Should birth control be provided in schools?

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie

A lot of people are saying that schools shouldn't hand out birth control, but that they should hand out condoms. I get that there's obviously a big difference between the two since there are almost no side-effects associated with condoms, but honestly... I don't really agree with the idea. I feel like handing out condoms, but not birth control could perpetuate the idea that women need to take responsibility for contraception but men don't. Women would have to spend time and money to go and get a prescription whilst men would just be provided with free protection which required no effort to get. It doesn't really promote sexual responsibility for male teenagers.

There is no form of contraception available to men other than condoms or vasectomy. I don't see how much one can do about that unless we.. you know, start actually trying to provide better alternatives to men... which is kinda important considering the lack of legal protection men have in place.

[Guile]

Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie

A lot of people are saying that schools shouldn't hand out birth control, but that they should hand out condoms. I get that there's obviously a big difference between the two since there are almost no side-effects associated with condoms, but honestly... I don't really agree with the idea. I feel like handing out condoms, but not birth control could perpetuate the idea that women need to take responsibility for contraception but men don't. Women would have to spend time and money to go and get a prescription whilst men would just be provided with free protection which required no effort to get. It doesn't really promote sexual responsibility for male teenagers.

Well considering women demand the right to be the only who gets to decide whether or not to abort, seems only fair they take responsibility for contraception...

[ShimmeringFaerie]

Originally Posted by Cosmo

There is no form of contraception available to men other than condoms or vasectomy. I don't see how much one can do about that unless we.. you know, start actually trying to provide better alternatives to men... which is kinda important considering the lack of legal protection men have in place.

I agree that we should put more effort into finding better alternatives for male contraceptives. But if we want women to make a doctor's appointment, pay for their contraception etc., then why can't men go down to the shops and buy their own condoms? Giving out free condoms won't teach male teenagers how to protect themselves and their partners. What will they do when they are no longer in school and don't have someone else to look after their contraception needs for them?

Originally Posted by Guile

Well considering women demand the right to be the only who gets to decide whether or not to abort, seems only fair they take responsibility for contraception...

Right, I'm sure every woman who has ever been pregnant flat-out refused to involve the father in the decision to keep or abort the baby. And I'm also sure that there are absolutely no men out there who have ever pressured their partners into getting abortions.

Since men are perfectly capable of getting STIs, I would think it would be a good thing to teach them how to take responsibility for protecting themselves. Or do you think that women should take full responsibility for themselves, for men, and for children as well?

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie

Right, I'm sure every woman who has ever been pregnant flat-out refused to involve the father in the decision to keep or abort the baby. And I'm also sure that there are absolutely no men out there who have ever pressured their partners into getting abortions.

Sure, they give the illusion of choice, but in the end it's not up to the guy. If the woman wants an abortion, she'll have it. If she doesn't want one, she won't. It doesn't matter what the guy wants, he isn't part of the choice. And while it's true that a man can 'put pressure' on the woman to do what he wants, in the end it's just pressure, he can't force her.

[Marguerite]

Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie

I feel like handing out condoms, but not birth control could perpetuate the idea that women need to take responsibility for contraception but men don't. Women would have to spend time and money to go and get a prescription whilst men would just be provided with free protection which required no effort to get. It doesn't really promote sexual responsibility for male teenagers.

Condoms are as much availible to women as they are to men so I'm not seeing what your issue is.

Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie

I agree that we should put more effort into finding better alternatives for male contraceptives. But if we want women to make a doctor's appointment, pay for their contraception etc., then why can't men go down to the shops and buy their own condoms? Giving out free condoms won't teach male teenagers how to protect themselves and their partners. What will they do when they are no longer in school and don't have someone else to look after their contraception needs for them.

We shouldn't make condoms harder to get just so we can 'even things out'. The issue isn't gender specific, it's that condoms are cheap latex and the pill is medication which should be administered by someone with experience rather than some random person at a high school.

Originally Posted by Cosmo

Sure, they give the illusion of choice, but in the end it's not up to the guy. If the woman wants an abortion, she'll have it. If she doesn't want one, she won't. It doesn't matter what the guy wants, he isn't part of the choice.[/color][/font]

It's not the 'illusion of choice'. Legally of course men might have little to no say, but not every women who considers the father's opinion is just 'pretending' so that they look good and then just does whatever they want regardless of what the man wants.

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by Marguerite

It's not the 'illusion of choice'. Legally of course men might have little to no say, but not every women who considers the father's opinion is just 'pretending' so that they look good and then just does whatever they want regardless of what the man wants.

But at the end of the day, the man has no say in it. Therefore the idea that he has some kind of choice is simply not true, hence 'illusion'. At best he can try and persuade her that his choice is the one she should make.

[Maloo]

Can we get back on topic instead of debating abortion for the 47th time?

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by Maloo

Can we get back on topic instead of debating abortion for the 47th time?

Nobody is debating abortion, I suppose you mean the one on parental rights in relation to birth control and contraception. If you don't think that's relevant then I don't know what to tell you.

[Maloo]

Originally Posted by Cosmo

Nobody is debating abortion, I suppose you mean the one on parental rights in relation to birth control and contraception. If you don't think that's relevant then I don't know what to tell you.

There's a difference between related topics and staying on topic. Just because you're still kind of discussing birth control doesn't mean you're still talking about the original topic.

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by Maloo

There's a difference between related topics and staying on topic. Just because you're still kind of discussing birth control doesn't mean you're still talking about the original topic.

Nobody cares. It's relevant and adds to the topic at hand.


Also worth noting that your post has derailed this topic more than any other

[Maloo]

Your lack of respect for others is incredible.

Parental rights regarding abortion has nothing to do with birth control being provided by schools.

Anyway, schools can't really provide it due to the fact that a prescription needs to be written. Condoms were always available in my school, but very rarely did people have the courage to ask for it.

Though many parents disagree, I think sex ed needs to be started at a younger age, because kids are having sex earlier than they used to.

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by Maloo

Your lack of respect for others is incredible.

Parental rights regarding abortion has nothing to do with birth control being provided by schools.

Anyway, schools can't really provide it due to the fact that a prescription needs to be written. Condoms were always available in my school, but very rarely did people have the courage to ask for it.

Though many parents disagree, I think sex ed needs to be started at a younger age, because kids are having sex earlier than they used to.

I simply don't appreciate being told my, and others, contributions are irrelevant by someone not involved in the discussion.


It's not in relation to abortion, it's in relation to contraception and decision making, which is relevant when we consider the bigger picture - while the thread title specifically says in school, threads grow organically into different areas. Ie. a thread on Jesus may grow into a topic about Christianity in general. I believe this thread is now aimed more towards the idea of contraception for youth in general than contraception for youth in schools. I think it was originally a very "Yes/no" topic which has become a more debatable, gray-area topic.


Also, FWIW, I agree with both of your last two points.

[Pelios]

Originally Posted by Guile

The issue is I shouldn't have to pay for either.

We "shouldn't" have to pay more many other things but we still do. At the end of the day they are still going to have sex rather we give them condom or not, with giving them condoms we are preventing (maybe) the opportunity of them having a child and them having that child in welfare all their life which would cost us more. So I prefer just to pay a couple of dollars for condoms than 18+ years of someone new in the system. As much as I would prefer not to pay anything for those people it just can't go like that.

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by Pelios

We "shouldn't" have to pay more many other things but we still do. At the end of the day they are still going to have sex rather we give them condom or not, with giving them condoms we are preventing (maybe) the opportunity of them having a child and them having that child in welfare all their life which would cost us more. So I prefer just to pay a couple of dollars for condoms than 18+ years of someone new in the system. As much as I would prefer not to pay anything for those people it just can't go like that.

Right! If we took the 'why should I pay?' attitude then we wouldn't have any form of taxes, and therefore no real government and we'd most likely still be stuck somewhere in the 10th century.


Things have to be paid for. You're expected to be a productive member of society and to contribute appropritately. With that explained, I think that putting part of that money towards stopping unwanted pregnancies (Which, if you want it explained in selfish terms, would cost you more in the long term) is a good way to put that money to use.

[ShimmeringFaerie]

Originally Posted by Marguerite

We shouldn't make condoms harder to get just so we can 'even things out'. The issue isn't gender specific, it's that condoms are cheap latex and the pill is medication which should be administered by someone with experience rather than some random person at a high school.

I'm not suggesting making condoms harder to get. Where I'm from, they don't just hand out birth control of any kind in schools. You have to go and get it for yourself. I don't think that going into a shop and buying condoms is difficult at all. And I know that condoms work for women as well, but most women are going to opt for another method; condoms are just too unreliable.

And I already said that I acknowledge that there is a big difference between condoms and the pill. But I don't think that makes my point less valid. It's already been said that men can only really take responsibility for condoms when it comes to sex. If they are being just handed out for free, then how is that teaching male teenagers to take responsibility for their own contraception? What will they do when they aren't in school anymore? Just expect the woman to buy and pay for the condoms?

It is already an issue that a lot of men think that contraception is not their responsibility because "they can't get pregnant"; several males on this thread have already shown that that's what they think. And I think that it is an issue that needs to be addressed. And I don't think that handing out condoms will help resolve the issue at all.

[Sincerely Yours ♥]

Here's just another question to add to this: if condoms were given in schools more discretely, do you think more teens would use them?

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by Sincerely Yours

Here's just another question to add to this: if condoms were given in schools more discretely, do you think more teens would use them?

I don't think the issue with condoms is guys being embarrassed about getting them, it's that most guys don't want to get them. I think that solving that is going to take more than just making it easier to get them.

[Maloo]

They were given discreetly at my school, people still rarely asked for them.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie

I agree that we should put more effort into finding better alternatives for male contraceptives.

There have been male contraceptive pills already designed, however, they were banned either due to being too unhealthy or highly limited effectiveness. That said, there are male contraceptive pills and injections, although many are still in the research phase. This article mentions some of them:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/24/he...pagewanted=all

Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie

But if we want women to make a doctor's appointment, pay for their contraception etc., then why can't men go down to the shops and buy their own condoms?

They already sell them at shops so I'm not understanding your point. Condoms are equally available for both genders and genders have equal responsibility in protecting themselves and their partners.

Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie

Giving out free condoms won't teach male teenagers how to protect themselves and their partners.

So if males have to pay to buy condoms, then they can better protect themselves and their partners? Simple then, the schools should hand out condom allowance to students!

Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie

What will they do when they are no longer in school and don't have someone else to look after their contraception needs for them?

Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie

If they are being just handed out for free, then how is that teaching male teenagers to take responsibility for their own contraception? What will they do when they aren't in school anymore? Just expect the woman to buy and pay for the condoms?

When males graduate from school, they're not a bunch of lost confused bunnies that cannot easily find their way to a store, then navigate their way to a pack of condoms. You're implying males are unable to learn such a simple task because they're not paying for condoms. Although condoms are free, it is still the male's duty to use them so there still is a sense of responsibility.

Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie

It is already an issue that a lot of men think that contraception is not their responsibility because "they can't get pregnant"

That's not true at all because in the movie Junior, Arnold Schwarzenegger gets pregnant! But in all seriousness, are you trying to challenge the fact males cannot get pregnant?

Originally Posted by ShimmeringFaerie

And I don't think that handing out condoms will help resolve the issue at all.

What do you propose be done instead?

Originally Posted by Sincerely Yours

Here's just another question to add to this: if condoms were given in schools more discretely, do you think more teens would use them?

It doesn't matter how discrete, what matters is the teens' motivations or desires to use condoms.

Originally Posted by Maloo

Your lack of respect for others is incredible.

Boohoo . Respect is earned, even for online forums and if you expect otherwise, you're deluded, now mop up those tears.

Originally Posted by Maloo

Condoms were always available in my school, but very rarely did people have the courage to ask for it.

Did you ever have such courage?

Originally Posted by Maloo

Though many parents disagree, I think sex ed needs to be started at a younger age, because kids are having sex earlier than they used to.

Finally, you post something relevant. If I had my way, I would ignore the parents who disagree because sex is becoming less of a taboo topic, especially for youngsters.

[Maloo]

Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master

Did you ever have such courage?

I've been on some form of hormonal birth control since I was 15, so I'm not really sure what that has to do with anything. When I was dating someone who I was having sex with, we went to the grocery store to buy condoms.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by Maloo

I've been on some form of hormonal birth control since I was 15, so I'm not really sure what that has to do with anything.

Then why did you post it if you knew it was irrelevant?

Originally Posted by Maloo

When I was dating someone who I was having sex with, we went to the grocery store to buy condoms.

Again, irrelevant because the question regarded whether you had the courage not from the grocery store, not from the condom factory, not from the $0.05 street corner hooker, but from the school. If you knew it's irrelevant, why post it?

[Maloo]

Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master

Then why did you post it if you knew it was irrelevant?



Again, irrelevant because the question regarded whether you had the courage not from the grocery store, not from the condom factory, not from the $0.05 street corner hooker, but from the school. If you knew it's irrelevant, why post it?

Irrelevant to me. Not most people looking to get condoms. Just because I was responsible enough to protect myself doesn't mean that everyone else is.

[OMFG!You'reActuallySmart!]

Originally Posted by Maloo

Irrelevant to me. Not most people looking to get condoms.

So you think it's relevant in a discussion to say irrelevant stuff? I don't know what to say to you that's appropriate on this site.

Originally Posted by Maloo

Just because I was responsible enough to protect myself doesn't mean that everyone else is.

At least you've transitioned from irrelevant statements to statements that are relevant but too unfocused to contribute.

This back-and-forth discussion was fun while it lasted but you killed it.

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by The Man And XX Master

So you think it's relevant in a discussion to say irrelevant stuff? I don't know what to say to you that's appropriate on this site.



At least you've transitioned from irrelevant statements to statements that are relevant but too unfocused to contribute.

This back-and-forth discussion was fun while it lasted but you killed it.

Bro, you're coming off as a bit of a douchebag.


She made a perfectly innocent comment and you attempted to tear her to shreds.

[silentmuffin]

Like the pill? I don't think that would be wise to giver away in schools, if only because it's a medication and like any medication it could have side effects, could interact with other medications, or could be taken incorrectly. Not to mention the fact that many parents are very much concerned about what medications they give to their children for medical or philosophical reasons. You don't want to go over the parents' heads on this one.

As for condoms, I can see that being more acceptable, at least in high schools. I don't think they should be handing them out, but having some in the nurse's office or guidance office so students can pick them up if they feel necessary would be okay. Again, you don't want to be too eager to give them out, as some people may think you're sending the message to GO HAVE SEX, IT'S FUN.

Ultimately, the education about sex and the decision to utilize birth control SHOULD be things taken care of in the student's household with his/her parents. But if the parents are shirking their responsibilities in this area, the kids need somewhere to go for it, or they're gonna end up doing whatever the hell they want with no idea of the possible outcomes and no legitimate way to learn about it or take the proper precautions. So basically, I would say yes to condoms, but hopefully it would only be needed as a secondary resource.

[Guile]

They don't even give fucking aspirin at my school, I'll be miffed if they hand out free birth control!