TeenHelp
Support Forums Today's Posts


Get Advice Connect with TeenHelp Resources
HelpLINK Facebook     Twitter     Tumblr Hotlines

You are not registered or have not logged in

Hello guest! (Not a guest? Log in above!)

As a guest on TeenHelp you are only able to use some of our site's features. By registering an account you will be able to enjoy unlimited access to our site, and will be able to:

Signing up is free, anonymous and will only take a few moments, so click here to register now!



Current Events and Debates For discussions and friendly debates about politics and current events, check out this forum.

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  (#1 (permalink)) Old
Snufkin Offline
XO
I can't get enough
*********
 
Snufkin's Avatar
 
Name: Scott
Age: 23
Gender: Male

Posts: 2,029
Join Date: January 17th 2009

'Emo' youth being targeted by Iraqi militia - March 11th 2012, 08:59 PM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17333275

I'm a little dumbfounded by this. I get that we have discrimination everywhere, and I get that discrimination towards alternatives fashions and lifestyles is rampant even in the west, but I don't quite get why in Iraq dressing like this is such a big deal. I suppose the links to homosexuality is just ignorance, along with emos typically self harming or whatever.

I thought discrimination over fashion was something we were past long ago, but the right wing is determined to assault anything that isn't "normal" time and again.




   
  (#2 (permalink)) Old
Vimtoad Offline
Filling my panties with candy
I can't get enough
*********
 
Vimtoad's Avatar
 
Age: 24
Gender: Female
Location: where ever the coffee is

Posts: 3,020
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: 'Emo' youth being targeted by Iraqi militia - March 11th 2012, 10:02 PM

So It makes news when its in iraq but what about the emo's in the UK who are hated on ? Who are beaten up and attacked for being different. Country shouldn't matter, it's still crime.

Discrimination over fashion will never end - As long there are some idiots somewhere who think discrimination against others is ok there will always be discrimination of some form. It's the way society is.

Sterotyping however even though its discrimination is different its judging someone how they dress - yes emo's do listen to rock, yes emo's are alternative, yes some do self harm ect, but so do other people who are not alternative fashion /emo ect.

I'm 'emo' And I'm proud. I like the way I dress. Self harm does not make someone emo - Self harm has nothing to do with being emo. Yes I'm emo, Yes I self harm but I don't self harm because I'm emo. I self harm because of life and because of it's a way of coping. I'm not proud of the fact that I self harm not proud of it at all. I'm proud of being emo not of being a self harmer.



BADGER BADGER BADGER.........MUSHROOM!!!
Videos team
, articles team and helplink mentor and associate live help operator.
   
  (#3 (permalink)) Old
NevermindMe Offline
The Straight Edge Sniper
I've been here a while
********
 
NevermindMe's Avatar
 
Gender: Male

Posts: 1,818
Join Date: March 8th 2011

Re: 'Emo' youth being targeted by Iraqi militia - March 11th 2012, 10:14 PM

You have to realize, in some parts of Iraq it's still considered socially necessary for women to cover their hair and/or faces when out of their home. Iraq is not new to descrimination or corrupt military.

Banshee-Screamer: You did read what that said, right? These kids were killed by the military, not teased or pushed around. It's a totally different side of the spectrum.

- Justin



"Buy it, use it, break it, fix it,
Trash it, change it, mail, upgrade it,
Charge it, point it, zoom it, press it,
Snap it, work it, quick, erase it,
Write it, cut it, paste it, save it,
Load it, check it, quick, rewrite it"
Technologic

Last edited by NevermindMe; March 11th 2012 at 10:20 PM.
   
2 user(s) liked this post or found it helpful.
  (#4 (permalink)) Old
Vimtoad Offline
Filling my panties with candy
I can't get enough
*********
 
Vimtoad's Avatar
 
Age: 24
Gender: Female
Location: where ever the coffee is

Posts: 3,020
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: 'Emo' youth being targeted by Iraqi militia - March 12th 2012, 10:40 AM

Yes I read what it said but from where I'm sat they've made the news because they are emo and live in Iraq. Yes it's unfair that they are shot but they were shot because they were emo so my point was why does it make the news ? because they are emo in iraq. discrimination is not confined to one country - people here get beaten up to a pulp for a dressing emo - some left in comas. But it doesn't make the news. local news yes, but not worldwide news.



BADGER BADGER BADGER.........MUSHROOM!!!
Videos team
, articles team and helplink mentor and associate live help operator.
   
  (#5 (permalink)) Old
Marguerite Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Marguerite's Avatar
 
Name: Marguerite
Age: 21
Gender: Female
Location: Australia

Posts: 1,072
Join Date: June 1st 2010

Re: 'Emo' youth being targeted by Iraqi militia - March 12th 2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banshee-Screamer View Post
Yes I read what it said but from where I'm sat they've made the news because they are emo and live in Iraq. Yes it's unfair that they are shot but they were shot because they were emo so my point was why does it make the news ? because they are emo in iraq. discrimination is not confined to one country - people here get beaten up to a pulp for a dressing emo - some left in comas. But it doesn't make the news. local news yes, but not worldwide news.
It seems to me that you've completely missed or ignored his point. It has made the news because they were killed, if people were being killed in the UK for being emo it would make the news too.


While nobody deserves to be killed or even bullied for dressing in a certain way, I don't understand why if it's such a risk people would even bother. It's not like we're talking about race, disability, sexual orientation or some other thing you're either born with/as or can't change, it's just a style of clothing and if you want to avoid 'emo discrimination' it's as simple as putting down the eye liner. No, you shouldn't have to dress around people who will put you down or beat you or even kill you for your clothes, but that's life... and whether you want them too or not those kind of people exist. If you're willing to take on the risk in exchange for dressing how you want, that's fine, but be aware that you are taking on a risk


To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never, to forget

~Arundhati Roy
   
2 user(s) liked this post or found it helpful.
  (#6 (permalink)) Old
NevermindMe Offline
The Straight Edge Sniper
I've been here a while
********
 
NevermindMe's Avatar
 
Gender: Male

Posts: 1,818
Join Date: March 8th 2011

Re: 'Emo' youth being targeted by Iraqi militia - March 12th 2012, 05:38 PM

Banshee-Screamer: Some people are put in comas for being gay, for being straight, for being black, or being white, for being old, for being young, shit happens to everyone. My point was there were killed, not "Brutally beaten" (which happens to every walk of life.) Descrimination happens everywhere, but this was obviously a more serious form, wouldn't you say?

Anyhow, the Iraqi military is pretty corrupt already, I don't see how fashion is worth making yourself a target.

- Justin



"Buy it, use it, break it, fix it,
Trash it, change it, mail, upgrade it,
Charge it, point it, zoom it, press it,
Snap it, work it, quick, erase it,
Write it, cut it, paste it, save it,
Load it, check it, quick, rewrite it"
Technologic
   
1 user(s) liked this post or found it helpful.
  (#7 (permalink)) Old
Vimtoad Offline
Filling my panties with candy
I can't get enough
*********
 
Vimtoad's Avatar
 
Age: 24
Gender: Female
Location: where ever the coffee is

Posts: 3,020
Join Date: January 6th 2009

Re: 'Emo' youth being targeted by Iraqi militia - March 12th 2012, 05:46 PM

I know that they were shot and all that but what I was trying to say and didn't word quite right is why does it take a shooting for it to make the news ?



BADGER BADGER BADGER.........MUSHROOM!!!
Videos team
, articles team and helplink mentor and associate live help operator.
   
  (#8 (permalink)) Old
Snufkin Offline
XO
I can't get enough
*********
 
Snufkin's Avatar
 
Name: Scott
Age: 23
Gender: Male

Posts: 2,029
Join Date: January 17th 2009

Re: 'Emo' youth being targeted by Iraqi militia - March 12th 2012, 06:15 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marguerite View Post
While nobody deserves to be killed or even bullied for dressing in a certain way, I don't understand why if it's such a risk people would even bother. It's not like we're talking about race, disability, sexual orientation or some other thing you're either born with/as or can't change, it's just a style of clothing and if you want to avoid 'emo discrimination' it's as simple as putting down the eye liner. No, you shouldn't have to dress around people who will put you down or beat you or even kill you for your clothes, but that's life... and whether you want them too or not those kind of people exist. If you're willing to take on the risk in exchange for dressing how you want, that's fine, but be aware that you are taking on a risk
I pretty much agree with everything you've ever said, but this really has me torn. The thing is, I do 100% agree, but the submissive attitude is just somewhat...upsetting.

I get that if you don't want to attract attention, don't dress that way. But in an ideal world, it shouldn't be like that, you should be able to dress how you like and not be singled out for it. But I know it's not, so I know what you're saying, it's just a bit depressing to admit that it's easier to conform.




   
  (#9 (permalink)) Old
TigerTank77 Offline
Rage is the best anesthetic
I've been here a while
********
 
TigerTank77's Avatar
 
Name: Ben
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Location: NY

Posts: 1,534
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: 'Emo' youth being targeted by Iraqi militia - March 12th 2012, 07:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snufkin View Post


I get that if you don't want to attract attention, don't dress that way. But in an ideal world, it shouldn't be like that, you should be able to dress how you like and not be singled out for it. But I know it's not, so I know what you're saying, it's just a bit depressing to admit that it's easier to conform.
How exactly is this any different then telling a woman not to dress "provocatively"?

I'm not being accusatory, I'm serious. We tell "emo"s not to dress a certain way or people will fuck with them, but if we apply that logic to women who dress like prostitutes, there's a massive international movement of butthurt.


Often I lie wide awake, thinking of things I could make.
But I donít seem to have the parts to build them.
I am so scared of what will kill me in the end, for I am not prepared.
I hope I will get the chance to be someone, to be human.





  Send a message via AIM to TigerTank77 Send a message via MSN to TigerTank77 Send a message via Skype™ to TigerTank77 
  (#10 (permalink)) Old
Snufkin Offline
XO
I can't get enough
*********
 
Snufkin's Avatar
 
Name: Scott
Age: 23
Gender: Male

Posts: 2,029
Join Date: January 17th 2009

Re: 'Emo' youth being targeted by Iraqi militia - March 12th 2012, 07:45 PM

It's not. Like I said, it's something that's completely depressing. The attacker is the problem, or in the case of women, the rapist in the problem. But whether we like it or not, the alternative clothing, the provocative dress, can be an influence for bad things to happen to you. I would never tell anyone to change what they're wearing, but if I thought I was going to be harmed because of certain emo clothes of whatever, I'd probably just suck it up and wear something more normal.




   
  (#11 (permalink)) Old
Tyr. Offline
Banned
Junior TeenHelper
****
 
Tyr.'s Avatar
 

Posts: 217
Join Date: December 30th 2011

Re: 'Emo' youth being targeted by Iraqi militia - March 12th 2012, 08:03 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snufkin View Post
The attacker is the problem, or in the case of women, the rapist in the problem.
Urban myth.

The criminological literature tells us that there are three equal components to a successful crime: The Offender, The Location and The Victim. Without the right three parts, the crime will not occur. That does not fit with everyone's idea of a perfect reality, but that's life for you.

Frankly, I have no sympathy for somebody who dresses "emo" and is subsequently shot and killed in Iraq. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Iraq is still a shithole, and it's common sense that stuff like this is a no-go.

- Yogi
   
1 user(s) liked this post or found it helpful.
  (#12 (permalink)) Old
Snufkin Offline
XO
I can't get enough
*********
 
Snufkin's Avatar
 
Name: Scott
Age: 23
Gender: Male

Posts: 2,029
Join Date: January 17th 2009

Re: 'Emo' youth being targeted by Iraqi militia - March 12th 2012, 08:09 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogi View Post
Urban myth.

The criminological literature tells us that there are three equal components to a successful crime: The Offender, The Location and The Victim. Without the right three parts, the crime will not occur. That does not fit with everyone's idea of a perfect reality, but that's life for you.
I think you missed my point.

I don't believe any woman sets out to get raped, nor does any emo set out to get shot. It SHOULD NOT be about them, AT ALL. What they are wearing should be of no significance to anyone else.

But we don't live in a world like that. I wish we did live in a world where we were safe to wear what we wanted. A woman should be able to wear what she wants without anyone thinking she's looking to be raped. An alternative kid shouldn't worry about being killed, or indeed bullied. But that is the world we live in.




   
2 user(s) liked this post or found it helpful.
  (#13 (permalink)) Old
Marguerite Offline
Member
I've been here a while
********
 
Marguerite's Avatar
 
Name: Marguerite
Age: 21
Gender: Female
Location: Australia

Posts: 1,072
Join Date: June 1st 2010

Re: 'Emo' youth being targeted by Iraqi militia - March 13th 2012, 06:37 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerTank77 View Post
How exactly is this any different then telling a woman not to dress "provocatively"?

I'm not being accusatory, I'm serious. We tell "emo"s not to dress a certain way or people will fuck with them, but if we apply that logic to women who dress like prostitutes, there's a massive international movement of butthurt.
It's not different, it's pretty much the same.

I realise I'm about to say the exact same thing as Snufkin but I think it's worth reiterating anyway. I did think about that argument before I posted my comment about not dressing in a certain way because the parallels are fairly obvious. But everytime that particular argument is raised (women dressing like 'sluts' deserving to be raped) people really come out with the most oblivious stuff.

The whole idea seems to go like this: women should be able to dress how they want. If a woman is scarcely dressed, she is not asking to be raped. Therefore, telling women that they will be safer dressed more conservatively is basically saying that women who don't, deserve to be raped.

It's so ridiculous we're at the point in society now where we can't even suggest safety measures without looking like we're saying that people deserve to be shot/raped for acting a certain way.

Telling people that dressing like X might bring on greater risk of Y is not about blame after the fact. It's not saying "Oh, that emo deserved to die because he dressed abnormally." It's about preventative measures; and what is so wrong with that? People who want to deny this and scream mysogynist or victim blamer live in a fantasy world where everyone is fair, follows logic and only does what they're supposed too. Rapists exist. Sick people exist. Bigots exist. It sucks we have to work around those kinds of people but we do, and that's just life. We should be able to dress however the hell we want, but just saying we should be able too, even though true, isn't a good enough reason to put ourselves in needless danger. We can't just do things because in a perfect world we could, because this isn't a perfect world.

Oh, and I know I went off on a rant there but it wasn't aimed at you Tigertank, because, I really can't see you joining the sisterhood on a Slut Walk any time soon.


To love. To be loved. To never forget your own insignificance. To never get used to the unspeakable violence and the vulgar disparity of life around you. To seek joy in the saddest places. To pursue beauty to its lair. To never simplify what is complicated or complicate what is simple. To respect strength, never power. Above all, to watch. To try and understand. To never look away. And never, never, to forget

~Arundhati Roy
   
1 user(s) liked this post or found it helpful.
  (#14 (permalink)) Old
TigerTank77 Offline
Rage is the best anesthetic
I've been here a while
********
 
TigerTank77's Avatar
 
Name: Ben
Age: 23
Gender: Male
Location: NY

Posts: 1,534
Join Date: January 5th 2009

Re: 'Emo' youth being targeted by Iraqi militia - March 13th 2012, 05:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marguerite View Post
Oh, and I know I went off on a rant there but it wasn't aimed at you Tigertank, because, I really can't see you joining the sisterhood on a Slut Walk any time soon.
I am womyn, here me roar.


Often I lie wide awake, thinking of things I could make.
But I donít seem to have the parts to build them.
I am so scared of what will kill me in the end, for I am not prepared.
I hope I will get the chance to be someone, to be human.





  Send a message via AIM to TigerTank77 Send a message via MSN to TigerTank77 Send a message via Skype™ to TigerTank77 
1 user(s) liked this post or found it helpful.
  (#15 (permalink)) Old
Guile Offline
Head Jimmie Rustler
I've been here a while
********
 
Guile's Avatar
 
Name: Guile
Gender: Male
Location: United States

Posts: 1,618
Join Date: January 24th 2010

Re: 'Emo' youth being targeted by Iraqi militia - March 13th 2012, 07:26 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Banshee-Screamer View Post
I know that they were shot and all that but what I was trying to say and didn't word quite right is why does it take a shooting for it to make the news ?
Blood sells news.


Space Flight Awards

Geosynchronous Orbit (Kerbin)
Manned Capsule and return (Kerbin)
Space Station and Docking (Kerbin)
Equatorial/Polar Probe (Mun)
Landing Resulting in the Loss of a Kerbanaut (Mun)
   
  (#16 (permalink)) Old
Ariokage Offline
Ms.Marvel
Average Joe
***
 
Ariokage's Avatar
 
Name: Lea
Age: 20
Gender: Female
Location: NYC

Posts: 99
Join Date: February 13th 2012

Re: 'Emo' youth being targeted by Iraqi militia - March 14th 2012, 06:59 AM

iraq isnt as devloped of a culture as UK or the US, as they think very traditonally.
I think teens anywhere want to rebel aqainst status quo of their surroundings and dressing in a diffrent or flamboyant way has always been a form of rebellion like punks + hippies.The goverment probably saw it as that and killed them. They made the news because they didnt deserve to die for expessing themselves. I dont think being emo matters in this.


once i built a great machine
  Send a message via AIM to Ariokage  
  (#17 (permalink)) Old
Guile Offline
Head Jimmie Rustler
I've been here a while
********
 
Guile's Avatar
 
Name: Guile
Gender: Male
Location: United States

Posts: 1,618
Join Date: January 24th 2010

Re: 'Emo' youth being targeted by Iraqi militia - March 15th 2012, 10:06 AM

You dress a certain way to give off an appearance, that's why we have brands, and why there were traditionally different outfits for the nobility and the peasantry, along with outfits based on trades.

Hate to say it, but if you're dumb enough to dress like that in Iraq, you deserve it. Just like if you left $1000 in heroin out in the street in the hood for "safekeeping", you're just an idiot...


Space Flight Awards

Geosynchronous Orbit (Kerbin)
Manned Capsule and return (Kerbin)
Space Station and Docking (Kerbin)
Equatorial/Polar Probe (Mun)
Landing Resulting in the Loss of a Kerbanaut (Mun)
   
  (#18 (permalink)) Old
"Bisexual" Tux (Linux Mascot)
I've been here a while
********
 
Loving Linux Penguin's Avatar
 
Name: Chris
Age: 18
Gender: Male
Location: SF Bay Area

Posts: 1,542
Join Date: December 27th 2009

Re: 'Emo' youth being targeted by Iraqi militia - March 17th 2012, 03:03 PM

Forgive my ignorance, but doesn't Iraq have a Constitution or Charter of Rights or anything? I honestly find it hard to believe that it's ILLEGAL for someone to wear certain clothes. Improper, sure. Disrespectful, sure. But illegal...? If it's not illegal, then I'd argue that the militia has no business killing people for it.


Chris
You can always contact me to talk about anything!
---------------------
Proud to be myself.

Need a hug? Please take one!
Associate HelpLINK Mentor (with LiveHelp access)

Image Credit: startingover18 (Tumblr)


Here's a thanks to the really cool guy that helped me face fear and make a wonderful change in my life!
last updated on 4/26/14
   
Closed Thread

Bookmarks

Tags
emo, iraqi, militia, targeted, youth

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All material copyright ©1998-2014, TeenHelp.
Terms | Legal | Privacy | Conduct

Powered by vBulletin®.
Copyright ©2000-2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search engine optimization by vBSEO.
Theme developed in association with vBStyles.