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Religion and Spirituality, Science and Philosophy Use this forum to discuss what you believe in. This is a place where everyone may share their views freely.

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Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 11th 2012, 10:27 PM

I just came across this discussion and to be honest, I can't help laughing at it. You can read the whole thing here: http://www.catholictruthscotland.com...ade-pointless/

Personally I think it's a tad ridiculous. I know that I, personally, much like most others who will be there, do not believe I am committing a sin. Therefore I don't want a group of strangers begging their God not to send me to Hell for being happy. It's laughable. And slightly insulting, if I'm honest.

Quote:
To be completely honest about this, I think most people (myself included) are afraid of doing anything public because of the power of the homosexuals.
This made me laugh loudly, shout "THE POWER OF THE HOMOSEXUALS!" and then start mentally playing "I've Got The Power" in my head.

Quote:
Let’s get priests to be present and say the prayer of exorcism while these people proclaim their perversion. They have declared war on Christ and his Church – let’s not sit back and do nothing.
I don't know about anyone else, but I certainly haven't 'declared war on Christ and his Church' I just happen to like girls - that doesn't mean I'm starting anti-religious protests and joining a cult.

Quote:
When Gay Pride displays itself in Glasgow, then, we may be certain that it is yet another manifestation of the Pride of Lucifer, who has taken control of our Post-Christian, anti-family world and is leading it straight into the abyss.
Well that's a little harsh...


Quote:
Hopefully the answer to those prayers will be a cancellation of this event, permanently if possible. Though Glasgow sees its fair share of rain, a deluge could also be an answer to prayer. It might dampen spirits and pride.
And that's just mean.

I could go on for days. The whole thing just makes me facepalm. What does everyone else think?


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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 11th 2012, 11:09 PM

I've said this so many damn times, and here I am about to say it again. Homosexuality. is NOT. a sin. No, no, no, no, NO.

I can't stand when Christian groups get all up in arms about it; it's none of their business what other people do. It's not their life, so why do they insist on going apeshit? I look at groups that rally against homosexuality and all I see is a bunch of mindless apes saying "Hurr durr, you're going to hell, hurr durr, god hates gays!"

It pisses me off because when they do this they go against the most basic of Christian teachings; love thy neighbor, do not judge so that you will not be judged, god loves everyone, etc. They're going against their own religion when they're trying to force others to follow it! Every time I hear someone say that god hates homosexuality, or homosexuality is wrong, or god hates gays, I want to throw a bucket of rainbow glitter on them.

Homosexuals have every right to love, and should be proud of who they are despite what some narrow minded people may think.



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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 11th 2012, 11:45 PM

I'm straight and this is one of the 2 things about Christianity that I absolutely CAN NOT stand (the other being that suicide is a sin). I've always said it this way: Treat everyone with the basic respect of fellow human being and leave the judgement up to God. They believe that He's the only one who can decide who ends up where anyway and then there's that no judgement thing. What I think they don't realize is that judging someone for being gay is just as bad as they think being gay is. I think when they meet God (or however that works) he's going to hold them accountable for judging gay people and they're going to be shocked. God supposedly loves everyone regardless of sin or anything else and accepts us as we are so I really don't think He cares as much as these people think He does


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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 12th 2012, 04:15 AM

The contempt in my heart for those so called "Christians". It reminds me of the "Christian" protests in the olden days against blacks, interracial marriage...non-whites... Like, I'm a Christian (the type of Christian anyone can get along with), I do have a simple, unwavering knowledge of what's right and wrong (no, not knowledge I was taught, I came to the realizations on my own), and I truly believe being LGBT is not a sin, in any way, shape, or form (within reason). I'm bi, and I believe people who think I've been "tempted by the devil" can just go and jump in front of a bus. I actually contemplate the meaning, reasoning, and sinfulness of a sin, unlike most who say, "Oh, it's a sin because God said so." Yeah, really? Just like the one time I asked how the immune system of a rat allowed it to live in sewers, and a Christian responded, "Because God made them that way." What the heck, you idiot!?

Sorry, off topic...but nope, homosexuality is definitely NOT a sin. Christians never protest against things that actually matter, like animal abuse and the immunity "fancy" people have to the law (governments, rich people, police officers, etc., never have to pay for their crimes like the commoners do). "Christians" need a nice whack to get it through their thick heads to shut up about our harmless minority group!
   
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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 12th 2012, 04:40 AM

My religion has nothing to do with my political opinions.

I don't consider anything from Christianity in regards to this, I protest for political reasons.


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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 12th 2012, 05:59 AM

We can have gay prides and they can have their religious prides too, I just don't think it is appropriate for them to coincide, I doubt any of the party goers want prayers denouncing their happiness.
   
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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 12th 2012, 12:53 PM

Just with regards to people when they use the term "god hates gays". I am Muslim and the fact is, Allah hates no one. God hates no one. 'Nuff said.


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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 12th 2012, 01:04 PM

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Originally Posted by Oneirophobia View Post
Just with regards to people when they use the term "god hates gays". I am Muslim and the fact is, Allah hates no one. God hates no one. 'Nuff said.
Exactly, and quite frankly, these days I am finding that it is Western Religion that is becoming more corrupt and negative and just plain ignorant. I thought religion was about finding inner peace and harmony, a way to help explain certain events of nature or occurrences that we cannot quite understand and to represent moral beliefs and values. I guess it varies from religion-religion, person-person but that is my take on it. Then again it is probably just the minority ruining it for the majority, as per usual.
   
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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 12th 2012, 01:07 PM

Im a christian and God made man to marry woman BUT he also made us independent and we can choose ho we want to be and guess what God is ok with it. Jesus died because people do their own thing, they do things that God didnt plan. Also God is very approving of love nd as my perseption love is love nomatter what sexuality!!!Just saying im 100% sure that when I face God I will be accpted into heaven and have eternal life with Him dispite being bisexual,Love is Love!
   
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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 12th 2012, 01:48 PM

I am a Christian and am against homosexual relationships, but if I saw one of these festivals, I wouldn't be one of the people standing outside protesting and yelling at them. I would be one of the people inside, talking to them about God and handing out gospel tracts. I would do it calmly and lovingly, and if the people didn't want to listen to me, they would have the freedom to walk away and not be harassed. That wouldn't mean that I'd be okay with what they were doing, but it would mean that I've done all I can do and I would pray for them in my own time. No yelling or picket signs or name calling.

In fact, if you go on Youtube, there is a Christian author/evangelist named Mark CaHill who does just that. If you search "Mark CaHill, Pride Comes Before Destruction", there are a bunch of videos of him witnessing to people at a gay pride festival. When people refuse to talk to him, he responds with love and lets them walk away freely. When they are willing to hear what he has to say, he preaches the gospel to them. It's really really cool and something I would like to do (I've done it, but not at a gay pride festival).
   
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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 13th 2012, 04:26 AM

If loving yourself, accepting yourself and loving and accepting others as Jesus teaches is wrong and "unGodly" then by golly, I guess I got the power of the devil in me. I guess I'll be dancing the devil's jig until I die, then, if hate is right and love is wrong.



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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 13th 2012, 04:28 PM

It's not the love that's wrong, it's the romance. I love many people of the same gender, but I would never date/kiss/lust for them.

And hate is wrong in any situation, but not hating someone doesn't mean we have to condone all of their choices. And before someone says "being gay isn't a choice!", I'm talking about the actions, not the feelings. I don't know if the feelings are a choice or not so I won't get into that.

I know we've been through this on this site numerous times before, so I'm not going to get into this any more that I just did...but I just wanted to point out that disagreeing with someone's choice and not being afraid to say so doesn't mean you hate them. I don't hate any of you.
   
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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 15th 2012, 02:36 AM

Megan, I think you hit the nail on the head. I mean, I think the bottom line is that you just have to respect people and their choices even if you are against these choices.

Respect is allowing them to have those opinions and have those beliefs and have those relationships with people regardless of what you think about that. It's putting your opinions after others and it is not what this prayer group showed.

I think it is the same as this website, we have people of all different religions and sexual orientations, some of which I have never heard of before but we do not picket anyone or more appropriately for this example, spam anyone saying that they are evil or doomed because that's who they are.

We are all equally human no matter what religion or sexual orientation we might and what this prayer group did by protesting against homosexuality like this is trying to establish a sense of superiority. Personally, I'm not buying it.

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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 15th 2012, 10:18 AM

I think these Christian groups need to find better things to do than to get all up in my bedroom and my ovaries. Leave people alone to their personal freedoms. I promise, if I'm ever interested in Christianity, I'll know where to go. You know where I'm not interested in it? My pride parades and in front of my Planned Parenthood. Don't agree with my decisions? Go ahead and pray for me, but you're only making your side seem hateful and ignorant by protesting my life.


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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 15th 2012, 05:45 PM

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Originally Posted by Revolution View Post
I think these Christian groups need to find better things to do than to get all up in my bedroom and my ovaries. Leave people alone to their personal freedoms. I promise, if I'm ever interested in Christianity, I'll know where to go. You know where I'm not interested in it? My pride parades and in front of my Planned Parenthood. Don't agree with my decisions? Go ahead and pray for me, but you're only making your side seem hateful and ignorant by protesting my life.
Question: would you therefore have the same objection to groups like the National Secular Society (UK) and American Humanist Assoication organising protests for large-scale religious events, such as the Pope's visit to the UK a few years ago or open-air services? If not, why not? Surely the principle is the same?

-----

On a more general note - and this next bit isn't directed at anyone in particular, I should make clear - I feel this may be where, as a global society, we seem to have completely lost our way as to how to react to protests. The idea of someone disagreeing with our point of view and our way of life, and expressing that disagreement publicly, seems to have shifted from being viewed as a valid expression of opinion to something utterly abhorrent if it's directed at something we're passionate about. This to me seems somewhat selective. Whatever stance we take in life, on whatever topic, we are going to run into people who disagree with us, sometimes vehemently. There are some people where I work, for instance, whose attitudes on people from other nationalities border on overt racism, and for various reasons I disagree with them quite strongly. Likewise, I live in a historically conservative area in terms of national politics but am myself a liberal. I therefore have to deal with the fact that a lot of people will disagree with me on a fairly regular basis. If I was take offence at everything I disagreed with, however, and sought to ban it being uttered in my presence I would quite rightly be derided as a delusional egomaniac. Put such expression into an overt, public form, however, in the form of a protest or other affirmative action which is otherwise legal and that is seen as an affront to our lives and should be banned. I should add, at this juncture, that I am stating things in their most extreme terms and most people are not that blunt about it, but judging from some reactions to other protests (the Occupy movement or student tuition fee protests being two examples) you would have reasonable grounds to believe that dissent from the majority opinion is totally unacceptable and can only take place behind closed doors between consenting adults and certainly not in the public domain. Much as I am loathe to use the analogy, because it is one of the most used and abused ones there is, if that isn't creeping towards Oceania then quite frankly I'm not sure what is. Within freedom of expression, there is the freedom for people to say or do things which we disapprove of, either by positive action or by disapproving of our own conduct, and while there are grounds for limiting their freedom to do so (such as where it constitutes a criminal offence or is purely done to cause as much harm as possible) such limitations should be on objective grounds and not simply because we find it inconvenient or unpleasant for such conduct to take place. Much as this applies to other forms of expression, so it applies to protest. Provided they do so in a lawful manner, people have the right to express their grievances, even if we find them irrational or disagreeable. That is part and parcel of living in a democratic society.

Now, I recognise that for many people pride events and other such gatherings are a "safe space" from persecution by others, and that is fair enough. I can understand in such a context why seeing protest groups, whatever form their protest actually takes, could be distressing and upsetting. Fair enough. But if you start actively prohibiting people from protesting, irrespective of the nature of their protest, simply because it could cause upset, then where is the line to be draw? For example, I would have no qualm with a prohibition being levied against the Westboro Baptist Church with regards to such events, as well as their funeral pickets, because the manner in which they go about protesting is deliberately provocative, aggressive and - in the case of funerals - quite insensitive really. However, unless the prayer group in question was planning to hurl abuse at the participants in the parade and act in a generally offensive manner, I wouldn't apply the same restriction to them - just as I wouldn't apply similar restrictions to a similarly-conducted protest by atheists against my religion. I may disagree with them, certainly, but personal disagreement and legal restriction should not be readily or easily linked together. That just begets further intolerance, which in the long run helps no one.

For the record, I'm a Catholic but I don't agree with the language or content of the messages on that page, and I certainly don't agree with holding a prayer group in response to the pride parade for the reasons they sought to do so. That being said, I would be as uncomfortable with the idea of specifically preventing them from doing so as I would be with the idea of the atheists who picketed the open-air Mass I went to which the Pope was officiating being prevented from holding their picket. The risk of being offended is to my mind a small price to pay for a wider freedom, and in any event the best response to such protests if one takes exception to it is to ignore it. Attention is what is being sought at the end of the day, and denying them it and/or a reaction is a more effective response.

I realise I went majorly off-topic here and apologise for doing so, but it's something I've noticed more widely and not just with this particular event and it's giving me cause for concern.


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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 15th 2012, 06:29 PM

The fact that they have their own right to free speech anyway is just fine. (They actually changed their mind and held their prayers around the corner from Pride as far as I know) What bothers me about this is everything they're saying about the LGBTQ community on their website. It's pretty harsh at points.


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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 15th 2012, 06:41 PM

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The fact that they have their own right to free speech anyway is just fine. (They actually changed their mind and held their prayers around the corner from Pride as far as I know) What bothers me about this is everything they're saying about the LGBTQ community on their website. It's pretty harsh at points.
Agreed - ironically, much of what they said flies in the face of the Catholic Church's teachings (specfically the bit about LGBTQ people not being discriminated against by members of the Church...) and has already been pointed out also violates some of the most basic Christian teaching. Hence why I disagree with it completely. My concerns were more what I mentioned above.


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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 15th 2012, 10:32 PM

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Question: would you therefore have the same objection to groups like the National Secular Society (UK) and American Humanist Assoication organising protests for large-scale religious events, such as the Pope's visit to the UK a few years ago or open-air services? If not, why not? Surely the principle is the same?
Yes. I don't even understand why people would do that, what's the point of protesting a religious event? I'm a very outspoken atheist/humanist, and I encourage my Christian friends to get involved in their churches if that's what makes them happy. I work at a university, and I make sure I know the local churches and other places of religion by name so that if somebody is looking for one, I can help. Religion makes people happy, as spirituality within the earth makes me happy. I think it's a human right, and I especially think "humanists" protesting this are not real humanists.

I don't like people invading my rights, and I would never invade others'. Nice question though, I appreciate it. I love discussing this.


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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 16th 2012, 05:35 AM

I cant believe people of my religion are so intolerant. Jesus preached the opposite.


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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 16th 2012, 05:45 PM



I know that's a bit off topic, but I was at a graduation party and they had christian magazines around the house. So, me and my cousin (he is transsexual) were flipping through the pages and landed on this. Like others have said, God is about love and respecting others. This isn't respectful at all, it's disgusting and wrong. I do not hate christians, I just don't care for their "prayers" or "preachings".

At the Cleveland Pride, protesters and prayer groups weren't allowed anywhere near the Pride festivities. And, where they did protest, a group of allies wore white outfits with huge wings to cover the faces and signs of those hating from those who were there to love and be loved.


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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 17th 2012, 03:51 AM

In the words of Ghandi: "I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."

It's sad how true it is. I don't understand it, there is NOTHING wrong or bad about homosexuality. I'm a Christian and I believe in gay rights, so that means I'm trying to push for the "elimination" of my own religion? Bullshit.


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Maddiystic Offline
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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 17th 2012, 11:04 AM

I am a Christian and believe it is fine to have different preferences. It is who you are. I sometimes do not know if I should call myself Christian due to the fact I could be pasted with those others who use the same name and also slander like this.
   
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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 17th 2012, 05:19 PM

I read most of the replys, and a lot of them almost brought me to tears. I'm a Christian, and the way gays are judging us is just as bad as a lot of Christians are judging gays.
1) It's not just some Christians that are against gays. There are other people who just think it's simply wrong.
2) Gays aren't born gay. Since God is so against it, why would he make someone born that way? Many people think that something happened to people that mentally scars them or makes it so they can't trust men or women so they solve it by being with the same gender.
3) God doesn't hate gays. In the bible, it says all sins are equal. Stealing, lying, jealousy are all the same as sexual sin. It's a sin none the less, but God doesn't hate anyone for that. That's why God had Jesus die on the cross so people can be forgiven.
4) Most gays are trying to force people to accept them. People have the freedom to accept anything they want. They shouldn't judge gays like a lot of people do, but they don't have to like what they're doing. They shouldn't have to support them. I believe friends and family should still love you, but they shouldn't have to love what you're doing. My sister's a lesbian and I love her so much. I don't like how she's a lesbian, it confuses the hell outta my niece who wonders why she has two moms. But I love her because even though she's a lesbian, she's a really good person.

Bottom line, gays shouldn't judge christians, not all of us are against them. Christians shouldn't judge gays, they aren't devils sent by Satan.
   
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Re: Prayer Group at Gay Pride - July 17th 2012, 10:17 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revolution View Post
Yes. I don't even understand why people would do that, what's the point of protesting a religious event? I'm a very outspoken atheist/humanist, and I encourage my Christian friends to get involved in their churches if that's what makes them happy. I work at a university, and I make sure I know the local churches and other places of religion by name so that if somebody is looking for one, I can help. Religion makes people happy, as spirituality within the earth makes me happy. I think it's a human right, and I especially think "humanists" protesting this are not real humanists.

I don't like people invading my rights, and I would never invade others'. Nice question though, I appreciate it. I love discussing this.
Fair enough - that's an interesting and quite refreshing response actually. Much of my experience to date has usually exposed some hypocrisy when that point is raised, so fair play to you for that attitude.


"The greatest glory in living lies not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." - Nelson Mandela, Long Walk to Freedom

However bleak things seem, however insurmountable the darkness appears, remember that you have worth and nothing can take that away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OMFG!You'reActuallySmart! View Post
If you're referring to dr2005's response, it's not complex, however, he has a way with words .
RIP Nick
   
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