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View Poll Results: Do you support autonomous vehicle technology?
Yes. 11 84.62%
No. 2 15.38%
Voters: 13. You may not vote on this poll

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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Driverless Cars. - August 3rd 2016, 06:33 AM

Thoughts?

I do not have any concerns about issues like hacking and computer confusion and trust the programmers with their own jobs. However, the qualm I have is the social issues that are associated with it. It seems to me that the greatest Defense of driverless cars is that humans are vulnerable and that computers do not get drunk, distracted or tired. In the case, perhaps I should have a robot do my assignments for me, they do not procrastinate. Actually teaching people to drive properly and take the power seriously would be a far superior strategy than rendering human beings entirely incapable of the craft and allow them to text and drink to their heart's content.

Advocates for this technology are not wrong, but they are insufficiently right, and it fuels the culture of not taking driving seriously to begin with.


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Re: Driverless Cars. - August 3rd 2016, 07:07 AM

I can't drive because of my vision and another disability. Once they have the bugs worked out, I have no problem with this. It would mean a lot more independence and freedom for me and other people with disabilities who can't drive and don't live near public transportation (it's more accessible in other countries) and even with that we're dependent on someone else to get us somewhere and it can be less than reliable.

To your point about irresponsible driving culture: Education doesn't seem to be working, and you can only drive the don't drive and do XYZ because something bad can happen point home so many times and people are going to do what they're going to do anyway. Maybe it will be safer, but not everyone who wants a driverless car wants to use it as an excuse to do stupid or irresponsible things.


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Re: Driverless Cars. - August 3rd 2016, 07:42 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadioSerenade View Post
It seems to me that the greatest Defense of driverless cars is that humans are vulnerable and that computers do not get drunk, distracted or tired. In the case, perhaps I should have a robot do my assignments for me, they do not procrastinate. Actually teaching people to drive properly and take the power seriously would be a far superior strategy than rendering human beings entirely incapable of the craft and allow them to text and drink to their heart's content.

Advocates for this technology are not wrong, but they are insufficiently right, and it fuels the culture of not taking driving seriously to begin with.
Truthfully (don't be offended, it's a bit satirical), your comment sounds a lot to me like some of my old-school university lecturers ranting about how we only have "fake engineers" graduating these days because of all the computer technology aiding design, which they didn't have in the "good ol' days".

I like to think in logical steps, without any sentiment attached. So my opinion is quite simple:

What's the point of driving? To get from A to B, safely (although working on the "safety" aspect still).

Driver-less cars do just that. And you can even fall asleep on the motorway.

Would I feel safe/secure using a driver-less car? I doubt it. No rational reason though. It's a new technology. Same reason I didn't upgrade to Windows 10. I don't trust it.
____________________________

If your concern is teaching people to drive properly to begin with, then there are other underlying issues. Trust me, I have big problems with irresponsible drivers doing doughnuts on roundabouts and that sort of shit. But people like that usually are like that not so much because they "don't take driving seriously". It's more because of an overall attitude towards life. It's cultural.
That sort of driving annoys me about as much, as the occasional douche in McDonald's who leaves his tray behind just to show how "alpha" he is by littering the space around him. They just don't give a shit. They think everything is "someone else's problem". It's not always the case, but I'm pretty sure most of the time it is.

This is somewhat related to a person's empathy and how much they consider their actions to have an impact on other people around them. I don't find it coincidental that men behind the wheel tend to cause far more serious accidents (men average lower empathy scores than women). But like I said, it is also cultural. Some people from some cultures tend to be more apathetic. Empathy in people is strongly correlated with geographical regions and their social stability, and also very strongly correlated with road death statistics. I've looked this up. The worst drivers in the world, are all in Africa (road accident statistics)... not coincidentally, the most unstable continent throughout most of history. Hostile environments breed a "dog-eat-dog" culture where many people learn to look after just themselves, and perhaps close family.

I'm simplifying all these things maybe too much, but I don't want to write too much either. Law enforcement and teaching people how to drive, obviously factors in, both which are significantly absent in less developed countries. My judgements are generally based off a smaller sample of people, within Europe... where generally driving schools and law enforcement meet similar enough standards across the continent... yet drivers in Eastern Europe make me just not want to drive at all. Especially on Sundays, when everyone is coming back from their family reunions on narrow inter-regional roads (1 lane in each direction) going at least 100kmph. Talking from personal experience here, on Sundays, you will probably witness a serious accident (can only be serious at 100kmph) every 50-100km on such roads. People on Sundays drive as if they're fleeing the Russian invasion or a hurricane. I don't even want to be in the back seat. I've had enough near misses. I take the train. (P.S. they don't drive better on motorways, just faster, so road conditions don't matter much)

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Re: Driverless Cars. - August 3rd 2016, 09:49 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by RadioSerenade View Post
TActually teaching people to drive properly and take the power seriously would be a far superior strategy than rendering human beings entirely incapable of the craft and allow them to text and drink to their heart's content.

Advocates for this technology are not wrong, but they are insufficiently right, and it fuels the culture of not taking driving seriously to begin with.
The biggest flaw in that line of thinking is that you're not taking into account those who may have disabilities such as eyesight, dyslexia, those who struggle with the ability to determine left and right, those who have physical problems but do not qualify for a care/support worker and so on. I do see your point and sure it may make people more 'lazy' but I think as of right now the benefits of a driverless car can severely outweigh those negatives.

I'm 25 and I still haven't learnt to drive. I've never been diagnosed with any reading/understanding issues but it's not as though my problems haven't been noticed by other people, not just family and friends but those beyond that as they recognise there is 'something'. While the healthcare where I live is... ok.. the waiting list for me to push for a diagnosis is so strong that I could be waiting a fair few years. That's a lot of my early years waiting and I'm not prepared to do that. I've just accepted that I struggle to read sentences and paragraphs from time to time, that I struggle with my left and right, that I have a severe problem with my sense of direction and have accepted that me being in a car will put other drivers at risk. There's adequate amounts of help and support in getting disabled people from A to B, but there isn't at longer distances, or for people who are disabled but need to search further afield for a better job than the one they currently hold. This is where driverless cars become a blessing.


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Re: Driverless Cars. - August 3rd 2016, 03:29 PM

I'm torn on this issue. While I can see some issues, such as the accidents that have already occurred from self driving cars due to software errors and such, I'm also someone who would benefit greatly from having one. I do not think they should be used for passengers to not pay attention, I think they should allow a driver to take control if needed such as the car that thought part of a semi-truck was the sky and drove directly into it.

I have medical reasons preventing me from driving. This makes it almost impossible to get a job, especially if I ever want to live alone. Where I live does not have decent public transportation, and the few areas that have it would require me to walk fairly large distances in extreme heat. Something I also cannot medically do. A self driving car would be absolutely life changing for me.

Drivers who would no longer take driving seriously, don't take it seriously now. I think a lot of the potential issues are not actually from the cars but rather other issues we need to deal with. Basically what BDF said. I think that the benefits for people like myself and others who are unable to drive or unable to drive long distances outweigh the negatives. I also think it's unfair to withhold something that can make a disabled person's life better just because some people are idiots.



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Re: Driverless Cars. - August 3rd 2016, 10:36 PM

I think this would be great for people with disabilities if they would be allowed to utilize them.

I don't have a disability but I dissociate from time to time. Sometimes it's so bad that I literally can't drive and I have to put off what I had planned for the day. I've missed a few doctors appointments because of this. If I had a car like this I could still go out at times like this.

Personally, I don't think people are taking responsibility in regards to drinking and driving. They still do it. They don't care about the consequences and if something like this were available less people would get hurt because of someone making a stupid decision. The education in regards to drinking and driving isn't working and so maybe something like this would help prevent accidents.

But, I honestly don't know if I'd feel comfortable trusting a computer to drive for me.


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Re: Driverless Cars. - August 4th 2016, 12:38 AM

What I find most interesting is the ethical side of it. How will these driverless cars make judgement calls - and who decides which calls are correct? For example, say the car responds to a potential hazard: a dog on the road. The car swerves to avoid it, and because it's set doing that task, it doesn't react in time to avoid another obstacle... this time a person crossing the road. Should there be a way for the "driver" to override this if they judge that the protocol isn't appropriate? Like I said, I find this part more interesting than issues of reliance on technology or lack of education.


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Re: Driverless Cars. - August 4th 2016, 09:48 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargulf View Post
What I find most interesting is the ethical side of it. How will these driverless cars make judgement calls - and who decides which calls are correct? For example, say the car responds to a potential hazard: a dog on the road. The car swerves to avoid it, and because it's set doing that task, it doesn't react in time to avoid another obstacle... this time a person crossing the road. Should there be a way for the "driver" to override this if they judge that the protocol isn't appropriate? Like I said, I find this part more interesting than issues of reliance on technology or lack of education.
Easy solution: introduce international legislation to ban all dogs in public spaces, impose fines on their owners, and charge them with attempted dogslaughter.

#Flawed_logic

More seriously, I imagine it will be possible for the driver to override controls at any time they feel like it. I doubt however that a human driver's reaction times would be enough to prevent that sort of accident. Human reaction times would probably be slower.

Besides, the scenario you describe really occurs very rarely. And teaching the on-board computer to avoid dogs... I'm not sure this is very practical. I don't know how the technology works in detail, but I imagine it recognizes objects of certain dimensions which are moving on the road, and classifies them as either obstacles, or traffic.

What did nearly happen to me once when I was driving, was a 3 year old kid who got away from his mother running across the road and having his arms about. If you're going to teach the on-board computer to prioritize human life over dogs, then how effectively will it differentiate between a dog and a small child of similar proportions? What if it recognizes children and dogs, as the same "object", and opts to run the "dog" over (which turns out to be a kid), instead of someone/something else.

P.S. I didn't run the kid over.

P.S. There is this stray dog in my neighborhood who always crosses on the zebra. I've seen it several times. Dog owners should train their dogs to do the same.

Another point about the on-board computer in driver-less cars. I imagine it is programmed to follow all the rules of the road. No speeding. No overtaking at junctions. No running red lights. I have never had even slight problems breaking in time, when driving at the speed limit. I doubt the computer would either.

Roads are designed in a variety of ways, and speed limits set to what they are, for good reasons. If you have a curved road with a speed limit of 50km/h and poor visibility due to obstructing buildings, and someone is joining it from a side road, looks left and right first, does everything correctly.... yet there is another driver already on the main road, doing 60km/h... that 10km/h makes a lot of difference suddenly. Now, this is a situation that occurs much more frequently. Driver-less cars wouldn't make those kinds of errors. This is just one, of many contexts.

P.S. I'm enrolled on a Civil Engineering course, although not specialized in road-design, I've had several modules on the topic. Speed limits aren't there for "lols" or giving fines to motorists like a lot of people think.

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Then politics doesn't care about you either. Truth. You've got to make your voice heard, if you want to be listened to. But that's too logical for some people, so let me go a step further. Not making your voice heard, leaves other people free to hijack it by speaking on your behalf, even if they don't actually give a shit about you. That's politics. So, make your voice heard. That's not a quote from anywhere. That's just me.



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Re: Driverless Cars. - August 4th 2016, 01:40 PM

Absolutely 100%. What I don't trust is human drivers.


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Re: Driverless Cars. - August 4th 2016, 09:46 PM

No

Because lately, they have been having a lot of issues and accidents and deaths, etc.

And, with all that technology fails now days or has "issues" it's not worth your money

So, just stating my opinion.

Let me know if you need anything.

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Re: Driverless Cars. - August 5th 2016, 12:56 AM

I think some of the bigger issues is the cost and could there be a mixing of human and computer driven cars? What if something on the system fails? Can it adjust for horrible road conditions?


I am not for it at the moment. I have a "smart" 4 wheel drive car and it is unsafe in bad weather around my house. I use my older jeep where I can control the 4 wheel drive. 10 feet of ice/snow and 10 feet of dry road means the smart 4 wheel drive gets confused and doesn't kick in fast enough.
   
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Re: Driverless Cars. - August 5th 2016, 06:39 AM

I think it's a good idea but it needs to be fine tuned and have laws in place regarding who is allowed to use it (like people with vision impairments because you still need to be able to see what's going on around you) or laws about no using phones/etc behind the wheel even if the car is driving.
My dad's car has autopilot and you need to be in an area that has lanes that are clearly marked for it to work. It's really weird to see the wheel turn itself and it takes some getting used to but the lane changes with a hit of the signal is weird. The autopilot doesn't work as well if it's raining that hard but my dad only uses it if he's going out of the city (since it's electric and doesn't use gas) otherwise he uses his other car in the city.
   
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Re: Driverless Cars. - August 5th 2016, 09:11 AM

Very torn on this issue. I can see it being a great success for people with disability, older people etc as it creates such an opportunity for independence and autonomy. It also means anyone can drive anytime, for example if you've been on a night out you can get home without worrying about a taxi or having to not drink etc. But it also scares me, as the thought of a computer controlling a car is quite worrying, as it just can't have the same perception and reactions as a human, and roads are just so changeable, anything could happen.

So I can see the benefits but I also think it's quite dangerous


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