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  (#1 (permalink)) Old
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Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 10th 2010, 07:34 AM

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...909?source=rss

In short, this preschool is not allowing a kid to go to Preschool at their school because his mother's are homosexual. Some anonymous teachers spoke up, and now it's turned into a huge issue around here.

I've heard many people not be concerned about this and saying that homosexuals shouldn't go to a Catholic school when you know they don't accept you.

But on the other hand, people should NOT have to give up their religious views based on their sexual identity.

A group I'm a part of is hopefully going to find a way to show our appreciation from the LBGT society for the teachers who spoke up about this.

Where do you guys stand on this? For those of you not in Colorado, have you even heard about this?



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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 10th 2010, 08:13 AM

That is discrimination at its best.

I hope they all burn in hell. Seriously, I thought this whole 'omg homosexuals... ewwies' crap went out a long time ago?


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  (#3 (permalink)) Old
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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 10th 2010, 08:48 AM

Wow. "I'm going to discriminate against an innocent and helpless child because I disagree with the private lives of his parents." Very godly, I'm sure Jesus is proud. (Y)




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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 10th 2010, 10:23 AM

That's just pathetic.
I really don't understand, if they have something against homosexuals then why take it out on the kid's education?!
I've never heard of anything like this, I'm glad I haven't to be honest.
I'd probably protest.
Surely they would let the child in, if they want to be a part of their religion then why not?
Meh, I don't understand some people.
But in conclusion, I think it's pathetic and that those Catholics should be ashamed of themselves for picking on a innocent child like that.



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  (#5 (permalink)) Old
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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 10th 2010, 11:23 AM

That's just messed up.

Like one thing i've always thought, is that, the bible says "love thy neighbour" does it not?

Therefore, you shouldn't care weither or not your neighbour (so to speak) is homosexual, or hetrosexual. Love and appreciate them.

Another point relating to the bible that has come up in discussion is the fact maybe we have a Broder imagination than god/Jesus and that people in that time never THOUGHT about same sex couples.

Either way, this is just stupid. Everyone has rights to religion, beliefs, AND sexuality.


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  (#6 (permalink)) Old
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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 10th 2010, 02:45 PM

Oh my god....that's ridiculous.


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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 10th 2010, 03:17 PM

"Same shit, different day?" Honestly, that's how I'm starting to feel about stories like this. But yeah, stuff like this is entirely too common and gets a little more depressing each time. I'd hoped we'd made it safely into the twenty-first century, but it doesn't seem like it.


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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 10th 2010, 03:37 PM

Urgh that makes me so angry. I'm glad someone spoke up about it though instead of just letting it go. And I agree, your sexuality should not stand in the way of your faith.



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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 10th 2010, 04:23 PM

The sad thing is the more parents/teachers act like this the more children will think what they're doing is fine :/ pathetic, absolutely pathetic.


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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 10th 2010, 05:01 PM

There's so much craziness and homophobia around these days I'm surprised people don't mistake this era for the dark ages.
   
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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 10th 2010, 05:09 PM

It's not even like the kid themself is gay... and its preschool. Geez, they need to chill out, and remember they are there for the kid, not the parents anyway. And do they generally screen all the parents to make sure they follow all the rules of Catholism? I doubt it. See, homophobia doesn't only effect the gay people.

I just want to quote Jessie, because she worded it so much better:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Asylum View Post
Wow. "I'm going to discriminate against an innocent and helpless child because I disagree with the private lives of his parents." Very godly, I'm sure Jesus is proud. (Y)

   
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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 10th 2010, 08:14 PM

Alright, so they don't agree with the parents lifestyles. But the parents aren't the ones attending the school!

The funny thing is that God used to speak against Gentiles in the bible (Non-Jewish Christians). Yet now they are apparently completely perfect. But the gays, who God also spoke against, are not?

God tells us to love other more often than he tells us to discriminate against gays. God may or may not accept gays, but that's really none of our business. The relationship between two gay people and God should only be between two Gay people and God, not a whole Catholic school. God is the only one who has the right to judge or to deny, yet Christians do it everyday...





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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 10th 2010, 08:41 PM

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"If parents don’t respect the beliefs of the Church, or live in a manner that openly rejects those beliefs, then partnering with those parents becomes very difficult, if not impossible," the archbishop said in his statement.
The archbishop does have a point there, the school teaches that marriage can only occur between a man and a woman. The parents and the school obviously have different views and values.


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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 10th 2010, 08:53 PM

why would the school be teaching preschoolers about marriage?
   
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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 10th 2010, 08:58 PM

catholics only have a problem with homosexulas having sex because the natural reason for having sex is to produce children they dont have a problem with the sexual thoughts of a person and even so it shouldn't be put onto the child its not his fault his mother is gay the school are just going ott i go to a catholic and angilcan and there not allowed to do that its just stupid!!


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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 10th 2010, 09:40 PM

I actually don't really have a huge problem with this. It is a Catholic school, and they do have a code of conduct, and expect the parents of enrolled children to lead by good example of Catholic teachings.

No, they don't investigate every family to make sure the parents are practicing Catholics, they give the benefit of a doubt. However these women are obviously open about being gay, or else the school wouldn't have found out. And children (especially young children) have a tendency to spout off to their peers or their teachers about their parents and their home life.

The school doesn't want children going home and telling their parents that their classmate told them she had two mommies and then ask a bunch of questions about why that's not okay.

There are other schools, the kid can transfer.
   
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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 11th 2010, 04:43 AM

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Wow. "I'm going to discriminate against an innocent and helpless child because I disagree with the private lives of his parents." Very godly, I'm sure Jesus is proud. (Y)

This^. I don't see how they can legally deny a child education because of his parents sexuality. The civil rights people will have a hayday with this.


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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 11th 2010, 05:36 AM

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I actually don't really have a huge problem with this. It is a Catholic school, and they do have a code of conduct, and expect the parents of enrolled children to lead by good example of Catholic teachings.

No, they don't investigate every family to make sure the parents are practicing Catholics, they give the benefit of a doubt. However these women are obviously open about being gay, or else the school wouldn't have found out. And children (especially young children) have a tendency to spout off to their peers or their teachers about their parents and their home life.

The school doesn't want children going home and telling their parents that their classmate told them she had two mommies and then ask a bunch of questions about why that's not okay.

There are other schools, the kid can transfer.
I absolutely agree! This, being a Catholic school, is supposed to be teaching Catholic values, and if the teachings of the parents at home are against Catholic values then obviously it will not work out. The school should have the right to choose who can enroll, would they let a Satanist family enroll their child? It's the same concept here, the family stands against the values that the Church teaches, and they don't want the disruption. Think of it this way, what if a Nazi wanted to go to a LBGT Acceptance based school (Let's also assume the obvious that the Nazi is not homosexual and is very much anti-homosexual), should the school let this Nazi in who is blatantly against what they believe?


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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 11th 2010, 08:00 AM

Some days I wonder if the world is going back to the dark ages or if we're actually moving forward and being more accepting of people, and not doing bullshit like this. The parents are homosexual, so what? Are the parents going to the school as students? No, so why does it matter? Next thing you know, they'll deny a student because the student's father's mother's sister's aunt (twice removed) was homosexual. I wonder if they also reject students for other nonsensical reasons, such as not having a cross in their room or maybe because their parents don't go to church but are still Catholic. What does the private lives of the parents matter if they don't affect the performance of the student? I suppose they may also check to see if the parents have a degree in *gasp* something about evolution!!!

Legal or not, it's discrimination at its best with the added bonus of taking it out on an innocent, young, defenseless, helpless child who may not actually possess any of the qualities that the discrimination involves (i.e. may be heterosexual). Nothing like narrow-minded discrimination with laws to hide behind.

Same shit, different day with this bullshit from these types of Christians/Catholics.
   
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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 11th 2010, 12:48 PM

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I absolutely agree! This, being a Catholic school, is supposed to be teaching Catholic values, and if the teachings of the parents at home are against Catholic values then obviously it will not work out. The school should have the right to choose who can enroll, would they let a Satanist family enroll their child? It's the same concept here, the family stands against the values that the Church teaches, and they don't want the disruption. Think of it this way, what if a Nazi wanted to go to a LBGT Acceptance based school (Let's also assume the obvious that the Nazi is not homosexual and is very much anti-homosexual), should the school let this Nazi in who is blatantly against what they believe?
Two things wrong with that: you're presuming that catholicism and homosexuality are mutually exclusive when they're not. I imagine there are quite a few homosexual parents who subscribe to some branch or other of Christianity and who would like their children to attend a christian school.

Secondly, your question about the Nazi is moot; we don't have any LGBT schools, nor should we. Every time we allow children to be segregated according to some family trait - whether it be their parent's race, religion, or sexuality - it weakens our society as a whole. Now, as much as I dislike catholic schools; if the catholic community wants to have them, that's within their rights. But I don't think they should discriminate like this, especially when its the parents they're objecting too.


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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 11th 2010, 01:15 PM

Those big jerks! Just because someone is not straight doesn't mean that their kids don't need to be educated!


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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 11th 2010, 07:52 PM

I think it is wrong. But, I also think it is a good thing that the school out right didn't allow the kid instead of allowing the child in and then shunning him because of who their mother loves.

I don't really understand why a homosexual would want to put their kid in that kind of environment. I am not saying it is right or they should have to give up their religion but imagine the hate/taunting this child would have experienced if he would have gotten in.

So, no it is not right but I am glad it happened like this than the kid having to suffer.


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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 11th 2010, 08:06 PM

I don't really understand why they're doing this tbh, it's not really putting Catholics in a good light. It's not even the kid who's homosexual


   
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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 11th 2010, 10:00 PM

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I don't really understand why they're doing this tbh, it's not really putting Catholics in a good light.
True but suppose for a moment this didn't happen and the child was allowed to attend despite homosexual parents. Let's also suppose it was documented in the news also. Would it really matter? There's so much anti-homosexuality and such from Catholicism that I doubt this would even put a dent in it. Besides, you may even get the Church ragging on the school for accepting the child as well as other Catholic schools and individuals. But even if a miracle occurred and none of that happened, it won't put a dent in making Catholicism be seen in better light as there's so much issues it's dragged out as well as it'd be involved in more anti-homosexuality or other discrimination anyways so this miracle would be over-ridden.
   
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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 12th 2010, 05:32 AM

But religion has changed to form each individuals needs. For example, at first most Christians in general were against homosexuality. But now, as the times are changing and people are realizing new things, they're not. I hope that makes sense, I'm tired.

Would they not allow a homosexual person in their church because of their sexuality? To be honest, I'm not sure. From my experiences the church will accept you but ask you to change - which from my understanding this preschool didn't even go that far.

And my last point, is the KID homosexual? I'd understand a BIT better if the kid was homosexual. From my understanding as well, the parents aren't the ones showing up to class.



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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 12th 2010, 06:01 AM

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But religion has changed to form each individuals needs. For example, at first most Christians in general were against homosexuality. But now, as the times are changing and people are realizing new things, they're not. I hope that makes sense, I'm tired.

Would they not allow a homosexual person in their church because of their sexuality? To be honest, I'm not sure. From my experiences the church will accept you but ask you to change - which from my understanding this preschool didn't even go that far.

And my last point, is the KID homosexual? I'd understand a BIT better if the kid was homosexual. From my understanding as well, the parents aren't the ones showing up to class.
The Catholic Church doctrines have not changed in the past 2000 years, and I don’t think they will change them anytime soon. Homosexual individuals can go to Church, no one told them not to go and they are not told to change they are called to a life of abstinence (but that is a whole other topic)
Last, I just wanted to give you a different point of view on this. Why would you want to enroll your child in a school that doesn't even accept your lifestyle? You will only make it worst for your child. They have the “right” to dismiss anyone for any reason.


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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 12th 2010, 10:29 AM

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The Catholic Church doctrines have not changed in the past 2000 years, and I don’t think they will change them anytime soon. Homosexual individuals can go to Church, no one told them not to go and they are not told to change they are called to a life of abstinence (but that is a whole other topic)
Last, I just wanted to give you a different point of view on this. Why would you want to enroll your child in a school that doesn't even accept your lifestyle? You will only make it worst for your child. They have the “right” to dismiss anyone for any reason.
Um... actually, Catholic doctrine has changed a lot in 2000 years? 2000 years ago the Roman catholic church, headed by a pope etc, did not exist. Look at the Bible for illustration. And then over time things change with the catholic church. E.g the intro and removal of limbo, last rites, child baptism. Ok, most of these are adding things, but Catholic doctrine has changed, and has changed regardless of Biblical teachings. And in theory gays are encouraged to celibacy, in practice, many catholics dont stick to that.

But why might they choose that school? Maybe its local? Maybe its good, or safe, and other local schools arent? Perhaps they are actually still Catholic. There are plenty of possible reasons.
   
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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 12th 2010, 03:45 PM

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Um... actually, Catholic doctrine has changed a lot in 2000 years? 2000 years ago the Roman catholic church, headed by a pope etc, did not exist. Look at the Bible for illustration. And then over time things change with the catholic church. E.g the intro and removal of limbo, last rites, child baptism. Ok, most of these are adding things, but Catholic doctrine has changed, and has changed regardless of Biblical teachings. And in theory gays are encouraged to celibacy, in practice, many catholics dont stick to that.

But why might they choose that school? Maybe its local? Maybe its good, or safe, and other local schools arent? Perhaps they are actually still Catholic. There are plenty of possible reasons.

I think we must clearly define what is doctrine I think a lot of people confuse doctrine with small t tradition. The Church has held fast, that is why so many reject her for not approving modern views of contraception, homosexuality, etc. The Church changes were in practices.


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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 12th 2010, 11:38 PM

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Originally Posted by mexico View Post



I think we must clearly define what is doctrine I think a lot of people confuse doctrine with small t tradition. The Church has held fast, that is why so many reject her for not approving modern views of contraception, homosexuality, etc. The Church changes were in practices.
The Roman Catholic Churchhas held fast to *some* doctrine (though not always all that old doctrine, for example the banning of contraception isn't from 2000 years ago, and homosexuality was never really a Church topic until recent history), but changed a lot. And the things I listed, such as LIMBO, is not simply 'small tradition'. Lol, the Catholic church is so far from Biblical, you can not suggest its not changed doctrine in 2000 years, considering almost none of its doctrine is from the early church... like the existant of a Pope, like the require celibacy, and ban of marriage on priests (Corinthians, I think 2 Corinthians, I can look it up, actually requires religious leaders to have one wife and a family). Stop pretending the Catholic Church has remain unchanged since its start, and don't pretend it is the same as the early church. BTW, there was no such thing as a homosexual till the 1800s. Sexual orientation was never understood in the way we understand it.
   
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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 12th 2010, 11:43 PM

That's disgusting.
Is the school a private school? If so, it's also illegal.


if i've ever learned anything, it's to be loved.
funny how accepting and allowing that can be so hard,
when loving someone else can be so easy.
the thing is, we accept exactly what we think we deserve,
no matter what that may be.
so i'm thinking it's time to change our mindsets;
if we haven't yet figured out that we deserve the best,
then it's certainly time.
think about it ;]
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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 14th 2010, 04:01 AM

It's a catholic school... who follow catholic beliefs...

While I do not believe the child should be punished for the parents' sexual preferences, I do believe that when enrolling in such an institution, one should abide by their policies, regardless of how archaic they may be. It is your choice, after all, to agree by enrolling.


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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 14th 2010, 10:22 PM

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Originally Posted by Invert View Post
The Roman Catholic Churchhas held fast to *some* doctrine (though not always all that old doctrine, for example the banning of contraception isn't from 2000 years ago, and homosexuality was never really a Church topic until recent history), but changed a lot. And the things I listed, such as LIMBO, is not simply 'small tradition'. Lol, the Catholic church is so far from Biblical, you can not suggest its not changed doctrine in 2000 years, considering almost none of its doctrine is from the early church... like the existant of a Pope, like the require celibacy, and ban of marriage on priests (Corinthians, I think 2 Corinthians, I can look it up, actually requires religious leaders to have one wife and a family). Stop pretending the Catholic Church has remain unchanged since its start, and don't pretend it is the same as the early church. BTW, there was no such thing as a homosexual till the 1800s. Sexual orientation was never understood in the way we understand it.
No, it hasn't. It has reaffirmed doctrine by declaring it dogma, but no change in belief took place for that to happen. Limbo was never a doctrine. The Catholic Church teaching remains the same. However, the understanding of the Catholic Church has deepened.
The activity against homosexuality goes back to the Old Testament and has never been accepted. The only sexual activity allowed is in marriage between one man and one woman. Not a hot topic until recently? True maybe, but the Church responds to the world, and it has only become a hot topic in the last 20 or 30 years.
Contraception has never been ok. In fact, until the early 1900s, no Christian denomination allowed it. Again - this is more a modern topic. The celibate clergy is a practice and not really doctrine. Before that there were many married priests, bishops, and popes, even Saint Peter. Priests, religious brothers and religious sisters as part of their vocation choose not to marry.


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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 14th 2010, 11:03 PM

It is a catholic school? Couldn't they go else where?
   
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Re: Sacred Heart - Banning kids of homosexuals. - March 14th 2010, 11:16 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by mexico View Post


No, it hasn't. It has reaffirmed doctrine by declaring it dogma, but no change in belief took place for that to happen. Limbo was never a doctrine. The Catholic Church teaching remains the same. However, the understanding of the Catholic Church has deepened.
The activity against homosexuality goes back to the Old Testament and has never been accepted. The only sexual activity allowed is in marriage between one man and one woman. Not a hot topic until recently? True maybe, but the Church responds to the world, and it has only become a hot topic in the last 20 or 30 years.
Contraception has never been ok. In fact, until the early 1900s, no Christian denomination allowed it. Again - this is more a modern topic. The celibate clergy is a practice and not really doctrine. Before that there were many married priests, bishops, and popes, even Saint Peter. Priests, religious brothers and religious sisters as part of their vocation choose not to marry.
I don't think you quite understand the word doctrine...

Quote:
  1. A principle or body of principles presented for acceptance or belief, as by a religious, political, scientific, or philosophic group; dogma.
  2. A rule or principle of law, especially when established by precedent.
  3. A statement of official government policy, especially in foreign affairs and military strategy.
  4. Archaic Something taught; a teaching.
Limbo was therefore doctrine. Priests Biblically should have families, so its not their choice to make. But in Catholism, its not simply a choice, it is a requirement. If a priest wanted to get married, the church would require a resignation.

Homosexuality as a sexual orientation is never mentionned in the Bible, there are a handful of possible (admittedly most explicitly in Leviticus) reference to male same sex... sex... aka... anal. However the early church didn't really have a massive stance on it, in the same way as the modern church does, with at tops, a few passing references to obscure references in Romans, and 1 Corinithians, and depending on the translation you are using, Timothy. But the point is, this was about sex. Homosexuality is a bigger issue then simply sex anyway. Culuturally in Rome at that time, the only homosexual activity that was really allowed was an adult male with an underaged boy. But my argument isn't really a focus on gay here. The point was, its absurd to suggest the beliefs and practices (all doctrine) spewed out by the Roman church hasn't changed since the early Church of 2000 years ago. Limbo was a doctrine. The baptism of babies still continues. Last rites. Prayer to Mary. The whole heiracy of the church. Confession to priests for forgiveness. Mortal sins, All of these are either not in the Bible or are against it. And the Bible represents the early church. Catholism is not a pure form of Christianity. At all.
   
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