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Should Aboriginals Get Special Treatment in Today's Society? - October 23rd 2009, 11:10 PM

First Nations people don't have to pay taxes, they don't have to obey hunting or fishing laws, and they get cheap housing on reserves. All because of treaties that were violated back in the colonial days. Are the descendants of the natives getting a free ride?

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Re: Should Aboriginals Get Special Treatment in Today's Society? - October 24th 2009, 01:34 AM

In Canada, the Aboriginal reserves are somewhat mixed, some are absolute crap with rape, drug abuse, etc... being common whereas others are a lot more technologically-advanced. I view it that although they may be our ancestors before the Europeans came over, I feel that they're just riding our coat-tails because they're not doing anything. There is treaty after treaty, policy after policy that are designed to be more environmentally-friendly, however, they're making work up in the northern areas a lot harder than it needs to be with involving the Aboriginals even if you don't want to. Hell, you may have to hire some of them if need be due to some of the policies.

In addition to all of this, they don't pay any taxes, they get to have free land, food, water, possibly free technologies and yet there are still negotiations with them to perhaps make their already easy life even easier. There's more land being given to them, more opportunities being given to them and yet there's still complaints with wanting to please them. I would have no problem with this if they would do something in return. Perhaps a few of them go on to lead successful lives, however, the majority of them on the reserves don't and so the question remains, why do we give them such gratuities when they haven't done a single thing for us in return? On top of that, numerous psychological and medical studies have been conducted on reserves and many of the researchers want to build certain programs to help the Aboriginals out. Many of these studies have shown that amazingly, they're not welcoming to the "white man" who are giving them all these luxuries.

I think they're already getting special treatment as it is and I see no reason as to why we should continue to help them until they do something in return, such as perhaps pay taxes.

I'll admit, they were treated rather awful years ago, however, times have changed, they're treated better now, they get luxuries that other people don't get unless they become homeless. They can find work up in the north as many do, pay taxes and then it'll be fairer but as it is, they're riding out coat-tails.
   
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Re: Should Aboriginals Get Special Treatment in Today's Society? - October 24th 2009, 05:59 AM

There are a lot of problems in the native community that stem from our country's past. I think what we need to do at this point is phase out all the "special treatment", and at the same time provide them with all the resources to deal with the issues their community faces.


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Re: Should Aboriginals Get Special Treatment in Today's Society? - October 24th 2009, 07:07 AM

I don't see much of a point in giving descendants things they had no part in back in the colonial days. After all, it wasn't the descendants who were harmed.
I shouln't have to pay for a mistake that someone else made. My ancestors weren't even a part of it, and I know other people that are the same way.
I'm sorry for what was done to them back in those days, but the natives now are ancestors - they didn't get the same treatment, and shouldn't get the same benefits. The treaty wasn't violated with -them-, but with their ancestors.


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Re: Should Aboriginals Get Special Treatment in Today's Society? - October 24th 2009, 01:37 PM

Hawaiians have been screwed out of their lands and rights for hundred years. They're currently fighting for the right to be callsed "natives" and recieve something, anything from the government. The U.S. taking of Hawaii was illegal and even though no one alive was there, the people it's affected deserve something. The same goes for almost all native cultures.


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Re: Should Aboriginals Get Special Treatment in Today's Society? - October 24th 2009, 05:56 PM

I think the natives should get their tax breaks, and hunt as much as they want... But they have to do it like their ancestors did. No guns, or boats. just rocks, and sticks, and maybe some string if they're lucky enough to make it themselves from natural resources. But if they want to use guns, boats, quads, fishing poles & Tackle, they should be held at the same legal level as us.

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Re: Should Aboriginals Get Special Treatment in Today's Society? - October 24th 2009, 06:08 PM

It annoys me a bit about how we can't move on from the past. Maybe my ancestors mistreated yours, that doesn't mean I mistreated you. I have no control over what happened before I was born(Okay, excluding if you believe in reincarnation but that's a different debate). I think that as long as we are treating each other differently, we're never going to be able to move on from racism.


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Re: Should Aboriginals Get Special Treatment in Today's Society? - October 24th 2009, 06:40 PM

I'd have to agree that Natives do not deserve special treatment in all cases other than the one mentioned in the title. The Australian Aboriginee have been mistreated appaullingly almost right up to modern day, in this case the decendants are effected directly especially by the lingering effects of "the stolen generation". They are likely to die 17 years earlier (or 11.5 years earlier accourding to a different report) than their white counterparts, they still receive worse education and the levels of disease and health problems in their community is stratospheric compared to white Australians. They are also twice as likely to be a victim of crime as a white Australian. Not to mention that they are ridiculously underrepresented in parliament with only 2 aboriginees having ever been elected. So they obviously practically need some extra special help, not to mention morally.

Last edited by Jack; October 25th 2009 at 02:21 PM. Reason: Typo
   
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Re: Should Aboriginals Get Special Treatment in Today's Society? - October 25th 2009, 03:32 AM

A good portion of the freebies they're getting now are due to the aftermath of residential schools, and those aren't exactly something from our distant past. The last one closed in 1996 - that`s within pretty much everyone on this site`s lifetime. Children were taken from their families in order to force assimilation, and then forbidden to do things like speak their language, practice their religion, or see their families for years at a time. Some families were never reconciled. They were kept in horrid conditions and abused sexually, physically and mentally by priests and nuns. Overcrowding, lack of sanitation and little medical care led to death rates as high as 69%, and there`s allegations that some schools actively tried to spread disease among the children.

After they were sufficiently screwed up by these disgusting insitutions (which were government funded, and for many years, mandatory by law) they were sent back to their homes. In most cases, they had no training in parenting, minimal training in any employable skill, and no support for their disturbed psychological state. They married and had children, and not surprisingly, had difficult parenting them. They tended to parent in the same manner they had been `parented` in the residential schools - that is, they punished them physically for misbheaving and continued the cycle of sexual abuse. Often they`d console themselves with alcohol, and so did their children. Violence and assault became common place on reserves. This pattern was repeated for generations.

You`re right, they get cheap housing on reserves. Awesome. Maybe we should add that most women on reserves have been sexually assaulted. Most people have been physically assaulted. Alcoholism is rampant. There are very few prospects in education or career on reserves. Health care is awful. Their culture is in shambles, and elders are desperately trying to teach the younger generation their language and traditions. Pretty much all the problems being experienced on reserves right now can be linked to the Canadian government`s attempt to wipe out their culture. We practically destroyed them - we sure as hell are obliged to help them repair the damage that`s been done.


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Re: Should Aboriginals Get Special Treatment in Today's Society? - October 25th 2009, 09:06 AM

In short - no. I don't think that they should get special treatment. They all harp about equal rights when here, for the most part, they have A LOT more rights than we do.

I have nothing against the aboriginal people, but it's quite ridiculous.



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Re: Should Aboriginals Get Special Treatment in Today's Society? - October 25th 2009, 09:45 PM

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The last one closed in 1996 - that`s within pretty much everyone on this site`s lifetime.
So being alive during that time makes us directly responsible? I was 3 years old in 1996. I couldn't have done anything.

I also think you're exaggerating quite a bit. Yes, maybe some aboriginal people did face the horrible circumstances you described. People of other races get sexually assaulted too. Does that mean it doesn't matter because they're white? I have a close friend who is native and her family hasn't been treated the way you described.

While I do support preserving their culture(I find it very interesting) that's not the only problem in the world right now. Not to mention, segregating races isn't going to solve any racism problems. I support equality.


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Re: Should Aboriginals Get Special Treatment in Today's Society? - October 26th 2009, 03:57 AM

Quote:
So being alive during that time makes us directly responsible? I was 3 years old in 1996. I couldn't have done anything.
No, it doesn't make you responsible. It makes our government responsible. The original post makes it sound as though every benefit given to aboriginals is due to events that occurred hundreds of years ago, and I'm pointing out that it's simply not true.

Quote:
I also think you're exaggerating quite a bit. Yes, maybe some aboriginal people did face the horrible circumstances you described. People of other races get sexually assaulted too. Does that mean it doesn't matter because they're white? I have a close friend who is native and her family hasn't been treated the way you described.
This is not in any way meant to be rude, but have you spent very much time learning about what the residential schools were, or about studies by psychologists and sociologists into their impacts, like residential school syndrome? Residential schools are unfortunately not taught as part of most Canadian history curriculums, and when they are, they're usually glossed over, so the large majority of Canadians just don't know what they were, or have very limited knowledge about them. Malnutrition and physical abuse were not minority, isolated incidents in residential schools - I'm not exaggerating. Sexual abuse was no minor incident either - there are class action lawsuits with dozens of former students seeking compensation. But even disregarding physical and sexual abuse, can the effect of thousands of children being forcibly taken from their families for over 100 years really be exaggerated? And I'm certainly not exaggerating how many children were forced from their families - there were laws for many years mandating that children be sent to these schools (which were always located hundreds of miles from their families), and parents were imprisoned and threatened when they tried to refuse their children being taken.

I never said anything close to "it doesn't matter if white people get sexually assaulted." However, it's hard to link high prevalency of sexual assault in caucasian Canadians to any one government institution, whereas many studies have the cycle of abuse found on aboriginal reserves originating with the residential school system. And I'm not quite sure what your point is by saying you have a friend who doesn't seem to have been impacted by residential schools. I have a homosexual friend who doesn't experience very much negativity due to his sexual orientation - does that imply that homosexuals overexaggerate the intolerance and homophobia they're subjected to? I somehow doubt it. Go to your university's indigenous studies department and ask the professors there about residential schools, or email them - I can pretty much guarantee they won't tell you that the effects of the residential school system on aboriginals were minimal.


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Re: Should Aboriginals Get Special Treatment in Today's Society? - October 28th 2009, 03:33 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizabella View Post
A good portion of the freebies they're getting now are due to the aftermath of residential schools, and those aren't exactly something from our distant past. The last one closed in 1996 - that`s within pretty much everyone on this site`s lifetime. Children were taken from their families in order to force assimilation, and then forbidden to do things like speak their language, practice their religion, or see their families for years at a time. Some families were never reconciled. They were kept in horrid conditions and abused sexually, physically and mentally by priests and nuns. Overcrowding, lack of sanitation and little medical care led to death rates as high as 69%, and there`s allegations that some schools actively tried to spread disease among the children.

After they were sufficiently screwed up by these disgusting insitutions (which were government funded, and for many years, mandatory by law) they were sent back to their homes. In most cases, they had no training in parenting, minimal training in any employable skill, and no support for their disturbed psychological state. They married and had children, and not surprisingly, had difficult parenting them. They tended to parent in the same manner they had been `parented` in the residential schools - that is, they punished them physically for misbheaving and continued the cycle of sexual abuse. Often they`d console themselves with alcohol, and so did their children. Violence and assault became common place on reserves. This pattern was repeated for generations.

You`re right, they get cheap housing on reserves. Awesome. Maybe we should add that most women on reserves have been sexually assaulted. Most people have been physically assaulted. Alcoholism is rampant. There are very few prospects in education or career on reserves. Health care is awful. Their culture is in shambles, and elders are desperately trying to teach the younger generation their language and traditions. Pretty much all the problems being experienced on reserves right now can be linked to the Canadian government`s attempt to wipe out their culture. We practically destroyed them - we sure as hell are obliged to help them repair the damage that`s been done.
I'm all for having people helping the Aboriginals restore their way of life, however, I believe that in that process, the Aboriginals shouldn't get special treatment. I agree, the amount of drug use, crimes, rapes, etc... up there tends to be higher than anywhere else in Canada or the US, however, should that mean that the government gives the Aboriginals special treatment?

Another reason though is suppose that in however many years, we do manage to repair the damage that's been done. If we keep these special rights for the Aboriginals then we would have to remove them once everything is restored. The problem is, that's going to stir up a huge shitstorm because like before, we're depriving them of something they felt belonged to them.

Lastly, what about blacks? For years, they were kept as slaves, beaten and faced horrible circumstances. They were branded and hardly treated as a fellow human being. Should they get special rights too because they had a long history of suffering? What about women and children who suffered endlessly, should they get special rights?

The point is, if you're going to give Aboriginals special rights because they've suffered so much in history due to the government, then it's only fair to give special rights to all other current groups that suffered, otherwise, you're saying that those groups don't matter but the Aboriginals matter more than they do.
   
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Re: Should Aboriginals Get Special Treatment in Today's Society? - October 30th 2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizabella View Post
A good portion of the freebies they're getting now are due to the aftermath of residential schools, and those aren't exactly something from our distant past. The last one closed in 1996 - that`s within pretty much everyone on this site`s lifetime. Children were taken from their families in order to force assimilation, and then forbidden to do things like speak their language, practice their religion, or see their families for years at a time. Some families were never reconciled. They were kept in horrid conditions and abused sexually, physically and mentally by priests and nuns. Overcrowding, lack of sanitation and little medical care led to death rates as high as 69%, and there`s allegations that some schools actively tried to spread disease among the children.
Didn't everyone who was in the residential schools already recieve direct compensation for that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Grizabella View Post
After they were sufficiently screwed up by these disgusting insitutions (which were government funded, and for many years, mandatory by law) they were sent back to their homes. In most cases, they had no training in parenting, minimal training in any employable skill, and no support for their disturbed psychological state. They married and had children, and not surprisingly, had difficult parenting them. They tended to parent in the same manner they had been `parented` in the residential schools - that is, they punished them physically for misbheaving and continued the cycle of sexual abuse. Often they`d console themselves with alcohol, and so did their children. Violence and assault became common place on reserves. This pattern was repeated for generations.

You`re right, they get cheap housing on reserves. Awesome. Maybe we should add that most women on reserves have been sexually assaulted. Most people have been physically assaulted. Alcoholism is rampant. There are very few prospects in education or career on reserves. Health care is awful. Their culture is in shambles, and elders are desperately trying to teach the younger generation their language and traditions. Pretty much all the problems being experienced on reserves right now can be linked to the Canadian government`s attempt to wipe out their culture. We practically destroyed them - we sure as hell are obliged to help them repair the damage that`s been done.
The government paying for things the way they do is only exacerbating the problems in the Native communities. Have you ever seen the show Intervention? The first thing they tell the family is that they have to tell the addict they are going to kick them out of the house and stop giving them money if they don't go to rehab. The government is essentially enabling people's drug and alcohol addictions by giving them all these freebies. There is also a lack of treatment centers here. So it seems to me that it would be much more helpful to provide treatment and cut off the freebies so have more motivation to go to treatment and actually succeed.

I'm not saying that everything should be cut off completely all at once. I think it needs to be done gradually with a lot of resources and support for the community. I honestly think they need a little push though before things will improve.


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Re: Should Aboriginals Get Special Treatment in Today's Society? - October 30th 2009, 10:30 AM

In Australia, Aboriginal descendants of something ridiculous like 1/32 Aboriginal are getting compensation payments to the things that happened to their ancestors. I have seen girls who claim compensation who are blonde with blue eyes and are whiter than I am.

The communities of people who are of stronger descent blame white society for causing them to be unemployed and uneducated. In truth, many of them just sit on their asses, living off centrelink payments, complaining about how they own the land while their kids wag school, sniff petrol and get drunk. If they refuse to help themselves, why should we help them?

My grandparents on my mother's side were forced to leave china to escape the Japanese invasion. Where's my compensation?


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