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Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 10th 2010, 07:04 PM

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20101110...q-6323e80.html

I saw this and like, I love the way the student's are standing up for their rights and everything, but when it comes to this amount of violence I think it's just out of control.

What do you think?


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 10th 2010, 07:11 PM

I agree Jessie. Them being violent isn't going to change anything

I feel sorry for the police there tbh, they're getting injured for just doing their job.
   
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 10th 2010, 07:22 PM

It's stupid =/ for one there's no need for violence, and for two it should be the universities they're angry at, they're the one's that are setting the fees not the concervatives...
   
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 10th 2010, 07:26 PM

I don't blame them for being angry. But when I read this and I saw the pictures of all the violence, my first thought was that it's totally needless. Student life is beginning to suck but starting a riot isn't really going to change that.




   
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 10th 2010, 07:49 PM

I agree with the protest but not the violence, there are many people from my uni down there to protest (including a good friend) and I, for one, know he wasn't involved. This will, if anything, backfire on us students though.
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 10th 2010, 07:54 PM

I think the protest should have been outside Lib Dem HQ.
They were the ones who promised to stop any rise in fees and possibly abolish them completely, the relied on the student vote and pretty much all student I know voted for them. I expected this from the conservatives but I am disappointed about how the lib dems have gone against everything they stood for and it seems like they did it very easily without much of a fight.

I also think the violence is so stupid. No one will take any of it seriously when they act like that. It is only a minority but it reflects badly on all of the peaceful protesters and all students...
   
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 10th 2010, 08:04 PM

I fully support them in breaking into Tory HQ. Especially whoever spray-painted 'Tory pigs' onto the wall ^^ Though I've been raised to hate all Tories xD I think that throwing a fire extiguisher off the roof was stupid, it could've killed someone. I'm hoping that the next protest goes to Lib. Dem. HQ, because I for one feel utterly betrayed by them. If I'd been old enough to vote in the election, I would have voted Lb. Dem. purely because of their promise to abolish uni fees. In fact, if it had been possible for me to be at that protest, I would've been there chucking stones through the windows. As it was, I've been sat at home watching it on T.V. and wanting to punch David Cameron's smug face in. I completely understand how those students feel, and just standing in the street isn't going to show the govornment just how angry this has made people.

And my mum agrees with me ^^


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 10th 2010, 09:06 PM

I think it is disgraceful. I think it is sick, that our society is behaving like this and putting all those people's life in risk.


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 10th 2010, 09:11 PM

Protests like that can potentially hurt people who aren't even involved, so I agree it's out of order. I'm sure there are many people who are just as angry at the Tories, but I don't believe violence is a sensible way to express those feelings, even if those feelings are legitimate and understandable.




   
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 10th 2010, 09:17 PM

To be honest I think the goverment had the riot coming.
In my opinion riots are the only way people are going to listen. Thats how France gets things done.
I dont fancy paying £8000+ per year for university. Its rediculous.. And really unfair.
I just think that the goverment need to listen more.




   
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 10th 2010, 09:25 PM

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Originally Posted by 3.14159265358979323846264 View Post
It's stupid =/ for one there's no need for violence, and for two it should be the universities they're angry at, they're the one's that are setting the fees not the concervatives...
Were it not for the Conservative/Liberal Democrat coalition government cutting the higher education budget by something in the region of 40% (official estimate; some are quoting much higher) such fees would not need to be charged. Also universities in the UK are public bodies and tuition fee rates have been regulated by the Government since their introduction and this higher rate is based on the Government accepting the proposals of the Browne Report on Higher Education so they can't really duck this one. But that's another topic...

I think those who decided to turn a peaceful protest into a violent riot need to really consider how much damage they have done to the cause they were supposedly supporting. Attacking Conservative HQ - and wounding police officers in the process I add - will not make the Government more inclined to listen and if anything gives them a very good reason not to. No government wishes to be seen as giving in to violence, after all, so why would they do so in this instance? Considering the preparation and support given by the overwhelming majority to the peaceful demonstration earlier, I feel the actions of this minority are a disgrace and I am very sorry for those who sought only to process peacefully based on legitimate grievances.


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 10th 2010, 09:37 PM

They abused their right to protest, simple as. I can definitely understand their anger and frustration, I'm positively dreading the thought of university life when I get to that age, but this is not the way to sort it out.
   
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 05:21 AM

Smashing windows, spraypainting words, tossing fire extinguishers around and lighting fires aren't civilized ways to protest however, they do bring attention to the issue which can be good if it's been ignored or things are moving slower than a snail's pace. This isn't to say all riots and destruction are good but when people demand, protest and riot for something which isn't met time and time again, it's only a matter of time before it blows up creating such chaos and danger. This isn't based on my political views of any political party, it's something I think applies to all: when protests increase in number, intensity and frequency for the same issue, when the government doesn't address it, sweeping it under the rug works for a bit. Eventually, the rug monster will get big enough to tear down the whole house until it gets vacuumed (i.e. addressed).


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 10:20 AM

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To be honest I think the goverment had the riot coming.
In my opinion riots are the only way people are going to listen. Thats how France gets things done.
I dont fancy paying £8000+ per year for university. Its rediculous.. And really unfair.
I just think that the goverment need to listen more.
I agree that about the whole situation it's based on, but putting other peoples health, their lives in danger when they have done nothing is taking to far. Fifty thousand people were there, doing itm that's uncontrolable. All the police officers who were injured, it's not fair on them. The people who had to be avacuated from the bulding, who were probaly terrified when they have done literally nothing. Throwing fire exstinguishers from foor floors up, setting fires, smashing windowns, attacking people. It's really unfair.

Personally if I was I Nick Clegg, and was knowing these people were going to be the future, I would be thinking why the hell am I going to change it. They could have done this in a much better way.

I hope there is more than just the thirty who will be arrested.


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 10:33 AM

Yep, those people are clearly mature enough to be in uni.

Nothing wrong with peaceful protest, but what they did was disgraceful.

No idea why everybody's trying to be so French lately. We had something similar in Ireland last week.
   
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 12:21 PM

Violent protests always have a habit of sending a stronger message than a peaceful one. People are understandably angry because the government is making a move in which education is becoming a priviledge for the wealthier of society. A lot of dreams and hopes will be ended.

I personally support them and the actions of the students here. Actions speak louder than words and similar methods affected the poll tax in the early 1990's.

A proposal for a second protest will leave the government more worried and insecure than if this were a peaceful one.
   
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 04:06 PM

Let's be honest though, they DID have it coming to them.
   
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 04:10 PM

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Let's be honest though, they DID have it coming to them.
That doesn't make it okay,


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 04:15 PM

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That doesn't make it okay,
If you read my other post you'd say that I said it was NOT okay. But, I do see why they did it, and I actually think that it's understandable.
   
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 04:18 PM

I dont see how its understandable to put people's life in danger.


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 04:19 PM

I get that students are frustrated and obviously with me going to university (hopefully) next year I can see the point they're trying to make.

And yes, a violent protest will probably make more people pay attention to what they're standing up for but they'll take notice for all the wrong reasons.
   
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 04:35 PM

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I dont see how its understandable to put people's life in danger.
Its understandable that they were angry enough to become violent.
   
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 04:39 PM

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Its understandable that they were angry enough to become violent.
But sometimes we have to control it, especially when there's 50 000 people there, and people in these buildings having to be evacuated, when they have done nothing wrong. I can't imagine the fear. It's not right for these people who did nothing, to have their lives at risk.


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 04:47 PM

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But sometimes we have to control it, especially when there's 50 000 people there, and people in these buildings having to be evacuated, when they have done nothing wrong. I can't imagine the fear. It's not right for these people who did nothing, to have their lives at risk.
I agree, but what they did is IMO understandable. Wrong, but I can see why they did it.
   
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 06:07 PM

If they find the person who dropped the fire extinguisher, they could be looking in to attempted murder. For a student protest to get that out of control, is shocking.


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 06:34 PM

I agree that throwing a fire extiguisher off the roof is unreasonable, but so is expecting normal middle class people to cough up none grand a year in tuition fees. The course I'm dreaming of doing is about £3,500 a year already. If that trebles, I'm looking at £10,500 a year just in tuition fees. How am I supposed to be able to pay for that?


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 06:37 PM

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I agree that throwing a fire extiguisher off the roof is unreasonable, but so is expecting normal middle class people to cough up none grand a year in tuition fees. The course I'm dreaming of doing is about £3,500 a year already. If that trebles, I'm looking at £10,500 a year just in tuition fees. How am I supposed to be able to pay for that?
I definitely agree with you. I'll be in that position too and it worries me like hell. I think it's stupid that they are putting up the costs and don't agree with it at all.

Student's protesting is fine. But I think all the violence is completely out of order.


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 06:39 PM

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Violent protests always have a habit of sending a stronger message than a peaceful one. People are understandably angry because the government is making a move in which education is becoming a priviledge for the wealthier of society. A lot of dreams and hopes will be ended.

I personally support them and the actions of the students here. Actions speak louder than words and similar methods affected the poll tax in the early 1990's.

A proposal for a second protest will leave the government more worried and insecure than if this were a peaceful one.
Perhaps, but in the meantime what it has most certainly done is galvanise government opinion on staying the course, as David Cameron's statements today demonstrated. As I said before, resorting to violence hands your opponents the perfect means by which to negate any merit to your argument. That is what makes me feel most sorry for the majority of the 50,000 people who attended - their message has been more or less lost in the violence.


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 06:41 PM

In my opinion, David Cameron is a slimy *insert expletives here* who can't be trusted, and Nick Clegg has completely sold out on the sole reason that he got into power at all.


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 08:01 PM

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Violent protests always have a habit of sending a stronger message than a peaceful one. People are understandably angry because the government is making a move in which education is becoming a priviledge for the wealthier of society. A lot of dreams and hopes will be ended.

I personally support them and the actions of the students here. Actions speak louder than words and similar methods affected the poll tax in the early 1990's.

A proposal for a second protest will leave the government more worried and insecure than if this were a peaceful one.
So, terrorism is okay now? Because it gets things done?
   
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 09:45 PM

What kind of student has time to do that anyway?

On a serious note violence means that you will be dismissed as vandals and ignored. Again. Way to go guys!


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 09:48 PM

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I agree that throwing a fire extiguisher off the roof is unreasonable, but so is expecting normal middle class people to cough up none grand a year in tuition fees. The course I'm dreaming of doing is about £3,500 a year already. If that trebles, I'm looking at £10,500 a year just in tuition fees. How am I supposed to be able to pay for that?
Unfair but a definite reality. Loans. And also the more essential courses should hopefully get more funding.. sounds harsh but I don't really care if you have to pay more money to a geography degree at a terrible Uni, realistically it's not going to do that much for your career.

Doing nursing or a teaching degree or science or something else more essential or vocationally focused.. the funding should be put into these types of courses and reduced for the less essential. Sad as it is (everyone would like free education for all no matter where or what you study) there is only a limited amount of money out there and I'd rather it go to people who are going to contribute that money back.


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 11th 2010, 09:52 PM

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Originally Posted by her_beautiful_mistake View Post
Unfair but a definite reality. Loans. And also the more essential courses should hopefully get more funding.. sounds harsh but I don't really care if you have to pay more money to a geography degree at a terrible Uni, realistically it's not going to do that much for your career.

Doing nursing or a teaching degree or science or something else more essential or vocationally focused.. the funding should be put into these types of courses and reduced for the less essential. Sad as it is (everyone would like free education for all no matter where or what you study) there is only a limited amount of money out there and I'd rather it go to people who are going to contribute that money back.
D= I couldn't agree more, my teacher said it was a crap idea when I mentioned it in lesson =/
   
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 12th 2010, 03:03 PM

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Unfair but a definite reality. Loans. And also the more essential courses should hopefully get more funding.. sounds harsh but I don't really care if you have to pay more money to a geography degree at a terrible Uni, realistically it's not going to do that much for your career.
I'm hoping to do Japanese combined at SOAS, so it'll be a pretty employable course at the best uni (for the subject) in the country. I'm hoping to go into journalism, but with a japanese language degree will probably end up in business. I personally am too squemish by far for nursing and too sensative for teaching. 100 years ago, my life would have entailed simply finding a husband to support me, but why should I have to choose between that and a carreer that is so incompatible with me? I am most certainly going to "contribute that money back", but surely it would be better for everyone if "that money" was less than £2,700 (which is probably the minimum it'll be)? There is a limited amount of money out there, so why are courses being trebled in price? When Cameron was at university, his fees were covered by the govornment of that time; in face, many people his generation were actually payed to go to university. I'm not asking for that system back, just one where students can actually afford to be students.

This is not intended as a personal attack, merely my response. All my anger is directed at the ****ups in in govornment right now.


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 12th 2010, 06:40 PM

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I'm hoping to do Japanese combined at SOAS, so it'll be a pretty employable course at the best uni (for the subject) in the country. I'm hoping to go into journalism, but with a japanese language degree will probably end up in business. I personally am too squemish by far for nursing and too sensative for teaching. 100 years ago, my life would have entailed simply finding a husband to support me, but why should I have to choose between that and a carreer that is so incompatible with me? I am most certainly going to "contribute that money back", but surely it would be better for everyone if "that money" was less than £2,700 (which is probably the minimum it'll be)? There is a limited amount of money out there, so why are courses being trebled in price? When Cameron was at university, his fees were covered by the govornment of that time; in face, many people his generation were actually payed to go to university. I'm not asking for that system back, just one where students can actually afford to be students.

This is not intended as a personal attack, merely my response. All my anger is directed at the ****ups in in govornment right now.
You think it is unreasonable to be expected to pay £2,700 for a University education? I think it is unreasonable to be expected to pay £7,000. £3,500-£4,000.. fair game, you're going to get a full loan for that amount so to me tuition fees have never been an issue because the government has given me the money to pay them. If you and your family cannot afford these fees then apply for scholarships, grants, do essays with prize money, make sure you get damn good grades to get the bursaries offered. The government helps the families who genuinely cannot afford it.

The government has a fixed amount of resources. They cannot fund everyones education. Yes in an ideal world it would be lovely if everyone could go to University for free (except it wouldn't, because a degree would become worthless. One of the reasons why we now have to pay for University and David Cameron did not is that there were a lot less people going to University then) and as nice as it is that you're going to study Japanese, it's not an essential skill for society, it's not a course that is needing more students (ie, sciences) to fill teaching/research demands and it's not going to contribute as much into society as say teaching or nursing or radiography or anything along those lines. Therefore no, under what I believe, you should not get as much money given to your course. So you have the choice of doing a degree that will leave you with a higher debt or not... your choice between that and being a housewife really makes no logical sense I don't have a response for that..

The government has a finite amount of money. Yes it sucks fees are going up, as it sucks that dementia patients no longer get the care they once did, as the police cuts suck and the education cuts suck. And I'd rather people had to pay contribute towards the mammoth amount of money the government pays for your University education then the healthcare/education/defence/etc budge was cut further.

Harsh but people need to wake up and face reality.


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 12th 2010, 07:46 PM

All I can see is a picture of me growing up into a bloody awful econemy, not being able to afford a living, not being able to claim any student benefits, not being able to afford university and not being able to get a job.
wow... life looks awesome.




   
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 13th 2010, 03:37 PM

If the govornment has a finite amount of money, why did it pay £32,000 per schoopl for every school in my county to get video conferencing? It seems pretty stupid that essential services are having their funding slashed but secondary schools all get video conferencing given to them


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 13th 2010, 10:53 PM

Different budget dear.


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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 14th 2010, 11:24 PM

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So, terrorism is okay now? Because it gets things done?
Terrorism or freedom fighting?
   
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Re: Student clashes outside Tory HQ - November 14th 2010, 11:27 PM

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Perhaps, but in the meantime what it has most certainly done is galvanise government opinion on staying the course, as David Cameron's statements today demonstrated. As I said before, resorting to violence hands your opponents the perfect means by which to negate any merit to your argument. That is what makes me feel most sorry for the majority of the 50,000 people who attended - their message has been more or less lost in the violence.
Do you think that they'd have done otherwise if it was a peaceful protest?

This has kept it talked about a lot longer and there is the fear of a second protest and the fear of another one if it is enacted.

Its sad and undemocratic but it is a more effective means of fighting an almost lost cause.
   
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