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Religion and Spirituality, Science and Philosophy Use this forum to discuss what you believe in. This is a place where everyone may share their views freely.

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Being comfortable with the Unknown - February 21st 2015, 07:58 PM

I have been struggling with my faith the past year or so, to the point where I have stopped going to my Christian church.

I recently had a lunch meeting with my old pastor in order to air some grievances and possibly get some answers. One of the topics was, of course, about the 6 day Creation versus the 13 billion year creation. Two things he mentioned that really REALLY rubbed me the wrong way.

1) That Everything.. EVERYTHING in the universe points towards God and his love and his ultimate plan. ("Except when it doesn't")

2) There are some mysteries about God and the nature of the universe that we should just be comfortable in not knowing. Accepting that we really do not need to know everything about God in order to BELIEVE in him. That sometimes, we have to accept that we as finite beings will never know and understand everything about an Infinite God, and that is ok. (Slipping on that slope some; if we extend that reasoning to everything, there would be no use for discovery... period. "What would happen if i rub these two sticks together? I don't know, just be comfortable in that.")

So... yeah. Dealing with that and trying to sort out that incongruencies there.


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Re: Being comfortable with the Unknown - February 22nd 2015, 12:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyeto-X View Post
I have been struggling with my faith the past year or so, to the point where I have stopped going to my Christian church.

I recently had a lunch meeting with my old pastor in order to air some grievances and possibly get some answers. One of the topics was, of course, about the 6 day Creation versus the 13 billion year creation. Two things he mentioned that really REALLY rubbed me the wrong way.

1) That Everything.. EVERYTHING in the universe points towards God and his love and his ultimate plan. ("Except when it doesn't")

2) There are some mysteries about God and the nature of the universe that we should just be comfortable in not knowing. Accepting that we really do not need to know everything about God in order to BELIEVE in him. That sometimes, we have to accept that we as finite beings will never know and understand everything about an Infinite God, and that is ok. (Slipping on that slope some; if we extend that reasoning to everything, there would be no use for discovery... period. "What would happen if i rub these two sticks together? I don't know, just be comfortable in that.")

So... yeah. Dealing with that and trying to sort out that incongruencies there.

Hey man,

I hope you're doing alright. Listen, I know where you come from. I used to be a fairly strong Christian, and now I claim to be an agnostic deist (that is, I believe there is something, I just don't know what, and I know I can't prove it -- I just believe because of intuition, probably because of indoctrination. It's just, if I'm honest with myself, I do believe in something). I'll talk with you about some things, and maybe it'll help you in the process.

Approximately 4 years ago I started struggling with a lot of things. My main issue started with the Christian religion, namely the organized part of it. I began realizing that organized religion really knew nothing about their religion. That is, go ask a Lutheran about baptism, then go ask a Baptist, then a Methodist, then a Catholic, and so-on and so-forth, and you'll realize, NONE of them share similar views. Heck, even ask them about Jesus. They all believe different things, all seemingly from the same book, which they all tend to claim that the book itself is crystal clear, when it's not.

Then, if you break down the denominations, ask individuals in the same denomination what they believe, and it all varies. Eventually, what I realized, is that ever person prescribing to religion believes something different and your left with an infinite amount of interpretations of the same book, and I couldn't ever be certain what the bible was saying, because no one ever knew.

When I realized this, I began searching for truth. I began reading philosophy, and started leaning towards atheism, but I found myself trying to convince myself there was no god, when the problem was, I believed in something. I might even believe in the Christian god, just not the way religion seems to portray it. I don't think that they know the truth, any of them.

Anyways, I ended up where I am now because I began realizing that everything religion told me about science was just plain wrong. The majority of the fundamentalists don't have the slightest clue of what "Darwinian" evolution is, yet they write countless books on the issue. They claim our methods of dating, etc. are all wrong, but ALL the methods say the same thing, and can verify the dates of objects that we know for certain their origin. It just seems ludicrous that religion makes an exception when in contradicts a book written 2,000 years ago.

Anyways... as far as your points:

1) Look into the gap theory. Many early theologians, even ones like John Calvin, and famous reformers taught that the Earth wasn't 6,000 years old. Many of them said that if science finds out that the Earth is older that we should accept it. Why? Because in Genesis the Earth was created, but then there was a gap in time from when animals started inhabiting it, etc. You can find a lot on this. My question for you would be, how can you be certain the creation account is literal? People point to Jesus saying that it was literal, in fact, he never does. There are things that Jesus references to back in Genesis. But, that doesn't mean Jesus believed in a literal account of the Genesis creation. Think about it. Jesus spoke in signs and parables, even the disciples said that. How do we know Genesis is literal? It may not be.

2) Ask your Pastor/Priest that if we are given the spirit of god, why are we not made to understand him? (1 Corinthians 2:12, 1 Cor. 3:16, etc.) I've always wondered about that.
   
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Re: Being comfortable with the Unknown - February 22nd 2015, 05:36 AM

Just remember that its not like if you dont believe in Genesis, you wont go to heaven. There are several things in Genesis that make me say, "Are you kidding?" Like the Tower of Babel as the source of all languages? Thats the type of mythology that we would scoff at if it were any other religion.
In my opinion, theres no way we could ever completely understand God, he's probably dimensions away where nothing makes sense at all. But that isnt to say we should stop questioning everything else. We don't have the technology or thinking skills to figure out God, but we should question everything we can just the same.
Hope I didn't repeat what he said with that.


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