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Religion and Spirituality, Science and Philosophy Use this forum to discuss what you believe in. This is a place where everyone may share their views freely.

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Why do you believe in god? - July 16th 2013, 03:25 AM

I want to hear your reasons for believing in god(s). I will respond to some, playing he Devil's advocate, so if you don't want to debate or have me question your logic, don't post. You can also inquire of me about my anti-beliefs and I will respond.


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Re: Why do you believe in god? - July 16th 2013, 03:49 PM

I don't believe in God in the traditional "man in the sky" sense. I think the Christian view of God is quite the arrogant presumption on humanity's part. Why, of all beings, should we be created in God's image? Why are other animals excluded from Heaven or Hell? Why did it take God five days to create Earth and only one to make the rest of the universe? etc.

Having said that, I won't exclude the possibility of "greater beings" or entities. We still know very little about the origins of the universe, its final fate and purpose or lack thereof, the origins of life on Earth, and the possible inhabitants of other planets and solar systems. Furthermore, if the second law of thermodynamics is cosmologically relevant, why have structures as complex as the human brain been able to develop in apparent violation of that principle?



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Re: Why do you believe in god? - July 16th 2013, 10:32 PM

Does it matter why someone believes in god? If they are not an extremist and believing in a god gives them happiness, is it wrong to let them have that belief?
   
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Re: Why do you believe in god? - July 18th 2013, 06:00 AM

I believe in God because I just do. Honestly, I don't know how to explain my faith other than to say that I just have a feeling that there is someone, a higher power, up there looking after us. I just believe because my heart tells me too.

This is probably not the answer you are looking for and I am sure there are other posters who can give you better reasons.


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Re: Why do you believe in god? - July 22nd 2013, 04:23 AM

I believe because I truly feel there is a higher power. But I think an even bigger reason I believe is because of the crazy things that have happened.
I, and my family, have had unexplainable things happen to us. In fact, I'd love to see someone try to explain how these things happened without making references to God. Just as an example of one story...
My family and I were once driving on the freeway, and I started shivering uncontrollably. No one noticed. I got really cold, and my eyes shut. A golden cross flashed into my eyes and I saw these gruesome images of cars smashing together. One car had flipped and landed upside down on top of the other car. Then I suddenly just snapped out of this, like nothing happened. I looked around and still no one noticed.
A minute later we drove past a car accident...with one car upside down on top of the other car. Same colors and everything.

To this day, I have no idea what that meant, but I have no idea how I could have known of the crash and know the exact details without God sending those images to me. I just don't know why He wwould want me to know that happened.


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Re: Why do you believe in god? - July 23rd 2013, 03:15 AM

I believe because I want to.


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Re: Why do you believe in god? - July 23rd 2013, 06:41 AM

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Originally Posted by Jess~ View Post
I believe because I truly feel there is a higher power. But I think an even bigger reason I believe is because of the crazy things that have happened.
I, and my family, have had unexplainable things happen to us. In fact, I'd love to see someone try to explain how these things happened without making references to God. Just as an example of one story...
My family and I were once driving on the freeway, and I started shivering uncontrollably. No one noticed. I got really cold, and my eyes shut. A golden cross flashed into my eyes and I saw these gruesome images of cars smashing together. One car had flipped and landed upside down on top of the other car. Then I suddenly just snapped out of this, like nothing happened. I looked around and still no one noticed.
A minute later we drove past a car accident...with one car upside down on top of the other car. Same colors and everything.

To this day, I have no idea what that meant, but I have no idea how I could have known of the crash and know the exact details without God sending those images to me. I just don't know why He wwould want me to know that happened.
Yes, instead of God saving the millions of people being persecuted for their religious beliefs, saving starving children, or freeing people in concentration camps he is sending you visions of cars crashing.
   
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Re: Why do you believe in god? - July 30th 2013, 01:10 AM

Why wouldn't I?
   
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Re: Why do you believe in god? - July 30th 2013, 01:34 AM

Is it bad that I don't know what to believe anymore because I'm afraid of my dad and family because they don't believe in God and make fun of me for it?

Jay.


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Re: Why do you believe in god? - July 30th 2013, 03:17 AM

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Originally Posted by Sarasa View Post
Does it matter why someone believes in god? If they are not an extremist and believing in a god gives them happiness, is it wrong to let them have that belief?
I think he wants to have an intellectual discussion, not necessarily wanting to "unconvert" anybody, although I can tell that's how everybody is taking it since the answers are walls up and defensive rather than just giving reasons.


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Re: Why do you believe in god? - July 30th 2013, 03:22 AM

I believe in a god, but I am not a hundred percent sure of what it is I believe. Some athiests say it all started with the big bang, but in the back of my head i'm saying what caused that big bang. So in my mind, god is whatever started everything in motion
   
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Re: Why do you believe in god? - July 30th 2013, 10:51 PM

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Originally Posted by Up In The Clouds View Post
Yes, instead of God saving the millions of people being persecuted for their religious beliefs, saving starving children, or freeing people in concentration camps he is sending you visions of cars crashing.
Ahem?
I wasn't going to waste my time replying, but I just hate when people say 'if God is so powerful why can't he stop all the sickness n starvation n sadness lulz'. Not exactly your words, but I just wanted to clear up. God doesn't fix that because he wants us to see and have to live with sin. He wants us to know its wrong, repent, and strive and look forward to the day there will be none.
I know you're givin' me poo face right now (inside joke alright) but honestly I don't care what you believe.
I just hate when people bitch for no apparent reason.


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Re: Why do you believe in god? - July 31st 2013, 03:12 AM

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Originally Posted by Jess~ View Post
Ahem?
I wasn't going to waste my time replying, but I just hate when people say 'if God is so powerful why can't he stop all the sickness n starvation n sadness lulz'. Not exactly your words, but I just wanted to clear up. God doesn't fix that because he wants us to see and have to live with sin. He wants us to know its wrong, repent, and strive and look forward to the day there will be none.
I know you're givin' me poo face right now (inside joke alright) but honestly I don't care what you believe.
I just hate when people bitch for no apparent reason.
Still, it's silly to believe God is taking the time to send you visions personally. I really think you should take the time to learn about your religion and other religions so you have some reason to believe other than dreams.
   
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Re: Why do you believe in god? - July 31st 2013, 07:50 AM

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Originally Posted by Jess~ View Post
I believe because I truly feel there is a higher power. But I think an even bigger reason I believe is because of the crazy things that have happened.
I, and my family, have had unexplainable things happen to us. In fact, I'd love to see someone try to explain how these things happened without making references to God. Just as an example of one story...
My family and I were once driving on the freeway, and I started shivering uncontrollably. No one noticed. I got really cold, and my eyes shut. A golden cross flashed into my eyes and I saw these gruesome images of cars smashing together. One car had flipped and landed upside down on top of the other car. Then I suddenly just snapped out of this, like nothing happened. I looked around and still no one noticed.
A minute later we drove past a car accident...with one car upside down on top of the other car. Same colors and everything.

To this day, I have no idea what that meant, but I have no idea how I could have known of the crash and know the exact details without God sending those images to me. I just don't know why He wwould want me to know that happened.
Which god caused this vision? How do you know it was this god and not another? How do you know it wasn't something else? You're argument, or reason, is actually fallacious. I will go into that (if you want), but I want to see your answer to my questions, first.

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I believe in a god, but I am not a hundred percent sure of what it is I believe. Some athiests say it all started with the big bang, but in the back of my head i'm saying what caused that big bang. So in my mind, god is whatever started everything in motion
This actually isn't true. It didn't ALL start with the big bang. OUR Universe started with a big bang. Prior to that there is string theory, and various other theories to explain that. Regardless, however you want to look at it, something caused something. If your logic is true, then god must have had a start, because I'm saying what caused god? Did god just always exist? Then why can't various scientific theories? In fact, isn't it less logical to conclude that somewhere exists a omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent god (SOMEWHERE, we've never seen it, or have any evidence of it whatsoever, and can't even begin to replicate its existence) created everything in its infinite wisdom? Rather than just saying that by some slim chance things (that we can observe, have seen, have evidence of, and can replicate the creation of the universe from nothing at a micro-level) just existed that caused our existence? God has to have an explanation.

Sorry if my thoughts are scattered. It's late.


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July 31st 2013, 07:54 AM

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Originally Posted by Up In The Clouds View Post
Still, it's silly to believe God is taking the time to send you visions personally. I really think you should take the time to learn about your religion and other religions so you have some reason to believe other than dreams.
I do know about other religions, and I study my own daily. Dreams aren't the only reason I believe, sorry if it sounded that way. I was just listing one. I have a thousand other reasons, and a thousand other stories as to why I believe as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
Which god caused this vision? How do you know it was this god and not another? How do you know it wasn't something else? You're argument, or reason, is actually fallacious. I will go into that (if you want), but I want to see your answer to my questions, first.
My God. The one true God. Jesus Christ.
I know it is my God, because I believe in no other gods. Only Him. Don't really see the point of those questions but whatever. Please do not go into some big argument about why I'm such a dumbf*** for being a Christian. I've already been there, been called names for it, I will no longer reply to any (failed) attempts to prove my religion wrong. People believe what they want. Just like people only hear what they want to hear. Can't we just agree to disagree? I'm a little freaking girl, I don't want to discuss this.
By the way...what does fallacious mean...?


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Re: Why do you believe in god? - July 31st 2013, 11:45 AM

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Originally Posted by Jess~ View Post
My God. The one true God. Jesus Christ.
I know it is my God, because I believe in no other gods. Only Him. Don't really see the point of those questions but whatever. Please do not go into some big argument about why I'm such a dumbf*** for being a Christian. I've already been there, been called names for it, I will no longer reply to any (failed) attempts to prove my religion wrong. People believe what they want. Just like people only hear what they want to hear. Can't we just agree to disagree? I'm a little freaking girl, I don't want to discuss this.
By the way...what does fallacious mean...?
I'll begin by commenting that the a foundational premise of this thread was the expectation of replies and debate. If you don't want to engage in such discourse, you are free to leave. We do not compel you to reply if such an action is against your wishes.

Secondly, I hardly see any qualifying statements as to why your particular god is the "one true" deity. You've simply asserted it and done nothing to elaborate the reasoning as to why such a declaration is an apt one. What reason does one have to believe in Jesus or Yaweh above Anubis or Odin?

I do sympathise with your sense of persecution, but we're not doing that. No one's beliefs are above question and this is an arena in which criticism is presented with the intention of promoting discussion, not vitriol.


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Re: Why do you believe in god? - July 31st 2013, 01:29 PM

I believe in satanism so my god like figure is satan and i believe in him because he is the god of pain and suffering and is very believable since everyone suffers at some stage

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Re: Why do you believe in god? - July 31st 2013, 02:05 PM

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I believe in satanism so my god like figure is satan and i believe in him because he is the god of pain and suffering and is very believable since everyone suffers at some stage
And why do you believe this suffering need to ascribed to a "Satan" figure?


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July 31st 2013, 04:28 PM

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Originally Posted by Jess~ View Post
My God. The one true God. Jesus Christ.
I know it is my God, because I believe in no other gods. Only Him. Don't really see the point of those questions but whatever. Please do not go into some big argument about why I'm such a dumbf*** for being a Christian. I've already been there, been called names for it, I will no longer reply to any (failed) attempts to prove my religion wrong. People believe what they want. Just like people only hear what they want to hear. Can't we just agree to disagree? I'm a little freaking girl, I don't want to discuss this.
By the way...what does fallacious mean...?
Jessica,

First of all, lets clarify something. I am not calling you a dumbf***. No one else here is, either. In fact, I hate when anyone, atheists included, come off in an arrogant manner. I am not here to ridicule people. I am here to debate. That was the purpose of this thread. In fact, look at my previous posts. Even though I am an atheist, I have helped people with questions of various religions, but mostly Christians (because I used to be one). So, I am sorry if I came off as arrogant. It wasn't my intent to ridicule you, and I'm sorry that has been your experience. You can even look at my postings in the past when I was a Christian, and see how I was ridiculed. I try to be above that. I'm only here to educate myself and others and to find truth. I use debates to challenge my own conclusions, and other's beliefs.

Second, your age doesn't matter. Christ said that the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to infants. If anyone, in Christianity, knows anything about Heaven, it would be younger people. And just because someone is younger, doesn't mean they are ignorant. You can't compare age and intelligence. This thread's purpose is to debate. If you don't want to, don't respond, and feel free to leave. I stated that in the OP.

Now onto your questions:

The purpose to those questions served this: you have no real evidence to conclude your visions were from YOUR god. IF, pretend for me, you were Muslim, you would say, "My god, Allah gave me those visions." Therefore, your reason for believing those visions were from god were only based on faith. No evidence. If you said, "My god, Jesus gave me those visions, and I saw him, and he told me he was the Christ, the one from the bible I read." You would have MORE evidence, but still, this alone would not be sufficient. Why? Because evidence needs to be able to be repeated. That is, I should be able to do the same thing, with the same results, or the evidence presented is dismissed.

However, my point was to show you that you have no reason to believe those were from god. All you had were visions. They could've been from Satan for all you know. And I'm not ridiculing you, I'm just stating this as fact. You don't know what caused those visions, if you had them. Just because you understood my intent, doesn't mean my attempts failed, in fact, based on your response I think they were successful.

People don't hear and believe what they want. If this were true in the science community, we would have no technology or advancement in society. We would have no understanding of how the Universe, or even the Earth, operates.

Fallacious means a fallacy: A failure in reasoning that renders an argument invalid.

If I don't hear back from you, good luck.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Validity View Post
Is it bad that I don't know what to believe anymore because I'm afraid of my dad and family because they don't believe in God and make fun of me for it?

Jay.
Jay,

Don't let anyone intimidate you out of a belief. Believe what you believe, but if something shows you that the belief is invalid, it should be rejected.


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Re: Why do you believe in god? - July 31st 2013, 06:22 PM

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Originally Posted by Coexist. View Post


I think he wants to have an intellectual discussion, not necessarily wanting to "unconvert" anybody, although I can tell that's how everybody is taking it since the answers are walls up and defensive rather than just giving reasons.
I was asking a question. When it comes to religion, people aren't logical.

I was asking a serious question though. If people are not scamming each other for money or killing each other, does it matter?

Quote:
I wasn't going to waste my time replying, but I just hate when people say 'if God is so powerful why can't he stop all the sickness n starvation n sadness lulz'. Not exactly your words, but I just wanted to clear up. God doesn't fix that because he wants us to see and have to live with sin. He wants us to know its wrong, repent, and strive and look forward to the day there will be none.
I know you're givin' me poo face right now (inside joke alright) but honestly I don't care what you believe.
I just hate when people bitch for no apparent reason.
So the people starving deserve it or something? Also, how do you know it wasn't Satan or some sort of demon giving you the vision?
   
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Re: Why do you believe in god? - July 31st 2013, 11:16 PM

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Originally Posted by Of Mike and Men View Post
Jessica,

First of all, lets clarify something. I am not calling you a dumbf***. No one else here is, either. In fact, I hate when anyone, atheists included, come off in an arrogant manner. I am not here to ridicule people. I am here to debate. That was the purpose of this thread. In fact, look at my previous posts. Even though I am an atheist, I have helped people with questions of various religions, but mostly Christians (because I used to be one). So, I am sorry if I came off as arrogant. It wasn't my intent to ridicule you, and I'm sorry that has been your experience. You can even look at my postings in the past when I was a Christian, and see how I was ridiculed. I try to be above that. I'm only here to educate myself and others and to find truth. I use debates to challenge my own conclusions, and other's beliefs.

Second, your age doesn't matter. Christ said that the Kingdom of Heaven belongs to infants. If anyone, in Christianity, knows anything about Heaven, it would be younger people. And just because someone is younger, doesn't mean they are ignorant. You can't compare age and intelligence. This thread's purpose is to debate. If you don't want to, don't respond, and feel free to leave. I stated that in the OP.

Now onto your questions:

The purpose to those questions served this: you have no real evidence to conclude your visions were from YOUR god. IF, pretend for me, you were Muslim, you would say, "My god, Allah gave me those visions." Therefore, your reason for believing those visions were from god were only based on faith. No evidence. If you said, "My god, Jesus gave me those visions, and I saw him, and he told me he was the Christ, the one from the bible I read." You would have MORE evidence, but still, this alone would not be sufficient. Why? Because evidence needs to be able to be repeated. That is, I should be able to do the same thing, with the same results, or the evidence presented is dismissed.

However, my point was to show you that you have no reason to believe those were from god. All you had were visions. They could've been from Satan for all you know. And I'm not ridiculing you, I'm just stating this as fact. You don't know what caused those visions, if you had them. Just because you understood my intent, doesn't mean my attempts failed, in fact, based on your response I think they were successful.

People don't hear and believe what they want. If this were true in the science community, we would have no technology or advancement in society. We would have no understanding of how the Universe, or even the Earth, operates.

Fallacious means a fallacy: A failure in reasoning that renders an argument invalid.

If I don't hear back from you, good luck.
I'm sorry. It's just the only atheists I know, three of them, once ganged up on me, still make fun of me behind my back,and called me so many bad names.
Now...I don't know where to start. Well, i do have to agree with you there, Satan could have sent me it. Why would he send me something that only strengthens my faith?
Also, if you're asking for visions with some form of proof, I once had a dream. Go ahead roll your eyes.
But I had this dream when I was slipping away from God, being a terrible person. I had no thrive to follow His ways. Until I dreamt the scariest, but yet best, dream I've ever had. I saw the rapture, saw weird, crazy symbolic things. It is here that I'll tell you I had never read Revelations, in which the Bible says what will happen. In my dream i saw the scariest of images...but when I walked through the gates of Heaven I felt the strangest feeling eever, a feeling I've never had. I felt content, peaceful. and when I woke up, I cried immediately, wanting to go back. Here's the strange part.
I ran to get my Bible, blew the dust off, turned to revelations...and I just atarted crying again. Everything from my dream was there. The beasts exactly as described, the events took place exactly in order, Jesus arrived on a white horse, the Angel of death in a black, Heaven was lined with golden bricks, I saw people with marks on their forehead and hand.
This was all real, I kid you not. But of course there's a logical explanation through science for this, right? I mean I probably just thought of every single detail in a book I've never read, who DOESN'T dream of something they've never learned about?
Smh.
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Arrow Re: Why do you believe in god? - August 1st 2013, 03:53 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess~ View Post
I'm sorry. It's just the only atheists I know, three of them, once ganged up on me, still make fun of me behind my back,and called me so many bad names.
Now...I don't know where to start. Well, i do have to agree with you there, Satan could have sent me it. Why would he send me something that only strengthens my faith?
Also, if you're asking for visions with some form of proof, I once had a dream. Go ahead roll your eyes.
But I had this dream when I was slipping away from God, being a terrible person. I had no thrive to follow His ways. Until I dreamt the scariest, but yet best, dream I've ever had. I saw the rapture, saw weird, crazy symbolic things. It is here that I'll tell you I had never read Revelations, in which the Bible says what will happen. In my dream i saw the scariest of images...but when I walked through the gates of Heaven I felt the strangest feeling eever, a feeling I've never had. I felt content, peaceful. and when I woke up, I cried immediately, wanting to go back. Here's the strange part.
I ran to get my Bible, blew the dust off, turned to revelations...and I just atarted crying again. Everything from my dream was there. The beasts exactly as described, the events took place exactly in order, Jesus arrived on a white horse, the Angel of death in a black, Heaven was lined with golden bricks, I saw people with marks on their forehead and hand.
This was all real, I kid you not. But of course there's a logical explanation through science for this, right? I mean I probably just thought of every single detail in a book I've never read, who DOESN'T dream of something they've never learned about?
Smh.
Jesus loves you.
You should start your own cult.

What about other people in history who have claimed to receive dreams, messages, visions, or revelations from God? Ellen White, Joseph Smith, Emmanuel Swedenborg, Muhammed and Baha'u'llah all recieved messages, visions, or dreams from God. The messages they recieved don't agree with your form of Christianity.

By the way, it's Revelation with no "s".
   
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Re: Why do you believe in god? - August 1st 2013, 04:38 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Up In The Clouds View Post
You should start your own cult.

What about other people in history who have claimed to receive dreams, messages, visions, or revelations from God? Ellen White, Joseph Smith, Emmanuel Swedenborg, Muhammed and Baha'u'llah all recieved messages, visions, or dreams from God. The messages they recieved don't agree with your form of Christianity.

By the way, it's Revelation with no "s".

Oh, did they get a dream about something they never even read about too? Or was my dream just a silly coincidence...?
Here I'll give ya three little facts.
1. I am not starting my own cult.
2. Didn't ask for the grammar police.
3. Jesus loves you, hun.


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Re: Why do you believe in god? - August 1st 2013, 05:11 AM

I believe in god merely for the fact of believing in something and having a family in faith who shares the same feelings. I guess I'm like the rest who can't describe the feeling. I feel the way I most connect my faith is from Christian music. It gives me a positive thing in my life and I know you might not believe in it but it makes my life better. If I didn't believe in something like that then I think I would have given up by now. The music and words can be a positive reminder to myself and to give to others. I am sorry I have no philosophy and I am no theologian but its a weird feeling I get about it all.


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Re: Why do you believe in god? - August 1st 2013, 03:31 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jess~ View Post
Oh, did they get a dream about something they never even read about too? Or was my dream just a silly coincidence...?
Here I'll give ya three little facts.
1. I am not starting my own cult.
2. Didn't ask for the grammar police.
3. Jesus loves you, hun.
Actually you're not the only person to of claimed dreams like this. Precognition has been claimed by many people, and with accuracy. While I doubt the validity of your dreams (and even if they did happen it still isn't evidence of god), you would also have to take into account the prophets of ther religions who have had precognition. As with fortune tellers and various others who have had precognitive experiences.

The problem is, even if I were to accept that you had precognition, it still wouldn't point me to god. Why? Because a ton of people have precognition and they are all from various faiths. Not only that, in order to be evidence, the claim must be able to be repeated with the same results. I.E. if I go to bed, I should have the same dreams, and so should anyone else who wants them for it to be considered evidence.

Then, once we all have the same dreams, this still doesn't prove the existence of god. It's solely something we don't understand, yet. Just because we don't know something, doesn't mean god exists. Before we understood how gravity worked, we would just say, "God holds us here." However, now we understand how gravity operates and it removes the necessity of god. Precognition can be explained, even if there is no explanation currently. How am I so sure? Because everything has a natural explanation.

When I was young, I used to wonder how all the roads and pavement were set. I concluded a super hero must have laid down the asphalt because how else would ENDLESS roads been laid? But, as I grew in knowledge I realized this wasn't the case. Concluded something as being god-caused just because you can't think of another reason is circular reasoning.


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Re: Why do you believe in god? - August 1st 2013, 05:33 PM

I believe because I've always had this feeling there is someone with me, even in times when I've felt really alone and disconnected from everyone around me, God is a solid foundation in my life, He will not leave me and He has been with me through some really difficult times.
I have a right to believe what I believe and I can see the hope, wholeness and comfort that having a relationship with God brings. He fills an emptiness in me that no other person or thing can fill. He is all understanding and all knowing.
When I make mistakes, when I do things I regret, I know he forgives even if those in my life will not forgive, I know he accepts everyone no matter what their past experiences or what they have done.


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Re: Why do you believe in god? - August 1st 2013, 06:55 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kakorrhaphiophobia View Post
I believe because I've always had this feeling there is someone with me,
How do you know it is god, and which god?


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Re: Why do you believe in god? - August 2nd 2013, 01:12 AM

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Originally Posted by Jess~ View Post
I believe because I truly feel there is a higher power. But I think an even bigger reason I believe is because of the crazy things that have happened.
I, and my family, have had unexplainable things happen to us. In fact, I'd love to see someone try to explain how these things happened without making references to God. Just as an example of one story...
My family and I were once driving on the freeway, and I started shivering uncontrollably. No one noticed. I got really cold, and my eyes shut. A golden cross flashed into my eyes and I saw these gruesome images of cars smashing together. One car had flipped and landed upside down on top of the other car. Then I suddenly just snapped out of this, like nothing happened. I looked around and still no one noticed.
A minute later we drove past a car accident...with one car upside down on top of the other car. Same colors and everything.

To this day, I have no idea what that meant, but I have no idea how I could have known of the crash and know the exact details without God sending those images to me. I just don't know why He wwould want me to know that happened.

Well, you aren't the only one. See, this had happen to me as well and...
Well, you say it's 'God' and I can respect that but I say it's isn't God... I like to believe there's a scientific explanation to this. Still, Science is still theory with only evidence to support it but not confirm it.
   
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Re: Why do you believe in god? - August 2nd 2013, 01:35 AM

MFW I read this thread title




Seriously though... last time I was here Michael I remember you used to be a fairly devout Christian! I also remember that you had a quite strong biblical understanding and were one of the only people who could offer good debate from a Christian standpoint here. Big changes eh?

I can't really see this thread ending nicely. Christians will come here to post what they believe, and then us atheists have a nice little thread where we can find Christians and tear into them.

Also, it's a really bad idea to start getting condescending with Michael in regards to Christian belief. I'm not familiar with some of the newer users I've seen in this thread, but I remember him, and he has a far stronger understanding of the Bible than anyone else I've met in my four years on this forum. He may be an atheist now, but condescension is a really poor idea.

Anyway, in regards to the original title, I find a few of the stories posted here odd.
Quote:
Originally Posted by IneedhelpwithSH View Post
I believe in satanism so my god like figure is satan and i believe in him because he is the god of pain and suffering and is very believable since everyone suffers at some stage
You believe in Satan as your God-like figure as a result of the fact that you have observed suffering in the world.
How does this mean that Satan exists and is responsible for it?
We know that suffering exists, and in 100% of cases we can find the source of it. When a mother grieves for the loss of her son, we know that it is her son's death that is responsible for the suffering brought on her. There are also reasons for her son's death; Where does Satan fit into this?

You're right that someone is responsible for most of the suffering though. We are.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MidnightMay View Post
I believe in god merely for the fact of believing in something and having a family in faith who shares the same feelings. I guess I'm like the rest who can't describe the feeling. I feel the way I most connect my faith is from Christian music. It gives me a positive thing in my life and I know you might not believe in it but it makes my life better. If I didn't believe in something like that then I think I would have given up by now. The music and words can be a positive reminder to myself and to give to others. I am sorry I have no philosophy and I am no theologian but its a weird feeling I get about it all.
I don't have any harsh or condemning words to offer here, and I'm not going to attack you or belittle you. All I want to ask you is do you really believe, or do you tell yourself you believe for the convenience?

I believe, as an atheist, one of the main pitfalls of atheism is that it lacks much of what religion offers. Religion offers clear guidance in life and a sense of community and brother and sisterhood. I can completely understand that you value these things.


But I have to ask you to ask yourself... You were asked to 'justify' (so to speak) your belief in God, and your response could be paraphrased as "because I enjoy the things that the religious community gives me," which is clearly that sense of community and purpose I just mentioned. What you have to ask yourself, then, is do you really believe? Do you genuinely believe in your heart that there is a God and that he loves you, etc. or do you simply enjoy the benefits of the religious community? Because, if I may offer my opinion here, I'm not sure that's any kind of real religious belief. It's kind of superficial.


Anyway, that's it from me.
   
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Re: Why do you believe in god? - August 4th 2013, 04:38 PM

I am asatru, however, I don't necessarily believe in the existence of the gods of asatru, but the teachings and values that the religion upholds. The actual gods I treat as simple figures, a face to match different aspects of life. If I'm praying for courage it feels better and simpler to pray to tyr for courage, than to pray to the general being/energy/force or whatever that is 'asatru' cause that feels far more vague, which to me makes the pray feel weaker


Women are women, regardless of sex,
and men are men, in the same respects.

You can be both, or a mix of the two,
or you can be neither, if that's what suits you.

But people are people, whatever their parts,
because what really matters, is inside of our hearts.

*Some poem I found on the internet*
   
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August 13th 2013, 06:41 PM

Okay
#1 If God exists? Why does all the suffering in the world take place? Why are there molestations, child abuse, racism, yada yada?
Answer: We have to know evil in order to know what good is. If you don't have evil around we lose the meaning of good. And, just to further back this up; God is an authority figure. Think about parenting. You can command your child to love you which is really just controlling them or you can let them be free to make their own choices and though they may be bad ones if they do come back to you, they have chosen to which is real love. He hates to watch this stuff happen, it says in the bible that every time you cry Jesus cries with you. But if we didn't have the ability to choose for ourselves what we desire than everything we do wouldn't be authentic.

#2 Okay....so what experiences let you know there is a God?
Answer: The prayers that I have had continually answered for me. The miracles that have happened to me. The relationships that have changed because of my constant alliance with God. It's also the feeling you get with what you receive from Him that lets you know it's God. Just the same way people talk about there being a ghost in their house or even a demon in their house. How do they know it's a ghost? How do they know it's a demon? It's the feeling they get with it that lets them know it's a demon or a malevolent spirit. (some dark and evil thing) With God, I feel myself grow stronger, smarter, happier, and even valiant. If God wants you to know it's Him, He will make it clear. He was counting the hairs on our head before we were even born. He knows exactly what feeling He can give you to let you know it's Him.

#3 Those who have truly felt and witnessed the presence of God must preach His name.
He's an addiction. We don't just decide to take God in on a whim. And honestly, you're supposed to question His existence before you just invite Him in because that makes your relationship with Him authentic and strong. But I don't talk to my friends about God just to piss them off or lie to their faces. I talk to them about Him because I wish they could receive His blessings and power and glory because it penetrates me every time He visits me and I have to let others know how beautiful He is.

Jess- I think you got that feeling that let you know THIS IS GOD with that dream. And I also think you can understand that idea that "when you truly have felt God you must preach His name" it really does penetrate you. I'm so glad you found Him.
Bless this conversation too. I love doing this.
Also, God created Himself. Where does power come from? It comes from itself.
And, there is truth in every religion. I am Christian. I'm an Episcopalian but I study with Catholics and Mormons and pagans all the time because its all the same God. The Muslims believe in Allah which means God. Was there a man named Muhammad that walked this Earth? Yes. There was. Was there a man named Joseph Smith that walked this Earth? Yes. Just pick and choose because God didn't want us to have one way to find Him. He had someone write the Torah, the Koran, the Bible, the Book of Mormon. We each have special gifts that might be better served in a specific faith.
And, there has to be a balance on this Earth. He can see a Muslim woman being discriminated against in her home and country because of the fact that she is a woman. She equates God with slavery because of the upbringing in which God has been brought to her so an aetheist comes along and tell her about this idea that He doesn't exist. He does that so she won't have to think about herself as crazy for the rest of her life for wanting equality.
This often collides with sovereign grace which happens a lot.
There are three things you can get with God: a relationship with Him, a miracle, and sovereign grace.

Sovereign grace is when too many options have been taken from you and He has to come in and bless you so you can be okay. For example, the child that is born gay and wants to kill themselves because they grow up in a Catholic church or any devout sect of Christianity that believes gays go to hell or are somehow sinful. This child prays not that they die but that they be deleted in such a way that they never existed. God comes in and sends an aetheist to tell this child that God doesn't exist... it's an opening for this child to finally be free of this shame and humiliation and inner turmoil that should never be fueling him. God knows all of us. He has a purpose for all of us.
I was abused as a child. When I was five my mother locked me in my room and told me to think about what I had done even though I hadn't done anything. I was starving and I begged her to let me out and she wouldn't. I kept saying sorry over and over again but she kept telling me I had to pay the price for what I had done. I started to tell myself I was a horrible child and I remember crying as if I wanted to die. I blacked out and repressed most of what happened. That night I saw Jesus. He came next to me at my bed and talked to me for hours. He asked me what I wanted. I said I wanted my mother to be happy if she was capable of that. I wanted my parents to fall in love again if that was possible and I wanted to go through a period of time in which I hated God but then finally developed a relationship with Him. Jesus said okay. He said Hang tight. I will come back to you. I am now 20. When I was 18 I made a relationship with God. Within the first month of having accepted Christ into my life, I started to get these repressed memories back. My mother than suffered a near death experience and finally changed. She can experience true happiness now. And now my parents are dating. Last year I got the memories of all these prayers that I made when I was little. There is no greater love affair than the one you have with God.
Please feel free to private chat with me if you have more questions about God. Also, God gives us truth. He doesn't lie. Satan is the liar. God creates. And Satan destroys. Many people have a hard time accepting God because of the relationship they have with their parents. He is an authority figure and if they associate authority with wrath than they will innately be reluctant to look for God.
I had to forgive my mother at some point though for what she had done to me. It freed me from the destructive and abusive relationship we had.
And there is a hell. There is a Satan. There is even a hell on Earth and you see that in the relationships people have with each other or choices they make. There is also a heaven on Earth. You see that with the people who have friendships that last until death and they feel like that friend is their other half.

This song is beautiful. You should listen to it if you can.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ks3R2BwyO0

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Re: Why do you believe in god? - August 15th 2013, 09:35 AM

I don't care that I'm a bit late to this . . . ooops

I believe in God because, the way I see it, I cannot believe in anything else. I know that God is real, and I've experienced Him in ways I can hardly explain. Words don't do Him justice.

I've had visions and dreams that I know have come from God. I've passed out in the presence of God several times (and no, it was not because of some under-lying medical thing or whatever). I've seen people be healed. I've seen Him answer prayers that could not have been coincidence. I just can't doubt that He's real. I've been in a room filled with 700 teens and half of them were passed out on the ground because of God's presence (scary if you're not used to it). In my mind there is no doubt.

I don't have all the answers, there are some things that I will only know the answer to once I get to Heaven and can ask my Jesus. I do know that God is not the cause of pain and suffering and all that which goes on in the world, but I do know He allows it in order to bring us closer to Him. I do know that He is love, and I want to be closer to Love

   
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Re: Why do you believe in god? - August 15th 2013, 11:35 PM

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Originally Posted by MovedByMercy View Post
I just can't doubt that He's real. I've been in a room filled with 700 teens and half of them were passed out on the ground because of God's presence (scary if you're not used to it).
That's the power of suggestion or group thought. Everyone else does it, so you do too. Or someone convinces you that you're being moved by the spirit, so you fall on your butt.

It's a sham. It's not any evidence of God.
   
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Re: Why do you believe in god? - August 16th 2013, 01:28 AM

God is real, Im suppose to be dead right know but he kept me here watch what you say
   
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Re: Why do you believe in god? - August 16th 2013, 02:09 AM

i Personally hate christians who say "God is real"

because one we don't know that, its a BELIEF so please fix your wording when talking. don't act like you Know....its a belief, not a fact.

so before coming on here to debating, watch your wording.
please say "I don't believe in god" or "i do believe in god" and state your reason. Clear as that.

we cannot prove or disprove god. Okay?
Atheist rant over. have a nice day
   
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Re: Why do you believe in god? - August 16th 2013, 03:30 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by cherrypie36 View Post
i Personally hate christians who say "God is real"

because one we don't know that, its a BELIEF so please fix your wording when talking. don't act like you Know....its a belief, not a fact.

so before coming on here to debating, watch your wording.
please say "I don't believe in god" or "i do believe in god" and state your reason. Clear as that.

we cannot prove or disprove god. Okay?
Atheist rant over. have a nice day
You are completely entitled to your feelings and beliefs, just like everyone else on this forum. But you can’t mandate that someone state their beliefs in a particular manner because you feel it’s more proper. In this forum people are allowed to say that there is or is not a God. That is their personal feelings on the matter. As long as the person is not trying to force their religion onto others, they are allowed to make those statements. If you disagree with what they are saying, that is completely OK and you have the ability to respond back with an intelligently thought out response. But attacking the way someone states something, as oppose to debating what is being said, is not OK.

This is a reminder for everyone to please be courteous to other users even if you disagree.




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August 16th 2013, 07:08 AM

Well I'm not trying to be rude but your paragraph kind contradicted itself . If you're going to ask someone why they believe in something faith -based its not gonna sound exactly logical In some cases.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Take Heart View Post
Well, you aren't the only one. See, this had happen to me as well and...
Well, you say it's 'God' and I can respect that but I say it's isn't God... I like to believe there's a scientific explanation to this. Still, Science is still theory with only evidence to support it but not confirm it.
Not trying to be rude again but how is there going to be a scientific explanation for like a photographic mind picture. Basically what I'm saying is like trying to explain the science behind a person being able to see the future like that's so raven or having the gift of like telekinesis.

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Re: Why do you believe in god? - August 16th 2013, 08:15 AM

God actually did save me from alot of things, I was suppose to be dead at 9 years old, So it was Only by the Grace of God that Im alive nothing else
   
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Re: Why do you believe in god? - August 16th 2013, 11:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Up In The Clouds View Post
That's the power of suggestion or group thought. Everyone else does it, so you do too. Or someone convinces you that you're being moved by the spirit, so you fall on your butt.

It's a sham. It's not any evidence of God.
This made me laugh. It's not something you just 'do'. It's something that happens - it's not regular falling over. It's like full out tipping while staying straight like a board. And you don't even realise it's happening until it's happened. Don't tell me that that's normal or that's possible to 'just do'. Most people I know would have problems just leaning over backwards, completely straight, knowing that nothing was there.

How do you know that what you believe isn't just a sham?
   
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August 16th 2013, 02:53 PM

I really just want to answer questions that people have about why people decide to take God in or why I believe in God.

And I further wanted to elaborate my idea on "What lets you know it's God?"
It's the feeling that you get that comes with the situation or scenario in which you are in that lets you know it's God. For example, there are people who lose a loved one and are horribly upset about it. Those people that lose that person however, have somehow felt that person visit them and they feel relieved. There are many accounts of this where a woman loses her brother and then a week later she feels her brother while she's at work. If you were to argue with her "well how did you know it was your brother?" She would say "it was the feeling that I got with it that let me know it was him" and there really wouldn't be any way to get her to change her idea on that.

Also, I'm really hoping that my first point makes sense.

#1 Why does God let bad things happen?
If we were chained to a strict line of what we were allowed to do and what we were not allowed to do. We would all be zombies. There wouldn't be any choices. If everyone must always do the right thing than nobody understands the worth of what they have and if that means you must love the wife you marry or you must love your parents than quite honestly that's not love. You haven't chosen it. Love is a choice. Being deprived of our ability to choose makes it so that even though there are temptations out there this man loves his wife because at the end of the day he CHOOSES to come home to her. Knowing that someone CHOOSES you, that is real. That is authentic. That enables you to grow and inspire others. You actually kill a huge part of the piece that likes someone when this person tells you that they NEED you.
Without choices, you don't have reality. So even though your husband may cheat on you, at least you are aware of the truth.

And while there may be no proof that there is a God. We are all somehow all influenced by the power of suggestion with all our experiences of God.

We have yet to come up with any proof that there isn't a God.
Like literally over the 2000 years since Jesus came no one has been able to DISPROVE God. Actually, no over the entire course of humanity not one human being has been able to disprove Him.

Last edited by Lizzie; August 16th 2013 at 04:10 PM. Reason: Merge consecutive posts
   
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