream and beg now because we need an IV.
Whooping cough is such a frustrating one, because now you can't just settle for one dose anymore. Although I can't understand your frustration with seeing kids denied necessary medical treatments, I can understand what it is like to deal with anti-vaccer parents. Some of them just can't be convinced.

However, I think they're the minority, and I am optimistic that simply providing the information to some people would be enough to convince them. There's just not enough of the right information out there...
   
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Re: Vaccination - October 16th 2013, 05:43 AM

I'm sorry, but those against vaccinations, please do a little more research on sites that's not "thetruthaboutvaccines.com" or something sketch, but instead, the CDC or research papers. There is not to little scientific evidence that backs up your claims, there are only conspiracy theories. "Big Pharma" isn't trying to scam you into sickness, vaccinations save lives. Remember that by not getting vaccinated, you put others with weak immune systems, such as babies, at risk. The flu and whopping cough are awful, but they only make us sick for 7-14 days...they can kill others. Please do your research.


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Re: Vaccination - October 17th 2013, 12:24 AM

Oi, I don't like debating. I was just sharing my opinion.

I don't plan on changing my mind, so please don't try.

Thank you.


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Re: Vaccination - October 21st 2013, 07:53 PM

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Oi, I don't like debating. I was just sharing my opinion.

I don't plan on changing my mind, so please don't try.

Thank you.
The only downside with posting information in this forum is that someone may take it seriously and change their own opinion to reflect your own because you're stating claims that are not true. They do not cause autism in children and the doctor who posted the study lost his license in England/not sure how they divide the medical license boards up over the falsified study. Then you sound paranoid when you say that researchers need to look deeper into it.

Also, most of the people who get "the flu" do not have the flu. I see people who think they have the flu all the time but it's actually food poisoning or some other virus or bacteria causing it. The flu refers to a specific set of viruses. There is no such thing as a 24 hour flu.

So while it is your opinion, it is not right to state incorrect information like vaccines causes autism.
   
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Re: Vaccination - October 21st 2013, 10:42 PM

I've been vaccinated, as it is standard procedure in public schools. I had gotten the flu shot almost every year up until last year. Guess what? I got sick three times in one month (February 2012). That was the flu, a vomit bug and a cold. I hadn't had the flu for years up until then. And I got it the one year I didn't get vaccinated. I'll be sure to get it this year, whether people are in my way saying that I'm a sinner for getting it or not.




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Re: Vaccination - October 22nd 2013, 03:25 AM

Vaccines in general are a very useful tool for fighting infectious disease propagation. That said, I find them very unpleasant to receive, even as an adult. The TDaP vaccine (tetanus, diptheria, pertussis) I got a few years back gave me a fever and nearly immobilized my arm for a few days. Next time I'll probably get them separately (damn the cost-cutting measures), but those types of immunizations are very important to receive. Polio, measles, smallpox, etc. are great success stories, but the flu vaccine has been next to useless so far. I don't get flu shots, even as a diabetic, because they just don't protect against enough strains to warrant the cost, discomfort, and slight risks of an allergy or other reaction. The one year I did get one I ended up contracting the swine flu, ran a fever of 106 and was admitted to the ER.

On the autism thing: Andrew Wakefield was the only researcher who published a peer-reviewed journal linking vaccines to autism, IIRC. He was later discredited and the article has been retracted. Essentially the guy chose at-risk children, vaccinated them with the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine and then found a "significant correlation" when they became autistic. -_- And yes, that vaccine is important. It was originally controversial because it included a small amount of mercury, which I believe has since been replaced with a less toxic substitute.



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Re: Vaccination - October 24th 2013, 12:22 PM

Also, not all mercuries are the same. It's like alcohol. Drink ethanol and you'll get drunk, drink methanol and you're probably going to be blind if not dead.
   
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Re: Vaccination - October 24th 2013, 03:07 PM

Quote:
I don't need my immune system to crash when another infection of that (flu, etc.) being released into my system, which I am perfectly healthy.
I don't think you understand how these work.

Vaccines contain a virus (or bacteria) that has either been weakened, or, more often, killed. It is still enough to create an immune response, and your body will produce antibodies, but they will NOT give you a disease. Now, live vaccines (which, again, are weakened) CAN give you minor side effects. For example, the live flu vaccine can cause a minor cold for a few days, and the chicken pox vaccine can cause a rash. This is not the same as your immune system crashing. You encounter a LOT of antigens every day. A few more is not going to crash anything.


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Gender: Male
Location: Alberta, Canada

Posts: 1,575
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Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: Vaccination - October 24th 2013, 11:31 PM

I am personally all for vaccinations, I however can't get them because I have an immune disorder which I take immunosuppressants for and thus aren't allowed to receive vaccinations unless I stop taking my medication first.
I have nothing else to add that someone else hasn't already said.
But other than that, go vaccines!


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